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Doctors pushed paralyzed Irish man to refuse ventilator and die
LifeSiteNews ^ | 4/12/11 | Hilary White

Posted on 04/14/2011 12:45:28 PM PDT by wagglebee

Simon Fitzmaurice with his wife and children

DUBLIN, April 12, 2011 (LifeSiteNews.com) – In a powerful op-ed in today’s Irish Times, an Irish man with degenerative motor neurone disease (MND) has revealed how he was heavily pressured by the medical community to refuse the ventilator that is keeping him alive.

After having been admitted to intensive care for pneumonia, a common complication for paralyzed patients, Simon Fitzmaurice began receiving assisted breathing and a feeding tube. Shortly after being admitted, Fitzmaurice said, a doctor came in and told him it was rare and expensive for patients to have a ventilator at home.

According to Fitzmaurice the doctor told him, with his wife and mother present,  “That it is time for me to make the hard choice. He tells me that there have only been two cases of invasive home ventilation, but in both cases the people were extremely wealthy.”

“He looks at me. ‘This is it now for you. It is time for you to make the hard choice, Simon.’ My mother and my wife are now holding each other, sobbing.”

But Fitzmaurice’s instinctive reaction was for life: “While he is looking at me, my life force, my soul, the part of me that feels like every part, is unequivocal. I want to live. It infuses my whole body to such an extent that I feel no fear in the face of this man.”

Two days after this encounter, he wrote, he and his family were informed that the home ventilator he needed was covered by Ireland’s national health insurer, the Health Services Executive (HSE), and that the home care package needed to run the machine could be covered by the HSE and his family.

Fitzmaurice recounts that was later asked by a neurologist why he wanted to live, even though he had a degenerative disease that would eventually kill him. His answer: “Love for my wife. Love for my children. My friends, my family. Love for life in general. My love is undimmed, unbowed, unbroken. I want to live. Is that wrong?”

“Motor neurone disease is a killer. But so is life,” continued Fitzmaurice. “Everybody dies. But just because you die, just because you will die at some point in the future, does that mean you should kill yourself now? For me, they were asking me to take my own life. Or to endorse euthanasia. I refused.”

Experts say that Fitzmaurice’s experience is not uncommon and that incidents like these are becoming a trend in medical practice – a trend that has become nearly universal in developed countries, especially those with nationalized, government funded health care.

“Sadly, his story is all too common,” said Alex Schadenberg, head of Canada’s Euthanasia Prevention Coalition.

Schadenberg said that philosophical trends away from traditional medical ethics, combined with massive tax-funded health care systems, have given rise to a new utilitarian-based ethical paradigm in treatment decision making.

Under this paradigm, called bioethics, Schadenberg said, “value judgments and negative attitudes toward people with degenerative conditions have led to imposing death on people who are vulnerable.”

Hospital bioethics committees now routinely decide to withdraw treatment that could save lives, based on the principle of “patient autonomy” that holds it is in the patient’s “best interests” to be “allowed to die,” often by the withholding of food and water. 

These decisions are increasingly being taken without the consent, and sometimes actively against the will, of the patient and his family. In some countries such as Belgium and the Netherlands, the new ethical system has led to legalized euthanasia and widespread abuse of the legal “safeguards” surrounding it.

Recent studies out of Belgium have shown that 32 percent of all legal euthanasia deaths are committed without request or consent by patients or families and only 47.2 percent of all euthanasia deaths are reported. In the Netherlands, the number is 550 deaths without request or consent each year and at least 20 per cent of all euthanasia deaths unreported.

Schadenberg said, “Everyone needs to be aware, society is already imposing death on vulnerable people and if euthanasia or assisted suicide becomes legal then it will simply be done in a quicker and quiet manner.”

As for Fitzmaurice, he writes: “I do not speak for all people with motor neurone disease. I only speak for myself. Perhaps others would question whether or not to ventilate. But I believe in being given the choice, not encouraged to follow the status quo.”

“I am not a tragedy,” he said. “I neither want nor need pity. I am full of hope. The word hope and MND do not go together in this country. Hope is not about looking for a cure to a disease. Hope is a way of living. We often think we are entitled to a long and fruitful Coca-Cola life. But life is a privilege, not a right. I feel privileged to be alive. That’s hope.”



TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: disabilities; euthanasia; moralabsolutes; prolife
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“Motor neurone disease is a killer. But so is life,” continued Fitzmaurice. “Everybody dies. But just because you die, just because you will die at some point in the future, does that mean you should kill yourself now? For me, they were asking me to take my own life. Or to endorse euthanasia. I refused.”

What an amazing man!

1 posted on 04/14/2011 12:45:31 PM PDT by wagglebee
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To: wagglebee

Right to die = Duty to die


2 posted on 04/14/2011 12:46:12 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: cgk; Coleus; cpforlife.org; narses; Salvation; 8mmMauser
Pro-Life Ping
3 posted on 04/14/2011 12:46:20 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: 185JHP; 230FMJ; AKA Elena; Albion Wilde; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; Amos the Prophet; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]


4 posted on 04/14/2011 12:47:27 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: BykrBayb; floriduh voter; Lesforlife; Sun; EternalVigilance
Ping!
5 posted on 04/14/2011 12:49:57 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Excellent story! He truly is amazing!


6 posted on 04/14/2011 12:51:05 PM PDT by gimme1ibertee ("Criticism......brings attention to an unhealthy state of things"-Winston Churchill)
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To: wagglebee
Let me fall now into the hand of the LORD; for very great are his mercies: but let me not fall into the hand of man. 1 Chronicles 21:13.

May I not fall into the hands of those who have forsaken God in the perverse and wicked age we live in.

7 posted on 04/14/2011 12:51:19 PM PDT by Jim 0216
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To: wagglebee

Similar scenario under Obamacare except you will just get a form letter in the mail with regrets and a disconnected 800 number to call.


8 posted on 04/14/2011 12:51:34 PM PDT by palmer (Cooperating with Obama = helping him extend the depression and implement socialism.)
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To: wagglebee

In this country, motor neuron disease is known as amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS) or Charcot’s disease.


9 posted on 04/14/2011 12:52:45 PM PDT by Taft in '52
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To: wagglebee

In The Netherlands, many older people who are sick avoid the hospital because they know that if they check in, they will never check out.


10 posted on 04/14/2011 12:56:01 PM PDT by Haiku Guy (If you can read this / (To paraphrase on old line) / Thank a TAXPAYER!.)
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To: wagglebee

He’s a beautiful young man with a beautiful family. I know that they want to have him there to love until the very end. Rotten health service!


11 posted on 04/14/2011 1:00:00 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: wagglebee

How many times can my heart be broken. I read and feel like crying. Jesus certainly knew of what he spoke.


12 posted on 04/14/2011 1:01:12 PM PDT by Hans
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To: dfwgator

Right to die = Duty to die


Liberals will take it to “race quota killing = who must we kill today?”

Our left loooooooves killin’ innocent people. We will have death mills under a well funded group of lefties that defines killing yourself and others as glorious freedom.


13 posted on 04/14/2011 1:01:41 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: wagglebee
But Fitzmaurice’s instinctive reaction was for life: “While he is looking at me, my life force, my soul, the part of me that feels like every part, is unequivocal. I want to live. It infuses my whole body to such an extent that I feel no fear in the face of this man.”

“Motor neurone disease is a killer. But so is life,” continued Fitzmaurice. “Everybody dies. But just because you die, just because you will die at some point in the future, does that mean you should kill yourself now? For me, they were asking me to take my own life. Or to endorse euthanasia. I refused.”

How many in similar situations can't refuse? Don't have the strength, or the supportive family? This is a must read article. Note that "bioethics" actually means "let's kill helpless people".

Note to self - must get 1984 and read it.

14 posted on 04/14/2011 1:04:28 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: wagglebee

Anybody that wants a ventilator or other seriously expensive technology to stay viable beyond the obvious expiration date that God has stamped on them should be able to have one at their own expense. Tax payers should not have to pay for it. This is especially true, IMHO, if the root cause of your underlying disease process can be attributed to poor lifestyle choices on your part. Tax payers should not be subsidizing irresponsible lifestyle choices. Furthermore, if Doctors warn you hat if you gte pregnant you will give birth to a child with massive medical complications that will result in large financial obligations and you choose to become pregnant and go forward with the birth, that’s on you, not me.


15 posted on 04/14/2011 1:11:43 PM PDT by RC one (Donald Trump-I'm listening.)
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To: RC one; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; ...
Anybody that wants a ventilator or other seriously expensive technology to stay viable beyond the obvious expiration date that God has stamped on them should be able to have one at their own expense. Tax payers should not have to pay for it.

The people in Ireland already pay for their healthcare through TAXES.

This is especially true, IMHO, if the root cause of your underlying disease process can be attributed to poor lifestyle choices on your part. Tax payers should not be subsidizing irresponsible lifestyle choices.

You should call Zero and suggest this, "lifestyle police" seems to be a natural fit for death panels.

Furthermore, if Doctors warn you hat if you gte pregnant you will give birth to a child with massive medical complications that will result in large financial obligations and you choose to become pregnant and go forward with the birth, that’s on you, not me.

Wow, it's not often that someone who claims to be a conservative embraces every fact of the culture of death.

Were you aware that Free Republic is a PRO-LIFE forum and not some libertarian cesspool?

16 posted on 04/14/2011 1:31:12 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Good for him! His family needs and loves him. What arrogance on the part of his doctors to assume that his life is not worth living!


17 posted on 04/14/2011 1:33:11 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Haiku Guy

That is right. Older people in the Netherlands are treated like horses with broken legs.


18 posted on 04/14/2011 1:33:16 PM PDT by getarope (Paddle faster, I hear banjo music!)
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To: wagglebee

And this government power of life and death is exactly what Obama was proposing yet again yesterday, as he touted his council of health experts that will make those decisions for us. NO WAY, BO. NO WAY.


19 posted on 04/14/2011 1:34:29 PM PDT by kittymyrib
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To: RC one; wagglebee; Jim Robinson
Anybody that wants a ventilator or other seriously expensive technology to stay viable beyond the obvious expiration date that God has stamped on them should be able to have one at their own expense. Tax payers should not have to pay for it. This is especially true, IMHO, if the root cause of your underlying disease process can be attributed to poor lifestyle choices on your part. Tax payers should not be subsidizing irresponsible lifestyle choices. Furthermore, if Doctors warn you hat if you gte pregnant you will give birth to a child with massive medical complications that will result in large financial obligations and you choose to become pregnant and go forward with the birth, that’s on you, not me.

Jim Robinson has suffered some severe health problems lately, God bless him. How is your statement here any different than promoting termination of care for someone who is disabled like Jim Robinson, just based on cost considerations? Who would you appoint to decide who does and does not deserve medical care?

20 posted on 04/14/2011 1:46:17 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: dfwgator

yep

That is exactly where it leads.


21 posted on 04/14/2011 1:58:32 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
The main problem that people so often overlook is that once it's determined that a person can't have something that costs more than "X" dollars, a precedent is set and there is now nothing to prevent the amount of money from being lowered.

Many routine medical procedures (childbirth, appendectomy, bypass, etc.) are fairly expensive procedures, but people live normal lives afterward.

I had a ruptured appendix when I was 15 and an infection set in, the whole ordeal was quite costly. Should my family have been told that either they pay for it or let me die? Would I have been considered "better" than other patients in similar situations because my family could afford it? It's a very slippery slope.

One thing that people need to realize is that nearly all Americans ALREADY PAY FOR THEIR HEALTH CARE, the money that my employer and I pay each month IS ME PAYING FOR IT.

22 posted on 04/14/2011 1:59:17 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

You should see what Romneycare is doing to this state.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/opinion/op_ed/view/2011_0412romneycare_a_big_bust/


23 posted on 04/14/2011 2:07:58 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: wagglebee; BykrBayb
My cat isn't doing well but she's comfortable. I'm giving my cat palliative care instead of putting her down. She wants to be on the back porch on a chair and is still eating with lots of prompting.

Even an animal is hard to put down. I think sometimes pets are put down because their owners can't handle seeing natural death. People need to man up and face the music.

We can't go around killing and Libya is costing us $630 BILLION. Cry me a river the death lover trolls at the cost of caring for the vulnerable.

It's not freaking $630 BILLION.

Barack Obama makes me sick.

24 posted on 04/14/2011 2:11:31 PM PDT by floriduh voter (People who don't pray: start.. People who pray: pray more.)
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To: wagglebee
Once one goes down the road liberalism, all life becomes worth is $1.98.

http://ginkworld.blogspot.com/2007/06/value-of-human-life.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_makeup_of_the_human_body

To a liberal a late term abortion is ethical. To a national socialist exterminating 6.5 millions Jews was providing humanity a service. In this relativistic world with no absolutes, where it's simply a matter of mob rule and hedonism (which once God is removed it ALWAYS ends up being), where utilitarianism rules and where there is no deeper purpose, his life is worthless. Simple-

25 posted on 04/14/2011 2:16:59 PM PDT by Red6
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
...just based on cost considerations

Costs aren't a consideration all of a sudden? Did I miss something? Have we found 1.6 trillion dollars to close our budget gap all of a sudden?

Who would you appoint to decide who does and does not deserve medical care?

who do you propose we raise taxes on to pay for medical care then?

26 posted on 04/14/2011 2:20:10 PM PDT by RC one (Donald Trump-I'm listening.)
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To: RC one

The primary consideration is Christian medical ethics. First, do the right thing. First, do no harm.

Sometimes that which is the most ethical is also the most economical. Sometimes it isn’t.

Its all a matter of where your priorities lie. Would you ration care in order to subsidize welfare checks? Planned Parenthood? A new aircraft carrier or nuclear sub?

What are your first priorities, if you seem so eager to ration care for others?


27 posted on 04/14/2011 2:30:24 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: floriduh voter

I absolutely agree.

My old dog is the equivalent of a 90-year-old. His hips are going but he quite often makes it up the stairs of the shop or our home just to be with us. He eats well and can still chase and kill a raccoon or a possum or bark at the deer eating the windfall apples. He doesn’t hear as well as he once did, but, then, neither do I. He gets NSAIDS, thyroid supplementation, fish oil and glucosimine. We supplement his meals with liver or mackerel a couple times a week. His eyes are bright, his coat is thick and his teeth are still perfect.

Every day we tell him he has done well. We are trying to steel ourselves for the inevitable. But the time is not yet and he will either just let go peacefully or he will tell us it is time. Our vet thinks he is amazing and is also dreading the inevitable end. No way we will hurry it along.

We have had loved ones who went through misery and still were not ready to let go. It is the individual’s choice. In the case presented in the article, the ventilator was covered by the national health system. The doctor was totally out of line and I hope he is well-castigated in the press.

We pay for our dog’s health care and we pay for our own insurance and whatever falls within the deductible. It is not the place for anyone to decide who does or does not live and especially not based on cost.

This is massive hypocrisy, as you point out, in light of the arbitrary *war* in Libya.


28 posted on 04/14/2011 2:36:15 PM PDT by reformedliberal
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To: floriduh voter

Excellent post.


29 posted on 04/14/2011 2:41:44 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Don't try to twist this around Doc.

This isn't about Christian ethics, it's about your tax payer funded medicaid/medicare gravy train. Well, that gravy train is about to come to a stop whether you like it or not thanks to a $1.6 trillion budget deficit.

Would you ration care in order to subsidize welfare checks? Planned Parenthood? A new aircraft carrier or nuclear sub?

I think you're the one arguing for the government controlled/rationed healthcare system i.e. the gravy train here, not me. I just want to see the free market setting healthcare costs, not the government. As such, what you and I fundamentally disagree on is the role of government.

30 posted on 04/14/2011 2:54:11 PM PDT by RC one (Donald Trump-I'm listening.)
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To: wagglebee

What now? Aren’t people dying off fast enough for the deathbots?


31 posted on 04/14/2011 2:58:57 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: RC one; wagglebee
Furthermore, if Doctors warn you hat if you gte pregnant you will give birth to a child with massive medical complications that will result in large financial obligations and you choose to become pregnant and go forward with the birth, that’s on you, not me.

What doctors do you know of with those kind of Godlike powers who are able to make such a prediction of ANY woman? And just how often do you know of that exact situation coming up?

Do you have any idea how many times doctors have told already pregnant women that their babies had some *serious* birth defect and that they should *terminate the pregnancy* only to have the woman delivery a perfectly fine and healthy baby?

I sure hope the *RC* in your name doesn't stand for Roman Catholic because you sure are at odds with that church.

32 posted on 04/14/2011 3:05:43 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: trisham

Someone ought to ask one of these clueless doctors sometime why THEY want to live.

College educated idiots, as a friend’s father used to call people with no common sense.


33 posted on 04/14/2011 3:07:21 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp; wagglebee

Just curious....

How expensive is something like a ventilator anyway?

Is it SERIOUSLY expensive? It sure can’t be too difficult to use if it can be used in a home setting. That kind of precludes SERIOUSLY expensive, or prohibitively expensive.


34 posted on 04/14/2011 3:10:03 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: RC one; wagglebee; DJ MacWoW; trisham
This isn't about Christian ethics, it's about your tax payer funded medicaid/medicare gravy train. Well, that gravy train is about to come to a stop whether you like it or not thanks to a $1.6 trillion budget deficit.

It's about money.

nice.....

Why are you on FR again? Did you miss the part about being pro-life?

35 posted on 04/14/2011 3:14:02 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom
And just how often do you know of that exact situation coming up?

there are numerous examples of identifying genetics abnormalities

I sure hope the *RC* in your name doesn't stand for Roman Catholic because you sure are at odds with that church.

Perhaps the Roman Catholic church would like to start footing the bill for the healthcare costs of people who made poor personal choices? I suppose they're too busy fighting for amnesty for illegal aliens to be bothered with that though. Me, I just want the government and the taxpayer out of the healthcare industry. period.

36 posted on 04/14/2011 3:15:02 PM PDT by RC one (Donald Trump-I'm listening.)
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To: metmom

Once a doctor promotes killing a patient, nothing he says,
including discussion of costs, can be trusted.


37 posted on 04/14/2011 3:26:45 PM PDT by cycjec
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To: metmom

Do you want to live in a capitalist free market society or not? If not, what are you doing here at FR or did you miss the part about being for small government, low taxes, fiscal conservatism, and personal responsibility?


38 posted on 04/14/2011 4:23:25 PM PDT by RC one (Donald Trump-I'm listening.)
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To: cycjec

Exactly.


39 posted on 04/14/2011 4:25:57 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: RC one; wagglebee; trisham; DJ MacWoW
there are numerous examples of identifying genetics abnormalities

Which guarantees nothing.

Perhaps the Roman Catholic church would like to start footing the bill for the healthcare costs of people who made poor personal choices? I suppose they're too busy fighting for amnesty for illegal aliens to be bothered with that though. Me, I just want the government and the taxpayer out of the healthcare industry. period.

If all someone has is government healthcare, as in this case, you'd rather just kill them off?

Every medical procedure was revolutionary and cost prohibitive at some point. As it was practiced and refined and became more widely used, the cost came down.

Following your line of reasoning, anyone without private health insurance should just die, no matter what it is that ails them.

No setting bones, no appendectomies, no insulin, no antibiotics. If they can't or won't pay for it, they die or live with the consequences if the injury doesn't heal right. Right? Is that what you're really advocating?

40 posted on 04/14/2011 4:31:42 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: getarope
That is right. Older people in the Netherlands are treated like horses with broken legs.


41 posted on 04/14/2011 4:48:33 PM PDT by Haiku Guy (If you can read this / (To paraphrase on old line) / Thank a TAXPAYER!.)
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To: metmom
No setting bones, no appendectomies, no insulin, no antibiotics. If they can't or won't pay for it, they die or live with the consequences if the injury doesn't heal right. Right? Is that what you're really advocating?

you are completely full of it. Go back to my OP and you'll see that I said taxpayers should not be footing the bill for medical expenses that arise from personal choices that are known to have serious longterm health consequences.

Every medical procedure was revolutionary and cost prohibitive at some point. As it was practiced and refined and became more widely used, the cost came down.

if that were true, healthcare would be affordable without insurance, private or government, as it once was. Due to the governments intrusion into a once free market, the entire industry has become bloated, overpriced, and inefficient. The taxpayers are being bilked by the government and the healthcare industry and it has led to where we are now, broke and facing a $1.6 trillion budget deficit. Do you not understand the implications of a $1.6 trillion budget deficit? Do you not see the gravity of our fiscal situation?

42 posted on 04/14/2011 5:06:21 PM PDT by RC one (Donald Trump-I'm listening.)
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To: metmom
No setting bones, no appendectomies, no insulin, no antibiotics. If they can't or won't pay for it, they die or live with the consequences if the injury doesn't heal right. Right? Is that what you're really advocating?

Well, if they won't pay for it, they have made their choice, haven't they? People should have that right.

And as for "can't" pay for it, the subsidization of medical care has made it overly expensive. There is a whole lot of effective medical treatment that could be delivered very inexpensively. But those treatments are not often used because there is always somebody else paying the bill.

Human medicine should be a lot more like veterinary medicine. You get your regular check-ups, vaccinations and treatment at a reasonable price. Then if you get something that is going to be really expensive to treat, you have some tough decisions to make about how to spend your own money. Some people may save throughout their lives so they have something set aside for this rainy day, and others may decide to enjoy their money while they are young and healthy, so their options will be more limited. People should be free to make that choice as well.

43 posted on 04/14/2011 5:19:07 PM PDT by Haiku Guy (If you can read this / (To paraphrase on old line) / Thank a TAXPAYER!.)
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To: metmom

Thanks for getting on this thread, metmom. This RC one is some sweetheart, isn’t he? (I’d bet money it’s a he...crude and focused on only one thing: money.)

Sure wouldn’t want him as a neighbor.


44 posted on 04/14/2011 5:33:42 PM PDT by OldPossum
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To: OldPossum

Can you imagine a neighbor who wouldn’t call 911 because the *government* would be footing the bill for it?

And of course, next time people want their house to be saved in the event of a fire, they’d better have paid into a private firefighting company.

Whenever they walk off their property, they’re on public streets. Perhaps we should require them to pay for the repaving of the road in front of their house while we’re at it.

I hope none of these people use bridges or public parks. That would be hypocritical indeed.

And don’t forget all the weather forecasting which uses information provided by the NWS. TO be sincere, people couldn’t depend on weather forecasts using information provided by the government since taxes are paying for that.

I wonder if their kids go to government public schools, or private or homeschool, on principle, of course.


45 posted on 04/14/2011 7:08:00 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

Good comments.

That comment about the private firefighting company ticked off a memory. It actually happened that there was a story on FR about somewhere in the USA no public firefighting organization existed and everyone in the community was supposed to pay a yearly fee specifically for that service. Well, one unfortunate family did not pay for whatever reason and when their house caught on fire the firefighters showed up but refused to put out the fire. Neither would they accept payment on the spot!

I imagine that RC one really got his jollies if he read that story.

I imagine that RC one just rocks back and forth on his porch grousing about those freeloaders out there benefiting from HIS taxes. Must be hell to be him.


46 posted on 04/14/2011 7:57:35 PM PDT by OldPossum
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To: wagglebee

Doctors are supposed to save lives. If we do not value life, what do we value?


47 posted on 04/14/2011 8:03:06 PM PDT by Dante3
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To: RC one
This isn't about Christian ethics, it's about your tax payer funded medicaid/medicare gravy train.

BS. Don't try to twist the debate. If you think I'm getting rich off medicaid/medicare, you don't know anything about medicine. (I don't even accept new medicaid patients, but I treat many patients for the local Free Clinic - for free.) And I'd walk away from medical practice in a heartbeat if I were in any way pressured to cooperate in euthanasia (which is highly unlikely, since I'm just a Podiatrist.)

This IS about medical ethics, and whether we as a culture are going to force people into accepting euthanasia, plain and simple.

So again, the question remains, which budget items are more important to you than health care for those who need it? Would you ration care in order to subsidize welfare checks? Planned Parenthood? A new aircraft carrier or nuclear sub?

48 posted on 04/14/2011 10:34:13 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: RC one; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; ...
This isn't about Christian ethics, it's about your tax payer funded medicaid/medicare gravy train. Well, that gravy train is about to come to a stop whether you like it or not thanks to a $1.6 trillion budget deficit.

Okay, I understand you now.

YOU are one of these leftists who loves government confiscation of money and you think that once the money is seized that the government should be allowed to do with it as it pleases.

You seem to forget that, as flawed a system as it is, people paid into systems like Medicare with the promise of healthcare. Statists like YOU think the state should now be able to do what it pleases with the money.

49 posted on 04/15/2011 5:37:49 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: metmom; RC one; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; ...
If all someone has is government healthcare, as in this case, you'd rather just kill them off?

RC is a statist, statists LOVE death panels.

Every medical procedure was revolutionary and cost prohibitive at some point. As it was practiced and refined and became more widely used, the cost came down.

Statists really don't care about that, for them it's all about being able to kill of the untermenschen.

50 posted on 04/15/2011 5:41:56 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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