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COIN another strategy: Pull out our troops now
World Net Daily ^ | 4/14/2011 | Diana West

Posted on 04/14/2011 9:13:53 PM PDT by Sioux-san

Reading about another catastrophically maimed casualty of the counterinsurgency strategy (COIN) in Afghanistan, I was struck by a biographical note. This young American, now a triple amputee after stepping on an IED while on foot patrol, an integral feature of COIN's hearts-and-minds efforts, was only 11 years old when the war in Afghanistan began.

Come October, this war will have lasted a decade. Last month, the Iraq war passed the eight-year mark. During the Vietnam War, the question was whether there was any "light at the end of the tunnel." In these wars, we have to wonder whether there is any tunnel. If so, no one seems to be in any hurry to get out.

Why? Why is it that we have come to accept war without end – not to mention, I would (and do) argue, war without benefit? And why does it actually seem as though our leaders want it this way?

There are reasons, and they are shocking.

Watching Defense Secretary Gates in Iraq recently where he practically begged to leave U.S. forces in place after the scheduled pullout in December 2011, Jed Babbin, I think, nailed it. Writing in the American Spectator, Babbin guessed that President Obama just doesn't want Iraq to fall apart, at least not on the eve of the 2012 election. Ditto Afghanistan. And falling apart – I would call it reverting to type – is the inevitable result of U.S. withdrawal. "Who lost Iraq and Afghanistan?" is not a question Obama wants to get into during the election. Thus, Obama will slog on with COIN, maintaining his weirdly logical wartime alliance with the neoconservative, democracy-project right. On Obama's part, this is a political calculation, pure and simple. On the right, something else is going on.

(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
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I despise the tool that Petraeus has become - Code Pink was right - He is General Betrayus - but where are these anti-war zealots now when we need them??? A war without end is not acceptable -- our soldiers used as cannon fodder and for absolutely no good reason that matters to the survival of America. I am voting for the one who says bring our boys home now and actually will do it....if such a creature exists.
1 posted on 04/14/2011 9:13:55 PM PDT by Sioux-san
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To: Sioux-san

In Afghanistan, its looking more and more like small scale involvement by special forces backed by drone attacks, and letting the northern alliance fight the bad guys, was the better strategy. Rumsfeld was right.


2 posted on 04/14/2011 9:21:47 PM PDT by icwhatudo ("laws requiring compulsory abortion could be sustained under the constitution"-Obama official)
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To: Sioux-san

The ROE our people have to put up with is intolerable. Fix it or leave immediately.

Don’t know what I would do in their boondockers. Haven’t seen war up close and personal for over forty years now. I can see why they won’t let us old guys into the services, because I would probably just tell my superiors in the chain of command to get stuffed.

Also the kids aren’t trained properly. They need a leavening of experienced hands. People who, if the guys are being wasted, will simply say “no”.


3 posted on 04/14/2011 9:29:27 PM PDT by Iris7 ("Do not live lies!" ...Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn)
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To: Sioux-san; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; stephenjohnbanker; DoughtyOne; rabscuttle385; mkjessup; ...
RE :”Come October, this war will have lasted a decade. Last month, the Iraq war passed the eight-year mark. During the Vietnam War, the question was whether there was any “light at the end of the tunnel.” In these wars, we have to wonder whether there is any tunnel. If so, no one seems to be in any hurry to get out. Why? Why is it that we have come to accept war without end – not to mention, I would (and do) argue, war without benefit? And why does it actually seem as though our leaders want it this way?

Because walking away from a country after a military invasion doesn't work out is not as easy as it sounds. We will end up abandoning those that took our side as with Vietnam. Obama is not in this to win, just to pull a Johnson. and I never predicted Obama would start a third war. How could anyone?

That being said it is time we decided to use our military for our own benefit for a change. We are broke, worse than broke, and the endless costly wars just encourage more welfare government spending here. Let's drop the Bush-Obama-McCain-Graham doctrine that we are the world's police. Let's be a little more like China and less like the end of Rome.

4 posted on 04/14/2011 9:30:47 PM PDT by sickoflibs ("It's not the taxes, the redistribution is the federal spending=tax delayed")
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To: icwhatudo

Rumsfeld may have been right about tactics, but we were never in it to win it from the get-go. There must be something beyond the “hearts & minds” of Afghanis that has the Big Boys so entrenched...some rare metals, I have heard. Stuff that can be used to build state-of-the art artificial limbs?


5 posted on 04/14/2011 9:30:55 PM PDT by Sioux-san
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To: Sioux-san

Define “win” in Afghanistan. No one has been able to do that for over 1,000 years. Rumsfeld was right. Let the Northern Alliance run the show.

Everything is like Rome. The illegal swarm in and bankrupt and loot Rome like MS-13 and Latin drug gangs plus endless other third worlders.

Have the troops, aka the most patriotic, out of incredibly corrupt Rome so the evil ones can loot the country or city-state.

Watch Gladiator by Ridley Scott with Crowe and Hans Zimmer’s score. Maximus (our military) is betrayed by evil corrupt leaders.

The Muslim Brotherhood and Islamists are all through the US govt and miltary now cheered on by Fox Al Waleed, CNN Al Waleed, ABC-Disney Al Waleed. The public are clueless sheep.


6 posted on 04/14/2011 9:37:22 PM PDT by Frantzie (HD TV - Total Brain-washing now in High Def. 3-D Coming soon)
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To: sickoflibs

This has never been a real war. It is nothing like Vietnam. Once we leave, which we will, everything will go back to the way it was. We are the infidel, so there will be no victory there unless we are prepared to do what we’ve done in wars we’ve won. After 10 years, I gotta ask, is it worth my son or yours to die or get maimed in Iraq or Afghanistan? Alas, we see history again repeat itself, this time with a Leftie marxist PINO who could care less about victory and the mission. Just can’t quit and make all those other deaths be in vain.....not on Barry’s watch.


7 posted on 04/14/2011 9:38:51 PM PDT by Sioux-san
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To: Iris7

but our troops are getting excellent training on how to be just so glad about their new gay comrades in arms


8 posted on 04/14/2011 9:41:37 PM PDT by Sioux-san
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To: Sioux-san
Obama needs the troops back home for 2012. However, The Constitution prohibits him from using the Army against the American public, but we all know what Obama thinks about The Constitution.

I think we all know what the troops think about Obama. Fat chance, Barry.

9 posted on 04/14/2011 9:41:54 PM PDT by oyez (The difference in genius and stupidity is that genius has limits.)
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To: Iris7

You have a mu*lim in the white hut put there with Saudi, Chinese, Soros and Wall Street $$$.

Our troops are there to get killed only as it amuses the saudi king and islam. They are not there to fight just act as penny arcade bears in a shooting gallery.

Keep watching O TV - they will keep fooling and lying to you.


10 posted on 04/14/2011 9:46:22 PM PDT by Frantzie (HD TV - Total Brain-washing now in High Def. 3-D Coming soon)
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To: Sioux-san
RE :”Once we leave, which we will, everything will go back to the way it was. We are the infidel, so there will be no victory there unless we are prepared to do what we’ve done in wars we’ve won. After 10 years, I gotta ask, is it worth my son or yours to die or get maimed in Iraq or Afghanistan? Alas, we see history again repeat itself, this time with a Leftie marxist PINO who could care less about victory and the mission. Just can’t quit and make all those other deaths be in vain.....not on Barry’s watch.”

Next time we invade it has to be a rich country and we need to make money on it instead of these trillions in debt. China is economically colonizing parts of the world making $$ while we the worlds policemen are begging them for loans to keep afloat. This is completely insane.

I had a (fun) debate with an Obama liberal recently on Libya and Afghanistan and he sounded like everything he hated :GWB. I just repeated all his anti-Bush arguments back to him

Actually we had a similar problem in Vietnam. But once we got involved it was costly ( reputation wise) for us to leave, much like the Federal Reserve deflating our currency.

11 posted on 04/14/2011 9:52:11 PM PDT by sickoflibs ("It's not the taxes, the redistribution is the federal spending=tax delayed")
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To: oyez

There’s precedent - Clinton and Waco - war criminal Wesley Clark was the commander who provided materiel and men. Barry wouldn’t hesitate to do the same, I am certain.


12 posted on 04/14/2011 9:56:01 PM PDT by Sioux-san
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To: Sioux-san

Unfortunately you are right as I had this feeling for a long time, the moment we pull out of either Iraq or Afghanistan everything will revert right back to square one. For people to change it takes generations, not to mention the cult they believe in and refer to as their religion, just another handicap which is not easily overcome.

Too bad that in the mean time we have to put our young ones in harms way and have them either maimed or killed and in the end we have made no difference. Granted there are some people in these countries who would like to see change, but unfortunately not enough of them and to bring about real tangible change the majority would have to feel this way and I do believe we are far, far away from this point in time.


13 posted on 04/14/2011 10:03:45 PM PDT by saintgermaine
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To: Sioux-san

If we are not in this war to win it and have ROEs more stupid each day than I say bring our troops home. Let’s bring the best trained, best equipped military, fighting terrorism on their turf, home. Than, defund them, reduce their numbers and scrap their equipment. That’ll make everyone happy. We’ll fight terrorism in America - because you know they will be coming - in our towns and streets with civilians. The libs are unarmed because they hate weapons and that’s fine with me but I’m prepared to defend my self and my family. If you have never been to war, it’s a plan you’ll like. If you have experienced war, buy more ammo.


14 posted on 04/14/2011 10:05:20 PM PDT by Dapper 26
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To: Sioux-san
Diana West article poses the question of operationally what is being accomplished by the current attempt at counter insurgency. All three articles implicitly ask what is the strategic goal the US is attempting. Unfortunately I would be hard pressed to answer that. In Iraq it seems to me it is to keep the weak parliamentary regime in place. That actually does serve our interests in the Gulf which is containment of Iran and non-interruption of the movement of oil. There are clear and compelling US national interests in and about the Persian Gulf. In Afghanistan it is a different story. I am not persuaded that reducing the US and NATO footprint to a strong SF presence and using SOF and drones to kill as many AQ and Taliban leaders in conjunction with directly strengthening the Northern Alliance forces doesn't serve our interest best. Those interests are not nation building but keeping the AQ and Taliban off balance and killing as many of them as possible.

The Northern Alliance represents one of the groups that are our natural allies as they are surrounded by enemies. The Kurds and Assyrian Christian communities in Iraq are also. Supporting through crypto-diplomacy the parliamentary regime and with enough bribes and muscle keeping Iranian proxies from taking over is in our interest. But boosting communities that are pro-American by necessity and are good fighters such as both the Kurds and the Assyrians are natural pillars to any long term US presence. Israel, the ethnic hostage communities , US and maybe some other SOF types such as British SAS and our technology (and the Israelis) are the tools to work our will as best we can in that screwed up region. This is a sustainable way to fight a war that is not going to end for a long long time. Infantry patrols and ‘hearts and minds’ ops are just ways to create casualties. Some sort of combat modus-vivendi has to be evolved. The war with the Islamacists will go on and on. If we fold and leave they will be greatly heartened and move to fill the power gap and work hard to give us more 9-11 events. At the same time the armed forces cannot sustain a literally endless war that requires perpetual large scale deployments and many casualties among people in line units.

From what I can determine from the Internet the command in Afghanistan expects really significant fighting in the spring-summer period. The US forces are near their peak strength and operational planning has been in full swing and the Taliban have managed to rebuild their organization to the point they are planning their own summer offensive.
Beyond this campaigning season and the next one as well some more productive operational matrix is required. These articles point to the non-productivity of what is currently being done. The big question is what are the national interests of the US in Iraq and Afghanistan and how do we go about putting the pieces in place to serve those interests. The cartoonish way many US political leaders actually consider such questions is a major impediment to such things ever being addressed. Politicians are perpetually ensnared by the short term media driven event cycle so it is hard for them to ever think beyond the next few days. That is pretty much why Bush2 put VP Cheney in charge of running the global anti-terror war on a day to day basis. While he was swept up in the bust trivia of the Washington event cycle. However, without this sort of cool eyed sifting of the national interest the end will be a sloppy near retreat with pro-US communities left cut off and our enemies convinced they won a strategic victory.

The Islamacist leaders do indeed think in strategic terms. They are often mislead by the closed circle mentality of Islam that makes it hard for them to understand how any regime where the secular and sacred are separate functions. However they do try to visualize their strategic roadmap in an almost Clausewitzian manner. That is what makes the long duel we are in so dangerous for us.

15 posted on 04/14/2011 10:11:02 PM PDT by robowombat
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To: Frantzie
Define “win” in Afghanistan

Get the hell out, and if the leadership of Afganistan allows terrorists to use it as a base of operations(as did Osama Bin Ladin) take out the terrorists and the leadership of the country with whatever it takes to kill them. One small tactical nuke on Bora Bora in Afganistan would have taken Osama out and the Afghanistan leadership would have been scared shi-less to let anyone use Afghanistan as a base of terrorist operations.

Let it be known in advance that is the policy of our nation.

16 posted on 04/14/2011 10:41:51 PM PDT by cpdiii (Deckhand, Roughneck, Geologist, Pilot, Pharmacist, Iconoclast: THE CONSTITUTION IS WORTH DYING FOR.)
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To: sickoflibs; Condor51; calcowgirl; stephenjohnbanker
Let's drop the Bush-Obama-McCain-Graham doctrine

Smirking neo Billy Crystal (Fox talking head) was all aglow when Obama dropped bombs on Libya---chortling that Omao was now a "born-again neo."

The Libya no-fly zone is another cockamamie con job by the neurotic, self-absorbed neocons. Freud would have a field day with these people and their paranoic need to be number one. They think nothing of sacrificing US soldiers and US treasure for their selfish needs. They need to know Americans abhor the tactics self-absorbed neos use against Americans who dare to utter a discouraging word

We need a president to declare that the American era in the ME is O-v-e-r. There is NOTHING in the US Constitution that compels US citizens to subsidize these backwater ME hellholes. Libya is a backwater tribal society. God only knows the trillion dollar nation-building the US would be undertaking.

=========================================

ANALYSIS As we watch the Mideast go up in flames, we need to understand this is a colossal failure of the congenitally stupid neocons. They are truly the enemy within----their insistent finagling with US foreign policy----infiltrating the US govt----duping the US into emptying its Treasury into Mideast backwaters----propping up brutal dictatorships posing as democracies.

Neocons duped the he US into thinking we could hold back 100 million starving Arabs by throwing trillions at their savage rulers.

Mubarek's personal wealth is estimated at close to $70 billion---thanks to the neocons goading the US into blanketing Eqypt w/ US tax dollars.

Every US administration and congressional leader since 1980 is guilty of making this man one of the richest dictators in human history. Starving Egyptians who threw him out of the country spend 80% of their $2 per day income on food alone. This has been going on for decades.

Keep in mind, the publicized amount of foreign aid is only ONE SMALL indication of the tax dollars we dump into these Mideast sinkholes. Virtually every US govt agency pumps in billions of tax dollars under different disguises.

Without exaggeration, the US has dumped TRILLIONS into the Mideast----making these dictators wealthy beyond imagination.

Mubarak partnered with the Egyptian army to keep his power......and to make billions of dollars in business ventures with the Army, including lucrative arms dealing.

American citizens are losing their homes and SS is broke--but the money to the Mideast keeps on rolling along------thanks to conniving neocons.

The war profiteering by the Endless Mideast Invasions cheerleaders is monstrous. Neocon guru Richard Perle's war profiteering is such that he is starting an oil business in the bloody Mideast---a region made safe for Perle's business interests with US tax dollars and rivers of blood from young soldiers.

And isn't it "interesting" that impoverished Egyptians with hardly enough food in their stomachs were able to topple 30-year dictator Mubarak who controlled the Egyptian Army.

Yet, the Iraquis are whining that their army---trained with zillions of US tax dollars--won't be "ready" for another five years. By the time we exit there---if ever---all of the Mideast Invasion Cheerleaders will be zillionaires---and won't be paying a penny of US taxes.

17 posted on 04/15/2011 6:54:02 AM PDT by Liz (A taxpayer voting for Obama is like a chicken voting for Col Sanders.)
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To: Sioux-san

Like Rome in its latter days, we are over extended militarily with troop commitments of one sort or another on over 130 nations. We h ave become a military nation. Even our police have become militarized.


18 posted on 04/15/2011 7:04:34 AM PDT by pacific_waters
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To: cpdiii

“Our nation” is now controlled by muslims/elites backed by ALL of TV, newsmedia and Hollywood.


19 posted on 04/15/2011 9:38:22 AM PDT by Frantzie (HD TV - Total Brain-washing now in High Def. 3-D Coming soon)
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To: sickoflibs
"Let's be a little more like China and less like the end of Rome."
There you go.
20 posted on 04/15/2011 2:19:00 PM PDT by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned....Duncan Hunter Sr. for POTUS.)
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To: Sioux-san
Last month, the Iraq war passed the eight-year mark.

That combat mission ended August 31, 2010. It's technically not a "war" anymore.

And really, it's not.

It's nothing like the wild days bewteen '04 and mid- '07 and then the resurgence in the spring of '08.

It is a training, advise & assist mission now.

21 posted on 04/15/2011 2:22:05 PM PDT by Allegra (Hey! Stop looking at my tagline like that.)
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