Skip to comments.Freepers, thinking of 'going galt' [Opus]
Posted on 04/16/2011 11:31:56 PM PDT by The Watcher
Freepers... I am the son of a son of immigrants, a working class stiff, who came from a poor family. I've never known wealth and am unlikely to. However, I see the endless refrain to attack freedom to be in your own business, to do as you see fit, and to direct your own fate and your own energies very much in danger.
As one person with many talents, and capabilities I know that are greater than the sum of just hours and hands, it seems to me at days, that it really is time to "go galt", and just withdraw. And on other days, it seems to me that the Mouch types haven't won yet and the future is not set... The country CAN be turned back.
Galt wasn't a protester. He didn't arrange rallies and make big speeches, he did the one thing that could be done, sans violence, to defeat the people who controlled both the laws and the media.
It would be fantastically easier, if we could convince 500 titans of industry to "go galt' with their personal wealth and just let the political left collapse under its own weight of incompetence and impossible to fulfill promises.
What is clear, is that the first step, known as TEA Party, has happened. That is, a mass outpouring of indignation at the stupidity of the looting class and the punishement of success.
In Rand's novel, the public fails to understand, and instead, simply follows like sheep. Perhaps Rand never grasped what American means, and that it means that even if it's a minority, Americans as a whole simply do not fall for the socialists, the redistributionists, the elitists, etc.
It seems to me that FR has become the news and daily exchange for links of data and intel, a smallish coordinator of activism, but it is NOT a platform for serious debate.
Debate what? About "going galt". No, I don't mean to withdraw from society and go on strike, though I suppose somewhere in the future that might actually be an option. Rather, a somewhat more disciplined discussion to do what Galt saw as needing to be done. To unite the people who matter into action to achieve the ends that were required to save the nation from destruction. Rand's story is about starving the regime into collapse. But the whole purpose is not about exacting revenge or collapsing nations... It's about removing from the controls of power, people who have become professional looters of others for political power, and who hold places of influence, who have spread the poison of leftist dogma as the only truth... Poisoning the American soul with dependency and worse.
Would you be interested in a forum to have said debate? And by debate, I don't mean political diatribes, but instead, deadly serious discussion about, and coordination of, durable societal change, from the ground up.
I'll fund the startup of such a forum, but I lack the means to continue it and grow it to national stature or size, it would eventually require support, mostly in commitment and time, and a tireless recruitment effort, to make the movement large enough to do what Galt's team did... change a nation.
I have little illusion that anything I start can become that in and of itself. But one little light can light another, and another, and another.
What say you? Would you be in?
I’m not sure I understand why you are asking FReepers to start a new forum...can’t you do what you want to do here?
Here’s your problem: Those “500 titans of industry” all vote Democrat and give to liberal candidates and causes. All so as to destroy small competitors by using the power of the state to given themselves de facto monopoly or oligopoly control. It is as if, in an absurd backwards way, Marx is right: the wealthy ruling class fattens itself on the back of the producers, but in reality they do so by using Marxist means. The producers, in this case, are the true capitalists, entrepreneurs and small-to-medium sized business owners who see their ideas destroyed and their wealth appropriated for bailouts by those 500 titans of industry.
“Going galt” has got to be one of the most idiotic things I’ve heard across the Conservative spectrum. And feeling defeated is not a good excuse to embrace it.
“Your Hope redistributed. Here’s your Change” — an old tongue-in-cheek tag. Let’s not make it so.
I don’t need a debate on why I hate Obama, liberals and Dummycrats. I wont pray for them and anything that makes their destruction possible makes me happy.
It’s too bad you didn’t read what I said. Why don’t you go back and read it again, insted of knee jerk reactions?
This technology, layout, and platform absolutely does NOT lend itself to debate at all. It it designed to facilitate the mass postings of new links and articles, shoving the old into obscurity.
Good debate requires specific structure, moderation, and the proper interface.
Look, those that will burn in hell will burn there regardless.
We shouldn’t hide from them, we should simply remind them of their fate while speeding them to it through voting and working.
Hmmm.... I don’t believe I said it could be done... The book was about convincing a few hundred to go on strike, crippling the country. That would be easier, if possible. But I don’t think that’s an option. At all.
Which is why I said we need a grassroots discussion of accomplishing durable change in our nation. I have yet to find such a thing, anywhere. Not even here.
An underground already exists; some of it is formal, I’m sure, but most of it is not.
Galt is not my hero- I’ve not read the book. Jesus is my hero and I’ve internalized His outcome for this world, to the point of death (which I do not seek or relish at present).
Push come to shove, most Christians will die for their faith, though.
Without God I cannot discern any meaning for this life.
You didn’t read my post either. I guess nobody did.
it used to be that Freepers were a serious lot, with plenty of intellectual horsepower. So far, all I’ve seen is knee-jerk reactions to keywords.
I guess I’ll monitor this until it falls off the radar, but it appears that this is not the place to find serious people anymore.
I re-read your statement and think that you have an interesting take, a take I have pondered.
The bottom line is that Cloward & Piven have won, in some ways. Kids are taught the CORRECT ANSWER (the one that gives them an ‘A’) is the Communist/Socialist answer. There are more takers than producers and the planned influx of the third world, both legal and illegal is gutting the social order of a once proud country.
If 50% of your populace does not pay into the system and the producers are shrinking and retiring, and their replacements are spoiled, weak, PC Greenies, the backbone has rotted, so to speak.
I often wondered about buying 20,000 acres up in Idaho or Montana and growing food and having a Conservative “refuge” for like-minded people, but I then think of Jim Jones/Ruby Ridge stuff and back off that idea. If I bug out of CA, it will be on 10 acres up in rural Oregon or suburban Idaho.
The hardest part to accept is that many nice and well-meaning people really believe the New York Times and NBC News, thinking it is rational, objective reporting. We here at FR know the painfully obvious omission, spin and utter lies they produce, but if you are on the teat, and Kate Couric tells you it’s OK and Obama is doing great, your business isn’t affected because you do not really drive the economy. The Public Unions are so self-centered they cannot see the fact that they are killing the very source of their outrageous salaries, perks, healthcare and pensions...
I want to make a difference and get the gist, but am unsure of how banding could work, logistically.
The whole rest of my post is about NOT DOING THAT, but instead, debating and coordinating something useful.
Rand’s novel had a few key industries and titans of them held the nation in their hands. We are actually a nation of 25 million businesses, 25 million producers and ‘captains’ of their destiny. Why would I think that a ‘strike’ is really the means? I merely expressed my fatigue at having to be the daily target of mindless prejudice and stupidity, because I’m in business for myself.
Here’s the problem - debate is essential in the real world, while in cyberspace it works for a time, and then devolves into either agitation or mediocrity. It’s too easy for someone to be inflammatory and use word bombs when they don’t get their way, because a wall exists between them and the one they are goading.
Be careful for what you wish - the government will attempt a Real ID and the forum to go along with it. “Going Galt” from Free Republic is not the answer. Nor is even thinking about a withdrawal from society when the pendulum is beginning to swing our way.
You raise the first most obvious points... That of the alteration of education. We as conservatives need to intentionally invade education, take it back from the liberals and set things right.
You don’t seem to understand... the left has arranged hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayer money to fund their debates and coordinate their propaganda machines, to fund thier assault on education and so forth. Conservatives have not a single, grassroots intentional effort to organize to counter it head on, from the people up. There’s always think tanks who publish in DC, get accolades from a few thinkers and yet, the public knows nothing of it.
This means starting a debate, learning from those who know, how to create an effective media, and launching said media. How to invade academia, and deliberately coordinating the effort to do just that. They do and have done it for decades... Now it’s our turn.
I said “serious” discussion, and I meant deadly serious.
That is not the way to win hearts and minds.
I guess I didn’t address your concerns directly.
Many of us are off-grid, or out of the dependency loop already. Self-sufficiency is not a novel concept.
I can’t extract myself much more from the “system” at present.
There is already an underground economy. There are already people raising food and animals out of the mainstream market.
What am I missing?
This is very true and I have noticed the same problem in the past 10 years.
This is not the place to do that. If you’re here, you already know what you think and have your mind made up. Either you’re going to be for the idea, based on what it is, or not. If you’re not for it, me having charming rhetoric isn’t going to change your mind, now is it?
What you’re missing is reading my post. Go back and read it. I’m not trying to stage a mass “off grid” strike or protest. I’m talking about outcomes... discussing the means of, and then implementing, to displace the means by which the left has come to power and prominence.
I mentioned “going galt”, not as a call to abandon society, but instead, become dedicated to saving it, by whatever means that will require. In RAnd’s novel, it WAS leaving and going on strike, depriving the all taking government the means of survival, by giving it nothing to take.
Galt’s objective wasn’t destruction... it was to instead, fundamentally put society back on track. Don’t confuse method with purpose.
I think we need to continue what we’re doing. And Palin said it best yesterday when she argued against the mediocrity of the so-called TP reps in DC.
I don’t believe a passive-aggressive tactic will save the Country. It’ll require industrious activism, and an industrious economy. Entitlements, and self-serving expectations need to be replaced with hard work, pride, and the simple desire to save the wonderful Country for our children if not for ourselves. Perhaps we’re saying the same thing differently.
I vote for aggressive-aggressive. And yes, there was an element of ‘knee-jerk’ in my initial comment.
I don’t believe that needs to be any significant problem. This will not be a ‘free speech’ platform for demagoguery, it will be a moderated, serious debate. Moderation does not imply censorship, it means to impose structure and discipline.
As I’ve said already... I used “going galt” merely as an allusion... A sort of metaphor about having reached the point of taking action... And to actively recruit like minded to accomplish durable national change...
That’s become clear, FRiend.
This is a good discussion to have especially in anticipation of the motion picture series.
I read your post, twice. Who are you planning to punish?
Your scenario seems awfully generic.
If you’ve never known wealth... how can you “go Galt”? What impact do you think it will have? None. Except freeing up jobs for the unemployed.
If you convinced 500 companies to go galt, there will 500 new companies to take over. The world is hungry for work.
“Going Galt” is when you’re fed up working 80 hrs knowing full well 40-50 of those hours will go for the moochers. why the hell should i pay them to screw off? i’ve sat next to people and listened to them complain about not having work and being on welfare... while eating dinner and getting drunk at a local sports bar.
i just won’t do it. and i don’t have to. after decades of 60-100/hr weeks, i’ve socked away enough to last a long while.
not funding them is the only real impact i will have on the progressives desires. of course, if they spend money they don’t have... it’s all pointless.
While I believe conservatives are seriously behind the curve, we are catching up fast IMHO. The placing of an unrepentant marxist in the white hut seems to have set off alarms in the slumbering heartland. The speed with which dumbo and his apparatchiks set the wheels of centralized government spinning was unsettling, even though we knew it was coming. The state machinery has been put in place in one term that will be hard to dismantle. It leads me to believe dumbo never seriously considered a second term. 2012 is not really that far away. 2010 offered some encouraging signs. If 2012 brings similar results, we will know then whether the republic is likely to survive or not.
“I’ll fund the startup of such a forum, but I lack the means to continue it and grow it to national stature or size, it would eventually require support, mostly in commitment and time, and a tireless recruitment effort, to make the movement large enough to do what Galt’s team did... change a nation.
I have little illusion that anything I start can become that in and of itself. But one little light can light another, and another, and another.
What say you? Would you be in?”
You don’t need to ask the question - whatever answer you might get here may not be that meaningful anyway.
My suggestion is this: Start the project, invite people to join in, even on a trial basis, and soon you will get your answer - a real answer.
Galt was, in essence, a TEA Partier...he was one person who did the best with what he had to defeat his enemies.
The problem with getting the 500 Titans of industry to go along with this is that so many of them are actively engaged in crony capitialism...which is faux capitalism and relies on the government.
If it’s any consolation, I’m seeing more and more rank and file dems coming to terms with the fiscal problems we have, and what needs to be done about them. Frankly, that heartens me.
Now...I am way late in going to bed. Nitey nite! ;o)
For people to read your vanity rant and engage you in serious debate, people must be interested in doing so. For them to be interested in doing so, you’re going to have to make your points in a more coherent and interesting fashion.
Learn to write.
Learn to organize your thoughts coherently.
Have something interesting to say.
You would have to describe that before anyone could tell you if they thought it was a good or workable idea.
I hardly went John Galt, but 20 years ago I did take early retirement from a well paying job in the private sector at age 52. I did it for purely selfish reasons, after working full time since quitting school in the eighth grade, I felt the wife and I deserved to do so, because we could afford to. Wasn’t wealthy, just chose a retirement lifestyle to live within our means, we have never regretted doing so, and would do it again without qualms.
thread might be of interest
1 Year 3 months 26 days 12 hours 14 minutes and 46 seconds
1 Year 3 months 26 days 12 hours 14 minutes and 46 seconds
Sad to say... of the few who chose to respond, only one put thought into reading and responding. And admirably, too. The FR I knew of the long past, is apparently, the long past, and not many serious people any longer, just the casual readers and non-engaged...
I’d say this is probably my last post for FR, which is, for me, a very sad thing to say, since the early days of this site had a very large impact on my life and my thinking, because of people who were intellectually engaged, and could do more than the most cursory reading of something slightly cryptic, yet, obvious in intent.
Iv’e been here since long before you needed a login, sometimes with a hiatus of a few months, while matters of family or business took my attention away. It never occurred to me that the demographics had changed so much. Perhaps it was the fire and profundity of those who were so engaged that eventually put them in conflict with the rest and so, dwindled and drifted away.
For the rest of you who could not be bothered to read and comprehend a few lines of english and grasp the message behind it, you are not the people who will change anything but your own vote. You neither care, nor engage your mind enough to see past the buzzwords you’ve chosen to respond to. You are not the material of those who will save a nation in ruin, you’re just snipers from the peanut gallery. I am stunned at your failure to comprehend... and even amused by the poor schmuck who insisted I didn’t know how to write or think coherently. The early days of FR would have had me peppered with relevant questions, even hard ones, that displayed a keen and active mind.
Perhaps that’s why I used to read for the commentary... and now I scan the postings to find info and ignore most of the commentary.
JimRob, you can’t sit on your laurels any longer, your once great group has seriously decayed. I suggest some introspection and serious analysis to see why. I wish you well in your endeavors, your efforts from the past no doubt planted some of the seeds for the TEA Party to rise. May God Bless.
Ah yes, the very arrogance that is one of the biggest flaws of your philosophy. You’re uniquely blessed with the truth, and for everyone else it is, as has been noted elsewhere, “off to the gas chamber.”
Truly instituting change from the ground up involves first seizing and securing the Public school system...like the extreme left did back in the 70s, with a second more radical wave hitting in the 90s. By doing this, they ensured that they had a factory of willing atheists and socialists at their beck and call.
Unless you can take over or destroy the Department of Education, ground up change is an illusion.
Oh, and in one sense, I’ve already done this, in chosing the lower paying of two jobs (that offered more time off) knowing that every dollar of extra income the second job provided would be taxed at the maximum tax rate.
I just got through writing a long letter to you, to be sent to you privately by Freep mail. Don’t leave just yet! Please look for it.
The point, I believe, is not that folks need to “go Galt” but that it is human nature to do so. Folks won’t work as hard when their perception is that they will not enjoy the fruits of their labor. Simple, really.
I just sent you the letter I was writing.
I think I know what you were trying to say, and it’s not about going Galt. It is about a deeper level of discussion and learning, something that current forum software does not enable very well.
I am working on a new software project that you might be interested in. Read the Freepmail I just sent you and contact me when you can.
You're not thinking of starting some lame blog I hope?
We have enough lame blogs cluttering up the place already.
If Rand was mistaken, how do you explain us being where we are today? You can know the truth and still be a sheep and we seem to fit the description - we mock the PC society, yet we still abide by PC as a sign of "civility". That's the same as being taken in by it all and even sadder and more pitiful for our knowledge of the truth...
Please don’t be discouraged. Yes, I too am shocked by the arrogance and meaness of some posters. These personal ugly slams I see more and more of on FR lead me to think that there are many out there who are not only angry and unhappy, but bitter also.
I am going Galt in my own small way. I work and earn a supplemental income for my family only to see half of it go to various governments entities. I’m tired of feeding the beast and then be told I’m greedy and not paying my “fair share.” What’s the point? I’d rather spend my time and energy enjoying my family and working hard to support them in other ways. I want to make sure they have a future - and when I leave my job next month, I’ll have time for once to help those out there who are trying to make a difference.
Hang in there, Watcher.