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The Psychology of the 'Birther' Myth (Free NYT psychoanalysis! Flack over the target)
New York Times ^ | April 22, 2011 | Seven NYT anti-birther "debaters"

Posted on 04/22/2011 10:16:29 AM PDT by Seizethecarp

Hawaii state officials have repeatedly confirmed President Obama's birth in Honolulu, and his Hawaiian birth certificate has long been made public. Yet doubts about where Mr. Obama was born persist among a segment of Americans, despite all factual evidence.

A New York Times/CBS News Poll released on Thursday found that 45 percent of Republicans think that Mr. Obama was born in another country, while 33 percent said he was born in America.

Several states are now considering bills to require presidential candidates to provide certified proof that they were born in the United States before they can appear on the ballot. Arizona's governor vetoed the bill there, but Oklahoma lawmakers and those in Georgia are moving forward with similar legislation.

What drives this kind of false political belief and why is it so hard to dispel?

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: allegedlyamerican; allegedlyeligible; allegedlyhawaiian; birthcertificate; certifigate; naturalborncitizen; obama; trump
Obama coddling media are REALLY worried now. The NY Times has gone from ignoring the issue to full blown counter propaganda centered on "debunked" Factcheck, of course!
1 posted on 04/22/2011 10:16:33 AM PDT by Seizethecarp
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To: Seizethecarp
despite all factual evidence

What evidence???? Ex cathedra assertions by Obama worshipping media types don't count as "evidence."

2 posted on 04/22/2011 10:19:04 AM PDT by Lysandru
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To: Seizethecarp
Then there should be no problem with legislation requiring proof of eligibility — seeing how it's a myth and everything.
3 posted on 04/22/2011 10:19:19 AM PDT by BenLurkin (This post is not a statement of fact. It is merely a personal opinion -- or humor -- or both)
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To: Seizethecarp

Every day is like April first for these idiots!


4 posted on 04/22/2011 10:20:08 AM PDT by big bad easter bunny
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To: Seizethecarp

Race card played again! Shocker.

Was is ‘racist’ when McCain had to produce his BC? Trump did a couple of weeks ago after MSM outcry. Racist?

Isn’t it actually racist to hold a (half) black person to a LOWER standard than that of other candidates?

Do we have Affirmative Action standards for the Constitution? Is this commentator suggesting “No person shall...” doesn’t cover Obama because of his race?

Does show there are two standards: one for conservatives who must play by the rules and one for liberals who aren’t held to the same level of scrutiny.

Where are the Watergate/Pulitzer Price winner-types on this issue? Will it take THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER to get to the facts like the Edwards scandal?


5 posted on 04/22/2011 10:23:21 AM PDT by TigerClaws
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To: Seizethecarp
despite all factual evidence.

What factual evidence??? I've never seen anything "factual" to dispute his birthplace or his TRUE citizenship (and that of both of his parents).

Not to mention ALL of the other documents that have been hidden in secrecy.

These numbskull anti-constitutionalists, just focus on the Birth Certificate issue...and completely neglect ALL of the other documents. Why are they ALL hidden???? Answer that "factually" you dolts.
6 posted on 04/22/2011 10:24:08 AM PDT by Lucky9teen (Jobs? Nope! Economy? Nope! Disarm the U.S? Yep! Impeach the treasonous Marxist Muslim usurper bast)
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To: Seizethecarp

“why is it so hard to dispel?”

You must be kidding me.

BECAUSE YOU’RE NOT SHOWING A SIMPLE PIECE OF EVIDENCE.


7 posted on 04/22/2011 10:24:19 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: Seizethecarp; All

I figured the Liberal Media would be panicking now

Sad is that so-called conservatives are siding with Liberal Media on the Obama Eligibility issue.

I expect the NYT to call me a “kook” or a “crazy”.....not someone claiming to be a conservative doing so

I Am Birther


8 posted on 04/22/2011 10:24:32 AM PDT by UCFRoadWarrior (Karl Rove = Karl Marx)
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To: Seizethecarp
What drives this kind of false political belief and why is it so hard to dispel?

If it is false then it would already have been dispeled.

9 posted on 04/22/2011 10:26:09 AM PDT by cotton
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To: Seizethecarp

Where was the psychoanalysis of “truthers” like Van Jones?

How is an accusation the U.S. government was involved in murdering over 2,000 Americans on our home soil “reasonable political discussion” and Granny Dunham stopping by the local DOH office a “conspiracy theory”?

To this day Hawaii allows for those children of residents born outside the state to receive valid BCs. That’s why we need to see the long form.

The internet has been the game changer. MSM no longer has the monopoly.


10 posted on 04/22/2011 10:28:04 AM PDT by TigerClaws
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To: Seizethecarp
despite all factual evidence

Except that one piece that would put the entire controversy to rest.

11 posted on 04/22/2011 10:29:32 AM PDT by mojito
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To: Seizethecarp

What drives this kind of false political belief and why is it so hard to dispel?

Whom at the NYT has VERIFIED the facts to date?? Or do they just take Obama’s puppet’s words as gospel and out of hand.

Where is the F’n Birth Certificate?, Where are the college transcripts?, Where is an unbroken line of evidence as to where he was born and where he went, and when he changed citizenship, and legal name changes??? WHERE????


12 posted on 04/22/2011 10:30:25 AM PDT by wetgundog (" Extremism in the Defense of Liberty is no Vice")
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To: Seizethecarp

So what does this say about the Democrats who started this whole thing about McCain or started and still champion the Obama Birther movement (::cough::Phil Berg::cough::)

This was originally a Democrat started issue.


13 posted on 04/22/2011 10:31:03 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: the OlLine Rebel

The COLB on the net was never introduced into a court of law. It has never been independently examined by an expert in forensic evidence.

A simple google search shows the Nordyke twins have their long for BCs with doctor signature and hospital listed. Hawaii says ... SAYS .. this form exists for Obama as well. But they can’t take it to a copy machine and Obama can’t let reporters take photos of it in the ‘bound’ volume where it sits.

Saw last night that the left is trying to organize a Trump boycott. Seinfeld was first. Next will be sponsors of Trump’s TV show. Then his renters. Etc. Typical leftist tactics.


14 posted on 04/22/2011 10:31:30 AM PDT by TigerClaws
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To: Seizethecarp

I am not a birther, but I believe every state should have a law that certifies every presidential candidate as being qualified under the provisions of the US Constitution before placed on the ballot.

In fact, I think every Elector in the Electoral College should be given the evidence before they vote, and Congress be given the evidence before certifying the election.

Why these “birther” laws are even controversial I will never understand.


15 posted on 04/22/2011 10:32:27 AM PDT by radpolis (Liberals: You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy)
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To: mnehring

Good point. Hillary is the birther of the birther movement. I guess she’s a racist as well. And I thought she was the first black First Lady!


16 posted on 04/22/2011 10:33:04 AM PDT by TigerClaws
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To: Seizethecarp
Hawaii state officials have repeatedly cryptically, coyly, winkingly, noddingly, slyly, abashedly, abbreviatedly confirmed President Obama's birth in Honolulu

That phrase needed a little fixing...

17 posted on 04/22/2011 10:35:11 AM PDT by Migraine (Diversity is great... ...until it happens to YOU.)
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To: Seizethecarp
NY Times has gone from ignoring the issue to full blown counter propaganda

The NYT is no longer a newspaper, as that word was once understood. They function as the public relations department of the WH, and there is no service they will not render. I would guess that the "idea" for this story either originated in the WH, or with NYT editors who then ran it past WH officials to make sure they were on board with it.

18 posted on 04/22/2011 10:36:51 AM PDT by mojito
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To: radpolis

>>> I am not a birther, but I believe every state should have a law that certifies every presidential candidate as being qualified under the provisions of the US Constitution before placed on the ballot.

This makes you a birther...

Just so you know.


19 posted on 04/22/2011 10:39:32 AM PDT by Safrguns
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To: Seizethecarp

“Alternatively, he can refuse to grant these doubts the legitimacy of a response. This strategy could harm his political adversaries by enabling the so-called birthers to capture increasing proportions of Republican primary voters and in the process repel centrist voters.”

Interesting analysis.

And Donald Trump fits into that quite nicely.


20 posted on 04/22/2011 10:47:21 AM PDT by trumandogz
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To: Seizethecarp
The NYT is providing fresh sourced fodder for all the other MSM with which to shut down any mention of eligibility.

We'll see this material all over the place.

21 posted on 04/22/2011 10:50:02 AM PDT by Plutarch
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To: trumandogz; All

22 posted on 04/22/2011 10:50:43 AM PDT by Hotlanta Mike (TeaNami)
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To: Seizethecarp
Here's the list of the “debaters, academic affiliations and the titles of their probing “analyses”:

Racial Resentment at Its Root - David O. Sears, psychologist, U.C.L.A.

No Winning This Argument - James T. LaPlant, political scientist

A Matter of Motivated ‘Reasoning’ - David P. Redlawsk, political scientist, Rutgers University

Our Populist Birthright - Mark Fenster, professor, University of Florida

The Echo-Chamber Effect - Nicholas DiFonzo, psychologist

Echoes of McCarthy - Jerrold M. Post, political psychologist

Conspiracy Theories in Politics - Michael Barkun, political scientist

This “debate” is over before it even begins, or rather it begins with the assumption that “birthers” are crazy, paranoid, right-wing bigots and proceeds fairly from then on.

23 posted on 04/22/2011 10:51:02 AM PDT by mojito
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To: Seizethecarp
DEVINESECRETS
24 posted on 04/22/2011 11:00:56 AM PDT by FrankR (Liberals Don't Have Scruples, Judgement or Morals...only MOTIVES.)
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To: Seizethecarp

“Flack over the target”

Love the analogy. Made me chuckle for at least a good 3 minutes.


25 posted on 04/22/2011 11:03:05 AM PDT by rsflynn (Life is hard....twice as hard if you are stupid -- John Wayne)
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To: Seizethecarp

Professor Charles Rice on Obama’s ‘eligibility’

Good article and a solution for we the people to get the answers that demand an answer.

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/abbott/110227


26 posted on 04/22/2011 11:19:06 AM PDT by PrayAndVoteConservesInLibsOut
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To: Seizethecarp

And we have repeatedly requested actual proof like the real birth certificate.


27 posted on 04/22/2011 11:28:38 AM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: Seizethecarp
The reason Hawaii appears to be supporting Obama on this is simple IMHO.

Hawaii doesn't want to bring into question THOUSANDS of bogus COLBs created over the decades for people who are not really citizens.

At one time all you had to do was go down to the local courthouse and have them issue one based solely upon your representation of the facts.

Nothing else.

28 posted on 04/22/2011 11:32:39 AM PDT by Mariner (USS Tarawa, VQ3, USS Benjamin Stoddert, NAVCAMS WestPac, 7th Fleet, Navcommsta Puget Sound)
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To: Lysandru

“What drives this kind of false political belief and why is it so hard to dispel?”

I don’t know maybe because Barry has spent over $1million fighting lawsuits so he won’t have to show his birth certificate, college records, passport records or selective service records. Not to mention splaining why he has a social security number from Connecticut.


29 posted on 04/22/2011 11:35:45 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: Seizethecarp
Myths? This is a myth!



30 posted on 04/22/2011 11:46:08 AM PDT by Beckwith (A "natural born citizen" -- two American citizen parents and born in the USA.)
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To: Georgia Girl 2

Try $2,801,870.92 through 1st Quarter, 2011.

http://theobamafile.com/_associates/RobertBauer.htm#DisbursementsPerkinsCoie


31 posted on 04/22/2011 11:50:28 AM PDT by Beckwith (A "natural born citizen" -- two American citizen parents and born in the USA.)
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To: Seizethecarp

“Hawaii state officials have repeatedly confirmed President Obama’s birth in Honolulu, and
his Hawaiian birth certificate has long been made public. “

Sigh...
Janet Okubo’s statements began as confirmation , but, as time went on ,
she became more guarded
and more lawyerly.
And unsure.
Chiyome Fukino’s statements have been poorly
and ambiguously worded at best.
She’s never provided a shred of documentation
to support her claims.
Nor has she demonstrated or been queried on any understanding
of the Constitution
or natural born citizen.
If this same situation existed with George Bush , the backgrounds
of both these women would
have been thoroughly examined by the media and the Democrats.
Their backgrounds rightly would have been dismissed as
extremely inappropriate ,
rendering them highly
unqualified to make Constitutional determinations.
Their attempts to fashion themselves as self appointed
Constitutional arbiters
and Supreme Court justices
would have made them national laughingstocks.
Chiyome Fukino’s background can truthfully be likened to an affirmative action law school graduate
who never passed the bar exam
declaring that they are
qualified to interpret an MRI scan.

If the birth certificate has been made public, what remains sealed by the state of Hawaii ?
As of today , the name of Barry’s birth hospital could still not be an
answer on Jeopardy.


32 posted on 04/22/2011 11:52:12 AM PDT by Wild Irish Rogue
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To: Seizethecarp
Obama coddling media are REALLY worried now. The NY Times has gone from ignoring the issue to full blown counter propaganda centered on "debunked" Factcheck, of course!

*******

What about Colin Powell? Pro-Obama writers conveniently forget Colin Powell, the distinguished, highly respected former Secretary of State who many good people were trying to talk into running for president a few years ago. And he is black like Obama is black.

1. Why do I bring up the name of Colin Powell, born in New York City ?

2. Here's why: It has to do with the Obama long form birth certificate controversy.

3. If Colin Powell had run for president a few years ago, I believe that a lot of Americans would politely ask Powell to show us his birth certificate for this reason: As is widely known, Powell's parents were born in the Caribbean island of Jamaica.

4. We would want to look at Powell's long form birth certificate to merely make sure that his Jamaican parents were American citizens when Powell was born in New York City and not citizens of Jamaica.

5. It would have had nothing to do with racism or that Powell is black.

6. It had more to do with verifying that Powell's parents were American citizens at the time of Colin's birth.

7. And I wouldn't expect the respected and distinguished Powell going crazy like Obama has gone crazy when the public asked Powell to show us his long form birth certificate.

8. In fact, I believe that Colin would have been happy to show us his long form birth certificate so that he could put any question about his eligibility quickly to rest.

9. So those pro-Obama writers who continue to say that asking Obama to show the public his Hawaii long form birth certificate is a racist act are sick writers, because if the respected Colin Powell ever ran for president, we would also ask him to show us his long form birth certificate to verify that he was eligible to run for President of the United States. So there, you pro-Obama sick writers.

33 posted on 04/22/2011 12:10:59 PM PDT by john mirse
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To: john mirse
4. We would want to look at Powell's long form birth certificate to merely make sure that his Jamaican parents were American citizens when Powell was born in New York City and not citizens of Jamaica.

While NY long form certificates do list the birthplace of the parents, they do not identify their citizenship.

34 posted on 04/22/2011 12:15:03 PM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: Mariner

Exactly:

What Americans know for certain about this issue, is that there is something about Obama’s original birth registration its history of any amendments or alterations later made to it, which if they do not disqualify him Constitutionally as President, would in Obama’s own judgment more probably than not disqualify him electorially. Under the dominant leftist dogma since Watergate, even the appearance of impropriety would be a basis for impeachment, so the burden on clearing this up belongs with Obama.

This issue becomes more understandable when it is made clear that based on Hawaii law and regulations the information in a COLB is, as a practical matter, meaningless.

The reason that the COLB is meaningless is that there are three (3) levels of information at least in the HI birth records, including original registraation info, the INDEX of data extracted, and the info requested and issued in a COLB, which may quite readily not conform to the original registration nor have been validated by any objective evidence but which is typically based upon the current contents of the INDEX without disclosing prior changes or details of the original registration.

There are multiple and myriad ways in Hawaii in 1961 and since, that the original registration information may have been filed based upon an other than a “normal” hospital birth registration. From a standard hospital birth affirmation, to legally allowed “late registrations” including,“registrations of foreign born children of Hawaii citizens”; amendments and alterations of existing birth records, including to modify the existing record for ADOPTION which may include changing the birth fathers name on the original record. In consequence of these many variations, authorized by Hawaii statutes, regulations and policies, the original records may be SEALED and not thereafter subject to review at all. Information on the COLB from the modified or altered INDEX may not match in many instances the original registration information. Some original registrations do not require any third party verification but may be made on statement by a parent or other applying person, and if at all may be based on nothing other than a family bible entry.

But the most intriquing example of how a birth registration may have been made in Hawaii prior to 1972, is via a late birth registration (subject to later change or amendment) which at that time could be made solely at the discretion of the director of health on affidavit of a parent or guardian, possibly without any other confirming information. See: Hawaii code of regulations Public Health Regulations Chapter 8 former section 14. “Delayed Birth Registration” (”..additional evidence MAY [or may not] be required”). President Obama’s original Hawaii registration may well have been based on no more than an unverified statement by his mother or grandparents under then existing law. Making the COLB not only meaningless but materially misleading.

Whatever statutory legal presumptions may apply to a COLB under Hawaii law the simple truth is that due to the wide variety of manner and circumstances of registration, past lax evidentiary standards, potential for amendment and alteration such as by adoption, potential sealing of original records..and a COLB based only on Indexed data reflecting the revisions and nothing else.

A significant additional factor in continuing doubt as to Obama’s progeny is the unusual circumstance of no physician or hospital taking credit or being unequivocally named by Obama as his birthplace; and, as well, the seamy and facile way the MSM, such as the NYT resorts to and uses blatant deceit and unfounded nonsense to proclaim unfounded hearsay or rebuttable presumptions have already resolved this issue.


35 posted on 04/22/2011 12:21:01 PM PDT by Gail Wynand
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To: Seizethecarp
If you think they are worried now, wait until Corsi's book is delivered on May 17.

It was announced for sale on Wed, and has been #1 ever since.

Even the msm can't ignore a book that is a # 1 best seller.

36 posted on 04/22/2011 12:21:46 PM PDT by USS Alaska (Nuke the terrorist savages.)
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To: Seizethecarp
"doubts about where Mr. Obama was born persist among a segment of Americans"

Same ol' DNC Talking Points, equating the "Certification of Live Birth" to be the same as a "Birth Certificate", and "born in America".

The POINT is that the phony "Certification of Live Birth", which is a photo-shopped PROVEN phony document, is FAR from the argument that "Natural Born Citizen" is the REAL question, as his parents have yet to be shown on a Birth Certificate, and the Citizenship of BOTH BIRTH PARENTS has not been shown OR proven.

37 posted on 04/22/2011 12:25:30 PM PDT by traditional1 ("Don't gotsta worry 'bout no mo'gage, don't gotsta worry 'bout no gas; Obama gonna take care o' me!)
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To: mojito; Seizethecarp
Further reading in the article:

Party identification and racial resentment are perhaps the two most strongly held contemporary political attitudes. But one might protest, no authoritative sources associate Obama with foreign birth. Wrong. The New York Times and other mainstream media are not considered authoritative sources to most birthers, especially compared with many low-level conservative political operatives, or their like-minded social networks.

The NYT is certainly full of themselves! Weren't there a few published articles about a Kenyan-born Senator from Illinois? Perhaps not NYT, but not low-level journalism.

And anyone who considers NYT to be authoritative needs medication, especially when their comments are not provided with authenticated proof. They continue with their racism ploy to discount any objective questioning.

38 posted on 04/22/2011 12:35:58 PM PDT by PuzzledInTX
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To: Seizethecarp

“What drives this kind of false political belief and why is it so hard to dispel?”

I think it’s the same thing that drives true belief. People want to believe bad things about things they don’t like. They also want to be right, and once invested can hold out against mighty hordes and whole armies of opposition.

A noble quality when reality agrees with you, and a sign of insanity when it doesn’t.


39 posted on 04/22/2011 12:51:28 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Lysandru

“What evidence????”

COLB, birth announcement, etc.


40 posted on 04/22/2011 12:52:34 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: cotton

“If it is false then it would already have been dispeled.”

Naive statement in a world where still containing people who believe we never landed on the moon and JFK wasn’t killed by Oswald.


41 posted on 04/22/2011 12:54:57 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: cotton

“in a world where still containing people” = a world still containing people


42 posted on 04/22/2011 12:55:55 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: TigerClaws

“Where was the psychoanalysis of ‘truthers’ like Van Jones?”

I can’t say it was equal to what the birthers are getting or they took as much glee in it, but the MSM pretty thoroughly debunked trutherism. Just ask the truthers. They complain about it almost as much as you guys.


43 posted on 04/22/2011 12:58:52 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: PuzzledInTX
Weren't there a few published articles about a Kenyan-born Senator from Illinois?

I seem to recall that in 2004, when 0 gave the big speech at the Democratic convention that nominated Kerry, that much of the TV coverage was all about how wonderful it was that a man born in Kenya was now a US senator.

Does anyone else remember that, or am I dreaming?

44 posted on 04/22/2011 1:03:46 PM PDT by mojito
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To: Tublecane

And Obama has the power to put all these questions to rest as well. Show the long form BC, school transcripts, etc.

Very simple solution. Even Chris Matthews now says Obama should just “show it” so we can move on.


45 posted on 04/22/2011 1:15:33 PM PDT by TigerClaws
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To: TigerClaws

“Even Chris Matthews now says Obama should just ‘show it’ so we can move on.”

Why would he want us to move on? It’s not a loser issue for him. At least, not amongst people who already weren’t going to vote for him. It splits the opposition (fuddy-duddy “Inside the Beltway” types vs. Young Turks), and frankly makes all conservatives look a bit extreme and petty.


46 posted on 04/22/2011 1:34:47 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Gail Wynand
"Whatever statutory legal presumptions may apply to a COLB under Hawaii "

Yes, but this issue goes directly to the Supreme Law of the Land. The US Constitution.

Any Federal Judge could subpoena the original registration whenever they believe they have a basis for doing so. As could Congress, either House or Senate. And, of course, the USSC.

I think Obama fights this because he knows all he's got, AT BEST, is nothing besides his mother or grandmother's statement.

He's foreign enough to most folks that this issue has sunk him. It's sunk him even if he can produce a good original...because he has drug it out so long.

A majority do not see him as "one of us" anymore.

47 posted on 04/22/2011 2:06:52 PM PDT by Mariner (USS Tarawa, VQ3, USS Benjamin Stoddert, NAVCAMS WestPac, 7th Fleet, Navcommsta Puget Sound)
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To: Seizethecarp

don’t tell me .. without even reading it .. it is a race issue right????


48 posted on 04/22/2011 3:14:25 PM PDT by Munz (All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.)
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep
4. We would want to look at Powell's long form birth certificate to merely make sure that his Jamaican parents were American citizens when Powell was born in New York City and not citizens of Jamaica.

While NY long form certificates do list the birthplace of the parents, they do not identify their citizenship.

*******

This is mirse. Thanks for the information above.

Does it list the race of the parents?

Does it have the name of the doctor and the name of the hospital?

If we wanted to check the citizenship of Powell's parents at the time of Colin's birth, what document would we ask Colin to provide?

I think that whatever document we asked Colin to show to the public in order to prove that his parents were citizens when he was born in New York City, Colin Powell would be more than happy to show us, because I don't think he would have anything to hide, and he would want to quickly put to rest any doubts about his United States citizenship status at the time of his birth.

Thanks again for your help.

49 posted on 04/22/2011 4:30:22 PM PDT by john mirse
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