Skip to comments.Can We Prevent a Second Civil War?
Posted on 04/29/2011 9:26:36 AM PDT by marktwain
There are three issues that could presently trigger a Civil War in America:
* Illegal aliens. A government that refuses to protect our borders, the methodical structure of citizenship, and the rule of law, will only be tolerated for so long. America is reaching a tipping point on this issue.
* Abortion. Irreconcilable differences here. This may likely become as potent an issue as slavery was in the 1860s.
* The right to keep and bear arms - see "2A Today for The USA"
No other significant present day problems could potentially result in the brother against brother tragedy of a Second American Civil War.
Sooner or later, the massive invasion of America by illegal aliens will be confronted, if not by the rule of law then by either armed police officers and soldiers or armed citizens. There are twenty million or more illegal aliens entrenched in this nation now. How many tens of millions more will it take to reach a tipping point? At what point will law enforcement agencies and/or the military begin to do the job they were sworn to do? At what point will citizens themselves be forced, by government inactivity, to confront this invasion by force of arms?
Will the liberal politicians actually allow this showdown? Is this actually the sort of crisis opportunism that Obamas Rahm Immanuel, and other leftist cultural Marxists, relish?
As an American, and a gun owner, would you take to the street to confront this illegal alien invasion? Do you have a personal breaking point on this issue?
I wont deal with abortion here, except to note that the anti-abortion forces have the same moral intensity and personal commitment that was demonstrated by the slavery abolitionists of the nineteenth century. We saw where that led in America.
However, there is a third possible cause of a Second American Civil War: infringement of the right to keep and bear arms.
This nations Second Amendment freedoms have too long been burdened with the lethargic, tunnel vision behavior of the gun owners known as Elmer Fudds, or, as Aaron Zelman used to call them quackers. This is the good ole boy type who simply doesnt care about gun registrations, permits, regulations, or even confiscations, as long as he can keep his deer rifle or shotgun and exercise his sportin rights. This myopic fellow can be bought off for the price of a buck tag or duck license. Even Senator Chuck Schumer is a Fudd! I aint gonna take your shotguns away, fellas!
On the other side of the room from the Fudds is the Cold Dead Fingers crowd. A lot of tough talk over in that camp. A lot of arm chair patriotism and rhetorical heat. A lot of let em try to take my guns! chest puffing. But somewhere at the core of this quite large group of gun owners is a determined minority that does really mean it.
I would assert that every single one of these very determined armed Americans has some idea, deep in his or her heart, as to what their personal line in the sand actually is. When it comes to this amorphous, mostly low profile, group, the hammer is cocked. These folks are getting to be known as the Three Percenters.
What the cultural Marxists, elitists, and authoritarians who advocate gun control (read "Know Thine Enemy") dont seem to be able to grasp is the strange fact that a significant minority of human beings are willing to fight ferociously to preserve their freedoms. This irascible minority has yet to be awakened to action. But theyre sleeping with one eye open.
The attacks on the Second Amendment have, since 1934, been so gradual and incremental that the victim disarmament forces have prevailed to an amazing degree. They hear the loud complaints of gun owners, then make strategic compromises with other compromisers, and then, sure as day, theres another gun regulation, permit process, limitation, restriction, tax burden, or license needed for each of us to exercise an unalienable right that, according to the American Bill of Rights, shall not be infringed.
Makes me think of the laughs I got as a kid when, in the Bugs Bunny cartoons, Elmer Fudds head turned into a big SUCKER when Bugs had tricked him once again. What also comes to mind is Charlie Brown and Lucy with her football, the football, that, to my knowledge, Charlie Brown was never able to kick. Only, unlike the comics, few of us are smiling about this. This could become deadly serious. Because the sneaking vermin cannot be allowed to win.
What must be obvious to any truly concerned American gun owner is that we absolutely must take EVERY action afforded us to prevent a Second American Civil War. This means that gun owners must become far more personally involved. Gun owners have to really grow fangs and learn to snarl in a societal and political sense. Wake up! You are the gun lobby these insidious liars and manipulators complain about! Remind them of that in every lawful way that you can.
Do you want to remain completely anonymous, but still help? A blank postal money order sent to GOA, SAF or JPFO works just fine, thanks.
We have to learn how to warn these gun prohibitionists off with unrelenting determination. When we gain a political victory or legal victory like the Heller or McDonald cases, we must be willing to dig into our own pockets and financially support those who truly won those victories, so that they may drive forward and win another, and another, with relentless momentum.
Political activism doesnt need to cost much at all, especially in this day and age of email and unlimited phone calling plans. If you cant afford to donate money to a Second Amendment organization, write the letters, send the emails, and make the phone calls in support of our gun rights. Talk to your gun owner friends and neighbors. Dont let them remain Fudds or Quackers!
Or, when you hear They aint gonna get my guns!, ask that person how he or she is going to stop them. Dont let this kind of chest puffing go unquestioned. Ask the arm chair warrior what he or she is doing now, today, to PREVENT that horror. If the question makes them uncomfortable it should! It wont be Chuck Norris, Sly Stallone or Arnold coming through with minor flesh wounds, friends. A Second American Civil War will not be played out on a Hollywood set. You wont be able to get up and leave the theater.
We need to prevent that war before it happens. How can we best do so? By preserving our right to keep and bear arms. Contribute to JPFO today and help us to protect that right. So called gun control must be completely destroyed. We must restore the pre-1934 state of affairs to America. Join JPFO today.
Frequent JPFO contributor and strategist, Kirby Ferris collaborated intensively with Aaron Zelman over the last two years. Ferris is now the Public Affairs Director of JPFO.
I do not see that a disorganized rabble running around randomly killing suspected liberals would get the job done. Or even cutting off the head, won't do it.
I imagine it would have to happen like it did before, by succession of some state. Who? Texas? Alaska? But then what? Same outcome as before. Feds come in and squash everything. I think the way out of this is as follows: Everyone pays taxes, poor or rich (skin in the game). Elections are fair. Illegals go home. In this framework conservatives will win.
Bring it on.
AMEN! I have my list of "cleaning" to do on that day, I hope you do too.
I'm sick "Henry Bowman" sitting on his ass.
-- John Stuart Mill English economist & philosopher (1806 - 1873)
It would not be a war of standing armies on a battle field like in the old days. It will be a war of assasins & death squads.
Also those folks who talk about another civil war do not seem to have given a great deal of thought regarding logistics,targeting of leadership cadres, rules of engagement ,propaganda ,secure communications(this is the most important task) weapons procurement/production(suppressor equipt weapons like the welrod pistol),recruitment & vetting of active measures personnel.
All of these things need to be organized for there to be a successful resistance to the tyranny of the Imperial fascist govt.
Logistics is what wins wars along with a coherant strategy of what is wanted & thought on how to achieve the desired goals.
Not everyone in the North was for the war, think ‘copperheads”. Not everyone in the South was for the war, all did there duty. If a states secedes then a citizen has 2 choices; do his duty or leave.
You’re arguments are specious and show your lack of understanding of a republic. Entire states secede not individuals, we’ve been over this and you still don’t get it.
What 2 sides?
Christian conservatives are certainly a side.
Who are the other side? The left? The takers? The entitled? Nope. They won't fight. Fight for what? They don't have anything morally to fight for.
If we really do come down to hard times and Christian conservatives stand up the left population is going to shrink really fast.
“If the balloon goes up, the result will be closer to the Finnish Civil War than the American.”
If things get too chaotic and bloody, foreign countries will get involved; think Mexico, China, Russia, European Union, islamic states to deliver “humanitarian” aid and to prevent “innocents” from getting “massacred”. Don’t be naive to think it will remain insular. You must think of all implications.
And when do you stop? When do you put a new government in place? How pure is pure? Do you end up with a Stalinist leader who keeps the death squads going?
Please undersand, I am not being provocative. I have a hard time seeing how we can succeed without it ending up being worse.
I still think we have time within the system. At least until 2012.
I do get it, I just disagree. We are not in the situation where States will secede en-mass. Society and politics are very different now. Politicians today are gamesmen, not statesmen, they won’t make big bold moves like seceding, they will always move to the status quo. IF there is a CWII, it will be a cold war between the producers and the collectivists/non-producers.
Can we prevent a second civil war?
No. It’s inevitable.
Thank you! It was such a good thought, I knew I couldn’t have conceived it all by myself :)
It will be state vs state, again.
“During the meeting, President Obama dropped in and, according to Sarah Brady, brought up the issue of gun control, to fill us in that it was very much on his agenda, she said.”
I just want you to know that we are working on it, Brady recalled the president telling them. We have to go through a few processes, but under the radar.
IMHO, that would be a very bad move on their part. They would do well to stay out of our affairs, our military has more combat experience than any other nation out there. It would be folly to put that to the test.
With civil unrest or war comes martial law.....no elections. I can “embrace the suck” till next election puts him out on his seditious skinny Erkel Mugabe wannabe ass...
He seeks CWII with his every action.
We can’t let him force such on us.
Vote & Bloat....
It would only take one state to do it, the rest would follow like dominos. It would spread like wildfire from red state to red state.
I was flipping back and forth between that and the weather channel, but to be honest with you, the weather had my attention since we were under a tornado warning a good part of the evening. I'm less than 20 miles from Ringgold, GA, where several died in a tornado.
Good stuff—I don’t think the Marxist will fight. No the one’s in this country. We already have a Constitution, we just need a “country”.
The NAZIs didn't have anything moral to fight for either, but that didn't stop them. And if you closely watch the tactics of the left, and especially the unionized left, you'll see that their tactics are very similar to those used by the national socialist party in the 1930's. Except this time, the conservatives are the new 'Jews'.
What, you don't have a personal list?
Please consult the "Patriot's Directory of Persons to Shoot in the Event of a Second Revolution."
It is amazing how fast some Freepers forget that everyone of us lives in a semi autonomous function country(state) and the we’d hardly notice if FedGov disappeared. Lincoln did a hell of a job destroying the republic.
But I doubt it would ever even get this far. Secessionist movements have been marginalized away to the point that politicians wouldn't touch that issue with a ten foot pole. The three main State secessionist movements we have in the country are all portrayed (usually for good reason) as fringe groups. We have the pot-head free-staters in New Hampshire. The Direct Marketing secessionist scams in Texas selling fake land grants and currency. And the Hawaiian nativist movements.
Third, it takes the politicians involvement to secede, yet the politicians are part of the problem. They are part of the system that eats off of the labor collected by the citizens. There is very little difference between them and the guy who stays on unemployment/welfare/whatever program by choice because he doesn't feel like working. Politicians will never threaten their milk cow.
No, if there is a CWII, it will not be a hot war between States. It will a cold war between individualists and collectivists.
What if our military is torn between various factions? One side (the losing side) might call on aid. The Confederacy was begging for intervention from the the UK and France. What better time for the Chinese to invade to “prevent genocide” or for Mexico to “liberate” the Southwest?
And it is amazing of those who have no clue that the states created the federal gov’t. Not vice versa. The states can dismantle the fed should it collectively desire.
Agreed as I stated a lot of serious thought needs to be done & it isn’t getting done . I am only pointing out a few of the obvious thngs that need to be looked into .
The second civil war will start out as a resistance movement that has as its goal to render its enemy unable to govern effectively how they will acheive this can be thru the use of propaganda, vandalism ,sabotage, arson,assasination of mid-level govt. bureucrats,targeting of media people that are basically govt. propaganda hacks.
These are the more extreme methods that will come into play if the electoral system becomes viewed as being hopelessly rigged & the politicians do not pay attention ie keep on with the crony capitalism ,spending the taxpayers money like a drunken sailor in a whorehouse & demanding more & more .
I don’t were you live but I live in a republic. That Butcher Lincoln did his best to destroy the concept but I got news for you and all other statist butt boys, the Republic of our founders is alive and well in me. You need to get a clue. It is a southern thing. Appomattox changed nothing.
There are many clueless Freepers. I have to remind them that this site is FREE REPUBLIC, not FREE CONSTITUTIONAL DICTATORSHIP
Keep up the “good fight”!
You are correct technically, I am referring the the reality of the citizens and politicians of our day. We may live in a Republic, but we don’t act like a Republic. Most people don’t want to lift a finger to do more than change the channel on their remote. Most politicians from the local level on up won’t lift a finger beyond signing the back of a check. Most people who actually think a civil war is a remedy won’t do a thing beyond click away on a keyboard.
Our Free Republic (no pun intended) of Independent Citizens has become Give It To Me Free Public of Dependent Citizens.
Most people today couldn’t even change a tire, at that act as an independent, self-governing individual.
Your home page says you are from Texas, start acting like it.
“The first is expensive. The rest are free.”
You first, you want it, quit clicking away on a keyboard and do something.
I do not have delusions that 90% of our citizens are not just waiting for the next episode of American Idol. Do you honestly think that if, even several hundred thousand people stood up tomorrow and said enough is enough and marched on DC, the other 290 million people would cheer them on?
It will take several generations before we would get back to the ideal point you describe where people act like they are worthy of the Republic they live in. It is a sad reality, but it is reality.
Tell me do you know the percentages of colonials during the Revolution that were tory vs neutral vs Revolutionaries?
Unintended Consequences (I’ve read it) is the Turner Diaries without the racism. Hell, I’d go so far as to say that it’s a full blown rip-off.
15% were actually active in the Revolution, 30% supported it versus 60% opposed it.
Right now, you would be lucky to get .5% to get out of their seats away from American Idol.
As I said, you are right about our Republic, but I think you have too much confidence in a majority of the people in this country who don’t act worthy of the Republic they live.
That’s why I believe if there is a CWII, it will be a cold war where the producers drop out of the system, starving the beast and simply creating a new underground system for producers, by producers.
No, I do not.
Three choices. Do his/her duty as an American and relay as much intelligence about the secessionists as humanly possible.
A five minute warning?
Precisely. Before long you wouldn't have just two opposing factions. You'd have tribal warfare on a large scale with multiple warlords. See entry at just about any 20th century African nation.
It's you mentality that tells us why the Nazi's, who were a small minority, took over Germany.
It is an old tradition that captured spies are shot the dawn of the following day of capture.
“When the checks quit printing, the looters will move out into the suburbs and rural lands looking to take what they want.”
It was lack of government paychecks which brought down the Soviet Union.
It is amazing how fast some Freepers forget that everyone of us lives in a semi autonomous functional country(state) and the wed hardly notice if FedGov disappeared. Lincoln did a hell of a job destroying the republic.
“Who are the other side? The left? The takers? The entitled? Nope. They won’t fight. Fight for what? They don’t have anything morally to fight for.”
100,000,000 dead under Communism would differ. The left, takers, and entitled are who took over Russia, China, and many other nations.
Historically, revolutionaries who're seeking to replace a government, tend to be cowards who attack the weakest first to create terror. The only revolutions that have really worked out well for the citizenry have been wars of independence where the enemy had a homeland to retreat to. Vast difference between breaking off and taking over.
Quite the contrary, I pay an inordinate amount of attention to politics. However, not having any plans to kill anyone myself, I'm in no position to second guess those who do harbor such thoughts.
Interesting link. Notable quote: “One area in which Croley has shown less interest, according to several people who have spoken with him about the issue, is restricting the large-volume ammunition magazines that allowed the Tucson shooter to keep firing. When Paul Helmke, director of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, broached the subject during the March 15 gathering with Croley, officials promptly adjourned the meeting.”