Skip to comments.Can We Prevent a Second Civil War?
Posted on 04/29/2011 9:26:36 AM PDT by marktwain
There are three issues that could presently trigger a Civil War in America:
* Illegal aliens. A government that refuses to protect our borders, the methodical structure of citizenship, and the rule of law, will only be tolerated for so long. America is reaching a tipping point on this issue.
* Abortion. Irreconcilable differences here. This may likely become as potent an issue as slavery was in the 1860s.
* The right to keep and bear arms - see "2A Today for The USA"
No other significant present day problems could potentially result in the brother against brother tragedy of a Second American Civil War.
Sooner or later, the massive invasion of America by illegal aliens will be confronted, if not by the rule of law then by either armed police officers and soldiers or armed citizens. There are twenty million or more illegal aliens entrenched in this nation now. How many tens of millions more will it take to reach a tipping point? At what point will law enforcement agencies and/or the military begin to do the job they were sworn to do? At what point will citizens themselves be forced, by government inactivity, to confront this invasion by force of arms?
Will the liberal politicians actually allow this showdown? Is this actually the sort of crisis opportunism that Obamas Rahm Immanuel, and other leftist cultural Marxists, relish?
As an American, and a gun owner, would you take to the street to confront this illegal alien invasion? Do you have a personal breaking point on this issue?
I wont deal with abortion here, except to note that the anti-abortion forces have the same moral intensity and personal commitment that was demonstrated by the slavery abolitionists of the nineteenth century. We saw where that led in America.
However, there is a third possible cause of a Second American Civil War: infringement of the right to keep and bear arms.
This nations Second Amendment freedoms have too long been burdened with the lethargic, tunnel vision behavior of the gun owners known as Elmer Fudds, or, as Aaron Zelman used to call them quackers. This is the good ole boy type who simply doesnt care about gun registrations, permits, regulations, or even confiscations, as long as he can keep his deer rifle or shotgun and exercise his sportin rights. This myopic fellow can be bought off for the price of a buck tag or duck license. Even Senator Chuck Schumer is a Fudd! I aint gonna take your shotguns away, fellas!
On the other side of the room from the Fudds is the Cold Dead Fingers crowd. A lot of tough talk over in that camp. A lot of arm chair patriotism and rhetorical heat. A lot of let em try to take my guns! chest puffing. But somewhere at the core of this quite large group of gun owners is a determined minority that does really mean it.
I would assert that every single one of these very determined armed Americans has some idea, deep in his or her heart, as to what their personal line in the sand actually is. When it comes to this amorphous, mostly low profile, group, the hammer is cocked. These folks are getting to be known as the Three Percenters.
What the cultural Marxists, elitists, and authoritarians who advocate gun control (read "Know Thine Enemy") dont seem to be able to grasp is the strange fact that a significant minority of human beings are willing to fight ferociously to preserve their freedoms. This irascible minority has yet to be awakened to action. But theyre sleeping with one eye open.
The attacks on the Second Amendment have, since 1934, been so gradual and incremental that the victim disarmament forces have prevailed to an amazing degree. They hear the loud complaints of gun owners, then make strategic compromises with other compromisers, and then, sure as day, theres another gun regulation, permit process, limitation, restriction, tax burden, or license needed for each of us to exercise an unalienable right that, according to the American Bill of Rights, shall not be infringed.
Makes me think of the laughs I got as a kid when, in the Bugs Bunny cartoons, Elmer Fudds head turned into a big SUCKER when Bugs had tricked him once again. What also comes to mind is Charlie Brown and Lucy with her football, the football, that, to my knowledge, Charlie Brown was never able to kick. Only, unlike the comics, few of us are smiling about this. This could become deadly serious. Because the sneaking vermin cannot be allowed to win.
What must be obvious to any truly concerned American gun owner is that we absolutely must take EVERY action afforded us to prevent a Second American Civil War. This means that gun owners must become far more personally involved. Gun owners have to really grow fangs and learn to snarl in a societal and political sense. Wake up! You are the gun lobby these insidious liars and manipulators complain about! Remind them of that in every lawful way that you can.
Do you want to remain completely anonymous, but still help? A blank postal money order sent to GOA, SAF or JPFO works just fine, thanks.
We have to learn how to warn these gun prohibitionists off with unrelenting determination. When we gain a political victory or legal victory like the Heller or McDonald cases, we must be willing to dig into our own pockets and financially support those who truly won those victories, so that they may drive forward and win another, and another, with relentless momentum.
Political activism doesnt need to cost much at all, especially in this day and age of email and unlimited phone calling plans. If you cant afford to donate money to a Second Amendment organization, write the letters, send the emails, and make the phone calls in support of our gun rights. Talk to your gun owner friends and neighbors. Dont let them remain Fudds or Quackers!
Or, when you hear They aint gonna get my guns!, ask that person how he or she is going to stop them. Dont let this kind of chest puffing go unquestioned. Ask the arm chair warrior what he or she is doing now, today, to PREVENT that horror. If the question makes them uncomfortable it should! It wont be Chuck Norris, Sly Stallone or Arnold coming through with minor flesh wounds, friends. A Second American Civil War will not be played out on a Hollywood set. You wont be able to get up and leave the theater.
We need to prevent that war before it happens. How can we best do so? By preserving our right to keep and bear arms. Contribute to JPFO today and help us to protect that right. So called gun control must be completely destroyed. We must restore the pre-1934 state of affairs to America. Join JPFO today.
Frequent JPFO contributor and strategist, Kirby Ferris collaborated intensively with Aaron Zelman over the last two years. Ferris is now the Public Affairs Director of JPFO.
I just don’t see anything happening anytime soon. Sure we get upset, but thats bc we follow what’s going on. The left has refined their destruction skills to perfection. It’s never one big event. It’s small events that get absolutely no coverage. 75% of America doesn’t even know what’s going on. So any uprising would be squashed and reported as the lunatic fringe.
Then on the other side, unless there is a massive shift in ideology, Congress will never strip welfare and other expenditures like it. They should, but they won’t.
Maybe I’m wrong, but I just don’t see it happening any time soon.
Over a thousand people showed up in Roswell, NM last night to protest some damn lizzard, that the EPA wants to call endangered and use to stop drilling.
2 weeks ago in the Gila over a thousand showed up to protest against closing roads in the national parks.........people have had enough and out here they are armed.
Sure, more sports and more.
Keep ‘em diverted and thinking like 15-year-olds.
My daughter and brother whose forced relationship with unions will not see them taking up arms to defend them, nor do they support their tactics. There are many Americans that hate the unions but must belong to one in order to keep their job.
Here's a hint: Random foot soldier and soccer moms ain't it.
IF there were a second civil war, it would be nothing by the first. It will not be brother shooting at brother or a fight for territory. Instead it will be a war of boycott, strike, economic ‘hacking’, and message manipulation. You will see an economic war where a ‘black market’ economy wages war against the economic players who still give into the greater and greater burden. You will have the producers ‘drop out’ of the system and only work with each other, not contributing back to the system. It will be a ‘Cold War’, not a hot war.
But, I don’t think there will be anything like it. As soon as things get heated, the masses will be appeased with a new season of American Idol and those who are more prone to action will be kept busy surviving- paying bills, taking care of their family, and chasing rabbits of conspiracies they think are important but really keeps them distracted.
There are many union member sunhappily forced into that role. But the “true believers” in the union mob are just a hair’s breadth away from converting their thuggish tactics into real violence. Scott Walker’s plan to remove the union boot from the necks of public workers is our best hope at averting that prospect.
I believe the Obamunists, especially people like Holder and other radicals Obama has installed as his henchmen, would love to see an uprising against government policy, and in fact are no doubt prepared for it if not actively trying to promote it.
They would be thrilled to have a reason to bring the military and police might of the government down on non-liberals.
You can bet that they already have a plan to wrap up the “”Bitter Clingers”, Preppers, Militias and the Tea Party.
They will confiscate weapons, shut down gun and ammo sales and take control of the energy and food industries. They will see that government money and power are used to favor their supporters and punish their detractors.
At the first sign of organized rebellion Obama would declare an economic and military emergency, postpone elections and use the situation to wipe out his critics and complete his socialization and nationalization of the country.
Remember their motto:
“You don’t ever want a crisis to go to waste; it’s an opportunity to do important things that you would otherwise avoid.”
Is it ironic that most of the left is on the wrong side of all those issues?
I see a little cross over on each, but generally the lefties I know are on the wrong side of each of them or 2 out of 3.
“And the media will spin it as the ‘racist hoarders massacring the hungry.’”
Who cares how they spin it?
I agree. Tyrants don't get totalitarian control when things are peachy, they take totalitarian control on the heels of crisis or uprising.
The Fed Govt is already at war with the States and the People there in.
And that’s why it’ll never happen. We’ll just go gently into the night, rather than step on any innocent toes.
Yep, economics above everything else.
When people are loosing their property because they can’t pay taxes that keep going up to pay for more and more services for the none produces and more and more of those services go to illegal aliens, you have a lit stick of dynamite just waiting to go off.
Also, do we start from the top down, or from the bottom up?
There’s a fourth and driving factor, Obama. After all, he is a community organizer as is Emanuel; and, IMHO, they would love to see violence break out, of course, they would go underground. Obama has so much as stated this in at least one of his orations; but, alas, I don’t have it(the quote) at my fingertips.
Illegal immigration: Yes, I have reached my breaking point, but am not foolish enough to think I can solve it by myself, so I’m just waiting for the rest of you folks to catch up-please hurry up. BTW, if/after the problem is resolved, I want to hold the people who created/sustained the problem personally responsible, you know what I mean?
Abortion: Same, same. Abortion is the greatest crime against humanity in the history of the world, the holocaust on steroids. I think those who support unrestricted abortions should be aborted.
RKBFA: As Charlton Heston said, “...from my cold, dead hands.” All things being equal, I would love to have Obama try and take my weapons.
Good points. Actually your first paragraph describes the lefts current tactics. They are doing this right now.
Your second paragraph hearkens back to the days of the Roman Empire with the grand circuses and gladiator fights. Again, this is what leftists are currently employing as a national pacifier. But what happens when the welfare checks stop arriving or the banks can’t cash them? What will be the response when grocery stores can’t open their doors because they have no groceries to sell - because the trucks that deliver them couldn’t get fuel?
What will happen if (when) the lights go out?
The media, the enablers and accomplices, will be dealt with in the same manner as the freeloaders.
Top down, bottom up, inside out! I don't think it would be hard to find the enemy - just cut off the welfare for a week or two and they'll come rising up out of the cities like ducks on a pond.
That reminds me. Did you see Death Wish 3 Wednesday night on AMC?
Personally, I see it playing out this way:
The number 1 priority for the Federal Government (aside from keeping the spigot for deficit spending open) is to keep patriotic Americans disarmed. If they can’t keep them disarmed, it is to keep them asleep. If it cannot keep them asleep, it is to keep them disorganized. This strategy works insofar as despite the fact that the deck of legal recourse is stacked against anyone attempting to further traditional viewpoints because of the large number of liberal lawyers and judges who infest it, no one wants to be the first one to take the step of extrajudicial recourse. Now we’ve reached the stage where not only the judicial, but the executive branches of government are stacked against those who would promote traditional patriotism.
I expect that it will be the left that takes to the street first - either in a disorganized fashion as the nation goes bankrupt and federal dole money purchases increasingly fewer tidbits - or in an organized fashion as union demonstrators and other radicals take to the streets and demonstrate on your front lawn. Really, they’ve already taken to the street in the latter form in isolated instances (invading bank buildings, demonstrating on a bank exec’s lawn, Madison Wisconsin)...
The question is, what do you do? If a union mob that may be armed and violent shows up on your front lawn and is chanting, carrying signs, do you hide in your home? Or do you stand up, open a window and make an announcement “YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE! THIS IS PRIVATE PROPERTY! ANYONE WHO DOES NOT VACATE THE PREMISES WITHIN 5 MINUTES SHALL BE SHOT!” Knowing of course that the unionized police are in bed with the union mob and will ignore their violation of the law in showing up on your private property and threatening you but will probably try and take you down if you resist?
Can We Prevent a Second Civil War?
Perhaps, but I doubt that we will.
President Obama and his policies and the weak economy.
You are 100% correct. The pending civil war will be the producers standing their ground to protect their property against the rioting looters and the government.
It could come to a point where the grocery stores are empty along with the gas stations. People will kill for food, water or gas.
and if you are waiting for the first shot you haven’t been paying attention.
brother against brother tragedy of a Second American Civil War.
An illegal alien A hostile enemy invader is no brother of mine.
It’s not brother against brother!....
It’s Americans against far left whack jobs! These bastards are destroying America! They left the reservation a long time ago! They can go ahead and die with there damn ideology. They are to far gone to even negotiate with.....
Also, do we start from the top down, or from the bottom up?
Ask the experts, veterans of previous wars.
One of the oft-repeated sayings around Memphis whenever massive gang fights or *urban disorder* would raise its ugly head, was that there was one advantage to having a race war: you don't have to choose sides; your face has already done that for you.
The problem is that everybody will have a slightly different "line in the sand". If infringement happens slowly enough, then only a tiny number of people will consider any particular item as their trigger, and they will get picked off in isolation.
The far left has taken over the democratic party and wants to punish America for its greatness. I’ll be damned If I’m going back to Mud huts and bicycles for the sake of the third world! I don’t feel guilty for America’s greatness and I don’t need to apologize to any tin pot dictator in the f’ing U.N. for my country, damn it!.....
“I think Federal intrusion into our personal lives is a 4th issue which could trigger things. People are pretty fed up with being told what they can eat, where they can go, what they can say, what they can wear, what they must believe, etc. etc.”
Bingo! I was wondering when somebody would pick door number four. IMO this is a much more likely trigger and is already a catalyst for the numerous states that are starting nullification moves agains’t the Federal Government overeach.
Personally I do not see a Civil War where the average citizen is out in the street with an assault weapon fighting the US military. More likely you will see the states standing up to the Feds and saying “enough”. They are beginning to take back their sovereignty and I forsee this snowballing as the next couple of years roll by. When the economic collapse comes and make no mistake its coming soon then the states will go their own way and ignore the Federal Government. At that point we may see the restoration of the Constitutional Republic. I am counting on it.
People will be moving to states that stand up to the federal government.....they will elect strong willed people to tell the feds to go “F” themselves!
I believe many US citizens would not feel so desperate to protect their gun rights if the government, and I specifically mean legislators and the Department of Justice had not failed to have strong prosecution and punishment against criminals. With the revolving door justice system creating more victims, people are done asking for the protections they are due and are going to do it themselves.
Further fears are of the Federal Governments willing participation in the handover of our nation to illegal INVADERS and allowing Muslim militant enclaves to grow. They failed to protect our soveriegnty and way of life so now the American people feel the need to arm themselves like no other nation or society in modern history. Our citizens should not feel they have to do the duty that our soldiers and law enforcement swore to do. But political correctness and multicultural BS prevents that from happening and now citizens are having serious discussions about a Second Civil War, a war that no one truly wants, but some, like myself, are convinced and resigned that it will happen.
The failed War on Drugs has led many police departments to adopt a more military approach to attempting to stop the drug trade, organization, and crime associated with it. This had led to more Swat raids that are not stopping the drug trade, and when mistakes are made, sometimes innocent people are paying the price. This is frightening and angering the US citizens and are turning them against the police. This needs to end. NOW. Swat raids should be a rarity, and only for violent individuals that cannot be taken into custody in other less intrusive and tumultous manner.
Folks, I would rather explain to a thousand grieving family members that their loved one died of a self induced overdose, than try to justify one botched raid where a man died defending his home. Or another police funeral for an officer who died trying to fight this unwinnable war on drugs. Or a innocent kid or grandmother shot in a driveby done by gangmembers who are financed by the war on drugs.
I’m sure many of you have heard of Oathkeepers, made up of former and active military and law enforcement. I agree with their mission statement and personally will seize no weapons from a citizen unless that weapon has been used in a specific crime and is needed for evidentiary purposes in a criminal trial.
But no sooner did that organization come to life, then those in bed with big goverment, namely the SPLC/ADL, deemed the Oathkeepers a hate/anti-goverment organization. This was done plainly to keep the “troops” in control by stating if you are a member of this organization, you are potentially a terrorist and that’s the kiss of death for anyone working in government. You cannot work for goverment if you are part of a subversive organization, and that is what SPLC/ADL made Oathkeepers out to be, to keep their ranks from swelling and really influencing policy.
This is particularly insidious because if you are like me, and say the whole goverment panic displayed during Katrina, in which officers and soldiers seized firearms, was a bad policy. It’s a better policy to work with the citizens and develop some no go areas, curfews, contingency plans and even deputization of armed citizens, rather blanket confiscation. That scares the piss out of people and that turns to anger, and it does not simply need to be.
FWIW, and given this is the internet, none of the officers I work with or know have ANY desire to confiscate weapons from law abiding citizens during any disasters or social unrest, nor we will abide by any federal orders to do so. (How could I look my family, friends, and neighbors in the eye and tell them they have to turn their weapons, knowing that I, as a LEO, simply cannot protect them. Sorry that dog don’t hunt and I will have nothing to do with it.) The Fed controls money through grants but can’t force state and local LE to do anything we don’t truly want to do. They don’t have the manpower. I know a lot of feds that have are gun enthusiasts and fervent supporters of the 2A and have no designs on citizens firearms AND believe that Waco and Ruby Ridge were f’ed up from the ground up.
Keep pushing to keep the libs off our guns, and for government accountability. Some of us have not lost sight of our responsibilities and duties. We are just constrained by political ideologies that hurt our nation.
“Can we prevent a second civil war?
First question: why would you want to?”
Our enemies within & without are watching and waiting for an opening. It would be best if we could work out our problems through debate and at the ballot box. In any case, I agree - better to “live free or die”.
“Can We Prevent a Second Civil War?”
I hope not.
Bring it on.
Notice how the police quietly took the side of the Wisconsin protesters. And then notice who has the big guns.
Don't count on the US military, they will follow orders. Hoping for support from officers is dangerous, as the guy saying the koran should be protected showed.
If the balloon goes up, the result will be closer to the Finnish Civil War than the American.
Agreed. I’m not arguing against why you feel that way. I’m saying, no civil war is going to happen anytime soon. JMO
Why give them five minutes? Five minutes is a hell of a long time, and more than enough time for them to bring in reinforcements.
They can vacate your property in thirty seconds. Hell, if they are directly threatening you, why give them any time at all?
My thoughts exactly. When the checks quit printing, the looters will move out into the suburbs and rural lands looking to take what they want. The battle lines may be every beltway highway in America.