Skip to comments.Black box of doomed Rio-Paris Air France flight recovered, say investigators
Posted on 05/01/2011 11:38:48 AM PDT by csvset
Search teams recovered the memory unit of one of the black boxes of the Air France Rio-Paris plane that crashed in the Atlantic in June 2009, investigators said Sunday. The crash had killed all 228 people on board.
AP - Frances air accident investigation agency says an undersea search has located the flight data recorder from the 2009 Air France flight that went down in the mid-Atlantic. In a statement, the BEA said the black box was localized and identified on Sunday morning. The statement included photos of the recorder - a red cylinder partially buried in sand on the sea floor.
Investigators hope that the black box will help determine what caused the June 1, 2009 crash of Flight 447 from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, to the French capital, Paris.
All 228 people on board were killed when the aircraft plunged into a remote area of the Atlantic during a thunderstorm.
The bulk of the wreckage was only recently discovered in a deep-sea search.
Had only we expended as much effort on flt 700’s black box...
I just hope the pilot was say Allah Ahkbar as the plane crashed into the ocean.
I wonder if this one has a tape in it.
007. Damned dixlsiea...
First you say it...
It doesn’t matter. As long as people are unwilling to let go of their beliefs that terrorist brought down the plane any evidence would be disregarded and in fact would be considered as “manufacturered” to “cover up the truth”.
I meant Flt 007. (I’m never going to hear the end of this, am I?)
Which flt was this?
No, you're not ;)
KAL 007 shot down by the Soviets or TWA 800?
Korean Air Lines Flight 007
I bet they got hit with a microburst and the wings just snapped like twigs.
Why is it I that I have this feeling that regardless of why the plane went down, authorities weren’t eager to locate that box too quickly?
My money is on super cooled water build up in the pito tubes that caused multiple system failure in the computer systems.
A lot of disturbing incidents with the Airbus 300 series planes over the last ten years, stating with the crash in Queens in 2001. Airbus has scared off a lot of business.
***Korean Air Lines Flight 007***
I was at work that night and kept up with the hourly reports of it’s disappearance.
I believe the transponder kept signaling but they still could not find the black boxes. Later it was said the Soviets were sending out false transponder signals to confuse those looking for the boxes.
I believe the boxes were recovered much later and found to be empty.
It will be interesting to see what, if anything, is recovered from that box, especially considering that the box is probably being recovered from a depth that is near the absolute design max of the box itself.
Kudos and outstanding efforts by the deep water recovery teams finding the black box so deep on the ocean floor.
“Kudos and outstanding efforts by the deep water recovery teams finding the black box so deep on the ocean floor.”
For sure! That couldn’t have been easy.
If the box is of modern construction, it might use mil-spec multi-error-detection and correction flash memory and not a metal or plastic tape, so it might be in pretty good shape. I think I read that if there is no mechanical damage or long exposure to fire, they are amazingly sturdy.
Actually, there is quite a bit to see here. As several other posters pointed out, the AB300 has been plagued with problems, almost from the very beginning. It has hurt business. Who loses when Airbus is hurt because of manufacturing or design flaws? Europe - as in European governments, who of course, are the owners of Airbus Inustries.
From a purely business perspective - as a manufacturer - nothing could please them more than to peddle this off to an act of "something other than design or manufacturing flaw" - like terrorism.
Perhaps some of our aviation friends here on FR can help me.
Why don’t they install real-time satellite transponders to send the same info going to the black boxes?
Rolls Royce does it with their jet engines.
Unless there is a landfall nearby, isn't the whole ocean considered "remote"?
The black box is a red cylinder.
tHE fLT 700 RECORD WAS COVERED UP. iF THE RECORDER WAS FOUND IT WAS DESTROYED
Strangely enough the plane on question had satellite uplink for maintenance issues etc. but not for emergency data. Most of what is known about what happened to the flight is from the maintenance data sent to the home office.
Right you are but Komrade Klinton couldn’t have such on his watch. I’ll go with all the eye witnesses.
Oh look....mylife learned a new word.
Next time you learn a new word, learn what it means, not just how to spell it.
AF447 most definitely did not encounter a microburst, and it's wings most definitely did not snap like twigs. Well, maybe on impact with the ocean in a flat spin.
Scratch post as flight changed. Note to self: something to be said about reading established threads before posting.
...and for posting the correct flight number in the first place...
Just the opposite, they went to great trouble and expense to do so. Not knowing precisely what went wrong puts great stress on EVERY agency, manufacturer and supplier along with AF.
There was much angst when the wreckage was not found quickly.
Way too many conspiracy loons around who know very little about aviation, and are always looking for an evil entity to blame for every accident.
Uhhh, nooo. They are doing just fine. Not a single order has been lost due to safety concerns.
Concerned about composites? Oh yeah, Boeing was so concerned about that they built an entire airplane out of it (but screwed the program up badly).
Well, they do, but the parameters are much more limited than what is stored in the box. The aircraft sends regular condition reports via sat, and unusual events as they happen.
Events cascaded quickly on this flight, overwhelming the ability of the system to sort out the what/why/how/when. So it was imperative to recover the box. Hopefully they will also recover the CVR.
Click on the map for a larger version.
Interim Report n°2 a/o 09 Nov 30 (PDF 9.4MB)
At this stage, in the absence of any data from the flight recorders, the main parts of the airplane and any witness testimony on the flight, the precise circumstances of the accident, and therefore its causes, have still not been determined. The investigative work is continuing with this objective.
Fairly decent journalism concerning aspects of the FDR & CVR that have been recovered.
> ...air-safety experts fear the plane's impact or the intense water pressure on the sea floor could have damaged the protections, allowing corrosive brine to leak in. The two cylinders containing the data cards were transported from the ship in demineralized water to avoid the risk of further corrosion.EXCERPTED: read the entire article at the above link.
BEA experts will first remove the chips from the casings and wash them to remove all salt. The memory cards will then be dried in a special oven for at least 12 hours. They will be inspected with a microscope for damage and tested to see if they still function, Mr. Menez said.
The drying process has sparked debate among technical experts about the best and safest way to handle the recorders without jeopardizing data. Some specialists say the chips should dry gradually, over three to five days, to prevent delamination -- separation into layers -- or other internal damage.
Mr. Menez said his team will move judiciously. If the cards appear to be in good condition after 12 hours, they will be plugged into a new black box linked to a computer. All the information on the cards will copied onto an encrypted hard disk for analysis.
If the memory cards are damaged or unreadable, engineers will attempt to extract data more directly from the individual chips. Industry officials say the BEA has been seeking advice from chip makers on how to do this. Specialists from Honeywell International Inc., which produced the black boxes, are standing by to assist if necessary,BEA officials said...
Forensics on the solid-state memory will take at least a day utilizing established accident investigation procedures pertainent to record-to-wire or tape technology. Presumably the the entire contents of the recorder will be read so as to collect every readable bit of the medium (in physical bit order), and then reconstruct the logical data from there. Basically a sector-by-sector (image) backup of a hard drive, rather than a logical file-by-file backup. And then investigators will work with the backed up image(s) of the original device (which will be treated as 'evidence'). Advanced recovery techniques will be focused specifically on those arbitrary bits that are unreadable. Extraction of 'stubborn' bits will be slotted into the image backup as appropriate.
On a digital data recorder individual chunks have a unique timestamp, so even if the high level structural data - file system metadata - on the memory device is lost they'll still will be able to reconstruct some portion of the data stream (regardless of the physical order the data is encountered on the media). This could be an issue due to the inherent random nature of physical addresses utilized for writing any arbitrary block of data to flash-memory. Flash-memory firmware is designed to scatter each data block across the entire spectrum of available physical addresses. Its one of the reasons one should never defrag a thumb-drive if one desires to prolong its lifespan.
Then the job of translating each parameter into a graph, then synchronising all these parameters together will take a long time (e.g., matching individual flight control input to the observed effect on the flight surface and a subsequent reaction of the aircraft). Then everything will be correlated to forensic examination of the engines - both physical and a possible read-out of their EEC memory - and the airframe components that have been recovered...
I wouldn'nt expect anything accurate, i.e., official preliminary results, to be released for at least a couple of months or so. The final results won't be released for at least another year (or more). However, keep an eye out on new procedures or recommendations released by Airbus and/or other airlines in the interim.
A good explanation of the process, alas ! in French:
Recovery of airplane parts has continued over the past few days, with one engine and the avionics bay, containing onboard computers, having been raised. Click on below thumb-nails for high res image:
French investigators have confirmed that the flight recorders from the crashed Air France Airbus A330-200s contain readable data.
The Bureau d'Enquetes et d'Analyses said it had retrieved "all of the data" from the flight-data recorder and the "whole recording" of the final two hours of flight from the cockpit-voice recorder.
"Following operations to open, extract, clean and dry the memory cards from the flight recorders, BEA safety investigators were able to download the data over the weekend," it says.
"All of this data will now be subjected to detailed in-depth analysis."
BEA says it expects the work to take several weeks but will publish another interim report into the 1 June 2009 accident "during the summer".
The flight-data recorder was retrieved from the wreck of flight AF447 on 1 May while the cockpit-voice recorder was similarly recovered on 3 May.
Confirmation by BEA
Good thing I did a search on the boards before posting this. Discussion continues http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2720523/posts