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Missouri takes levee battle to U.S. Supreme Court
CNN ^ | 05/01/2011 | Ashley Hayes

Posted on 05/01/2011 2:38:38 PM PDT by Hawk720

Missouri on Sunday asked the U.S. Supreme Court to halt a plan to intentionally breach a levee on the rain-swollen Mississippi River, flooding Missouri farmland in an effort to save an Illinois town.

Earlier, Missouri filed a federal suit to block the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers from following through on its plan to breach the Birds Point-New Madrid levee. A federal judge on Friday ruled against Missouri, saying a 1928 law permits the breach of the levee to ease pressure on the river.

Missouri Attorney General Chris Koster filed an application for an injunction to the high court on Sunday. It was assigned to Justice Samuel Alito, according to the U.S. Supreme Court's website.

The Corps of Engineers says the action is necessary to save the town of Cairo, Illinois, although it will flood rural Missouri farm communities. "I know that the price being paid is high," said Maj. Gen. Michael Walsh on Saturday.

"Demolition of the levee, however, will cause serious flooding across large portions of Mississippi County," Koster's office said in a statement Thursday, when the federal suit was filed.

Koster believes the 1928 law is unclear "as to whether the Corps of Engineers actually has authority to make the decision to detonate the levee," the statement said.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; US: Illinois; US: Missouri
KEYWORDS: acoe; alito; chriskoster; flooding; holderspeople; jaynixon; judsonchilds; levee; michaelwalsh; mississippiriver; scotus

1 posted on 05/01/2011 2:38:40 PM PDT by Hawk720
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To: Hawk720

I’m going to build a levee but I reserve the right to blow it up when I see fit....would you sign right here?


2 posted on 05/01/2011 2:41:49 PM PDT by gorush (History repeats itself because human nature is static)
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To: Hawk720

I sure wish there were some way to divert that water to the Colorado River in Texas—we’re drying up around here—all our rivers and lakes are way down—at least that is the case Deep in the Heart of Texas—around the Austin-San Antonio area.


3 posted on 05/01/2011 2:44:21 PM PDT by basil (It's time to rid the country of "gun free zones" aka "Killing Fields")
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To: Hawk720

I sure wish there were some way to divert that water to the Colorado River in Texas—we’re drying up around here—all our rivers and lakes are way down—at least that is the case Deep in the Heart of Texas—around the Austin-San Antonio area.


4 posted on 05/01/2011 2:44:35 PM PDT by basil (It's time to rid the country of "gun free zones" aka "Killing Fields")
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To: Hawk720

Sounds like a states rights’ issue. There are 700 Missouri guard already on duty nearby. Maybe they should have a conversation with the COE.


5 posted on 05/01/2011 2:45:07 PM PDT by Truth29
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To: basil

Looks like it’s double post time again—sorry!


6 posted on 05/01/2011 2:45:35 PM PDT by basil (It's time to rid the country of "gun free zones" aka "Killing Fields")
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To: Hawk720

Rob Peter to pay Paul?

Seriously - the flooding is a tragedy - but how come the Corps gets to play god? They built the levy to protect people and their property... so now they are going to pick and choose who’s property they protect?


7 posted on 05/01/2011 2:49:49 PM PDT by TheBattman (They exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature...)
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To: Truth29

Time to arm the guards and not let them do it.


8 posted on 05/01/2011 2:50:24 PM PDT by BOBWADE
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To: basil
I think we need a new look at how we engineer waterways.

We need to think canals with exits to direct water (to treatment plants?)...just like a highway.

When the Erie Canal was built, it sucked nearby water sources and caused all kinds of milling problems. We need to do the reverse.

9 posted on 05/01/2011 2:55:11 PM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: TheBattman
so now they are going to pick and choose who’s property they protect?

Not saying they are right, but someone has to decide this.

10 posted on 05/01/2011 2:57:04 PM PDT by Palter (If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it. ~ Mark Twain)
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To: TheBattman

My thoughts were along the same lines....too many citizens who should know better treating the ACOE and the courts as false gods who can adequately direct the forces of nature.


11 posted on 05/01/2011 2:57:42 PM PDT by relictele
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To: TheBattman

The COE gets to play a god because they a) built the levee, and b) had landowners under the levee sign “flood easements” to be used in the event of high waters like this.

People should think very carefully before accepting the first dollar of federal money for ANYTHING. The attachment to regulatory powers might seem like a gossamer thread then you’re hungry for the money and signing on the dotted line, but I assure you it will turn into manacles of the strongest forged steel come “emergency” times.


12 posted on 05/01/2011 3:05:33 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: TheBattman
so now they are going to pick and choose who’s property they protect?

Which side do you think this administration is going to come down on?

Cairo, Illinois as of Census 2000

35.93% White,

61.70% Black or African American,

0.08% Native American,

0.72% Asian, 0.03% Pacific Islander,

0.36% from other races,

and 1.18% from two or more races;

0.74% of the population were Hispanics or Latinos of any race.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_American

13 posted on 05/01/2011 3:06:30 PM PDT by digger48
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To: Palter

But it would seem that the Corps made the decision long ago when they built the lousy levy.

Of course, if Missouri was serious, they could call out their National Guard and have them defend the Levy... That could make things interesting.... I wonder how The One would handle THAT 2AM call... Probably no better than any other disaster or event so far.


14 posted on 05/01/2011 3:06:52 PM PDT by TheBattman (They exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature...)
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To: digger48

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo,_Illinois


15 posted on 05/01/2011 3:07:32 PM PDT by digger48
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To: Hawk720
The plan calls for engineers to use explosives to breach the Birds Point-New Madrid levee, flooding 130,000 acres of Missouri farmland that has been designated as a flood plain.

is Cairo, IL not "in a floodplain"? Oh- wait... ILLINOIS...

2008- Missouri went for McCain, Illinois went for Obummer...

16 posted on 05/01/2011 3:12:21 PM PDT by TheBattman (They exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature...)
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To: Hawk720
Sutton said her family has traditionally made its living farming, but "when it comes over people's lives to farmland, I say save the lives."

BS - in the time it has taken to put this plan together, and will take to implement - the orderly and complete evacuation of the town of Cairo could be carried out. This isn't about lives. It is about playing god with people's live, livelihood, and property. Cairo, Illinois is more important than most of Mississippi County, Missouri (at least one would be led to believe).

17 posted on 05/01/2011 3:15:15 PM PDT by TheBattman (They exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature...)
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To: Hawk720; Second Amendment First; 1stMarylandRegiment; 47carollann; A Citizen Reporter; ...
Missouri ping

Low volume ping list

FReepmail me to be on, or off, this list.

18 posted on 05/01/2011 3:19:21 PM PDT by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: Truth29

State’s rights has nothing to do with it. The river is part of the “waters of the United States” and, along with this levee, under the regulatory control of the USACE.


19 posted on 05/01/2011 3:21:04 PM PDT by stormer
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To: digger48
This has NOTHING to do with this decision:

The racial makeup of Cairo, Illinois: 35.93% White, 61.70% Black or African American

The racial makeup of the Mississippi County: 77.93% White, 20.53% Black or African American.

20 posted on 05/01/2011 3:21:12 PM PDT by TheBattman (They exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature...)
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To: TheBattman

The town didnt build it’s wall high enough.....too bad....that shouldnt give them the right to flood others out to save their own asses...

AND it might not even work....


21 posted on 05/01/2011 3:22:21 PM PDT by Crim (Palin / West '12)
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To: Hawk720
The city of Kayro has 700 of Eric Holder's people.

The farmer's whose land would be flooded are not Eric Holder's people.

Coincidence?

22 posted on 05/01/2011 3:22:49 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Under Islam, there is no separation of church and state. The church IS the state.)
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To: Hawk720
Cairo is an Obama welfare village. They call it a city. The population is 2,831 with 62% black, 35 percent with unmarried female heads of household, and an average household income of $21,000. Can you say Obama voters. There probably are more farmers and workers who will get flooded out in Missouri than there are people in Cairo, but they are Red state voters. It would be cheaper to let Cario be washed off the map than to have Missouri lose this season's farm produce.
23 posted on 05/01/2011 3:43:07 PM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts (The meek shall not inherit the Earth)
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To: BOBWADE

I’m with you. Breach the levee on the Illinois side and flood them.


24 posted on 05/01/2011 3:43:32 PM PDT by willibeaux (de ole Korean War vet age 81)
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To: Hawk720

If I was governor, I’d at least send out the State troopers. It was a mistake to turn to the courts.

The best bet at this point might be to steal a march on the enemy, and blow the Illinois levees.


25 posted on 05/01/2011 3:44:10 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: Hawk720
They want to blow the levee, they have to agree to the damages to be paid in advance.

This bullshit of we flood your land and then we'll pay you whatever the hell we feel like is not Constitutional.

26 posted on 05/01/2011 3:48:27 PM PDT by Rome2000 (OBAMA IS A COMMUNIST CRYPTO-MUSLIM)
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To: TheBattman

Residents of Cairo IL now under mandatory evacuation order.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1R2ADFA_enUS426&sa=X&ei=-OG9Tc29CYTAsAPfzuW-BQ&ved=0CCMQvwUoAQ&q=residents+of+cairo+ill+under+mandatory+evacuation+order&spell=1&biw=1419&bih=597


27 posted on 05/01/2011 3:55:33 PM PDT by Sea Parrot (Being an autodidact, I happily escaped the bureaucratization of intellect)
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To: basil
I sure wish there were some way to divert that water to the Colorado River in Texas—we’re drying up around here—all our rivers and lakes are way down—at least that is the case Deep in the Heart of Texas—around the Austin-San Antonio area.

I'd have more sympathy if the voters hadn't opposed building a new reservoir back in the 90's.

28 posted on 05/01/2011 4:00:45 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: PAR35

We certainly supported it—but were outvoted, obviously.....


29 posted on 05/01/2011 4:02:38 PM PDT by basil (It's time to rid the country of "gun free zones" aka "Killing Fields")
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To: Hawk720
Interesting dilemma, but that crop land has probably been paid back by previous floods not occurring because of same levee. Was this town flooding a known or unknown when levee was first designed and built !+? Is/has town expanded into
flood plain in recent years?

Our town had flood control applied to a scenic creek area that
had flooded before. NO guarantee of preventing ALL future floods - but new apartments built right down almost to edge
of new creek.....mistake.

30 posted on 05/01/2011 4:08:12 PM PDT by urtax$@work (The only kind of memorial is a Burning memorial !)
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To: Rome2000

I don’t know that the C.O.E. will have to pay any damages. It seems like the farmers (or more likely their great-grandfathers) signed an easement that excludes damages for flowing water in the case of the levy being blown. The floodway (rightly or wrongly) was designed with this very situation in mind—take the pressure off of the levees by diverting a part of the flow of the river.

What I’d like to know is if the levees are blown, what happens if the Mississippi decides it likes its new channel better? Isn’t that how rivers change courses—during floods?


31 posted on 05/01/2011 4:10:06 PM PDT by hanamizu
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To: gorush
"I’m going to build a levee but I reserve the right to blow it up when I see fit....would you sign right here?"

Exactly. I'm from Louisiana, near the Morganza Floodway (on the east side of the Mississippi). If the Morganza Floodway is opened, the flood waters of the Mississippi will be diverted to the Atchafalya River and floodplain.

On the west side, past the Atchafalaya Rivier (but still in the Mississippi floodplain), lies the town of Simmesport, completely surrounded by levees. To the west of Simmesport is another levee. "If" the Morganza Floodway isn't enough to keep South Louisiana from flooding, the plan is to blow up that levee, and provide another path to the Atchafalya floodplain for the excess water.

Anybody who built/builds in that area is told up front that they have no recourse if it is necessary to blow that levee......."build at your own risk", but many have.

This appears to be a similar plan and law.

32 posted on 05/01/2011 4:17:04 PM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: PAR35
I'd have more sympathy if the voters hadn't opposed building a new reservoir back in the 90's

Where was this proposed project planned to be? With the flood of Northerners who are acclimated to kentucky blue grass and other water intensive plants, and with their penchant for voting Yes on any government project or bond issue, I wonder if they could do it again?

33 posted on 05/01/2011 4:41:16 PM PDT by The Theophilus (Obama's Key to win 2012: Ban Haloperidol)
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To: Hawk720

This is being presented as a ‘land vs lives’ decision. There are several things wrong with this argument...but I’ll concentrate on one:

They have already evacuated 280 people from the Missouri side...and are asking another 600 to leave.

Cairo has a population of 2,800....it looks like at least 280 people in Missouri will lose their homes (perhaps 880, but I’m not sure).

So its not ‘land vs lives’. Its ‘these people are greater in number, so you draw the short straw today’.

This type of logic can take a long trip down a slippery slope....and frankly it is frightening.

Also, the article is not very clear; but I think it states the Cairo wall is 64 ft, while the river is expected to crest at 61. It should be tall enough....but apparently they are not confident it will actually hold. Whose fault is that?

I remember in 1993, there was alot of debate over whether or not the levee system caused more damage than it prevented, because those not protected by it were subjected to higher flood waters (caused by constraint between levees). I am a strong proponent of levees, and don’t agree with this line of thinking....but are there actually people at the COE who are making the case that levees actually CAUSE problems? This case seems to indicate that.

If the COE is going to start bean counting and playing favorites, I think they should look at productivity. How much federal income tax was derived from the Missouri side, vs Cairo...who wants to bet Cairo’s is a negative number. Wouldn’t it make more sense to keep the fields and destroy

Alas, I hope those barges loaded with explosives don’t simultaneously blow the Missouri levee, and send a wave which destrpys the Cairo side.


34 posted on 05/01/2011 4:43:40 PM PDT by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: basil
We certainly supported it—but were outvoted, obviously.....

Is this the reservoir the LCRA proposed back in the late 90's? It seems to be back on track now.

35 posted on 05/01/2011 4:44:47 PM PDT by The Theophilus (Obama's Key to win 2012: Ban Haloperidol)
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To: TheBattman

It would be interesting to compare those statistics with those of New Orleans and the Mississippi Gulf Coast, circa August, 2005.


36 posted on 05/01/2011 4:46:32 PM PDT by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: The Theophilus

I’m not sure who proposed it.


37 posted on 05/01/2011 4:47:49 PM PDT by basil (It's time to rid the country of "gun free zones" aka "Killing Fields")
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To: The Theophilus

I’ve been trying to remember that - it’s been a long time. My recollection is that it was between San Antonio and the coast, not up in the hill country.


38 posted on 05/01/2011 5:07:23 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: lacrew

>>>>So its not ‘land vs lives’. Its ‘these people are greater in number, so you draw the short straw today’.

Coming soon to a Dr’s office near you if 0bama-care isn’t killed and defunded: Sorry sir... but we can either treat you, or 3 others with the same money spent, so go plan your funeral.


39 posted on 05/01/2011 5:11:01 PM PDT by Keith in Iowa (FR Class of 1998 | TV News is an oxymoron. | MSNBC = Moonbats Spouting Nothing But Crap.)
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To: NVDave

If the fed owns the rights to who gets flooded and who doesn’t we already know where the racist in chief stands. By-By productive farmland.


40 posted on 05/01/2011 5:13:14 PM PDT by eyedigress ((Old storm chaser from the west)?)
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To: digger48

And the MO side is 98% whitey. This is another opportunity to stick it to the white man. I am the barking obama and I approve this message.


41 posted on 05/01/2011 5:23:23 PM PDT by Neoliberalnot ((Read "The Grey Book" for an alternative to corruption in DC))
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To: The Theophilus

Google was my friend.

Applewhite Dam and Reservoir - voted down in 1991 and 1994 after $45 million was spent.


42 posted on 05/01/2011 5:33:51 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: digger48

The Corps of Engineers has been known to build substandard levees ant it was the COE’s fault that the levees failed in New Orleans during Katrina.


43 posted on 05/01/2011 5:45:39 PM PDT by trumandogz
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To: trumandogz

“The Corps of Engineers has been known to build substandard levees ant it was the COE’s fault that the levees failed in New Orleans during Katrina.”

In 1970, Senator Landreua’s father, Moon was voted in as mayor after Victor Schiro (spl) screwed up with Hurricane Camille. Camille did not hit NO either but Mayor Zero flooded the French Quarter because he was afraid of riots in the 9th ward. The black leaders told Zero if he flooded them again, as he had done during Betsyin’65, they would burn the city.

I swam from Canal Street to Jackson Square down Bourbon Street. Moon stole the moon the Feds gave NO to improve the levees and he put the biggest diesel powered pumps 35 ft below the river so they flooded when the Mississippi upstream flood waters broached the levee when it met the high tide backed up waters from the gulf, just like it did with Camille.

The COE has its problems but 100% of NO and LA problems are due to corrupt politicians. The whole state should be flooded and voted out of the USA.

I worked for the Model Cities Program in City Hall in 69 and was there and saw the corruption which is even worse now.


44 posted on 05/01/2011 6:44:50 PM PDT by TxDas (This above all, to thine ownself be true.)
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To: Hawk720

It is an outrage to consider destroying all those productive agricultural Missouri acres (R) to save that cesspool known as Cairo, Ill (D). If there is anything in Cairo worth saving, give a prize to anyone who can show it.


45 posted on 05/01/2011 7:33:47 PM PDT by Lion Den Dan
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To: Hawk720
The place they want to blow the levee is in the center of the New Madrid fault. It's not that the explosives themselves could trigger an earthquake (I think...) but that it would release an enormous amount of very, very heavy water, which just might be enough to trigger a quake.

It's hard to think about that area of the country as being in earthquake danger, but it is. The last times the New Madrid went off, it changed the course of the MIssissippi River - and that was in the early, and then again late, 1800's when almost no one lived there (and certainly when there was no significant architectural buildup).

If it goes now, though, it would be... like... really bad, dude. From Wikipedia: In a report filed in November 2008, The U.S. Federal Emergency Management Agency warned that a serious earthquake in the New Madrid Seismic Zone could result in "the highest economic losses due to a natural disaster in the United States," further predicting "widespread and catastrophic" damage across Alabama, Arkansas, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Mississippi, Missouri and particularly Tennessee, where a 7.7 magnitude quake or greater would cause damage to tens of thousands of structures affecting water distribution, transportation systems, and other vital infrastructure.


46 posted on 05/02/2011 2:27:53 PM PDT by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on its own.)
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