Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Army Move on Atheist Chaplains Could Lead To ‘Church of Evolution’
NY Sun ^ | April 28, 2011 | SHMULEY BOTEACH

Posted on 05/01/2011 3:23:08 PM PDT by neverdem

The report in the New York Times that atheists are looking for official recognition as chaplains in the American military in order to cater to the needs of non-believing servicemen is interesting.

On the one hand, it’s kind of absurd. Atheist chaplains? It’s a contradiction in terms. What are they going to teach? Non-belief? What services will they offer? Non-prayers and sermons on evolution? And what comfort will they offer dying soldiers, G-d forbid (oops! Even that doesn’t work). Will they say, “Game over. You’re going to a place of complete oblivion. Thank you for your service.”?

On the other hand, I am completely opposed to any kind of religious coercion, and why should non-believing military personnel not have someone they can talk to who shares their absence of faith? If you’re an atheist and you’ve returned from Iraq or Afghanistan and you’re finding it difficult, say, to reintegrate to life back home, maybe you don’t want to talk to someone whom you think views life only through the prism of faith. In the same way that it might be uncomfortable for a Jewish soldier to talk about his deepest issues with, say, a Catholic Priest, it is arguably just as uncomfortable for an atheist soldier to talk to the same Priest.

Still it would seem that those who profess an absence of belief can’t really be religious or spiritual chaplains. If you’re an atheist then what you see is what you get. There is no other reality – higher or lower – and the word spiritual is nothing but a crude con.

I am well aware that many of my atheist friends will tell me, “Come on Shmuley. OK, so an atheist ‘chaplain’ might not be able to offer the same comfort...

(Excerpt) Read more at nysun.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: atheism; atheismandstate; chaplains; culturewar; gagdadbob; napl; onecosmosblog; thenogodgod
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-96 next last

1 posted on 05/01/2011 3:23:14 PM PDT by neverdem
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: neverdem
Non compos mentis
2 posted on 05/01/2011 3:25:30 PM PDT by Crim (Palin / West '12)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

They can do what George Carlin proposed and praise “The Big Electron” It doesn’t punish, it doesn’t reward, it doesn’t judge at all. It just is.


3 posted on 05/01/2011 3:27:13 PM PDT by dfwgator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Absolutely - it’s a religion and so CANNOT be supported by the federal government or established as the de facto state religion under the antiestablishment clause of the first amendement.

Atheism is not no religion. They cannot prove there is no God. They are acting out of faith alone.

They are also wrong, but that’s not the point.


4 posted on 05/01/2011 3:29:04 PM PDT by Christian Engineer Mass (25ish Cambridge MA grad student. Many conservative Christians my age out there? __ Click my name)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

I can just hear the atheist prayer now. “Dear Heavenly nobody, thank you for nothing.”


5 posted on 05/01/2011 3:29:44 PM PDT by davisfh (Islam is a mental illness with global social consequences)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Don’t they already have non-religious chaplains?

They call them bartenders.


6 posted on 05/01/2011 3:29:49 PM PDT by RangerM (In Obamanomics, the Japanese Tsunami would be called a stimulus.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

GI to atheist Chaplin, “I don’t believe in God”, atheist Chaplin to GI, “me neither, see you again next week.”


7 posted on 05/01/2011 3:31:01 PM PDT by ansel12 ( JIM DEMINT "I believe [Palins] done more for the Republican Party than anyone since Ronald Reagan")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: davisfh
I can just hear the atheist prayer now. “Dear Heavenly nobody, thank you for nothing.”

They have a “Dial a Prayer” for atheists. It's the same
format, except no one answers.

8 posted on 05/01/2011 3:34:40 PM PDT by CrazyIvan (What's "My Struggle" in Kenyan?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

So, when the “Church of Evolution” is officially organized, does that mean evolution won’t be taught in government classrooms?


9 posted on 05/01/2011 3:36:34 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Hachodesh hazeh lakhem ro'sh chodashim; ri'shon hu' lakhem lechodshey hashanah.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ansel12

The only atheist I ever met were of course democrat. Very few donks in the armed services and even less atheist. This is a BS issue, some one looking for attention


10 posted on 05/01/2011 3:38:24 PM PDT by reefdiver ("Let His day's be few And another takes His office")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
Church of Evolution?

Does this mean evolution is no longer a scientific theory but an act of faith?

11 posted on 05/01/2011 3:42:00 PM PDT by pnh102 (Regarding liberalism, always attribute to malice what you think can be explained by stupidity. - Me)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Ann Coulter nailed it.


12 posted on 05/01/2011 3:46:11 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Blessed Pope John Paul II, pray for us.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Various universities have “humanist chaplains”:

http://www.harvardhumanist.org/

I suppose that the military might have “humanist chaplains”, and learn from the ones at universities how to dispense the meaningless treacle that they probably dispense. But an “atheist chaplain” is the same as a nihilist “chaplain”, which doesn’t work one bit!

If you don’t know, I’m an Orthodox Christian, so you see where I am coming from on this issue. Christ is Risen!


13 posted on 05/01/2011 3:54:11 PM PDT by Honorary Serb (Kosovo is Serbia! Free Srpska! Abolish ICTY!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: xzins

ping


14 posted on 05/01/2011 3:58:05 PM PDT by bigheadfred (Beat me, Bite me...Make Me Write Bad Checks)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

This is so comical that it has to be ordained by God personally. Romans 1:18-32. :)


15 posted on 05/01/2011 3:58:45 PM PDT by pnh102 (Regarding liberalism, always attribute to malice what you think can be explained by stupidity. - Me)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ansel12

“GI to atheist Chaplin, “I don’t believe in God”, atheist Chaplin to GI, “me neither, see you again next week.””...

GI to Chaplin “BUT I don’t DISbelieve, either {as YOU do}! Ergo, I won’t be here next week.”

I doubt that any Agnostic [read DOUBTER] would want a Chaplincy!


16 posted on 05/01/2011 4:05:39 PM PDT by PizzaDriver ( on)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
Interesting companion thread in the Religion Forum: Atheist groups push for military chaplains
17 posted on 05/01/2011 4:07:38 PM PDT by Gamecock (I didn't reach the top of the food chain just to become a vegetarian.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
Once they're in the foxhole, they'd better learn to express fortuitous changes in their alleles VERY rapidly.

(And I guess now that the front lines are integrated, they can *attempt* to propagate the genes: but waiting for the next generation will likely prove a bit problematic.)

Cheers!

18 posted on 05/01/2011 4:07:42 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Honorary Serb

The military already has Unitarian Universalist chaplains.

“Contemporary Unitarian Universalists espouse a pluralist approach to religion, whereby the followers may be atheist, theist, or any point in between.”


19 posted on 05/01/2011 4:12:09 PM PDT by BwanaNdege ("Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: PizzaDriver

Agnostic and atheism are the same in my book, the choice of words only tells me something about how evasive the individual is.


20 posted on 05/01/2011 4:12:44 PM PDT by ansel12 ( JIM DEMINT "I believe [Palins] done more for the Republican Party than anyone since Ronald Reagan")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

>>Still it would seem that those who profess an absence of belief can’t really be religious or spiritual chaplains.

But the nature of that belief isn't for the State to judge - because as history shows...

...who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men, have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavoring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world, and through all time...

--The Virginia Act For Establishing Religious Freedom
--Thomas Jefferson, 1786

Same old Bull manure, different pulpit. 

American faith, and the relation of the Individual to their Creator, is rendered in the hearts and minds of those FREE individuals - not in the state-sanctioned religious plumage of some vestigialy indulgent Roman parrot.

"Grail?  We already got one!"

 

 

21 posted on 05/01/2011 4:26:58 PM PDT by LomanBill (Animals! The DemocRats blew up the windmill with an Acorn!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
They can hire this guy to be their "chaplain".

He's being discussed here (Especially see the "comments" section.)

22 posted on 05/01/2011 4:31:07 PM PDT by Matchett-PI ("Freedom's Just Another Word For Nothing Left to Tax " ~ Gagdad Bob)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RangerM
What are the Post psychologists and psychiatrists for? Oh, that's right--they are for shooting fellow military.

These roving creepy gangs of topsy turvy have just about found everything they can turn upside down. Let them do a little manual labor.

vaudine

23 posted on 05/01/2011 4:32:33 PM PDT by vaudine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
The uniform insignia would be a problem unless there is a symbol for The Void.

And what about agnostics? Their Chaplains could use a ? for their insignia.

24 posted on 05/01/2011 5:03:38 PM PDT by AU72
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

BFL


25 posted on 05/01/2011 5:04:09 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have Ingsoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Christian Engineer Mass

So which is it?
I’ve heard believers repeatedly say that atheism is just as much a belief as religion. Well, then, recognize it as a religion and give its belivers the same privileges as other religions.
Oh, but then believers say it is not a religion. It is non-belief and thus those non-believers should not get the same privileges as believers in religions.

Seems those anti-atheist believers change their story so that they can keep to themselves the privileges such as tax exemptions, days off for their religious holidays, government provided counselors/chaplains.


26 posted on 05/01/2011 5:07:31 PM PDT by Aroostook25
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
The evolution of mammals is only possible with HETEROSEXUAL relationships...

The teaching that matrimony is a sacrament gives to a religious clergy the power to judge the lawfulness of marriages and power of ecclesiastical censure for divorce.

The government of men's external actions by religion, pretending the change of nature in their consecrations cannot be esteemed a work extraordinary, it is no other than a conjuration or incantation, whereby they would have men to believe an alteration of nature that is contrary to the testimony of sight and of all the rest of the senses.

The idea "thou shalt marry and be given in marriage" is corrupt and degenerate, which is an impossible immortality of a kind, but not of the persons of men.

Ecclesiastics would have men believe they are not worthy to be counted amongst them that shall obtain the next world, or absolute resurrection from the dead, as inmates of the world; and to the end only to receive condign punishment for their contumacy of monogamy as opposed to the freedom of the polygamy found in nature.

These supposed "atheists" and their ilk ignore the greater premise and scientific fact that mammals can only evolve heterosexually.

And whether either of the philosophical combatants like it or not, this idea is supported by the book of Genesis and is an absolute law found in nature.

There has never been one case of a hermaphrodite (genotype) mammal ever recorded.

27 posted on 05/01/2011 5:12:42 PM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (Arjuna, why have you have dropped your bow???)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Aroostook25
The evolution of mammals is only possible with HETEROSEXUAL relationships...

The teaching that matrimony is a sacrament gives to a religious clergy the power to judge the lawfulness of marriages and power of ecclesiastical censure for divorce.

The government of men's external actions by religion, pretending the change of nature in their consecrations cannot be esteemed a work extraordinary, it is no other than a conjuration or incantation, whereby they would have men to believe an alteration of nature that is contrary to the testimony of sight and of all the rest of the senses.

The idea "thou shalt marry and be given in marriage" is corrupt and degenerate, which is an impossible immortality of a kind, but not of the persons of men.

Ecclesiastics would have men believe they are not worthy to be counted amongst them that shall obtain the next world, or absolute resurrection from the dead, as inmates of the world; and to the end only to receive condign punishment for their contumacy of monogamy as opposed to the freedom of the polygamy found in nature.

These supposed "atheists" and their ilk ignore the greater premise and scientific fact that mammals can only evolve heterosexually because they are religious faggots (a term I invented exclusively for them.)

And whether either of the philosophical combatants like it or not, this idea is supported by the book of Genesis and is an absolute law found in nature.

There has never been one case of a hermaphrodite (genotype) mammal ever recorded.

28 posted on 05/01/2011 5:15:18 PM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (Arjuna, why have you have dropped your bow???)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Slowly we move to a total disregard for spirtual development in order to facilitate worship of our government mother. obama is yo daddy. I say this in jest, but look at the models—see Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot—all eyes must seek the comfort of the collective we call government. Just as ancient Rome worshiped the emperor, today’s progressive politicians seek the same path.


29 posted on 05/01/2011 5:18:10 PM PDT by Neoliberalnot ((Read "The Grey Book" for an alternative to corruption in DC))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Aroostook25

“the same privileges as believers in religions”

what privileges?


30 posted on 05/01/2011 5:23:04 PM PDT by Christian Engineer Mass (25ish Cambridge MA grad student. Many conservative Christians my age out there? __ Click my name)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
I wonder what George Washington would say about such wicked foolishness?...

"The General is sorry to be informed that the foolish, and wicked practice, of profane cursing and swearing (a Vice heretofore little known in an American Army) is growing into fashion; he hopes the officers will, by example, as well as influence, endeavour to check it, and that both they, and the men will reflect, that we can have little hopes of the blessing of Heaven on our Arms, if we insult it by our impiety, and folly;...." - George Washington, Head Quarters, New York, August 3rd 1776

31 posted on 05/01/2011 5:28:15 PM PDT by Gritty (Would you condemn me to justify yourself? - God to Job, Job 41:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Religious functions aside, chaplains do useful things like counseling, providing help in personal emergencies and bypassing the chain of command on those occasions when it’s more the problem than the solution. Think ‘military ombudsman’ and you won’t be too far wrong. So the idea of an atheist chaplain isn’t all that ridiculous.


32 posted on 05/01/2011 5:31:47 PM PDT by Grut
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

The Church of Non-Existence.


33 posted on 05/01/2011 5:37:30 PM PDT by reg45
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ansel12
Agnosticism says that neither the existence nor the non-existence of God can be proven.

Atheism says that the non- existence of God can be proven.

That is a significant difference.

34 posted on 05/01/2011 5:43:19 PM PDT by reg45
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Zionist Conspirator
"So, when the “Church of Evolution” is officially organized, does that mean evolution won’t be taught in government classrooms?"

LOL!!

We demand "Separation of Atheism and State!!!"<

35 posted on 05/01/2011 5:51:22 PM PDT by cookcounty (Eric Holder, Head of the Department of JUST-US.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

“Still it would seem that those who profess an absence of belief can’t really be religious or spiritual chaplains”

Psychologists. Considering the vast number of vets returning from Iraq and Afghanistan with PTSD, I think it appropriate that more and more shrinks are stationed forward with the troops.


36 posted on 05/01/2011 5:54:51 PM PDT by KantianBurke (Hey Tea Party folks - what about Social Security reform?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock

Thanks for the link.


37 posted on 05/01/2011 6:02:04 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Honorary Serb

He has risen indeed! Alleluia!


38 posted on 05/01/2011 6:15:32 PM PDT by GAB-1955 (I write books, love my wife, serve my nation, and believe in the Resurrection.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: reg45
Not really, at the street level it is just two atheists arguing.
39 posted on 05/01/2011 6:28:13 PM PDT by ansel12 ( JIM DEMINT "I believe [Palins] done more for the Republican Party than anyone since Ronald Reagan")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Christian Engineer Mass

You are right.


40 posted on 05/01/2011 6:52:18 PM PDT by Lexinom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Aroostook25
It is a religion. There's no such thing as "non-belief" as everyone believes in something. One's "deity" (though he may not admit it) can be himself. It is man's natural proclivity in fact, witness our pride.

If you want it recognized as a religion, with both the privileges - and restrictions (i.e. no federal money for teaching what amounts to religious dogma) accompanying that... I have no problem with it. People are free agents and can believe whatever they wish.

41 posted on 05/01/2011 6:56:30 PM PDT by Lexinom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Christian Engineer Mass

“Atheism is not no religion.”

Grammar aside, I believe a court has said atheism is = to a religion.


42 posted on 05/01/2011 7:06:09 PM PDT by chooseascreennamepat (I have a liberal arts degree, do you want fries with that?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Honorary Serb
Christ is Risen!

Yes indeed!


Built with SUSE Studio

If you can't appreciate the pure beauty of the violin after hearing this, something's wrong with your ears.

43 posted on 05/01/2011 7:06:30 PM PDT by rdb3 (Knowledge without God only produces an intellectual barbarian.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
On the other hand, I am completely opposed to any kind of religious coercion, and why should non-believing military personnel not have someone they can talk to who shares their absence of faith?

They call them psychologists.... like the one who slaughtered all those people at Ft. Hood.

44 posted on 05/01/2011 7:44:37 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GeronL
Actually, they call the one who slaughtered all those people at Ft. Hood a muslim!!!!
45 posted on 05/01/2011 8:45:17 PM PDT by Honorary Serb (Kosovo is Serbia! Free Srpska! Abolish ICTY!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

For many years there has been a Dial-A-Prayer for atheists. You call it and no one answers.


46 posted on 05/01/2011 9:06:03 PM PDT by One_who_hopes_to_know
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Well, well. Does this mean that there will now be atheists in foxholes?


47 posted on 05/01/2011 9:25:02 PM PDT by miele man
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pnh102

Amen!


48 posted on 05/01/2011 9:30:16 PM PDT by miele man
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Christian Engineer Mass
“the same privileges as believers in religions”

what privileges?

See my previous post: Tax exemptions on church property which includes everything from the actual churches to houses and resorts in the mountains.

49 posted on 05/01/2011 10:02:44 PM PDT by Aroostook25
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Pingout tomorrow.


50 posted on 05/01/2011 10:06:11 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-96 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson