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Online cigarette buyers hit with taxes [PA]
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette ^ | 5 May, 2011 | Bill Toland,

Posted on 05/04/2011 11:47:53 PM PDT by brityank

Online cigarette buyers hit with taxes

She lost her job. She lost her husband. She lost her home. And that's when the state Department of Revenue delivered yet another blow, a $9,876 lien on Judy Christy's assets for cigarettes she had bought and smoked years ago.

Ms. Christy, of Butler County, was one of tens of thousands of Pennsylvanians caught up in the state's ongoing sweep of people who bought cigarettes by the carton online and failed to pay the state's sales and excise taxes.

Similar sweeps have been carried out in other states.
* * * * * *
As a result of a federal law that requires cigarette vendors to share buyer information with the states, Pennsylvania's Revenue Department learned that Ms. Christy had purchased 232 cartons of cigarettes online between April 2005 and October 2007. The excise and sales taxes she owed on those cartons, plus interest, was $3,928.90.

She worked out a payment plan with the state: a $395 down payment in June 2008, then $99 a month after that. She paid until the following spring, which is when she lost her job at Farmers National Bank, she said. Five months later, her husband died, and she moved out of her husband's home ...
* * * * * *
What she owed on the original tax debt, after making nine months of payments, was roughly $2,300 in back taxes. But the state also included in its claim about $7,000 in legal fees, penalties and interest, according to Ms. Christy.

"I don't have an issue paying them what I owe them," she said. "But where do they get off hitting me for $7,000 in legal fees for a legal filing that costs $125, tops?"


(Excerpt) Read more at post-gazette.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: cigarette; cigarettetaxes; legalfees; pa
Here's another exhibit of statutory laws making criminals of a valid common law activity: the Jenkins Act, a 62-year-old federal law originally written to target cross-state cigarette smugglers, but used in recent years to combat online cigarette vendors.

How long before they check my water usage to see I cut out the stupid baffles in my toilet? The electric company is already trying to move me to a "smart meter" to govern my use instead of adding more generation.

Ain't freedom great?

1 posted on 05/04/2011 11:47:58 PM PDT by brityank
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To: brityank

The Marxists have clearly taken over; it’s all over but the shouting.

America’s commissars are spending more and more to purchase votes, and Mr. and Mrs. America are being forced to pick up the tab.


2 posted on 05/04/2011 11:52:19 PM PDT by Jack Hammer (e)
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To: brityank

Ain’t freedom great?

She totally had the freedom to purchase her cigarettes on line or go to the corner store. She freely purchased on line. Now she just has to pay the taxes. Her freedoms were not stopped.


3 posted on 05/04/2011 11:54:49 PM PDT by napscoordinator
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To: Tribune7; Kid Shelleen

Ping.

It’s one thing to go after dealers and those reselling for gain, but to target personal use is in my view totalitarian and not in keeping with our freedoms. I admit I too was a criminal - I used to buy my smokes in Delaware and saved about sixty/seventy cents a pack back ten years ago before I quit. Hey I bought my booze in Maryland - oooooh!


4 posted on 05/04/2011 11:56:42 PM PDT by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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To: brityank
"Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."
5 posted on 05/04/2011 11:59:50 PM PDT by thecabal (The Golden Rule: He who has the gold, makes the rules.)
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To: napscoordinator

She did pay any taxes - just as I did in Delaware when I bought them. Sorry that you seem to think your rulers can make you pay for something they had no involvement with.


6 posted on 05/05/2011 12:00:11 AM PDT by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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To: brityank
Ms. Christy had purchased 232 cartons of cigarettes online between April 2005 and October 2007.

Well with that type of cigarette usage, she won't have to worry about this bill much longer. The cancer should be kicking in soon. When Fast Eddie Rendall was blowing through cash faster than we could bring it in, he started shaking the trees for money. There were all types of these "Stop The Tax Cheats" BS maneuvers done. If I were her, I would tell the state to go to hell and not pay them. She is flat broke so she is judgment proof.

7 posted on 05/05/2011 12:03:45 AM PDT by Lazlo in PA (Now living in a newly minted Red State.)
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To: thecabal
“When you see that trading is done,
not by consent, but by compulsion –
When you see that in order to produce,
you need permission from men who produce nothing –
When you see that money is flowing to those who deal,
not in goods, but in favors –
When you see that men get richer by graft and pull than by hard work,
and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you –
When you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming self-sacrifice –
You may know your society is doomed.”


Atlas Shrugged
          Ayn Rand

8 posted on 05/05/2011 12:05:54 AM PDT by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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To: napscoordinator

>>She freely purchased on line. Now she just has to pay the taxes. Her freedoms were not stopped.<<

Do you buy anything online or mail-order? Do you pay your state’s taxes on those purchases?

Are you perfect? Do you think the punishment fit the crime?

You must be young and still trust government as the high moral standard.


9 posted on 05/05/2011 12:06:47 AM PDT by RobRoy (The US today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: brityank

That quote is so applicable right now, it makes my heart ache.


10 posted on 05/05/2011 12:08:42 AM PDT by thecabal (The Golden Rule: He who has the gold, makes the rules.)
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To: brityank

Sorry that you seem to think your rulers can make you pay for something they had no involvement with.

Read your first sentence on your post.....non English for sure. Anyway, you don’t think that Pennsylvania had anything to do with this. Did they magically get to her home? Did the truck not drive on Pennsylvania roads during delivery? Did they come by the Postal System? Did Pennsylvanians handle the boxes at all? You see Pennsylvania DEFINITELY had something to do with the process.


11 posted on 05/05/2011 12:09:58 AM PDT by napscoordinator
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To: Lazlo in PA
Ms. Christy had purchased 232 cartons of cigarettes online between April 2005 and October 2007.

Maybe she was reselling them down at the bowling alley.

12 posted on 05/05/2011 12:10:36 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: brityank

Heh, I have family that always stops in California to load up on alcohol when they are passing through so they can stock up. With our own government-run booze cartel, our prices in OR are close to double that in CA. I should tell them to start paying in cash just to be sure to leave zero paper trail.


13 posted on 05/05/2011 12:12:28 AM PDT by thecabal (The Golden Rule: He who has the gold, makes the rules.)
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To: napscoordinator; brityank
She totally had the freedom to purchase her cigarettes on line or go to the corner store. She freely purchased on line. Now she just has to pay the taxes. Her freedoms were not stopped.

Horse sh**! If she drove to another state and bought the cigs her home state couldn't tax her, there should be no tax from your home state when you buy online either, no matter what the product. This is just another way for the state to rip the sh** out of their law abiding citizens, we are all taxed to much already, we need to put a stop to this type of BS.

Instead, we have brain dead a**hats such as you cheering for the state.

14 posted on 05/05/2011 1:00:15 AM PDT by calex59
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To: calex59
If she drove to another state and bought the cigs her home state couldn't tax her,..

Yes they could or would, there have been both booze and cigarette patrols on I-83 at the PA/MD line and people have been caught, not truckloads but a few bottles from Maryland or a few cartons from Virginia for personal use. They stopped the patrols for the most part because they weren't getting good returns and price differences started to level out..

15 posted on 05/05/2011 1:15:14 AM PDT by this_ol_patriot (Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner)
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To: calex59

Instead, we have brain dead a**hats such as you cheering for the state.

I am not cheering the state. I am just being factual and not being emotional as yourself.


16 posted on 05/05/2011 1:20:20 AM PDT by napscoordinator
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To: brityank

democrats in action


17 posted on 05/05/2011 1:49:29 AM PDT by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: North Coast Conservative

Pinging - Of possible interest?


18 posted on 05/05/2011 1:51:58 AM PDT by Las Vegas Dave (“Getting freepers to all agree is like herding cats!”)
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To: napscoordinator
She totally had the freedom to purchase her cigarettes on line or go to the corner store. She freely purchased on line. Now she just has to pay the taxes. Her freedoms were not stopped.

True, provided the government uses tax money to protect her natural rights. Unfortunately, the government steals the money to buy trinkets for others. I guess the slaves were free. They just had to follow the law and work every day at their master's plantation.

19 posted on 05/05/2011 4:03:20 AM PDT by ALPAPilot
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To: Lazlo in PA

That’s roughly 5 (five) packs a day. She must have a wonderful speaking voice.


20 posted on 05/05/2011 4:15:40 AM PDT by Freedom4US
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To: brityank

The government has become the enemy of the people.


21 posted on 05/05/2011 4:32:13 AM PDT by Flavious_Maximus
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To: brityank

When I still smoked I bought mine online and once they hit New Jersey with the back tax thing I knew it was a matter of time over here in PA.

Good thing for me is, I only smoked a pack a day...Not 5 or whatever her number comes up to.

Price was the main reason I quit too, but that don’t mean I’m paying back taxes without a fuss.


22 posted on 05/05/2011 4:40:52 AM PDT by BallyBill (WARNING:Taking me serious could cause stress related illness.)
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To: brityank

She lost her job and home but can afford to smoke?


23 posted on 05/05/2011 4:58:00 AM PDT by bikerman (Where Has My America Gone?)
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To: brityank
Next Obama will tax us for flatulence.
24 posted on 05/05/2011 5:04:51 AM PDT by Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid! (Allen West 2012 Make it happen!)
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To: Lancey Howard
If my math is right.

30 months / 232 cartons = 7.7333... cartons per month

7.3333... / 30 days = 0.25777 cartons per day.

0.25777 cartons * 20 packs/carton = 5 packs a day.

Pretty hard to smoke that much by yourself.

25 posted on 05/05/2011 5:13:52 AM PDT by McGruff (When it comes to Obama's birth certificate. Trust, but verify.)
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To: brityank
Sorry that you seem to think your rulers can make you pay for something they had no involvement with.

For the record, the "rulers" make more profit on the sale of just about anything than the stockholders of the company that produced whatever was sold. It's called sales tax. The only investment a State has to make is in a few police and a bunch of prisons.

ML/NJ

26 posted on 05/05/2011 5:38:06 AM PDT by ml/nj
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To: napscoordinator
United States Constitution: Article 1 Section 10:
No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws;

27 posted on 05/05/2011 5:44:14 AM PDT by ml/nj
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To: McGruff
130 weeks - 232 cartons.

Her husband was still alive during this time and was most probably a smoker also.

Divide the 232 by 2 (assuming 2 smokers in the family) and that is 116 cartons per person for those 130 weeks.

That is less than 1 carton per person per week.

P.S. Your math goes off when you figure 20 packs per carton - there are only 10.

28 posted on 05/05/2011 5:51:53 AM PDT by Abby4116
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To: Owl_Eagle; brityank; Physicist; WhyisaTexasgirlinPA; GOPJ; abner; baseballmom; Mo1; Ciexyz; ...

ping


29 posted on 05/05/2011 6:11:24 AM PDT by Tribune7 (We're flat broke, but he thinks these solar shingles and really fast trains will magically save us.)
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To: napscoordinator; brityank
Anyway, you don’t think that Pennsylvania had anything to do with this.

Not a thing.

Did the truck not drive on Pennsylvania roads during delivery?

Roads that are already paid for by the trucking license fees and gasoline taxes.

Did they come by the Postal System?

Since when do the states have the authority to tax federal government agencies (or pseudo agencies in this case)?

Did Pennsylvanians handle the boxes at all?

Any tax on this labor (assuming for the moment that it should be taxed) would show up in the income tax on those laborers wages.

You see Pennsylvania DEFINITELY had something to do with the process.

PA had nothing to do with it. She bought them out of state just as surely as if she had driven out of state to pick themn up herself.

30 posted on 05/05/2011 6:17:11 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: John O

You make some very good points.


31 posted on 05/05/2011 6:26:32 AM PDT by napscoordinator
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To: calex59
Instead, we have brain dead a**hats such as you cheering for the state.

Sadly, you'll find lots of cheerleaders for the police state here.

32 posted on 05/05/2011 6:51:58 AM PDT by zeugma (The only thing in the social security trust fund is your children and grandchildren's sweat.)
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To: napscoordinator

Thank You


33 posted on 05/05/2011 7:02:06 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: this_ol_patriot; calex59
Yes they could or would, there have been both booze and cigarette patrols on I-83 at the PA/MD line and people have been caught...

Yes. I remember those things down by the Delaware border coming up to Philly on I-95. I used to go out of my way to hit liqueur stores that were past the one closest to the PA border because I got the impression that they had someone checking plates at the one most convenient to the state line. There is nothing a state won't do if they think they are being cheated a nickle. PA is no different.

34 posted on 05/05/2011 8:34:16 AM PDT by Lazlo in PA (Now living in a newly minted Red State.)
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To: napscoordinator; RobRoy

People come to Texas from Louisiana for our tax free weekends; we drive across state or county lines to pay less for gas, etc. 4th of July city folks buy fireworks in the county. Why do people always seem to get their tricots in a bind when we are talking about someone else wanting to buy cigarettes? IMO, people should be able to buy what they want to buy and if they can get it at less cost somewhere else, then go for it. I agree with RobRoy!


35 posted on 05/05/2011 8:53:25 AM PDT by Grams A (The Sun will rise in the East in the morning and God is still on his throne.)
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To: ALPAPilot

>>I guess the slaves were free. They just had to follow the law and work every day at their master’s plantation.<<

I believe the modern word for “slave” is “employee”. And as with slaves throughout history, some had benign slave masters and others suffered through more malevolent masters.


36 posted on 05/05/2011 10:02:02 AM PDT by RobRoy (The US today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: McGruff

>>0.25777 cartons * 20 packs/carton = 5 packs a day.

Pretty hard to smoke that much by yourself.<

Usually what happens is that a group of people will get together and pool their money. Then one person orders or drives to the state to pick up the goods. However, if you drive there, they can’t charge back taxes. The state has to be able to prove you actually USED them in their state.

We are flying to California for a graduation this weekend. We’ll bring a suitcase with a couple of towels in it and fill it with booze, and bring it back full. We do this pretty much every time we fly to Chicago. My favorite tequila is $46 in Seattle, $27 in Chicago and $20 in California. And it is not so much the money as the principle. It is a form of going Galt, at least to me.


37 posted on 05/05/2011 10:24:37 AM PDT by RobRoy (The US today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: Flavious_Maximus

>>The government has become the enemy of the people.<<

I discovered that in 1997 when I sat through a lot of family court in prep for my own divorce. My perception of the US fundamentally changed that year. It is much worse now. It is dangerously close to how the Soviet Union was described to me in grade school and Jr High in the 60’s.


38 posted on 05/05/2011 10:31:27 AM PDT by RobRoy (The US today: Revelation 18:4)
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