Skip to comments.Death of Osama bin Laden: Phone call pointed U.S. to compound — and to ‘the pacer’
Posted on 05/07/2011 1:13:53 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
It seemed an innocuous, catch-up phone call. Last year Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti, the pseudonym for a Pakistani known to U.S. intelligence as the main courier for Osama bin Laden, took a call from an old friend.
Where have you been? inquired the friend. Weve missed you. Whats going on in your life? And what are you doing now?
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
In English no less.
If Bob Woodward wants to relive his Watergate glory days he needs to find out who barry really is.
Has anyone discussed in any kind of detail the nature of the helicopter malfunction? That seems like kind of a big big deal despite the mission’s success. That helicopter shouldn’t have failed.
Yeah, no kidding. Where've you been, Woodstein?
If Obozo was a Republican Supreme Court nominee, Woodstein would have been all over his citizenship issue like flies on dung.
The photos seem to indicate the tail section was sheared by the wall. Impossible to guess if damage/malfunction or pilot error got it to that point. By the way, helicopters are notorious for failing at the worst of times. Just ask a helicopter pilot.
I once had the opportunity to work with a “skunk works” group doing competitive analysis. Using commercially available aerial photographs, and with their assistance, I was able to determine the number of people employed, plant capacity, what was being produced,etc. That was 30 years ago.
And today, the CIA can’t tell the difference between a 5’8” man and a 6’8” man? How about the length of his shadow and simple trigonometry?
"The friend replied, May God facilitate."
Relief for the armchair generals in revelation that the US Abbottabad safe house was mission purposed and not a longterm asset.
I saw an Aviation Week article being e-mailed around that said that it wasn't mechanical, or even pilot error really. It was supposedly a thermal anomaly right above the compound; for some reason the air above the compound (because it's hardpacked dirt?) was 15O F warmer than ambient temps all around the area, and the helicopter abruptly lost lift when they flew into it and the pilot couldn't get it back in time before they pancaked.
Why do you suppose they didn’t destroy the tail section? It looked pretty much intact to me.
And I agree. It looks like the pilot landed on the wall.
I read that the high walls blocked air circulation, created a vortex or something. Makes sense to me with little that I know, but they would not admit the truth if it was a pilot error or mechanical any way.
Not sure the pilot knew there were 7 or 8 foot tall vinyard tressels made of 1” or larger aluminum pipes in the area of compound he tried to abort land on, and it was a split second decision.
ON a aviation forum a BH pilot mentioned it is possible for the downwash on the BH to create voids at that altitude, and the modified BH was already laden with 500 to 1000 pounds of additional weight in the experimental design config, plus was at full load capacity with the SEALs team.
This pilot said looked like the BH crashed nose down and the tail slammed onto the wall after the blades hit the ground... due the the body being exceedingly close to the outer wall that split the BH apart, and the angle of separation on the tail section. Just a rumor 3rd hand, but sounded legit and the this pilot/forum poster had thousands of posts and no one called him out on it.
I’m thinking that the tail was on the outside of the wall, and the SEALS were on the inside.
Interesting on the hardpacked dirt with different thermal properties. Another thread said they had a full-scale mock-up to train on, and one of the other posters felt that with all of that training under the “exact” conditions they would know about the wind effects, etc.
I guess next time they will try to mimic the soil conditions as well if this report is true.
I still wonder if it wasn’t shot down by an AK47 or an RPG. But that would be bad press when it comes time to sell these things or renew our budget for more of these fancy stealth helicopters.
Regardless, amazing how the pilot got it down okay and they completed the mission.
And nobody heard that? A helo crash and no one called 911?
I have seen hundreds of Blackhawks landing and taking off under various conditions. I have never seen one fail like this. I’m not interested in blaming a pilot or a crew but it seems like something we need to learn from. Knowing our military, I’m sure they are in the process of learning from this; however, I think it’s definitely worth mentioning that this isn’t the first time a helicopter has malfunctioned on a super critical mission like this. As such, it needs to be a topic of discussion IMHO.
A SEAL could be over a 12ft wall in a second. I’m thinking they may have had company. Interrupted?
The locals heard it and were tweeting and talking about it on Facebook,
here’s a real time twitter report of the raid:
Yes - that’s what I was thinking, what with the Pak military base just up the road. Although lob a few grenades over the wall might have helped damage it a bit.
I’ll have to go through that local guy’s tweets again. When he only talked about explosions I figured he was across town and that is why he didn’t hear the 20-minute fire-fight.
Of course now we learn that there never was a “fire-fight”. So maybe this guy WAS fairly close by. I recall he mentioned something about someone shooting down a UFO with an RPG or some such. He was only half-way joking about the “UFO” - he didn’t know if it was a plane, copter, etc. at the time!
He seems to think it was shot down. But he is just speculating.
Reeeach out! Reach out and touch someone!
Yes just read it and had the same impression.
Also, he said it was a ground shaking window shaking crash. With a military base right up the road, that had to have drawn attention.
How did they last 40mins? That’s a long time in a neighborhood after announcing your presence with a crash. I don’t know?
It just doesn’t add up. You know, I’m just going to say this, pulling it out of the air.
From what I have read it seems likely that they got caught and the Pakis let them go. The Pakis figured out what was up but decided not to confront the US.
It could have gone much worse real fast. I’ll bet Obama was on the phone while it was going on trying to keep things calm. JMHO
This is pretty much a no brainer and a done deal and I would wager my meager life savings that as we speak, some of Dear Leader's Holly-Weird buds are drafting a film script for the movie.
Moreover, another prognostication which takes little foresight considering how well we've come to know this Admin and its far left sycophants is that this movie will "glorify" the "Gusty" Community Agitator in Least AND, will premier sometimes in Sept/Oct of next year, just in times to help boost the Messiah's advantage by 2 or 3 points which is hugh in a Presidential election.
Last but not least, having worked in USAF Intel (both over and covert) I'm torn about how much info is being disseminated.
I hope it is designed to flush out the Leadership or for some other reason, but otherwise there has from the Get go, wayyyy to much released about this mission as the control freak, moonbats at the WH--who were so determined to milk every drop of glory and credit for O'Bummer--inadvertently (IMHO) leaked info which could benefit our enemies.
“Yes - thats what I was thinking, what with the Pak military base just up the road. Although lob a few grenades over the wall might have helped damage it a bit.”
Probably didn’t want to waste them (never know what’s on the way back) but the other Blackhwak might have had some missiles to blow this one to pieces
Oh, Bob Woodward, he has so much credibility.
The morning after the announcement Gen. McCaffrey was on one of the morning shows stating that the helicopter had taken ground fire.
shoot, thirty years ago, I read where a U2 could tell who was on the mound at Dodger stadium.....from 70000 feet...
Too many folks knew about the intelligence, so the political risk was if Obama did NOT launch the mission. It would be Obama's Tora Bora moment.
It’s possible to get a helicopter hovering close to the ground into a situation where it can’t maintain lift (it’s called vortex ring state) if it’s already descending—basically the blades get into air disturbed from their own downwash and that kills the lift. Pilots are trained to avoid it, but if that aforementioned temperature anomaly caused the Blackhawk (if that’s what it was) to start descending while hovering to fast-rope the team down, maybe that’s what happened. Or it could be something as simple as the helicopter settled and hit an obstruction, or snagged the tail on that high wall. We may never know, at least until the eventual book comes out years down the road.
It seems to me I read something about the chopper losing lift as it lowered to the compound. I’m not a pilot but it seems it might have had something to do with the compounds walls and the lack of air to the rotors???
A pilot would know.
Maybe they brought this guy:
Typical Obambi mindset: Everything in the country in his. He occasionally "donates" some to the military. Just as he sometimes "pays some of it to the rich" in the form of tax cuts.
Preliminary evidence suggests that Mr. Panetta (who is a representative of Team Clinton) and the national security community may not be entirely happy with Mr. Obama.
I wonder if DEVGRU has a plan for THIS secure compound:
It is absolutely a crime how they hide the islamic talk.
“This is pretty much a no brainer and a done deal and I would wager my meager life savings that as we speak, some of Dear Leader’s Holly-Weird buds are drafting a film script for the movie.”
Yep. With Obama riding around in a tank, waving a machine gun.
And a release date of, say, October, 2012.
While i doubt that the terrorists factions involved haven't suspected out full intelligence capabilities for years (their growing body count proves this) I can see no reason for confirming it in print.
Our next serious terrorist target has learned several things to make his life safer. That's isn't a good thing.
As for the SEALs not talking about the mission, that's a mater of self-peservation. They are not only concerned about their and their family's safety from terrorist retribution but also retribution from their own government, the UN, and other august international bodies. Enough said.
I saw a report where the interview ee said the helicopter got down in the high walled compound and lost lift. The wall height and confined space apparently caused the fall
What a coincidence B HO releases his birth certificate and people start to find problems with it, and all of a sudden we get U.B.L. and the whole birth certificate story goes away.
I love how some Obamaite wants the “movie” to start in 2010. Not that any of these characters and/or info were secured during the Booosh years.
I’m glad the Seals got Obama...but I’m soooo tired of hearing about it.
So now there IS video. What happened to the 20-25 minute blackout?
Woodward's article is filled with half truths that are designed to lead thinking toward Obama bravery rather than his characteristic passivity.
Panetta and Clinton had a lot to lose if Obama was passing on the opportunity.
Wonder if any in the press knew what the CIA knew ten days ago?
Wait a mintue. I thought there wasn’t a video feed.
From the article:
“In the White House Situation Room on Sunday night, the president and his national security team watched a soundless video feed of the raid.
When bin Ladens corpse was laid out, one of the Navy SEALs was asked to stretch out next to it to compare heights. The SEAL was 6 feet tall. The body was several inches taller.
After the information was relayed to Obama, he turned to his advisers and said: We donated a $60 million helicopter to this operation. Could we not afford to buy a tape measure?
Other details I had not heard before:
Power and phone service went down in the neighborhood as the raid began.
Inside the compound the SEALS busted a door open and found it a dead end. Animation showed it as being bricked up. They thought it might be booby trapped.
Bin Laden had money sewn into his clothes (read this here today also).
No one thought to bring a tape measure so that's why the SEAL laid down to compare height to Bin Laden.
Seems to me that if the shooter shot him it was based on a good ID. So tag and bag. When the doc works out the “cause of death” he is supposed to get all those vital signs anyway! s/off
I never could figure out how anyone, and I mean anyone could believe that the moon landings were all a lie and shot on a Hollywood sound lot. After this past week and Team O’s brilliant explanation of what happen, when and to whom, I am beginning to think twice!!
15oF translates to 3% less dense air (not to mention the warmer air probably would have caused an updraft).
Are helicopters that sensitive to air density? Wonder how close it was to its weight limit?