Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Why democracy is failing America
Natural News ^ | Tuesday, May 10, 2011 | Mike Adams

Posted on 05/10/2011 4:00:00 AM PDT by Scythian

Democracy is the worst form of government, Sir Winston Churchill once said... except for every other form of government. In other words, all forms of government are atrociously bad, and democracy may merely be the least bad of the bunch. I certainly wouldn't want to live under a dictatorship, socialism or communism. So I like the idea of democracy, and I wish it would work better for America. But it isn't working. That much is clear. Democracy is failing America, and we can't just blame it on the politicians and the corporations. People actually vote for their own self-destruction by electing professional liars to represent them.

That's where this article begins.

Why democracy isn't working for America

At its core, the democratic process of electing representatives is a popularity contest. The voters inevitably end up supporting whichever lawmakers offer the best handouts right now, regardless of the long-term consequences to the nation. Voting, in other words, is a contest based on short-term rewards rather than long-term vision. Not surprisingly, when the voters go to the polls, they tend to elect the person who promises them the most right now.

Now, it's crucial to recognize this simple economic fact: No government can offer something to one person without first taking it from another. So the more handouts, entitlements and benefits any government offers, the more it must confiscate from others in order to meet its "obligations" to the voters.

This creates a downward spiral of entitlements leading to inescapable debt. Because sooner or later, governments always run out of other people's money.

But that doesn't stop the voting action which still boils down to a popularity contest to decide the leader who tells the best lies. When given a choice between a realistic candidate who says America is deep in debt (Ron Paul) and a fantasy-land candidate who says there's nothing to worry about (almost everybody else), most voters will choose the fantasy candidate... especially if it means more money in their pockets.

The right course of action is too unpopular

What's desperately lacking in all this, of course, is the far more important truth that when a nation is in financial trouble (and environmental trouble, health care trouble, etc.), only tough decisions will ever turn it around. And those tough decisions are, by definition, unpopular decisions.

Huh? We have to consume less? Receive fewer benefits? Pay higher taxes? Make the wealthy corporations pay their fair share? Say it isn't so...

Not surprisingly, in a free and open democracy, tough, unpopular decisions will almost never be supported by the majority of voters. That's because most people are simply selfish. They are far more concerned about their own immediate benefits than the future they might be handing down to their children or grandchildren. So there is zero willingness to make the tough decisions necessary to save the country. The voters, in other words, tend to vote out of their own short-term interests rather than the long-term viability of the nation as a whole.

That's why democracy is failing America. And that's partly why America is headed toward a near-certain collapse in the not-too-distant future. A President who tells the truth and says we have to cut government by 80% to balance the budget is simply not electable. Too many people have their hands in the cookie jar. Too many voters depend on the government to send them checks, and far too many wealthy corporations are entirely dependent on government enforcement of monopolies and subsidies for their own survival. Big Pharma, for example, would shrink by at least 90% if not for the government's support of the industry.

So electing a President who will actually halt the financial bleeding of America will never happen.

Sure, it might happen in a nation with a highly educated population. That's why education is so important to the long-term survival of any nation. But America isn't a highly-educated nation. Probably half of America's high school graduates can't do basic math. So the concept of compounded interest on the national debt is simply beyond their understanding and doesn't seem real to them. They are short-term consumers because that's the way they've been trained. That's the way they think. That's the way they calculate. And that's the way they vote.

Think about it: Your average consumer will spend $4 on a pack of two AA batteries when they could spend $10 and get 8 AA batteries of the exact same brand and capacity. To most consumers, $4 is cheaper than $10, so they just spend the $4 and don't consider the cost per battery. People don't do the math! And when they vote, they don't think it through. They vote based on popularity, not rational thought.

As a result, America today is a cesspool of lawmakers, Presidents and bureaucrats who merely weave elaborate lies to feed the public for as long as they can get away with it. There is hardly a shred of truth left in anything coming out of Washington D.C. these days. We are so far beyond the point of actually fixing the problems and turning this country around that most of the intelligent people are now focused on getting ready to "ride out the reset."

The dictatorship we definitely don't want

At this point, the only real way to save America's future is to force a set of tough decisions upon the people by way of a strong dictatorship -- and I am absolutely opposed to such a thing because it would destroy the few remaining freedoms we still enjoy today.

You could, of course, try to educate the populace about freedom, fiscal responsibility and the value of long-term strategic thinking rather than short-term rewards, but that would require an entire cultural shift spanning at least two generations. Because let's face it, Americans have been trained in the philosophy of "instant gratification" for at least two generations. It's all about having more and having it now. You can't reverse that kind of thinking overnight. You can't reverse instant gratification thinking instantly, in other words.

The end result will be collapse

So what are we left with? There's no way out of this except collapse. Michael Ruppert gets it (www.collapsenet.com). Gerald Celente gets it (www.TrendsResearch.com) . Alex Jones gets it (www.InfoWars.com). But most people don't get it.

In fact, the mainstream short-term thinkers and voters don't get it at all. And the reason they don't get it is because they are the problem from the start! They're the ones who voted without thinking and elected professional liars rather than problem solvers. John F. Kennedy was probably the last President who attempted to actually tell the truth, and they shot him in the head for asking too many questions about the Federal Reserve (and other topics). After that moment in history, it has all been a series of escalating lies to the point where all the presidents in recent memory are now little more than staged public relations fictional characters playing a role in the hit comedy TV series called "America, The Leader of the Free World!"

It's a comedy series, however... not a reality show. And the mainstream media is playing the role of the comedy news source in the comedy TV series. Virtually nothing the media prints about health, the economy or world news has any basis in fact whatsoever. It is merely the regurgitation of crafted spin pieces and official deceptions designed to keep the voters entertained a while longer while the money commanders loot the economy before the coming collapse.

Lessons to be learned from recent history

Why does any of this matter? At one level, it doesn't. The collapse of America has been set in motion, and there's actually very little you or I can do to stop it. Emailing your congressman or signing a petition is futile. Even the act of voting is essentially an exercise in supporting a system of government that's already on life support and nearing its expiration date. It doesn't really make much difference at this point, except for local and state elections, of course.

Because the bigger picture here is that the experiment of Democracy has failed on a grand scale. It's not obvious to everyone yet (because few people are long-term thinkers), but it soon will be. Democracy doesn't work if your voters are mostly short-term thinkers who can't do math and whose selfishness outweighs any sense of leaving something of value for the next generation.

The American democracy experiment will soon crash land, and when we're sorting through the wreckage, all the shocked and bewildered people will be asking, "How could this have happened? Everything was going along just fine..." But it wasn't just fine. Most of it was all a Big Lie, and lies have a way of catching up with you.

America's democracy was a noble concept. And it could have worked if the population had been better educated and the corporations less greedy (and the lawmakers less whore-like, I suppose). But today it has failed, and now it's only a matter of watching it implode and then figuring out a better solution for creating a more sustainable nation for our collective future.

Perhaps it's time we threw away the idea of voters electing "representatives" in its totality and instead created a nation of sovereign citizens who operate from a completely different mindset. Who says we need a federal government at all? Wouldn't most of us be freer, healthier, wealthier and happier if the federal government didn't even exist? Sure, we need a national defense but even that could be coordinated by the states.

Remember, the "United States" means a group of states who are united in their intentions. It does not mean a federal tyrant that overrules the states. The "United States" of America is supposed to be a system of agreement and open trade among fifty sovereign geopolitical entities, not one oppressive system that demands compliance with its corrupt, power-hungry agenda.

These are some of the issues people will no doubt be pondering when the current experiment in democracy implodes.

Don't be surprised when that day comes, of course. It's already past the point of no return. Be ready to take part in the discussions of what I call The Next Society that will inevitably be born out of the coming collapse. And hopefully we can figure out a way to improve on the concept of "democracy" for a brighter (and freer) future.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: democracy; failing
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100101-118 next last
To: sickoflibs
That allows one to feel like it is an altruistic argument.

as you earlier posted...'deviously' ["devil"ishly] orchestrated to play on mans nature...IMHO...

81 posted on 05/10/2011 7:42:39 AM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 79 | View Replies]

To: SMARTY
“...the fact that we have seen millions voting themselves into complete dependence on a tyrant has made our generation understand that to choose one’s government is not necessarily to secure freedom.” Friedrich August von Hayek

That's an excellent quote. I really need to read his book The Road to Serfdom.

82 posted on 05/10/2011 7:47:10 AM PDT by ELS (Vivat Benedictus XVI!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Scythian
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years." — Alexis de Tocqueville

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

83 posted on 05/10/2011 7:50:58 AM PDT by ELS (Vivat Benedictus XVI!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Scythian
I realized about a year ago that most Freepers are not unlike the far left, they are stuck, unable to learn, label everything and discount it before it challenges thier worldview.

This tendency, across the political spectrum, is what makes me think we're a lot closer to the Crash then most people realize. For a variety of reasons, people choose to see things from a certain point of view, and even treat the exercise of imagination as a betrayal of their own values.

So let's imagine. If democracy is failing, then what does that mean? Nations have failed before. Freedom been restored or created from those freeing themselves from bondage. It seems we're in the latter stages of a Cloward Piven collision course with utter collapse right now. If it's too late to change course, then what should we be doing?

Individual efforts? Collective efforts? Interim goals? Final objectives?

I have friends in and around the military that are rather depressed about the way things are heading. I'll tell you what I tell them. It's hard to spend your whole life fighting for something that's in the process of self-destructing. But if it is lost, it is lost. That doesn't mean history stops, life stops, or the potential to raise something better in the ashes stops.

I can't help but think that people like, say, Glenn Beck, who are despondent and emotionally broken by grief for the old republic, aren't helping as much as if they could stay upbeat and focused on solutions.

84 posted on 05/10/2011 8:00:30 AM PDT by Steel Wolf ("There are moderate Muslims, but Islam itself is not moderate." - Ibn Warraq)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies]

To: JudgemAll

They are all evil doers.

LLS


85 posted on 05/10/2011 8:01:59 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (THANK YOU PRESIDENT BUSH!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: ELS

“... to choose one’s government is not necessarily to secure freedom...”

That’s the significant statement


86 posted on 05/10/2011 8:19:36 AM PDT by SMARTY (Conforming to non-conformity is conforming just the same.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies]

To: Steel Wolf
-- I can't help but think that people like, say, Glenn Beck, who are despondent and emotionally broken by grief for the old republic, aren't helping as much as if they could stay upbeat and focused on solutions. --

I think it's self-evident that despondency and pining for the past work against being upbeat!

I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell of agreement as to what the problem is (with government and the structures it provides), or problems are, other than from a symptomatic standpoint; and given that, I don't see a snowball's chance of finding ballot-box agreement on social solutions.

The establishment players, and Beck is one, as is Limbaugh, will always work as though the framework of the constitution provides an honest, working form of government, going forward. In other words, they aren't talking about the illegitimacy or collapse of the government.

The public will tolerate any form of government, as long as it is fed, warm, and entertained. The appearance of having control over the government is a sufficient substitute for having control. Give the public a symbolic vote, and let them use energy in public argument even though the outcome is already decided. I think the constitution is long ago dead; our government is a corrupt and lost set of institutions; and the public would reject the independence that accompanies "less government," if "less government" was on the ballot.

I find this to be a great time to be alive, with the modern tools of communication and awareness. Independence, like happiness, is a state of mind -- an attitude.

87 posted on 05/10/2011 8:26:19 AM PDT by Cboldt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 84 | View Replies]

To: Cboldt
The establishment players, and Beck is one, as is Limbaugh, will always work as though the framework of the constitution provides an honest, working form of government, going forward. In other words, they aren't talking about the illegitimacy or collapse of the government.

This is extremely insightful. Yes, indeed! The entire premise of Rush's program is that government is still honest and sound. It isn't.

Hm?...Perhaps that is why the conservative media, in general, has ignored Obama's eligibility. For them to admit that **all** of congress, **every** secretary of state and attorney general, ** all** of our highest military, and our **every** court so far has failed to act on an illegitimate usurper in the White House would mean that they would force them to admit that our government is utterly corrupt!

88 posted on 05/10/2011 8:41:46 AM PDT by wintertime
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 87 | View Replies]

To: RoadTest
Amen, we have to put our trust in Him and none other.

With DC insiders saying, "there is no debt problem and everything is fine except Republicans and businesses", America as the founders envisioned it, has truly ended.

We are at step 8.

89 posted on 05/10/2011 8:56:05 AM PDT by thirst4truth (The left elected a mouth that is unattached to an eye, brain or muscle.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Scythian
Thank you for posting a truthful article. Agree about the better hope, that is Who we should look to and spend our time teaching about.

Mat 6:27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

Mat 6:28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:

Mat 6:29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

Mat 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

Mat 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

Mat 6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Mat 6:34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

90 posted on 05/10/2011 9:02:14 AM PDT by thirst4truth (The left elected a mouth that is unattached to an eye, brain or muscle.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Scythian

As numerous other posters have pointed out, the author failed Civics 101 in regard to our form of government — assuming, that is, that our socialistic public schools even bother to teach it.


91 posted on 05/10/2011 9:04:46 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg ("It's hard to take the president seriously." - Jim DeMint)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wintertime
-- Perhaps that is why the conservative media, in general, has ignored Obama's eligibility. --

For many of them, probably most, the answer is ignorance, and laziness in research. For others, simple stupidity. A small minority has an actual doubt or belief that Obama is constitutionally ineligible - and of that group, some are resigned to accept tangential precedent (i.e., Wong Kim Ark) as controlling; and another group thinks that the "natural born" requirement is a quaint anachronism that has no place today.

The level of education and curiosity of the modern public is such that superficial analysis is sufficient.

People need some amount of conflict. If conflict didn't exist, it would be created. I see the political battles between the GOP and DEM sets of elite rulers as a contrived conflict, with various purposes. One is keeping the public on a mind that it (the public) can regulate the power of government via public action, the vote. Without the contrived tension, the public would revolt against the government - with the political tension, each member of the public can rail against a political opponent, and sometimes even "win". All the while, the government grows in power.

For most routine social needs (crime, contract enforcement, family law), the institutions of government actually work. But when it comes to the fundamental levers of power (the value of money; the right to conduct business; wealth transfer; the right of the people to be armed as well as the government is), the institutions of government work against personal responsibility and personal independence - and in favor of the elite rulers.

92 posted on 05/10/2011 9:10:25 AM PDT by Cboldt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 88 | View Replies]

To: Cboldt
I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell of agreement as to what the problem is (with government and the structures it provides), or problems are, other than from a symptomatic standpoint; and given that, I don't see a snowball's chance of finding ballot-box agreement on social solutions

i sincerely believe that the priciples of FReedom, that a few old dead white guys envisioned, was another God inspired gift in the history of men and nations...

Constitution day +1 it started to deteriorate, because the heart of men is inherantly selfish and the need to 'get mine' at the cost of others, including their children, has always been the root cause of our collective sufferings and failures...

most wont agree, but then again, I dont really care, as i said before, i dont put my trust or ultimate happiness in men...

and again, for all the hungry, hungry hippos on both sides of the aisle, beware the lines you cross and who has the true power on the other side...

93 posted on 05/10/2011 9:13:09 AM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 87 | View Replies]

To: Gilbo_3
-- i sincerely believe that the priciples of FReedom, that a few old dead white guys envisioned, was another God inspired gift in the history of men and nations... --

It was the only time in the history of the world that a government was formed with the people superior over their worldly government.

Franklin knew the structure would require continuous maintenance, or else the government would invert the paradigm - "A republic ma'am, IF you can keep it."

I honestly believe the majority of the public would reject "less government," on account of the increase in personal risk that is thought to result. A minority of the public sees family and community as the last resort.

The founders wouldn't recognize the country; and if you or I could visit 50 years in the future, we wouldn't recognize it either.

No worries. Like you, I don't put any faith in men; and my happiness does not depend on the fate of the US, or the world.

94 posted on 05/10/2011 9:22:42 AM PDT by Cboldt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 93 | View Replies]

To: LibLieSlayer; Graybeard58; Scythian; sickoflibs; hiredhand; Gilbo_3

“...I’ll stand with you and fight for America... I ain’t going anywhere and I dang sure will not quit as long as I am breathing...”

This is our country. Our nation. OUR land. The blood of our ancestors stains its soil - people who pledged their “lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor” to bring it into being and preserve it for posterity.

They dang sure didn’t quit either.

The oldest gentleman Citizen at Lexington-COncord was Sam Whitemore. He was 77 years old. He was bayonetted AND shot several times, and STILL went on to live another 16 or so years after the battle. He knew what was at stake way back then, and did not hesitate. He dang sure didn’t quit either.

We are the scions of generations of brave American men and women who BELIEVED in something better, something good and decent - and who handed it to us to preserve.

We are NOT a nation of cowards and honorless slugs. There are those amongst us who are, to be sure, and we know them by their deeds and actions. ANd yes there is a large segment of society that is selfish and demands that we support their uselessness - but there has ALWAYS been that segment of society everywhere. We are no different in that respect, from the rest of history.

And there are those who actively SEEK power and lust after authority. The corrupt of heart and mind. It’s human. We elect them out of ignorance.

They don’t seem to understand that they ONLY power they have is that which WE let them have, temporarily - either through the voting process, or because of our patience and tolerance and hesitation (so far) to actively enforce a certain phrase set forth in the Declaration of Independence.

We can’t leep electing trash and expect the results to be anything less than debris-strewn sewage.

Gilbo was entirely correct in post 39; we ARE in dangerous times, and most probably heading for the “Reset” button. Dangerous times DEMAND that we look to the actions of our ancestors and see how they dealt with their own dangerous times, and then each of us must decide what we will or will not do in defense of all that we love and hold dear.

The choice you make will determine where you stand. And stand, we must. Or surrender to the scoundrels and see all that was built and accomplished be erased.

That’s pretty much the choice we have. There’s a dragon staring at us, and we either turn and run from it, or we stop, turn, drive the butt of the lance into the ground and say “Here, by God, not one step back” and spit in his face.

Yeah, it’s frightening as hell to stare down the Dragon. Leviathan always counts on fear and terror. All things evil count on that. Terror affects all people differently. It’s how you control and focus that fear, and USE it, is what counts.

But dragons bleed. And if it bleeds, it can die. The dragon’s greatest weapon is that he makes you believe he is invincible. But he isn’t - to quote another good FReeper - he “STILL has a soft, squishy, pink center”.

If we are to call ourselves Free Men, and be worthy of the title of American, we must believe and act the part - in spite of whatever the enemy on the left (and amongst us) does.

We’re sufficient for whatever day God sets before us. But we have to BELIEVE it first. Most of us were raised to believe that. It’s time to remember those lessons.

We’re Americans, and NOBODY can ever take that away from us - only WE choose whether or not to give that up. And that ain’t going to happen.

It’s about attitude. God gave you a middle finger for good reason - and that reason is to USE it to peacefully but firmly answer the enemy any and every time.

Failing that and given violent actions on the enemy’s part, God gave you an Index finger too; and John Moses Browning gave you the means to put that finger to use as well.


95 posted on 05/10/2011 9:47:42 AM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: sergeantdave

“..let’s dig a hole, crawl in and die. Whimpering like a whipped dog is much less trouble than standing tall...”

“Whimpering” is not a word any AMERICAN should ever recognize.


96 posted on 05/10/2011 9:50:33 AM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: NFHale
It’s about attitude. God gave you a middle finger for good reason - and that reason is to USE it to peacefully but firmly answer the enemy any and every time.

i love the smell of Halerant in the morning...8^}

97 posted on 05/10/2011 10:05:46 AM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 95 | View Replies]

To: NFHale; LibLieSlayer; Graybeard58; Scythian; hiredhand; Gilbo_3; Marine_Uncle; ...
RE :”The oldest gentleman Citizen at Lexington-COncord was Sam Whitemore. He was 77 years old. He was bayonetted AND shot several times, and STILL went on to live another 16 or so years after the battle. He knew what was at stake way back then, and did not hesitate. He dang sure didn’t quit either.

He's here in this day and age with a few small changes.

Now he has a sign that says “Don't touch my SS and medicare”. He's paid in all those years and dang it, it's being paid back even if his grandson has to work three jobs to pay for it. But you know what? His grandson is onto the scam so he lives with Mommy and daddy, works under the table and gets medicaid for being poor.

So where is grandpa's entitlements coming from anyway? The Federal Reserve uncle Ben Bernanke. God bless America.

:) I couldnt help it. It fits with the current events.

98 posted on 05/10/2011 10:16:00 AM PDT by sickoflibs ("It's not the taxes, the redistribution is the federal spending=tax delayed")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 95 | View Replies]

To: sickoflibs; NFHale
:) I couldnt help it. It fits with the current events.

sadly, i agree...if i dont laugh at it a bit, Id get worn out at even holdin out hope that we will at least be called to do *something* to help our kids in this temporal state of being...

as Hale says...if God so chooses to use us, we are sufficient for the day...

99 posted on 05/10/2011 11:31:42 AM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 98 | View Replies]

To: Scythian

Because this country was never meant to be a “Democracy?”
Because the original intent limited the vote to land owners?

The idea that a tax eaters vote counts as much as a taxpayer’s vote is something that will, sooner rather than later, destroy this country.


100 posted on 05/10/2011 11:36:32 AM PDT by Little Ray (The Gods of the Copybook Heading, with terror and slaughter return!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100101-118 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson