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Florida Bill Would Bar Doctors From Asking Patients About Guns
tpmmuckraker ^ | 9 May, 2011 | David Taintor

Posted on 05/10/2011 2:57:03 PM PDT by marktwain

As NPR reports, a Florida bill would bar doctors -- in particular pediatricians -- from asking their patients if they own guns. Gov. Rick Scott (R) is expected to sign the bill this week, which would make Florida the first state with such a law.

Scott's office would not release a timeline on when the governor plans to sign the bill. But Scott's press secretary, Lane Wright, told TPM "it's likely he will support it."

The National Rifle Association says doctors asking their patients about firearms in the home intrudes on Second Amendment rights. NRA lobbyists helped write the bill.

"We take our children to pediatricians for medical care -- not moral judgment, not privacy intrusions," former NRA president Marion Hammer said.

(Excerpt) Read more at tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: banglist; constitution; doctors; fl
The problem is that pediatricians have been pushing a political agenda, and that doctors have increasingly become an arm of the State.
1 posted on 05/10/2011 2:57:07 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Under what possible circumstances does a Dr. ask about the weapons ownership of his/her patient (other than a bullet wound in the foot)?

My doctor asks a lot of questions of me, but that one has never come up...


2 posted on 05/10/2011 2:59:38 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (osama gets 72 virgins. We get 72 versions...)
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To: marktwain

My liberal cousin is screeching about this. She hasn’t answered me about whether doctors should ask if children live in homes with pools which cause 6X as many deaths as guns.


3 posted on 05/10/2011 3:00:07 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: marktwain

The law violates the first amendment. They should be allowed to ask anything they want. On the other hand, you should have the right to refuse to answer, politely or otherwise. We have enough laws. It’s time for people to take responsibility for their own lives and ability to say “shove it” to people asking questions they don’t want to answer. e.g. don’t give out your social security number unless it is a financial requirement. I’ve given out false ones from time to time if someone is really insistent.


4 posted on 05/10/2011 3:02:43 PM PDT by RobRoy (The US today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: cripplecreek

GOOD ONE


5 posted on 05/10/2011 3:05:55 PM PDT by NEMDF
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To: cripplecreek
I don't know what your liberal cousin is screeching about, but I think this law is a bad law. The government has no business telling one private person (the doctor) what they can or cannot say to another private person (the patient or guardian). I don't necessarily like that some doctors ask about guns, but it's not the government's place to tell them they can't.

That said, I have no problem with a pediatrician talking with parents about common household dangers, including weapons, as long as they are also asking about pools, stairs, household cleaners, etc. Some do.

6 posted on 05/10/2011 3:07:32 PM PDT by Conscience of a Conservative
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To: Conscience of a Conservative

Guns aren’t a medical issue.


7 posted on 05/10/2011 3:10:48 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: freedumb2003

“Under what circumstances does a Dr. ask about the weapons...”

True story although a little TMI for some. When I was in labor with my first child, a nurse asked me about tattoos (none), piercings (ears only), etc... Then she asked me if I owned any guns. I was stunned and being in active labor, not really with it all the way. I asked, “you mean, in my vagina?” My OB/GYN laughed and laughed. The nurse got mad as heck. So, yes, this is a common question. My husband got to use a similar line when asked before a colonoscopy if he owned any guns. You can imagine his answer as to the possible location?


8 posted on 05/10/2011 3:19:25 PM PDT by momtothree
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To: momtothree

Sorry if my story offends anyone. It is true and I still laugh at it.


9 posted on 05/10/2011 3:21:35 PM PDT by momtothree
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To: freedumb2003

The American Pediatrics Association has asked their members to ask parents, in the name of keeping children safe.


10 posted on 05/10/2011 3:23:38 PM PDT by tbw2
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To: RobRoy

Your polite refusal to answer could be noted officially as a lack of cooperation on your part, and entered in your medical record in some states, IIRC.

At least in my state the best answer to “do you have guns in you home?” is “I’m not going to answer that question, I’m reporting you to the state medical examiners’ board for asking, and I’m getting myself and my family another primary care provider! Good day!”


11 posted on 05/10/2011 3:24:10 PM PDT by elcid1970 (Deport all Muslims. Nuke Mecca. Death to Islam.)
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To: momtothree

>>Then she asked me if I owned any guns. I was stunned and being in active labor, not really with it all the way. I asked, “you mean, in my vagina?”<<

My ex-wife used HERS as a loaded weapon, I’ll tell ya!

(I am LOLIRL!)


12 posted on 05/10/2011 3:26:56 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (osama gets 72 virgins. We get 72 versions...)
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To: cripplecreek
So? I agree that doctors shouldn't be talking about guns (though, again, in the context of a broader "keep dangerous items away from children" conversation, it might make sense), but I don't think the government should have any role in mandating what a doctor can and cannot say to a patient.
13 posted on 05/10/2011 3:27:44 PM PDT by Conscience of a Conservative
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To: momtothree

>> My husband got to use a similar line when asked before a colonoscopy if he owned any guns. You can imagine his answer as to the possible location?<<

“You can put that where the sun don’t... um, wait, you are doing that already...”


14 posted on 05/10/2011 3:29:02 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (osama gets 72 virgins. We get 72 versions...)
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To: freedumb2003

“My ex-wife used HERS as a loaded weapon”

LOL.


15 posted on 05/10/2011 3:30:16 PM PDT by momtothree
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To: momtothree

>>LOL.<<

If you think THAT was funny, imagine what happened when she went off half-cocked!


16 posted on 05/10/2011 3:32:38 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (osama gets 72 virgins. We get 72 versions...)
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To: freedumb2003

“... wait, you are already doing that”.

He actually left that doctor and found a new one. He said that he wanted a doctor that was interested in his health and not about owning/not owning guns. I mean the concern was polyps and cancer testing... not 38’s and rifles.


17 posted on 05/10/2011 3:33:22 PM PDT by momtothree
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To: Conscience of a Conservative
That horse is already out of the barn.

The government has been pushing this, and they have the AAP on board. Under the new records "privacy" act - actually the opposite - the government can get into your records to find out if you own guns, once the doc has pried into your business.

All this is doing is stopping the doctors from being good little government agents.

None of my doctors have ever asked this question (I would have responded that any firearms I had were lost in that tragic kayaking accident . . . )

18 posted on 05/10/2011 3:36:07 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: Conscience of a Conservative

There is more at stake here than just one person’s “right” to ask another person a question.

The problem is that the federal government will require the Dr’s records to become computerized and accessible by law enforcement.


19 posted on 05/10/2011 3:41:31 PM PDT by Repeal The 17th (Proud to be a (small) monthly donor.)
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To: marktwain

If they ask me a question I don’t want to answer, I just lie to them.

It’s not like I’m under oath or anything like that.

If you cop to a shot or two of whiskey a week, too many will just put you in the raging alcoholic category.

Strangers cannot be trusted with sensitive information.


20 posted on 05/10/2011 3:45:31 PM PDT by Califreak (You can't go swimming in a baseball pool)
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To: Repeal The 17th
There is more at stake here than just one person’s “right” to ask another person a question.

The problem is that the federal government will require the Dr’s records to become computerized and accessible by law enforcement.

So prohibit that - force law enforcement to get a warrant for any medical records, and prohibit them from doing so simply to determine if the person owns any guns.

The answer to expansive government power is not expanding government power further.

21 posted on 05/10/2011 3:47:15 PM PDT by Conscience of a Conservative
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To: Repeal The 17th

I would imagine that all this is in that great ObamaCare Act somewhere in those 2000+ pages, wouldn’t you?


22 posted on 05/10/2011 3:50:27 PM PDT by Bluebird Singing
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To: RobRoy

“The law violates the first amendment. They should be allowed to ask anything they want.”

Really? Are you gay? Do you participate in risky sexual behaviors? Do you cheat on your wife or important other? Do you have sex with children? Animals? etc, etc.

If you answer yes to any of the above, then does the Doc have the right to say he does not want you as a patient because you might have AIDs. Well, that IS the law, you can not refuse to treat the patient and you can not ask them those questions.

BUT you are saying it is ok to ask a parent or an elderly person if they own a gun or are a member of the NRA and then drop you as a patient and that is OK.

BS, the Amer Ped Association is the most liberal of the Med Societies, most of which are liberal, and they have an agenda and it ain’t the best care for your kids.

That is my observation as a Professor at a Medical School.


23 posted on 05/10/2011 4:02:06 PM PDT by TxDas (This above all, to thine ownself be true.)
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To: marktwain

As usual, a tool of the Democrat Party

January 1999 Policy Statement entitled “The Role of the Pediatrician in Youth Violence Prevention and Clinical Practice and at the Community Level.” In that paper, the AAP advises pediatricians to screen children for risk factors indicating violence, such as:
— Whether the parents or family members have substance abuse problems
— Whether the parents are employed
— Whether any family members are involved in gangs
— Whether the parents spank their children
— Whether the parents watch violent television programs or keep guns in the home ……”


The Social Hygiene of Gun Control

By Timothy Wheeler, M.D.

A version of this article appeared in the March 20, 2000 Edition of CNSNews.com
A version of this article will appear in the Orange County Register

We share with physicians the private details of our lives so they can make us well. We depend on them to educate us in the promotion of health. How tempting it is, then, for a doctor to misuse that trust and offer a heartfelt political belief as medical advice. Especially if it’s for the good of children.

Pediatricians, regrettably, yielded to that temptation long ago with gun control. The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) issued an update on Monday of its recommendations for preventive child health care. The guidelines refer doctors to a detailed action plan and set forth a multi-tiered advocacy effort. Specifically, the AAP advises doctors to “incorporate questions about guns into their patient history taking” and to “urge parents who possess guns to remove them, especially handguns, from the home.”

Doctors are supposed to work this political agenda on patients and their families, in their communities, and in government. The AAP guidelines urge lawmakers to ban handguns and “assault weapons” as “the most effective way to reduce firearm-related injuries.” Civil rights and the Constitution are not a hindrance to the AAP, the Second Amendment apparently regarded as an embarrassing nuisance.

Pediatrics has a long and proud tradition of promoting the well being of children. Widespread immunization against polio and diphtheria, for example, is the result of years of pediatricians’ vigilance and dedication. As a result, these old scourges are just a bad memory. Because of pediatricians, children in abusive homes are routinely rescued from injury or death.

But with these guidelines, pediatricians are redirecting the principle of prevention into our lives in a way never intended by their professional mandate.

The pediatrician who is the chief architect of the AAP’s anti-gun guidelines also founded the Handgun Epidemic Lowering Plan (HELP) Network. This is an exclusive organization dedicated to banning guns. Physicians who oppose the HELP Network’s radical agenda are not even allowed to attend the group’s conferences, a policy unthinkable in any scientific organization.

Public health often balances the general good against personal freedoms. One need only look at the resistance of some parents to child immunizations to understand the issues of personal autonomy at stake.

But when public health intervention undermines a constitutional right, citizens are justified in resisting it. Today there is no clearer example of a public health assault on civil liberties than the pediatricians’ campaign to persuade families that guns are bad.

There is another problem with the public health anti-gun crusade. It urges doctors to probe their young patients and their parents about guns in the home. Such meddling violates the boundary between a patient and doctor. Patients trust doctors to do what is right for them. When the doctor is driven by an ulterior motive such as trying to turn kids and their parents against gun ownership, she is committing an unethical act deserving of disciplinary action.

The AAP anticipates some patients may not go along quietly. The organization’s instructional packet for speakers includes a section on how to deal with “challenging individuals” who might object to the AAP’s gun demonization program on scientific or constitutional grounds.

American gun owners feel the heat being slowly turned up. Now they are coming to realize that Clinton-Gore and the American Academy of Pediatrics are making no exception for law-abiding gun owners. In the war of words, they are being lumped in with the very few criminal gun owners who make daily headlines. A suburban father who takes his kids to the shooting range is the moral equivalent of a crack-addicted father who abandons his child to the care of another criminal. No wonder the National Rifle Association is signing up new members so fast.

We have become accustomed to exaggerated rhetoric from politicians. But our doctors? Never. Never should we have to put up with feigned motives and false counsel from the professionals in whose hands we place our children’s wellness.

We can, however, believe the meaning of one pronouncement from the HELP Network’s founder: “Guns are a virus that must be eradicated.” American gun owners, you have been warned.

Visit Doctors for Responsible Gun Ownership | More on the Second Amendment


Timothy Wheeler, M.D., is the Director of Doctors for Responsible Gun Ownership, a Project of The Claremont Institute.


24 posted on 05/10/2011 4:06:35 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (The last Democrat worth a damn was Stalin. He purged his whole Party.)
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To: marktwain

To go down the list:

1) The American Pediatric Association is a radical leftist controlled organization. They stated that it is the “ethical obligation” of pediatricians to ask parents if they have guns in their home. They also suggested that Pediatricians should threaten to deny service or deny service to parents who refuse to answer. Pediatricians are not numerous in Florida, so this could represent a significant hardship to parents.

2) Because of the HIPPA Act (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act), physicians whose patients receive any medical care via government programs, must have their records on computer accessible to a wide array of medical, insurance, government and police agencies, without warrant. This means that parental gun ownership would be known to them as well.

3) Last year, in Florida, again, a State representative and his wife, seeking to adopt, were questioned by the adoption agency about their gun ownership. He was immediately concerned that gun ownership might be used as a pretext to deny adoption to prospective parents. So he sponsored a bill that would *prohibit* adoptive agencies from using gun ownership to deny them a child.

At the time, Democrats derided the bill, saying it was “Pandering to the NRA”.

4) In other States, Child Protective Services already take into account parental gun ownership, the ability of children to access guns, the training of children to use guns, or the parent discharging a gun under any circumstance while the child watches, in determining if a parent is “fit” to raise their child.

Since these criteria are not “exclusively” enough to take away children, they are excused as “just some of many questions”. But in combination with other factors, they certainly may be used to justify the State taking away children.


25 posted on 05/10/2011 4:10:59 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: marktwain

The problem is that pediatricians have been pushing a political agenda, and that doctors have increasingly become an arm of the State.”

This is exactly right. Moreover, the left has greatly influenced doctor training and has managed to get the Hippocratic oath changed. When coupled with AA, it is apparent that that the medical profession cannot be trusted...individual doctors, yes, but the profession as a whole, no.


26 posted on 05/10/2011 4:24:59 PM PDT by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: freedumb2003

I’ve been asked this question. Some doctors ask it when you first become a patient. I left it blank.


27 posted on 05/10/2011 4:30:44 PM PDT by FR_addict
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To: Conscience of a Conservative

From the article:
“The public debate began when an Ocala, Fla. pediatrician refused to offer care when a mother refused to answer questions about guns in the home.”


28 posted on 05/10/2011 4:36:01 PM PDT by Repeal The 17th (Proud to be a (small) monthly donor.)
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To: marktwain

Hummm. . . . glue gun, grease gun, staple gun, caulking gun, boat flare gun, and, my wife may have a cake decorating gun. Other than those, I forget.


29 posted on 05/10/2011 4:49:49 PM PDT by Res Nullius (Sometimes you have to kill a chicken to teach the monkey a lesson)
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To: marktwain

When the hell did this start? Doctors asking patients about guns??????? Why???


30 posted on 05/10/2011 4:52:16 PM PDT by DefeatCorruption
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To: Califreak
If they ask me a question I don’t want to answer, I just lie to them.

Actually, lying is probably better than telling them to go screw themselves because it pollutes the database. If the database is full of misinformation, and they know that but don't know which bits, they'll never be able to use it.

31 posted on 05/10/2011 4:52:24 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: marktwain; Atom Smasher; LucyT; GailA; socialismisinsidious; nikos1121; sheik yerbouty; Nachum; ...
The problem is that pediatricians have been pushing a political agenda, and that doctors have increasingly become an arm of the state.

Both of those statements are probably true to a certain extent. But I'd venture to guess that doctors in private practice nationally vote Republican by a fairly hefty majority. That's because the 'Rat party has made itself an enemy of practicing physicians with its ever-increasing government control (in the name of "regulation" for "public health") over the profession, both on a federal and state level - even before the added burdens of ObamaCare - and its obtuseness with respect to malpractice tort reform because of its alliance with the plaintiff's bar.

32 posted on 05/10/2011 5:30:01 PM PDT by justiceseeker93
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To: Repeal The 17th
From the article:
“The public debate began when an Ocala, Fla. pediatrician refused to offer care when a mother refused to answer questions about guns in the home.”

That doctor was an idiot, but it's not the government's role to tell idiot doctors what questions they may or may not ask, or which patients to see. If the doctor wants to ask certain questions and refuse to offer services to patients who refuse to answer those questions, the doctor should be free to ask the questions and refuse services to people who don't answer, just like a patient is free to refuse to see a doctor who asks the question. This "there oughta be a law" mentality is better suited to 'rats, not conservatives.

33 posted on 05/10/2011 5:47:21 PM PDT by Conscience of a Conservative
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To: justiceseeker93
But I'd venture to guess that doctors in private practice nationally vote Republican by a fairly hefty majority. That's because the 'Rat party has made itself an enemy of practicing physicians with its ever-increasing government control (in the name of "regulation" for "public health") over the profession, both on a federal and state level - even before the added burdens of ObamaCare - and its obtuseness with respect to malpractice tort reform because of its alliance with the plaintiff's bar.

But if that's the case, then why don't they oppose adamantly anything that smells even potentially like a liberal plot, if not hunt down those responsible and harvest their organs at night in their homes?

34 posted on 05/10/2011 6:07:04 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: justiceseeker93

“But I’d venture to guess that doctors in private practice nationally vote Republican by a fairly hefty majority. “

Perhaps you are referring to MDs over 50. I have been on the admissions committee at a med school and it is dominated by liberal women who accept, ready for the surprise, liberal women and the watch word is..... diversity!!!! Women and minorities are now the majority of med students. I believe nationally 54% of med students are female and another 10% or so minority so adult white males are no more than 45%. Qualifications and merit are not what dictates acceptance in to a med program.

I would say the majority of MDs at our school voted for Obama, from the Dean down. And I live in the South!


35 posted on 05/10/2011 11:01:19 PM PDT by TxDas (This above all, to thine ownself be true.)
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To: justiceseeker93; AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; ColdOne; ...

Thanks justiceseeker93.


36 posted on 05/11/2011 1:10:28 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Thanks Cincinna for this link -- http://www.friendsofitamar.org)
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To: elcid1970

>>At least in my state the best answer to “do you have guns in you home?” is “I’m not going to answer that question, I’m reporting you to the state medical examiners’ board for asking, and I’m getting myself and my family another primary care provider! Good day!”<<

That is excellent! Make it cost them.


37 posted on 05/11/2011 8:54:00 AM PDT by RobRoy (The US today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: TxDas

>>Really? Are you gay? Do you participate in risky sexual behaviors? Do you cheat on your wife or important other? Do you have sex with children? Animals? etc, etc.<<

No, no, no and no, no, etc.

That’s one answer. Another would be “Do you?”

>>If you answer yes to any of the above, then does the Doc have the right to say he does not want you as a patient because you might have AIDs. Well, that IS the law, you can not refuse to treat the patient and you can not ask them those questions.<<

As far as I am concerned, that law is unconstitutional as well. It controls free speech.

>>BUT you are saying it is ok to ask a parent or an elderly person if they own a gun or are a member of the NRA and then drop you as a patient and that is OK.<<

No. I am saying that as a free human being and a citizen of the US, the constitution protects their God given right to ask any question they want. And you have the right to refuse to answer, or throw the question back to them, or any other way respond.

Their are two completely separate issues here. 1. can they ask. The constitution says they can. 2. Must you respond. No. You are not required to respond. They can infer anything they want from that. That is their right.


38 posted on 05/11/2011 9:00:39 AM PDT by RobRoy (The US today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: tbw2

I’d refer them to “Nunya Bidness”..


39 posted on 05/11/2011 12:05:11 PM PDT by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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To: RobRoy

Actually Obamacare is predicated on being able to fine (or tax) you for inactivity. Not answering a question could be construed as non-activity.


40 posted on 05/11/2011 2:55:04 PM PDT by TxDas (This above all, to thine ownself be true.)
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To: TxDas

>>Actually Obamacare is predicated on being able to fine (or tax) you for inactivity. Not answering a question could be construed as non-activity.<<

Yeah. Pretty stupid, huh? I’m glad it was struck down as unconstitutional.


41 posted on 05/11/2011 3:17:57 PM PDT by RobRoy (The US today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: marktwain

Doctors vs. Gun Owners

Doctors

(A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is

700,000.

(B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians

per year are

120,000.

(C) Accidental deaths per physician
is

0.171

Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept of
Health and Human Services.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Now think about this:

Guns

(A) The number of gun owners in the U.S.

is

80,000,000.

(Yes, that’s 80 million)

(B) The number of accidental gun deaths

per year, all age groups,

is

1,500.

(C) The number of accidental deaths

per gun owner

is

.0000188

Statistics courtesy of FBI

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

So, statistically, doctors are approximately

9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Remember, ‘Guns don’t kill people, doctors do.’

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN,

BUT

Almost everyone has at least one doctor.
This means you are over 9,000 times more likely to be killed by a doctor as by a gun owner!!!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Please alert your friends

tothis

alarming threat.

We must ban doctors

before this gets completely out of hand!!!!!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Out of concern for the public at large,

We withheld the statistics on

lawyers

for fear the shock would cause

people to panic and seek medical attention!

“PLEASE NOTE: The preceding information may be confidential or privileged. It only should be used or disseminated for the purpose of conducting business with Parker. If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender by replying to this message and then delete the information from your system. Thank you for your cooperation.”


42 posted on 05/13/2011 7:56:04 AM PDT by B4Ranch (Allowing Islam into America is akin to injecting yourself with AIDS to prove how tolerant you are..)
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