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John Demjanjuk convicted over Nazi camp deaths; court orders his release pending appeal
Cleveland Plain Dealer ^ | 5/12/11

Posted on 05/12/2011 11:06:27 AM PDT by EBH

Demjanjuk today was sentenced to five years in prison. He was found guilty of 28,060 counts of being an accessory to murder during the time he was ruled to have been a guard at the Sobibor camp in Nazi-occupied Poland.

There is no evidence Demjanjuk committed a specific crime. Instead he is charged with 28,060 counts of accessory to murder for the number of people who died in the time span he was allegedly a Sobibor camp guard on the theory that if he was there, he was a participant — the first time such a legal argument has been made in German courts.

"If the prosecution is successful, and if there is a verdict for accessory to murder because one was a guard in a camp where many people were killed, it could be a beginning of new last wave of many [such] proceedings," said Cornelius Nestler,

The U.S. Department of Justice's Office of Special Investigations also has said the card is genuine, but documents unearthed by the AP and brought to light in a story last month indicate that the FBI had doubts similar to those aired by Demjanjuk's defense about the evidence — though the material was never turned over to them.

Busch has previously said that with the time spent in custody in Israel, Germany and the U.S. adding up to more than 10 years — more than two-thirds of the maximum sentence — he should be immediately set free, especially in view of his age.

(Excerpt) Read more at cleveland.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: demjanjuk; nazi
First attempt in Israel...it was over turned as a case of mistaken identity.

I have know idea what the truth is, but reading through the entire article I am not sure there is a legal conviction here either.

If he is convicted for being a guard...shouldn't then all the guards still living be convicted?

1 posted on 05/12/2011 11:06:32 AM PDT by EBH
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To: Las Vegas Dave

For the ping list?


2 posted on 05/12/2011 11:07:06 AM PDT by EBH ( Whether you eat your bread or see it vanish into a looter's stomach, is an absolute.)
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To: EBH

This whole trial was a sham.


3 posted on 05/12/2011 11:08:48 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: EBH

George Soros also worked for the Nazi’s... Where is his trial?


4 posted on 05/12/2011 11:09:01 AM PDT by GraceG
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To: EBH
"If the prosecution is successful, and if there is a verdict for accessory to murder because one was a guard in a camp where many people were killed, it could be a beginning of new last wave of many [such] proceedings," said Cornelius Nestler.

How ironic would that be?

By using "guilt-by-association" as the basis for convicting the guy, Germany as a society would be employing (and setting precedent for) a technique that the Nazis undoubtedly would have (did?) used themselves.

5 posted on 05/12/2011 11:12:43 AM PDT by Zeppelin (Keep on FReepin' on...)
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To: EBH

I know this has been going on a long time, but I am not entirely sympathetic to this guy.

HOWEVER, the concept of guilt by association is one helluva slippery slope.

I hope it never shows its face in this country.

The krauts are going a little overboard here.


6 posted on 05/12/2011 11:13:30 AM PDT by Vermont Lt (How long before the Mall becomes Tahifir Sq?)
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To: Vermont Lt

Consider that he couldn’t return to the Soviet Union, because he was already marked for death there for getting captured by the Nazis. If you were a Ukrainian POW, your only choices were to “volunteer” for guard duty, or get shot.

There is no evidence he killed even one person as a guard, or signed any orders authorizing any killings.

And why now does Germany care so much for going after war criminals, and a non-German at that? Where were they when they were trying to find Eichmann and Mengele?


7 posted on 05/12/2011 11:16:21 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: GraceG

“George Soros also worked for the Nazi’s... Where is his trial?”

Good point.


8 posted on 05/12/2011 11:16:57 AM PDT by WKUHilltopper (Fix bayonets!)
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To: GraceG

Mr. Soros is a multi-billionaire.


9 posted on 05/12/2011 11:17:09 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Work hard and become a leader; be lazy and never succeed. (Proverbs 12:24))
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To: Vermont Lt
I know this has been going on a long time, but I am not entirely sympathetic to this guy.

I am not sure what I think, but it is a bit cautious. My FIL was autoworker, my in-laws were all German immigrants...not one except for my husband was born here. There is a very active German Culture here in Cleveland. Many of them are very staunch Americans, while celebrating their German cultural roots. My viewpoint is understandably biased in this matter.

10 posted on 05/12/2011 11:21:40 AM PDT by EBH ( Whether you eat your bread or see it vanish into a looter's stomach, is an absolute.)
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To: Zeppelin

He was Russian, then German, then American...and now

Demjanjuk, who is now stateless, has nowhere to go.


11 posted on 05/12/2011 11:23:55 AM PDT by EBH ( Whether you eat your bread or see it vanish into a looter's stomach, is an absolute.)
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To: GraceG
"George Soros also worked for the Nazi’s... Where is his trial?"

The war ended 66 years ago and Soros is 81. How old was he when he worked for the Nazis?

12 posted on 05/12/2011 11:32:10 AM PDT by Mila
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To: GraceG
I have the same issue. I have no remorse for Mr Demjanjuk, and one wonders why unrepentant Nazi-collaborator Soros does not deserve a similar measure of investigation, trial, and jail cell.

.

13 posted on 05/12/2011 11:36:26 AM PDT by Seaplaner (Never give in. Never give in. Never...except to convictions of honour and good sense. W. Churchill)
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To: EBH
First attempt in Israel...it was over turned as a case of mistaken identity.

He was extradited to Israel on the charge that he was a specific guard, "Ivan the Terrible." The Israeli Supreme Court found that there was overwhelming evidence that he had been a concentration camp guard, but not the specific one he had been charged with being. Because Israel could only prosecute him for the specific charge he had been extradited on, they could not convict him and had to send him back to the U.S.

This was a separate trial in Germany on different charges.

14 posted on 05/12/2011 11:39:22 AM PDT by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: Mila
Assuming Soros is telling the truth about his age, he was 15. Do you think that exonerates him? I sure don't. Soros was a Gestapo informant who ratted out his fellow Jews. That's much more significant than some Ukranian POW who might or might not have been a guard at a concentration camp. Are you defending Soros?
15 posted on 05/12/2011 11:39:54 AM PDT by ozzymandus
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To: Vermont Lt

“I hope it never shows its (guilt by association) face in this country.”

Too late. Demjanjuk was deported from the US on the basis if accusations that would not stand the light of day were the topic bank robbery or fraud. But if you accuse someone of being a death camp guard it’s like accusing someone of witchcraft - they’re guilty if they admit it and guilty if they don’t.


16 posted on 05/12/2011 11:40:26 AM PDT by MeganC (NO WAR FOR OIL! ........except when a Democrat's in charge.)
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To: Seaplaner

Looks like a witch hunt from where I’m sitting.


17 posted on 05/12/2011 11:43:18 AM PDT by TheRealDBear
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To: ozzymandus
""""Soros was a Gestapo informant who ratted out his fellow Jews.""""

In interviews I have seen him give, he said he enjoyed what he was doing for the Nazi's. He enjoyed stealing the property of the Jews, and had no problem in turning them in. It is where he learned to be cruel and to have no feelings about it, he hates his own Jewishness.

Yes, why isn't he on trial?

18 posted on 05/12/2011 12:00:39 PM PDT by annieokie
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To: EBH

Jewish life is still cheap in Germany.


19 posted on 05/12/2011 12:48:27 PM PDT by onedoug (If)
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To: ozzymandus
"Are you defending Soros? "

Hardly. Because of his age during the war, I couldn't quite picture him committing war crimes. Also I knew that he was Jewish, at least by birth, so I wondered how he got involved with the Nazis. Why did he turn against his fellow Jews and cozy up to the enemy? Money?

20 posted on 05/12/2011 1:50:33 PM PDT by Mila
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To: annieokie
he hates his own Jewishness.

Just like Reinhard Heydrich.

21 posted on 05/12/2011 1:52:01 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: EBH; ADemocratNoMore; Akron Al; arbee4bush; agrace; ATOMIC_PUNK; Badeye; Bikers4Bush; ...

Ohio Pings!

To be added to the Ohio Ping List, please freepmail (works best).
LasVegasDave.

22 posted on 05/12/2011 2:04:31 PM PDT by Las Vegas Dave (Getting freepers to all agree, is like herding cats!)
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To: EBH

He’s still alive?


23 posted on 05/12/2011 2:37:05 PM PDT by RockinRight (Herman Cain 2012)
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To: TheRealDBear

“Looks like a witch hunt from where I’m sitting.”

Abdo-lutely! I’m in the Cleveland area, and have friends in Seven Hills, one who worked on the line next to JD. He says JD was a quiet old man who worked hard. We’ve had extensive coverage here about this case, and the previous Israeli case, so we’ve had a lot of his history covered. This guy was dealt a most awful, losing hand at birth. His family was so poor that he had to borrow his brother’s shoes to walk a long way to enlist in the Russian Army. He was turned away the first time because he didn’t even have a change of underwear or socks. He finally got in, and was captured by the Nazis, and put in a camp with other Ukrainians captives. He was basically given a choice; die, or work as a guard. He was never an SS guy, just trained by them. We don’t even know what he did in his guard duties. Maybe just trudged around the outside wire. This is a very weak case of guilt by association. I don’t know,,,,, very difficult life for sure. Born in abject poverty, and just tried to stay alive. Very difficult to judge!


24 posted on 05/12/2011 2:44:05 PM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: ozzymandus
Okay, I just read a FR thread from February 2011. It opened my eyes to this subject.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2672960/posts.

Soros comes across as a soulless, and I mean completely without a soul, horror. I can't help but wonder how someone on the young side became so heartless and without any normal human feelings. He even seemed unfazed that close family members, and uncle and his family, were sent to Auschwitz. I always thought of him in relation to politics and the screwed up ideology of the left, but now it occurs to me that he might be a sociopath as well.

25 posted on 05/12/2011 2:59:47 PM PDT by Mila
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To: EBH; Fred Nerks; TigersEye

Of course Gloria Cayenne Farkhim said it best: “ Bring the old guy to Washington and make him a Gitmo Czar, hell , ideologically speaking he is at one with the White Hut
in what he thinks will work to bring about a Utopia.The only difference is the flavor.”/s

National Socialism. You gotta love it......( or else.)


26 posted on 05/12/2011 6:05:08 PM PDT by Candor7 (Obama . fascist info..http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html)
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To: Zeppelin

To paraphrase Inigo Montoya, “When you say ‘guilt by association,’ I do not think it means what you think it means.” It’s NOT ‘guilt by association’ in any sense of that phrase, like JD was just a casual bud with some local jailhouse employees who just happened to work for a bunch of Germans...he was a GUARD, armed and ready to kill.

Working with Nazis, perhaps a Nazi himself. At Sobibor. Not a concentration camp. A death camp. One of six death camps. Specifically designed and operated to do one thing and one thing only...kill as many people as quickly and efficiently as possible. Designed to kill Jews, though others - gypsys, Slavs, homosexuals, etc. - were sometimes caught in the net and killed too. But only Jews were specifically and exclusively targeted, men women, children, for total annihilation, simply for being Jews. And JD was a cog in the murder machine.

So save your crocodile tears and guilt by association BS; no-one worked at Sobibor, or Auschwitz, Chelmno, Treblinka, Maidanek, or Belzec without knowing exactly what was going on, and making it possible to murder innocents by the trainload.


27 posted on 05/12/2011 7:20:34 PM PDT by TrueKnightGalahad
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To: EBH
This was always something of a bizarre case from a legal standpoint. If I remember the facts clearly, he was an American citizen who had his citizenship revoked . . . and was extradited to Israel to stand trial as "Ivan the Terrible" . . . but an Israeli court sent him somewhere else because it determined that he was not "Ivan the Terrible" but some other guard at a concentration camp . . . and now he's just been convicted in a German court on 28,000+ counts for crimes he allegedly committed (by implication, not indirectly) while he was a Ukrainian prisoner of the Nazis in Poland . . . and he was allegedly some kind of Nazi war criminal but only got five years for his role in 28,000+ murders.

That sure sounds like a nice, clean legal process to me. /sarcasm off/

28 posted on 05/13/2011 4:16:37 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: Mila
Soros is a real-life Bond villain. It's inconceivable to me that anybody could look at this man and not realize he is pure evil.
29 posted on 05/13/2011 12:31:57 PM PDT by ozzymandus
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra
He's just another victim of selective outrage by the ignorant pitch fork mob. Meanwhile, German rocket scientist, Wernher Von Braun, who oversaw V-2 prison labor camps, got a heroes welcome to the USA, and a ticker tape parade.
30 posted on 03/17/2012 1:46:22 PM PDT by FBD (My carbon footprint is bigger than yours)
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To: FBD

Miscarriage of Justice!


31 posted on 03/17/2012 2:51:26 PM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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