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(Indiana) Court: No right to resist unlawful police entry
AP/Chicago Tribune ^ | 5/13/11

Posted on 05/14/2011 3:32:09 AM PDT by markomalley

People have no right to resist if police officers illegally enter their home, the Indiana Supreme Court ruled in a decision that overturns centuries of common law.

The court issued its 3-2 ruling on Thursday, contending that allowing residents to resist officers who enter their homes without any right would increase the risk of violent confrontation. If police enter a home illegally, the courts are the proper place to protest it, Justice Steven David said.

"We believe ... a right to resist an unlawful police entry into a home is against public policy and is incompatible with modern Fourth Amendment jurisprudence," David said. "We also find that allowing resistance unnecessarily escalates the level of violence and therefore the risk of injuries to all parties involved without preventing the arrest."

Justices Robert Rucker and Brent Dickson strongly dissented, saying the ruling runs afoul of the U.S. Constitution's Fourth Amendment against unreasonable search and seizure, The Times of Munster reported.

"In my view the majority sweeps with far too broad a brush by essentially telling Indiana citizens that government agents may now enter their homes illegally -- that is, without the necessity of a warrant, consent or exigent circumstances," Rucker said.

Both dissenting justices suggested they would have supported the ruling if the court had limited its scope to stripping the right to resist officers who enter homes illegally in cases where they suspect domestic violence is being committed.

But Dickson said, "The wholesale abrogation of the historic right of a person to reasonably resist unlawful police entry into his dwelling is unwarranted and unnecessarily broad."

(Excerpt) Read more at chicagotribune.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: donutwatch; fourthamendment; indiana
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Here is the actual court ruling.

This is friggin unbelievable.

1 posted on 05/14/2011 3:32:10 AM PDT by markomalley
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To: markomalley

Threads from yesterday if anyone is interested in reading the comments thereon.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2719594/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2719318/posts


2 posted on 05/14/2011 3:36:09 AM PDT by deport
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To: deport

Thanks. Neither came up from “search” (I guess since both were from blog entries)


3 posted on 05/14/2011 3:37:37 AM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good-Pope Leo XIII)
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To: markomalley

Tick... Tock...


4 posted on 05/14/2011 3:40:34 AM PDT by SuperLuminal (Where is another agitator for republicanism like Sam Adams when we need him?)
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To: markomalley

Would be nice if the courts continued to respect this common law right. It exists whether they care to acknowlege it or not.


5 posted on 05/14/2011 3:45:32 AM PDT by Tallguy (Received a fine from the NFL for a helmet-to-helmet hit.)
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To: markomalley

This makes me wonder what kind of “police” we’ll be dealing with in a few years.


6 posted on 05/14/2011 3:45:51 AM PDT by RWB Patriot ("My ability is a value that must be purchased and I don't recognize anyone's need as a claim on me.")
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To: markomalley

You can forget the shotgun, here.
Pistols, too.
Your proper response to assailants with “bulletproof” apparal is standard military metal-cased ball. From a rifle. Armor-piercing is even better when you can find it.
Good ‘ol buckshot just won’t “cut it” as it were.
Just hit center mass and you’ll be fine.


7 posted on 05/14/2011 3:51:31 AM PDT by Flintlock
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To: RWB Patriot

My first thought was - who appointed those ‘judges’?


8 posted on 05/14/2011 3:52:57 AM PDT by mathluv ( Conservative first and foremost, republican second - GO SARAHCUDA!!!!)
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To: markomalley

Combine this with the new Obama policy, supported whole-heartedly by almost everybody here on FR, that the government can now break into your house in the middle of the night and pump two bullets into your head as you stand defenseless in your underwear, as long as it really, really wants to.


9 posted on 05/14/2011 4:01:41 AM PDT by Haiku Guy (If you can read this / (To paraphrase on old line) / Thank a TAXPAYER!.)
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To: markomalley

So, all a criminal need do, is dress like a cop...


10 posted on 05/14/2011 4:01:58 AM PDT by Paisan
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To: markomalley

The next step is for courts to uphold evidence obtained in searches resulting from illegal police entires, if the police made the entry with the impression they were entering legally.


11 posted on 05/14/2011 4:03:17 AM PDT by Quiller (When you're fighting to survive, there is no "try" -- there is only do, or do not.)
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To: mathluv

now that is the correct question.
this could sink mr daniels? “My first thought was - who appointed those ‘judges’?”


12 posted on 05/14/2011 4:14:40 AM PDT by aumrl (let's keep it real Conservatives)
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To: aumrl

They may be elected, but I was think ‘which president’?


13 posted on 05/14/2011 4:17:47 AM PDT by mathluv ( Conservative first and foremost, republican second - GO SARAHCUDA!!!!)
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To: markomalley
I am 46 years old and never had the police illegally enter my home.

My father lived to 56 and he never had the police illegally enter his home.

Both my grandfathers lived into their 90’s and never had the police illegally enter their homes.

46 + 56 + 90 + 90 - 20 (years I lived with my father) = 262 years

14 posted on 05/14/2011 4:25:58 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper (Obama can't see something pure like the truth without wanting to abort it.)
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To: markomalley

So . . . warrents were never needed?


15 posted on 05/14/2011 4:30:12 AM PDT by RoadTest (Organized religion is no substitute for the relationship the living God wants with you.)
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To: markomalley

So . . . warrants were never needed?


16 posted on 05/14/2011 4:30:48 AM PDT by RoadTest (Organized religion is no substitute for the relationship the living God wants with you.)
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To: Haiku Guy

What policy are you talking about? I must have missed something.


17 posted on 05/14/2011 4:32:36 AM PDT by Vor Lady
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To: markomalley

Chip, chip, chip......


18 posted on 05/14/2011 4:32:46 AM PDT by Thermalseeker (The theft being perpetrated by Congress and the Fed makes Bernie Maddoff look like a pickpocket.)
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To: Haiku Guy

Come on HG, this sort of thing only happens to people who were up to no good anyway, and mostly “those” people to boot, so who cares?


19 posted on 05/14/2011 4:33:17 AM PDT by Wolfie
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To: markomalley

Sounds like some Judges need impeached. Or at least to have someone plant an anonymous tip that they are running drug smuggling operations from their house.


20 posted on 05/14/2011 4:35:34 AM PDT by nonliberal (Graduate: Curtis E. LeMay School of International Relations)
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To: markomalley

“If police enter a home illegally, the courts are the proper place to protest it, Justice Steven David said.”

Nope. Freedom that must be ajudicated in a courtroom is not freedom. Rather it is license to the state to do as they damn well please. If armed men entering a home illeagaly is not an escalation of “violence” then I don’t know what is. Iknow what I would do if I felt the state treating me like some kind of cockroach.


21 posted on 05/14/2011 4:38:11 AM PDT by TalBlack ( Evil doesn't have a day job.)
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To: markomalley
Is this the same court that reached the laughable conclusion after the fact, that Obama was eligible for office because he was a 14th Amendment citizen, but tried to cover themselves in dicta by saying that, in Wong Kim Ark, the USSC decision upon which they relied, Mr. Wong was not determined to be a natural born citizen?

Sounds like the Indiana Supreme Court has a few a priori considerations and is torturing the law to fit them, if so.

22 posted on 05/14/2011 4:38:57 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: TalBlack
Freedom that must be ajudicated in a courtroom is not freedom.

Nicely stated. The notion that our basic liberties must be dispensed by the courts runs afoul of one of the founding principles of our Republic, that as a free people we have unalienable rights, and those are endowed to us by our Creator and are not granted by an agency of the government. This has to go to the USSC and be overturned, otherwise we're all in a bad way.

23 posted on 05/14/2011 4:52:16 AM PDT by chimera
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To: markomalley

If the court feels that way then perhaps they could put their money where their mouth is and provide a cheap, easy way for the aggrieved citizen to get them to consider a case. As it is now the deck is stacked against the common guy who is the victim of either an honest mistake or outright excessive force. Between the jurisdiction, and the union that represents the law enforcement entity, it’s all but impossible to seek, let alone actually get, redress for harm.

I have a cousin who spent the day in jail because he snapped a picture, from his front porch, of a crime scene and declined to surrender the exposed film without a court order. No local attorney would touch the case for fear of reprisal from the police, and the nearest attorney would consider taking the case wanted money, lots of it, up front.

A law that is to expensive for the average person to use in his or her defense is the same as no law at all for that person.


24 posted on 05/14/2011 4:52:33 AM PDT by jwparkerjr (I would rather lose with Sarah than win with a RINO!)
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To: markomalley

4th Amendment? What 4th Amendment?


25 posted on 05/14/2011 4:57:07 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: RWB Patriot

The police state coming to a neighborhood near you, and they said alex jones was crazy


26 posted on 05/14/2011 5:00:17 AM PDT by ronnie raygun (V)
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To: markomalley

I do not grant the government that right, period.


27 posted on 05/14/2011 5:02:31 AM PDT by Wpin ("I Have Sworn Upon the Altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny...")
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To: markomalley
contending that allowing residents to resist officers

I am of two minds depending on what "resist" means. If it means deadly force then I might be inclined to agree that the use of deadly force would not be a proper response. If it means locking the door and refusing entry and using non deadly means then I would think that is reasonable.

If however, the person has reason to believe the officers might do them or their property physical harm then the resident should have the right to protect themselves.

28 posted on 05/14/2011 5:07:20 AM PDT by Raycpa
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To: Wpin

Movin on up................to .30 cal. If I’m goin to jail anyway, might as well make it for something worthwhile.

After they get a few of the rogue cops shot and buried, it will go to the SCOUTS and get thrown out. The Gestapo feels a need to martyr a few of its own first.


29 posted on 05/14/2011 5:07:53 AM PDT by Concho (-)
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To: Haiku Guy

You’ve been reminded repeatedly that Congress approved lethal action against bin Laden years ago.


30 posted on 05/14/2011 5:15:57 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: markomalley

“”We also find that allowing resistance unnecessarily escalates the level of violence...”

Allowing resistance?


31 posted on 05/14/2011 5:20:40 AM PDT by APatientMan (Pick a side)
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To: markomalley

“(Indiana) Court: No right to resist unlawful police entry”

Another reminder of Nazi Germany!!


32 posted on 05/14/2011 5:25:39 AM PDT by kenmcg (pROBLEM)
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To: markomalley

Nazi Germany!!


33 posted on 05/14/2011 5:27:20 AM PDT by kenmcg (pROBLEM)
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To: markomalley

On Tuesday, the court said police serving a warrant may enter a home without knocking if officers decide circumstances justify it. Previously, police serving a warrant had to obtain a judge’s permission to enter without knocking.


34 posted on 05/14/2011 5:29:05 AM PDT by EBH ( Whether you eat your bread or see it vanish into a looter's stomach, is an absolute.)
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To: RWB Patriot

Mostly dead ones.


35 posted on 05/14/2011 5:30:17 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Ladies and Gentlemen the _resident of the untied States!!)
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To: Flintlock
5.56mm greenies slice through a vest like it was made from toilet paper.
36 posted on 05/14/2011 5:31:14 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Ladies and Gentlemen the _resident of the untied States!!)
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To: Berlin_Freeper
No one from my family has ever had the blue frozen stuff from a plane fall on them in like 3,000 years. Does not mean it never happens. Stupid analogy.
37 posted on 05/14/2011 5:33:12 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Ladies and Gentlemen the _resident of the untied States!!)
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To: Wolfie
Please tell me you forgot the sarcasm tag.
38 posted on 05/14/2011 5:34:24 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Ladies and Gentlemen the _resident of the untied States!!)
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To: markomalley
Absolutely unbelievable. What has our country become? Soviet Union? Cuba? North Korea?

When will this madness end?

39 posted on 05/14/2011 5:36:44 AM PDT by OldCorps
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To: markomalley
and who pays for protesting homeowners litigation? A victim may well not have funds to seek relief in court.
40 posted on 05/14/2011 5:38:20 AM PDT by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-Qaeda" and its allies.)
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To: Tallguy

Interesting comment at the link...

“...this new law”

I don’t want to register to dispute the fact the judge is legislating from the bench. There is no codified “new law.”

This ruling is horribly bad.

I’ve been a victim of a violent crime in my own home...intruders will be shot first and asked questions later.

If you knock on my door claiming to be ‘officers’ and I resist your inquiry by demanding dispatch proof you are real officers at my home...and you proceed to force entry...you will be shot.


41 posted on 05/14/2011 5:39:45 AM PDT by EBH ( Whether you eat your bread or see it vanish into a looter's stomach, is an absolute.)
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To: mad_as_he$$
This case is not about any right to use deadly force. It is far, far worse, for it rejects even the right to "reasonable" resistance. And it turns out most of us already lost this right long ago.

From the opinion:

The English common-law right to resist unlawful police action existed for over three hundred years, and some scholars trace its origin to the Magna Carta in 1215. Craig Hemmens & Daniel Levin, ―Not a Law at All‖: A Call for the Return to the Common Law Right to Resist Unlawful Arrest, 29 Sw. U. L. Rev. 1, 9 (1999). The United States Supreme Court recognized this right in Bad Elk v. United States, 177 U.S. 529, 535 (1900): ―If the officer had no right to arrest, the other party might resist the illegal attempt to arrest him, using no more force than was absolutely necessary to repel the assault constituting the attempt to arrest.‖ The Supreme Court has affirmed this right as recently as 1948. United States v. Di Re, 332 U.S. 581, 594 (1948)(―One has an undoubted right to resist an unlawful arrest, and courts will uphold the right of resistance in proper cases.‖).

In the 1920s, legal scholarship began criticizing the right as valuing individual liberty over physical security of the officers. Hemmens & Levin, supra, at 18. One scholar noted that the common-law right came from a time where ―resistance to an arrest by a peace officer did not involve the serious dangers it does today.‖ Sam B. Warner, The Uniform Arrest Act, 28 Va. L. Rev. 315, 330 (1942). The Model Penal Code eliminated the right on two grounds: ―(1) the development of alternate remedies for an aggrieved arrestee, and (2) the use of force by the arrestee was likely to result in greater injury to the person without preventing the arrest.‖ Hemmens & Levin, supra, at 23. In response to this criticism, a majority of states have abolished the right via statutes in the 1940s and judicial opinions in the 1960s. Id. at 24–25.

42 posted on 05/14/2011 5:40:53 AM PDT by Buchal ("Two wings of the same bird of prey . . .")
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To: markomalley

The cities, along with their rootless atomized urban lifestyle are responsible for producing and enabling the police state, welfare state, Marxism, communist and entitlement mentalities.


43 posted on 05/14/2011 5:43:23 AM PDT by JadeEmperor
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To: markomalley
...is incompatible with modern Fourth Amendment jurisprudence...

????

????

MODERN????

what Constitution do these guys read?

44 posted on 05/14/2011 5:44:42 AM PDT by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: EBH
"If you knock on my door claiming to be ‘officers’ and I resist your inquiry by demanding dispatch proof you are real officers at my home...and you proceed to force entry...you will be shot."
Do you seriously think your buckshot or .30 cal or whatever is going win against a fire team wearing armor, NVS goglles, secure comms? Even military training without the miliary grade weapons, comms and equipment, won't help you, just as it did not help this Marine (see the link.) http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2719700/posts
45 posted on 05/14/2011 5:48:55 AM PDT by JadeEmperor
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To: Buchal
I understand that. However, it then becomes MAD. If I believe that the cops are going to kill me in my own home (like the Marine in Tucson) then I am taking as many of them with me as I can. The more times cops kill people in their own home (and the more times it turns out it was a “mistake”) the more cops that will be killed on raids.

Soon it just becomes open warfare ala many parts of Los Angeles. In that scenario all cops lose. Then the cops will escalate to even more paramilitary operations and more citizens and cops will be killed. This could get out of hand very fast.

The other thing I wonder about is the castle doctrine that many States have. Witnesses to the Tucson murder are saying the cops never identified them selves. As far as I am concerned it is a free fire zone if you are trying to break into my home and do not identify yourself.

46 posted on 05/14/2011 5:50:27 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Ladies and Gentlemen the _resident of the untied States!!)
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To: JadeEmperor

body armour may contain 7.62X39 and smaller...but will be like tissue paper to .30-06 and bigger...

see #46...this crap needs to end....


47 posted on 05/14/2011 5:58:07 AM PDT by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: mad_as_he$$
My point was that it rarely happens. If I wanted to say it never happens then I would have posted: “It never happens.”
48 posted on 05/14/2011 6:06:10 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper (Obama can't see something pure like the truth without wanting to abort it.)
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To: markomalley
The Obama DOJ will spend billions of taxpayer dollars to bankrupt into submission states that exercise their 10th Amendment Rights (like AZ and illegal immigration) but they won't touch this one.
In fact the Holder SS will use the precedent of this ruling to expedite the long planned “Night and Fog” operations when “The One” wins reelection.
49 posted on 05/14/2011 6:07:56 AM PDT by Happy Rain ("In 2012,the race card is going to make folks say one thing and vote another.")
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; Delacon; ...

Thanks markomalley.
...contending that allowing residents to resist officers who enter their homes without any right would increase the risk of violent confrontation. If police enter a home illegally, the courts are the proper place to protest it, Justice Steven David said.

50 posted on 05/14/2011 6:11:25 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Thanks Cincinna for this link -- http://www.friendsofitamar.org)
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