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Zero tolerance or lack of common sense?
wjla.com ^ | 10 May 2011 | Brad Bell

Posted on 05/14/2011 3:14:21 PM PDT by smokingfrog

Graham Dennis was handcuffed, fingerprinted and charged with possession of a deadly weapon. He was also suspended from school for 10 days. Casey Edsall was accused of having an explosive on school property. He got a one day suspension.

The Eaton High juniors play lacrosse. The explosive device was a lighter. The deadly weapon was a pocket knife. Both are tools the boys use to maintain their lacrosse sticks.

“I tore a couple white strings on the side and I had to replace them with black strings,” said Dennis. “I cut them and burn them there. If I don't cut them and burn them, they fray.”

School administrators heard that explanation, but their zero-tolerance policy doesn’t allow for exceptions. The boys and their parents said that’s absurd.

“I feel like common sense should've come into play,” said Casey Edsall. “And I think it was outrageous, the claims that they made.”

Graham finished his suspension last week. Both boys are back playing and practicing with the team. A coach now carried a tool box for stick maintenance.

But they worry about the next student who gets caught up in a zero-tolerance issue. And they worry about lasting damage to their futures.

(Excerpt) Read more at wjla.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Maryland
KEYWORDS: arth; easternshore; zerotolerance
Video at link.

Seems like the guy with the explosive device should have gotten a more severe punishment. He could have killed hundreds. /s

1 posted on 05/14/2011 3:14:26 PM PDT by smokingfrog
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To: smokingfrog

This sort of stupidity is rampant in the public schools. Small wonder as they are generally run by liberals.


2 posted on 05/14/2011 3:17:33 PM PDT by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: smokingfrog

The QUESTION MARK in the title is absurd. Of course the whole concept is CRAZY. Put a liberal in charge and you get loss of freedom, idiotic constraints AND you get destruction of our society.

It is past time to put these idiots known as liberals out of power.


3 posted on 05/14/2011 3:19:45 PM PDT by politicianslie (Obama thinks you're a fool)
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To: smokingfrog

It’s stupidity, yes, but it’s also about covering one’s ass. The consequences of failing to discipline rulebreakers is sometimes greater than the offence of breaking rules in the first place.


4 posted on 05/14/2011 3:23:25 PM PDT by rickmichaels
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To: Scotsman will be Free

“This sort of stupidity is rampant in the public schools. Small wonder as they are generally run by liberals.”

Every time someone says or does something really stupid at work, one of the guys there says “you voted for Obama, didn’t you?


5 posted on 05/14/2011 3:23:28 PM PDT by jessduntno (Liberalism is socialism in a party dress. And just as masculine.)
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To: smokingfrog
"Zero tolerance" is a way of making kids who aren't Eric Holder's people look as bad as the kids who are Eric Holder's people.

In order to do that, you have to criminalize non-criminal behavior.

Just like it's not fair that so many blacks are in prison. Never mind the fact that they are 12% of the population but commit 50% of the murders. That's irrelevant. They should only be 12% of the prison population, because it's just not fair otherwise.

6 posted on 05/14/2011 3:25:08 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Islamophobia: The fear of offending Muslims because they are prone to violence.)
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To: smokingfrog

I once reamed out a school board member over a similar incident with a kid who had forgotten that he’d brought a Swiss Army knife to a school related event. He turned it in and got in trouble over that. Mind you, this was shortly after the zero tolerance rule had been passed. The kid did the appropriate thing and got punished for it. The kid was also a martial arts expert and, fortunately, did not get kicked out for bringing himself, an instrument of potentially deadly force, to school. The rule is as silly as most school board members.


7 posted on 05/14/2011 3:25:24 PM PDT by Marty
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To: smokingfrog

The sad thing is that these kids are gonna have to go out in the real world some day.....totally unprepared.


8 posted on 05/14/2011 3:26:17 PM PDT by JoeDetweiler
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To: smokingfrog
RE: the header:

"Zero tolerance or IS lack of common sense"

There. Fixed it.

9 posted on 05/14/2011 3:27:40 PM PDT by Finny ("Raise hell. Vote smart." -- Ted Nugent)
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To: JoeDetweiler

Unprepared, indeed. The kids are also sitting ducks in an area where any sort of weaponry is denied them in case of trouble. Fortunately, many of them are capable of thinking outside the box and weaponizing whatever comes to hand. Those are the kids who will defend others, who will help others escape and generally save lives.


10 posted on 05/14/2011 3:32:12 PM PDT by Marty
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To: smokingfrog

Zero tolerance IS lack of common sense. Idiots.

School administrators are the least accountable people on the planet. That’s why so many of them are such idiots.

There are good school admins, but few and far between...


11 posted on 05/14/2011 3:32:36 PM PDT by piytar (Obama opposed every tool used to get Osama. So of course he gets the credit. /hurl)
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To: JoeDetweiler

” these kids are gonna have to go out in the real world some day.....totally unprepared. “

Well, since the ‘real world’ is rapidly transforming into the ‘brave new world’ where any person can be arbitrarily apprehended and punished for trumped-up reasons, or for no discernable reasons — I’d say that these kids have learned a valuable lesson and are better prepared to go forth and cower....


12 posted on 05/14/2011 3:33:08 PM PDT by Uncle Ike (Rope is cheap, and there are lots of trees...)
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To: jessduntno

Sounds like a fun workplace. :)


13 posted on 05/14/2011 3:34:48 PM PDT by Politicalmom (Herman Cain did NOT support TARP, and he did NOT say the Federal Reserve should not be audited.)
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To: smokingfrog

When I was in high school, there were some older students who were on the volunteer fire department or the volunteer rescue squad. The latter had some decent kits in the back of their cars. Back then if there was an accident in the shop class, the first aid squad would have been called, but either the principal or the school nurse would have called the some of the students with the kits. These HS seniors on the rescue squad were competent - my father was an EMT instructor and these kids were some of his students.

These days the same students would be arrested under zero tolerance policies.


14 posted on 05/14/2011 3:35:23 PM PDT by Fred Hayek (All Hail the No Talent Pop Star pResident.)
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To: smokingfrog

Perhaps a female school administrator should be busted for prostitution since she’s carrying around a woo woo!


15 posted on 05/14/2011 3:40:15 PM PDT by BigDaddyTX (Don't Mex with Texas)
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To: smokingfrog
Good grief. What if he was using wood stick matches? (Ever stuff an empty shotgun shell full of match heads? heheheh) The libtards are nucking futs.
16 posted on 05/14/2011 3:40:42 PM PDT by 50cal Smokepole (Effective gun control involves effective recoil management)
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To: Scotsman will be Free

A teacher can’t give a 14 year old girl aspirin without parental approval, but the school nurse can refer the girl for an abortion...


17 posted on 05/14/2011 3:42:40 PM PDT by BwanaNdege ("Experience is the best teacher, but if you can accept it 2nd hand, the tuition is less." M Rosen)
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: smokingfrog

Just stop all high school sports. It’s a money waster anyway.


19 posted on 05/14/2011 3:46:49 PM PDT by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: 50cal Smokepole

Done that with spent Co2 cartridges ... dangerous and they make a big boom and the metal casing flies off in all kinds of directions. We would set them off in concrete culverts.


20 posted on 05/14/2011 3:50:42 PM PDT by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: Scotsman will be Free

Have you read what happened in Shelton, CT, this week? A kid got suspended for sticking letters up on a wall asking his girlfriend to go to the prom. Of course, the principal (or “headmaster”, can you believe that?) came down on him like a ton of bricks. The press got hold of the story and it went viral. In fact, it went international. Facebook pages popped up all over the place, absolutely excoriating the “headmaster,” who is a woman (some people even debated that). They let her have it, calling her the B word, and some even the C word. It was really very nasty, but people were outraged. The school’s e-mail went down, the phone system went down, the mayor got involved, a couple of state legislators got involved, half the world got involved, and it wasn’t pretty.

The administration tried to stop the kids from talking to the press and discussing the matter on social sites, threatening to suspend them. The kids basically told the administrators to screw off. Some even talked to the press on school property. The boy involved gave interviews — appearing on the Today Show, Fox, CNN and Jimmy Kimmel.

Students threatened to hold an alternate prom, tons of people on facebook offered to pay for it, and lo and behold, today it was announced that the kid is going to his prom.

So what was the result of this? This Headmaster was made to look like a jerk, her reputation tarnished. She better hope that she makes tenure there because all a future employer has to do is google her name.


21 posted on 05/14/2011 3:55:12 PM PDT by goldi (')
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To: smokingfrog

Zero tolerance is a power grab by the central government to get teachers used to not using their own judgement and instead submitting to a central authority automatically.


22 posted on 05/14/2011 4:02:17 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Islam is the religion of Satan and Mohammed was his minion.)
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To: smokingfrog

To really send these potential terrorists a strong message, they should have sentenced them to at least 10 years. /s


23 posted on 05/14/2011 4:05:11 PM PDT by umgud
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To: Red_Devil 232

Just good, clean American kid fun. Danger is what made it fun. And the boom, smoke and smell. Raising the grandsons to respect boom stuff, and to know how to have fun with it. They’re getting a healthy dose of firearms training too.


24 posted on 05/14/2011 4:11:58 PM PDT by 50cal Smokepole (Effective gun control involves effective recoil management)
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To: Scotsman will be Free
I've been saying this since the idiots who run the schools introduced a Zero Tolerance policy 15 years ago!

I was asked to help out one summer collating the New Zero Tolerance policy manual, since I was a school volunteer and substitute school secretary at the time.

I thought it was absolute liberal BS then and now!

25 posted on 05/14/2011 4:18:17 PM PDT by alice_in_bubbaland (DeMint/Ryan 2012!!!!!)
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To: metmom; wintertime

More and more people are refusing to enroll their children in public schools. Perhaps we are seeing the beginning of the end of public education.


26 posted on 05/14/2011 4:28:39 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued (Muslims are a people of love, peace, and goodwill, and if you say that they aren't, they'll kill you)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
Look here a minute. Let's be reasonable. No one is going to mistake the local school administration for a "central government".

Going a step further, we really don't have to anticipate these school board nazis and their running dog lackeys to march down the streets and take over everything ~ they aren't smart enough for one thing, and we have a plentitude of things we can do to put an end to that march!

(No discussion needed).

So, what is it that's going on where you have a school administrator thinking a cigarette lighter is AN EXPLOSIVE DEVICE?

What that has to do with is the fact they took his away and wouldn't let him carry it on an airplane. He doesn't know, and probably wouldn't understand anyway, but there are TWO different transportation hazardous material standards in this country. One is for SURFACE and one is for AIR.

Even there some things that would otherwise be prohibited from air transport could have a "permissible quantity" so you always have to check the NTSB standards to see what that might be.

There are also security restrictions, so even though your basic box cutter isn't likely to blow up we do have a history of problems (911 springs to mind) with them so their carriage by passengers on their persons is restricted.

The school administrators are acting on POPULAR BELIEF, not federal standards, and when it comes to the determination of what is or is not dangerous for transport or storage under various conditions you need to refer to the appropriate federal standards.

(NOTE: Constitution says ".... weights and measures...." are a federal deal ~ and certainly the determination of "permissible quantities" of otherwise dangerous materials falls under the "measures" clause ~ if you want to argue that out, do it some other time in a different place ~ we have a point to make here).

So, we have some local school administration telling students that they are subject to maximum punishment because, lo and behold, they are hauling around a very dangerous EXPLOSIVE, to wit, a cigarette lighter.

Well, it's only determined to be "explosive" on airplanes, and that school is not an airplane. If it's in a crate or something it can be restricted from carriage in the mails (I know that one well) on surface transportation ~ so you wanna' see Fed Ex or UPS to have a crate of them hauled somewhere, and even there, some shipments could exceed their standards (based on the federal standards BTW), and you might be redirected to a hazmat carrier ~ where you will pay a bundle and a half!

Yes, yes, yes, hauling around a load of cigarette lighters could be risky so you pay for the risk. Hauling around one cigarette lighter in a school is NOT defined as a hazmat situation in the only pertinent regulations ~ to wit, those issued by the federal government.

So who are these school twits dictating local changes to federal standards regarding hazmat?

I say they are IDIOTS ~ and Eric Holder should be down their beating them into the ground.

27 posted on 05/14/2011 4:39:19 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: smokingfrog

This lack of common sense among school personnel is truly mind-boggling. Do a subject search for “zero tolerance” on FR and you will find hundreds of similar situations from schools in all parts of the US.


28 posted on 05/14/2011 4:40:53 PM PDT by Fiji Hill
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

I actually think that the schools are trying to meet quotas. Lately I have been reading that school districts are now requiring racial parity in suspensions. So, if too many black children are suspended/expelled, then some white children have to be suspended on trumped up charges to bring their numbers up. Just about every one of these ‘zero tolerance’ cases involves whites.


29 posted on 05/14/2011 5:01:27 PM PDT by sportutegrl
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To: smokingfrog

Lack of common sense? This is a pedophile program... it’s menat to make people think they are stupid and cannot think nor speak about anything.


30 posted on 05/14/2011 5:02:30 PM PDT by JudgemAll (Democrats Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: sportutegrl
The way to solve the entire problem is to abolish "public" education.

If you want your kid to go to school, enroll him in a private school and pay for it.

If you don't want your kid to go to school, fine.

When half the kids graduating from inner-city schools are functional illiterates, it really doesn't matter that they had a free government school education available to them, since they squandered the opportunity.

31 posted on 05/14/2011 5:05:57 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Islamophobia: The fear of offending Muslims because they are prone to violence.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

WE used to take our shotguns to school to try to kill supper on the way walking home. Ofcourse I’m an old man and lived ina rural area. Funny, our guns never got involved in any ofthe fights we had.


32 posted on 05/14/2011 5:18:17 PM PDT by oldasrocks (They should lock all of you up and only let out us properly medicated people.)
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To: smokingfrog
School administrators heard that explanation, but their zero-tolerance policy doesn’t allow for exceptions.

Zero tolerance needs to be attacked at it's root - as personal lawsuits and criminal charges against administrators and teachers for abuse of power under color of authority, and for lack of authority from the refusal to uphold professional responsibility.

States and the Fed need to pass laws declaring "tolerance" inherent in all teaching of any kind whatsoever and "zero tolerance" a crime. Personal responsibility needs to hang over these cruel hypocrites at all times, and indemnification must be denied for any blanket decision by a teacher or administrator.

Once some of these arrogant jerks are in jail, the rest will knock this abuse off. Teachers and administrators have become vicious collectivist kapos, and need to be reigned in - hard. Even talking to them as an adult has become impossible, as they literally sneer and strut. Seeing the stupidest, raised as high as possible, is an ugly thing.

33 posted on 05/14/2011 5:18:59 PM PDT by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on its own.)
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To: Clintonfatigued

It is discouraging to read the posts from conservatives. If they can’t understand that socialism, collectivism, and voter mob management is the heart and soul of government education, and if they continue with the vain hope of possible government school reform then we have a long way to go. Government schooling will be with us for many more decades.


34 posted on 05/14/2011 5:24:01 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: wintertime
I think they started in the schools to see just how much we are willing to put up with...now they're storming homes and killing innocents.
35 posted on 05/14/2011 5:32:20 PM PDT by Cowgirl
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

It really says something about the quality of government work when people refuse something that is offered for free (public education).


36 posted on 05/14/2011 5:32:38 PM PDT by sportutegrl
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To: smokingfrog

We now live in a nation run mostly by pussified men and clueless liberal women.

The main perpetrators of this particular injustice are supposed to be educated but are actually clueless idiots who can’t (or don’t want to) distinguish the threat differential between a $1.00 cigarette lighter and a block of C4.

How can society trust people like this to teach students how to make sensible and valid judgments? The truth is they can’t teach it because they are incapable of doing it themselves.


37 posted on 05/14/2011 5:56:11 PM PDT by Iron Munro (Every day we now throw away things people will kill for after TEOTWAWKI)
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To: smokingfrog

My first reponse was of course - “liberal idiots”.

Second response was “gee - I need to take the tools out of my kids’ lax bags” - (what these guys had was super common.)

Then I relaized - I could walk in to pick my kid up from school with my cigar lighter in my pocket - accidentally of course, no intent to ignite the “explosive device” - WTF would these knumbskulls do - arest me?

Every dad in the city - needs to go down to school property - and light up a cigar.

And as I write that - evil anti-extablishment comment - I realize - they probably have “no smoking on school grounds” law enforcement.

And it is right about there - that I start to realize what we have lost.

Maybe the dads need to go to school -light their cigars - but not smoke them.


38 posted on 05/14/2011 5:57:17 PM PDT by Eldon Tyrell
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To: Clintonfatigued; 2Jedismom; 6amgelsmama; AAABEST; aberaussie; Aggie Mama; agrace; AliVeritas; ...

ANOTHER REASON TO HOMESCHOOL

This ping list is for the “other” articles of interest to homeschoolers about education and public school. This can occasionally be a fairly high volume list. Articles pinged to the Another Reason to Homeschool List will be given the keyword of ARTH. (If I remember. If I forget, please feel free to add it yourself)

The main Homeschool Ping List handles the homeschool-specific articles. I hold both the Homeschool Ping List and the Another Reason to Homeschool Ping list. Please freepmail me to let me know if you would like to be added to or removed from either list, or both.

39 posted on 05/14/2011 6:19:22 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Iron Munro
How can society trust people like this to teach students how to make sensible and valid judgments? The truth is they can’t teach it because they are incapable of doing it themselves.

100% correct.

Go to the head of the class.

40 posted on 05/14/2011 6:31:46 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open ( <o> ---)
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To: smokingfrog

zero tolerance == lack of common sense.

that’s the whole point behind zero tolerance. You no longer are allowed to think or use common sense - you must enforce ‘zero tolerance’ for whatever it is.


41 posted on 05/14/2011 6:45:48 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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Public schools are not safe for children or other living things. The bad far outweighs any good in public education today. The first step to fixing it is to abolish the Department of Education. The next is to eliminate forced union membership of teachers.


42 posted on 05/14/2011 7:16:04 PM PDT by Jenny217
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To: goldi

43 posted on 05/14/2011 7:44:10 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (Monarchy is the one system of government where power is exercised for the good of all - Aristotle)
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To: smokingfrog; Abundy; Albion Wilde; AlwaysFree; AnnaSASsyFR; bayliving; BFM; cindy-true-supporter; ..

Tragic.

Someday, somebody will snap, drag one of these bureaucrats out into the street, and beat him hard.

“I had no choice.” Boo-hoo.

Maryland “Freak State” PING!


44 posted on 05/15/2011 1:10:02 AM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (I hate politically correct sorosmonkey superheroes!)
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To: smokingfrog; Abundy; Albion Wilde; AlwaysFree; AnnaSASsyFR; bayliving; BFM; cindy-true-supporter; ..

Tragic.

Someday, somebody will snap, drag one of these bureaucrats out into the street, and beat him hard.

“I had no choice.” Boo-hoo.

Maryland “Freak State” PING!


45 posted on 05/15/2011 1:12:44 AM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (I hate politically correct sorosmonkey superheroes!)
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To: goldi

LOL! It is amazing the stupid things that liberals whip themselves in to a frenzy about, then turn around and ignore what’s important.


46 posted on 05/15/2011 4:01:54 AM PDT by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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