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Death of a church ('Embarrased' by Jesus)
The National Post ^ | 05/15/2011 | Charles Lewis

Posted on 05/15/2011 8:09:47 AM PDT by mkleesma

The United Church of Canada, which was formed 86 years ago with the grand vision to bring Protestants together “in one glorious national church,” is undergoing one of the most precipitous slides in modern religious history.

In the midst of a breathtaking erosion in its membership, the church is undertaking what some call a great experiment to redefine itself through an intense engagement with the surrounding secular world; whether it be through advocating for the environment, fighting for the rights of homosexuals to marry or taking on the cause of the Palestinians, the church has attempted to blur the boundaries between religion and the broader society.

Supporters believe this strategy will eventually right the ship because they are following the word of God to engage in the world. To others, though, the United Church is engaged in a self-destructive act, aiming to be so many things to so many people that it will morph into just another social advocacy group disconnected from 2,000 years of Christian tradition. Critics say there is a severe lack of orthodoxy, lax demands on belief and even too much latitude for ministers who can question the existence of God and the divinity of Christ.

Connie denBok, a United Church minister in Toronto, is among those who despair that the church has become so much of the world, so focused on popular issues, that it is evolving away from the core of Christianity.

“In the 1960s and ’70s we became embarrassed about Jesus. And so we distanced ourselves from Jesus, and the point is without Jesus there’s no point in having a church. iTunes has better music and the NDP has better policies; everything else we do now somebody else does way better. The only thing we can do is this Jesus thing,” she said.

(Excerpt) Read more at life.nationalpost.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: church; secularism
Stop me if you've heard this one before - church turns away from Scriptures, and loses most of its members. Gee, why am I not surprised.
1 posted on 05/15/2011 8:09:58 AM PDT by mkleesma
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To: mkleesma

Religion without God is not successful?

What a surprise!


2 posted on 05/15/2011 8:15:22 AM PDT by proxy_user
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To: mkleesma

This is a trend in many mainline churches in the USA as well. The Prysbyterian Church USA just this week voted to endorse gay and lesbians being ordained into ministry.
The slide to sin continues.


3 posted on 05/15/2011 8:15:40 AM PDT by lexington minuteman 1775
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To: lexington minuteman 1775

Flash: This just in. The United Church of Canada buckled to its dyslexic members demands to change the name of the organization to The Untied Cruchh of Nacada.


4 posted on 05/15/2011 8:23:19 AM PDT by MIchaelTArchangel (Obama makes me miss Jimmah Cahtah!)
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To: mkleesma

The reason the church lives is because it doesn’t adapt itself to the world, but teaches the truth of God’s word.

It is precisely because of the sin of the world that God came to earth, and birthed the church. For the church to turn around and accept the very sin it is here to keep people away from is bizarre. A clear victory for the enemy of our souls.


5 posted on 05/15/2011 8:26:57 AM PDT by JudyinCanada
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To: lexington minuteman 1775

Well thanks to the Catholic Church Christianity will carry on in the dark times ahead.


6 posted on 05/15/2011 8:26:57 AM PDT by utherdoul
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To: mkleesma

ANY church that supports sexual deviancy in their teachings and beliefs is not really a “church.” The term church denotes Christianity. There are many more than this one. These are simply atheistic leftists pretending to be Christian religious in order to erode real Christianity and it is working for many of the weak denominations and their adherents. Many will perish as a result. No church is immune from these attacks. All denominations are experiencing these attacks. Only the strong faithed will survive.


7 posted on 05/15/2011 8:37:56 AM PDT by jacknhoo (Luke 12:51. Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation.)
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To: utherdoul

These loons don’t represent all the good non-Catholic Christians. The problem is that the loons take over these churches and get to keep the name. I wish there was a way that the conservative Christians would get to keep the name and the loons would have to call themselves something else.

And I agree with you about the Church.

Freegards


8 posted on 05/15/2011 8:46:37 AM PDT by Ransomed
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To: mkleesma

Read Matthew chapter 7
Seems pretty clear to me. Especially verse 23.


9 posted on 05/15/2011 8:49:20 AM PDT by Nonsense Unlimited
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To: JudyinCanada
"It is precisely because of the sin of the world that God came to earth, and birthed the church. For the church to turn around and accept the very sin it is here to keep people away from is bizarre. A clear victory for the enemy of our souls.

In the "visible" (temporal) church are both tares and wheat growing together.

The true Church is invisible. The gates of hell cannot "gain victory" over it.

10 posted on 05/15/2011 8:57:23 AM PDT by Matchett-PI ("Freedom's Just Another Word For Nothing Left to Tax " ~ Gagdad Bob)
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To: mkleesma

“Our team is going to continue to play soccer, but we’re not really so interested in being confined by the requirement that we use a ball.”


11 posted on 05/15/2011 9:02:43 AM PDT by dagogo redux (A whiff of primitive spirits in the air, harbingers of an impending descent into the feral.)
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To: mkleesma
the point is without Jesus there’s no point in having a church

This needs to be repeated again and again. Too many 'churchgoers' today have lost sight of that simple yet crucial fact.


12 posted on 05/15/2011 9:06:49 AM PDT by reagan_fanatic (A communist is just a liberal in a hurry)
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To: mkleesma

13 posted on 05/15/2011 9:19:26 AM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: mkleesma

Maybe they’ll change the name to “The United Unchurch of Canada and Ping Pong League.”


14 posted on 05/15/2011 9:38:52 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: mkleesma

Like when the Catholics went hippie liberal.
Or, when the GOP moves away from the conservative base. Everytime the GOP goes to the center, they lose.


15 posted on 05/15/2011 9:42:38 AM PDT by Yorlik803 (better to die on your feet than live on your knees.)
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To: mkleesma
Stop me if you've heard this one before - church turns away from Scriptures, and loses most of its members. Gee, why am I not surprised.

and to top it off, Canada is secularist and socialist hole, whose brave-new morality is written by the Leftist elites there. Any 'church' that cooperates or buys-into the present society in Canada is doomed and will be gone within a generation.

16 posted on 05/15/2011 9:51:26 AM PDT by PGR88 (I'm so open-minded my brains fell out)
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To: mkleesma
I think one of the big problems with established churches is that in the process of trying to behave as good Christians they end up losing sight of the true meaning and purpose of Christianity, forsaking the spiritual ends for material ones. Money becomes an indispensible element of their works, and when the funds dry up they look wherever they can to replenish them. I would counsel them (if they would listen to me) that charity and benevolence, while signs of Christianity, are not the purpose of Christianity.
17 posted on 05/15/2011 10:29:38 AM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: Matchett-PI

Funny that. Half of that statement is biblical. The other half is not.

Matthew 5:15

Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house.


18 posted on 05/15/2011 10:41:12 AM PDT by BenKenobi
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To: MIchaelTArchangel
Flash: This just in. The United Church of Canada buckled to its dyslexic members demands to change the name of the organization to The Untied Cruchh of Nacada.

Do they at least believe in doG?

19 posted on 05/15/2011 11:15:32 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (Eccl 10:19 A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.)
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To: BenKenobi
"Funny that. Half of that statement is biblical. The other half is not. Matthew 5:15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house."

Really? Since when are the "Wheat" able to give light to the "Tares" in the visible church?

"But he said, `No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 'Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn" (Matt. 13:29-30; see also vv. 49-50).

20 posted on 05/15/2011 11:34:39 AM PDT by Matchett-PI ("Freedom's Just Another Word For Nothing Left to Tax " ~ Gagdad Bob)
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To: Matchett-PI

I see no biblical support whatsoever for the concept of an ‘invisible’ church. There’s nothing there.

Quite the opposite. Christians are called to be public in their faith and their support of Christ, for the good of the Church and for society in general.

Our public divisions are not enlightening anyone towards Christ.

You’ve missed the point of your citation. Do you really believe that Christ gave you the responsibility of dividing the wheat from the tares? No that is his responsibility, and that will occur at judgement.

By declaring us the tares, you have usurped Christ.


21 posted on 05/15/2011 12:17:16 PM PDT by BenKenobi
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To: mkleesma
"She says the United Church is fighting for “climate justice.”

Never ran across this concept while studying the Bible. But here are some scriptures that might apply to this "church."

"Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron" 1 Tim 4:1-2

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables." 2 Tim 4:3-4

"But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men?" Gal 1:8-10

22 posted on 05/15/2011 12:33:50 PM PDT by Bed_Zeppelin
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To: BenKenobi
You wrote: "I see no biblical support whatsoever for the concept of an ‘invisible’ church. There’s nothing there."

Surely you understand that just because someone attends church and professes to be a "Christian", doesn't mean he's a true Christian.

You wrote: "Quite the opposite. Christians are called to be public in their faith and their support of Christ, for the good of the Church and for society in general."

And you actually think that I'm disagreeing with that? If you do, you're not a careful reader...indeed if you _actually read what I post_ in the first place.

You wrote: "Our public divisions are not enlightening anyone towards Christ."

Oh, yes they are. There can never be agreement between light and darkness neither inside of church organizations or out. (Not all true Christians have involved themselves in "organized religion". "Where two or three are gathered together...")

You wrote: "You’ve missed the point of your citation. Do you really believe that Christ gave you the responsibility of dividing the wheat from the tares? No that is his responsibility, and that will occur at judgement. By declaring us the tares, you have usurped Christ."

Since my post reflected the fact that Christ, at his return, is the One who separates the wheat from the tares (as HE IS THE ONLY ONE who knows the difference), how is it that you can make the absurd statement that I have declared you "tares"???

Sheesh!

23 posted on 05/15/2011 12:55:26 PM PDT by Matchett-PI ("Freedom's Just Another Word For Nothing Left to Tax " ~ Gagdad Bob)
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To: Matchett-PI

“Surely you understand that just because someone attends church and professes to be a “Christian”, doesn’t mean he’s a true Christian.”

Do you have any scriptural evidence for this claim?

“Oh, yes they are.”

No, they aren’t. There’s one head of the Church and that is Christ. There’s just his church, not 1400+ churches that claim to be his.

“There can never be agreement between light and darkness”

So why do you believe that in proclaiming the invisible church that you are in the light? Again, I ask, where is the phrase, church invisible ever used in scripture?

“(Not all true Christians have involved themselves in “organized religion”. “Where two or three are gathered together...”)

“Let us not give up the habit of meeting with one another.”

That’s not exactly invisible, that sounds like visible worship with your fellow believers. That sounds like organization to me. Do you just show up at your house and people show up to worship with you?

“how is it that you can make the absurd statement that I have declared you “tares”???”

You’re still doing it, declaring that those who disagree with you are in darkness, while those who agree with you are in the light.


24 posted on 05/15/2011 1:05:41 PM PDT by BenKenobi
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To: BenKenobi

Look up “obtuse” in the dictionary.


25 posted on 05/15/2011 1:20:26 PM PDT by Matchett-PI ("Freedom's Just Another Word For Nothing Left to Tax " ~ Gagdad Bob)
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To: Matchett-PI

So you believe that someone who professes in Christ AND who acts in accordance with his teachings isn’t a ‘true’ Christian.

So who counts?


26 posted on 05/15/2011 1:25:01 PM PDT by BenKenobi
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To: BenKenobi

Go away.


27 posted on 05/15/2011 1:35:19 PM PDT by Matchett-PI ("Freedom's Just Another Word For Nothing Left to Tax " ~ Gagdad Bob)
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To: Matchett-PI

Pity.


28 posted on 05/15/2011 1:48:22 PM PDT by BenKenobi
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To: mkleesma

Tag line


29 posted on 05/15/2011 1:49:33 PM PDT by bmwcyle (It is Satan's fault)
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To: utherdoul

Its members are also becoming more like the world: http://www.peacebyjesus.com/RC-Stats_vs._Evang.html


30 posted on 05/15/2011 7:47:27 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out," Acts 3:19)
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