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James White on Harold Camping and the end of the world
Alpha & Omega Ministries ^ | 05/14/2011 | James White

Posted on 05/16/2011 11:15:20 AM PDT by Choozer

Every time some maverick like Camping decides to go off the reservation and promote a prophecy like this, scorn is brought on all of us who believe Jesus is coming again. The mockery factor will be quite high come Monday the 23rd.

I do not know what Camping is going to do. He has closed every door on his options. He has said the Bible guarantees it. There is no plan B. This is it, plain and simple, no question marks after May 21, 2011? or the like to fall back on. I have thought he might spiritualize it, like Miller did back in 1844 or so, but he has really not left that option open either. He could always claim a blown calculation, but that would leave him without much credibility as a number-cruncher, and his system is nothing if it isn't based on number-crunching. Will he even show up on Open Forum on Monday? I mean, at 89 years of age, you'd think retirement would all of a sudden become a very viable option.

I can't imagine what a Monday, May 23rd, 2011 Open Forum broadcast would be like. Can you imagine the calls? Not only the mockery from unbelievers, but the anger from his own followers? It would probably be the highest rated program ever. Their servers would melt down on the Internet side. But that would be temporary, and one can surely predict the collapse of Family Radio as a result of Camping's second major prophetic failure. One would hope, at least, that finally he would be removed and taken off the air so as to deceive no more. But, you would have thought that would have happened back in 1994. It didn't. There is always an audience for false prophets.

(Excerpt) Read more at aomin.org ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: camping; falseprophecy; falseprophet; judgmentday
Article: http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=4624

Audio: http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=5151113415810
1 posted on 05/16/2011 11:15:25 AM PDT by Choozer
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To: Choozer

Matthew 24:36

“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.


2 posted on 05/16/2011 11:20:28 AM PDT by Red Badger (Jesus said there is no marriage in Heaven. That's why they call it Heaven............)
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To: Choozer

I actually saw a car on Sunday that had this May 21’st thing on a magnetic door sign. I so much wanted to talk to the guy, but we were waiting for a light and I was going one way and he the other.


3 posted on 05/16/2011 11:23:28 AM PDT by RobRoy (The US today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: Choozer

These idiots give Christians a bad name.


4 posted on 05/16/2011 11:25:13 AM PDT by Peter from Rutland
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To: Red Badger

Not only that in explicit statement, but about a dozen parables describing the end of the world coming by surprise; A thief in the night.


5 posted on 05/16/2011 11:25:19 AM PDT by Crazieman (Feb 7, 2008 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1966675/posts?page=28#28)
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To: Choozer

>> There is no plan B.

Well, he *could* be right... after all, Jesus is coming back on *some* date. Maybe Camping will get lucky. :-)

No one but the Father knows.

But all jesting aside... when this subject comes up among fellow believers, I say this:

“How would you live differently if you knew the date certain? What changes would you make in your behavior? Very well — make those changes NOW and begin living NOW like He is coming again in the next ten minutes! Then you’ll be covered NO MATTER WHEN the date really is, and you don’t need to concern yourself with it!”

(Not that I necessarily follow my own advice very well — but I know that’s how I *should* live.)


6 posted on 05/16/2011 11:25:42 AM PDT by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: Choozer

>>I can’t imagine what a Monday, May 23rd, 2011 Open Forum broadcast would be like. Can you imagine the calls? Not only the mockery from unbelievers, but the anger from his own followers?<<

Jahova’s Witnesses used to predict a precise date for the end of the world every so often. They would see their membership swell before the event and then, afterward, eventually drop below its previous levels. They learned from their mistakes and don’t do that any more.

Christianity is NOT about predicting the coming of Christ. It is about being IN Christ. These guys have the cart before the horse. So do legalists, for that matter, but I digress.


7 posted on 05/16/2011 11:26:12 AM PDT by RobRoy (The US today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: RobRoy

I hope you waved good-bye.


8 posted on 05/16/2011 11:28:19 AM PDT by La Lydia ("California: When the parasites outnumber the hosts, it's all over.")
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To: Choozer

He can always fall back on the old excuse for missing the end of the world: the error in math. Oops, now the Rapture is May 29, 2013.

Or maybe the Rapture did occur and just about no one went.

9 posted on 05/16/2011 11:32:09 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! Tea Party extremism is a badge of honor.)
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To: La Lydia

>>I hope you waved good-bye.<<

Interestingly, the car was a 1980’s american full sized car customized only with windows tinted so heavily I could not see inside. That was actually what I noticed before the sign. It was odd.


10 posted on 05/16/2011 11:33:32 AM PDT by RobRoy (The US today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: Choozer

Is James White amillenial?

Is he a preterist?


11 posted on 05/16/2011 11:33:49 AM PDT by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: Choozer

Camping and others may be wrong on their interpretation of prophecy but I find no condemnation for those who eagerly anticipate the coming of Jesus. On the other hand, scripture has much to say about scoffers and none of it is glowing or supportive. Rest assured I will not be joining the scoffers.


12 posted on 05/16/2011 11:35:43 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: KarlInOhio

bttt


13 posted on 05/16/2011 11:36:36 AM PDT by ConservativeMan55
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To: KarlInOhio; Quix

bttt


14 posted on 05/16/2011 11:36:46 AM PDT by ConservativeMan55
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To: Choozer

These people are not idiots. They have been mislead.

When I was a young Christian, I listened to Camping about 1994. I didn’t believe it, but when he taught about it, he was very persuasive.

His first point was that the bible is infallible, inerrant, and every word has purpose. He then lept to even the numbers have meaning. For instance, the disciples pulled in 153 fish. Why would that number be in there, if there was no meaning? There must be a reason.

For the young believer, he spins an incredible web of illogic that can captivate the naive. He’s got charts and papers, and calculations up the whazoo. He makes it sound logical - unless of course, you are an experienced Christian and see how he breaks every law of hermaneutics right and left.

In fact, I got into hermaneutics simply because I knew it was nonsense, but I needed to have a reasoned answer.

He is going to have so much to answer for, when he finally does meet eternity. Because he should know better.

I know this post is long but I thought people might like to really SEE why he is so persuasive to the uneducated:
Here is some Camping stuff:

The number 3 signifies God’s purpose. When the Bible writes about Christ being crucified, the number 3 is featured about 15 times: 3 crosses, 3 apostles, 3 denials by Peter, etc. All of these 3’s are emphasizing it was absolutely God’s purpose that Christ be crucified.

The number 5 signifies the atonement or redemption (that is, Christ died to pay for the sins of those who become saved). This is seen, for example, by the ½ (.5) shekel atonement money which pointed to the atonement. Exodus 30:15 declares:

The rich shall not give more, and the poor shall not give less than half a shekel, when they give an offering unto the LORD, to make an atonement for your souls.

It is seen by the 5 shekels being a picture of redemption, as demonstrated in Numbers 3:47-48:

Thou shalt even take five shekels apiece by the poll, after the shekel of the sanctuary shalt thou take them: (the shekel is twenty gerahs:) And thou shalt give the money, wherewith the odd number of them is to be redeemed, unto Aaron and to his sons.

The number 10 or 100 or 1,000 signifies completeness. For example, the Bible speaks of 10 coins or 100 sheep or 1,000 years. God speaks of Satan being bound 1,000 years in Revelation 20:2-3. However, from much additional Biblical information we know he was bound between the years 33 A.D. and 1988 A.D. These 1,955 actual years are symbolized by 1,000 years. The Bible speaks of Him being bound 1,000 years to signify that He was bound for the completeness of God’s plan, which actually was 1,955 years.

The number 17 frequently signifies “Heaven.” For example, in Jeremiah God describes the destruction of Judah and Jerusalem by the king of Babylon. This was typifying the end of the church age, at which time Satan, typified by the king of Babylon destroying Jerusalem and Judah, would rule in the churches. In that seemingly hopeless context Jeremiah was instructed to buy a field for the purchase price of 17 shekels of silver. God instructed Jeremiah that this purchase of land for 17 shekels was done as a guarantee or demonstration that the time would come that Israel would again occupy Jerusalem. That is, people again would go to Heaven. See Jeremiah 32:7-17.


15 posted on 05/16/2011 12:02:09 PM PDT by I still care (I miss my friends, bagels, and the NYC skyline - but not the taxes. I love the South.)
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To: Nervous Tick

We were discussing this at work once- my thinking is, no I am not going to know beforehand the date/time etc. But I do not need to know. What I do need to do is be as prepared as I can be, so whenever whatever happens, if I am still around, it will not matter.

Am I to that point yet? Nope. But I am working on it.


16 posted on 05/16/2011 12:04:53 PM PDT by handmade
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To: CynicalBear

I’ve noticed they are still asking for donations, even in the last week. Selling God’s Wrath must be a good money-making venture.


17 posted on 05/16/2011 12:07:14 PM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: FReepers
FReepathon Day 46 - CLICK!

18 posted on 05/16/2011 12:08:23 PM PDT by RedMDer (restoration of our honor, dignity, and freedoms will save America. - Sarah Palin)
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To: AppyPappy

>> Selling God’s Wrath must be a good money-making venture.<<

Selling God’s wrath?


19 posted on 05/16/2011 12:17:54 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

Yeah. Read Revelation to see what is going to happen. But if the Rapture is this week, why is he still asking for donations? It’s not like he will have bills to pay next week.


20 posted on 05/16/2011 12:21:06 PM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: Choozer

Camping is the William Miller of the 2000’s. When Jesus does not comply with Camping’s chronology, the date will be reset, and Camping’s followers will dutifully accept the next date... until the 2nd coming does not occur then.. and then they will accept Camping’s reinterpretation.


21 posted on 05/16/2011 12:21:17 PM PDT by Guyin4Os (A messianic ger-tsedek)
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To: Choozer

Does anyone know the exact time on 5-21-11 that the world ends? I sure don’t want to miss it. Do I need a sarcasm tag?


22 posted on 05/16/2011 12:24:52 PM PDT by SVTCobra03 (You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
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To: Nervous Tick

There is no plan B.
And no EXIT STRATEGY.....


23 posted on 05/16/2011 12:27:31 PM PDT by traumer
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To: Choozer

I started listening to Family Radio after seeing a doomsday billboard in San Francisco some weeks ago. Aside from the doomsday sermonizing (which at first I heard very little of but now there is more, of course) it is a very good Christian radio station. Mostly music (and a fantastic selection), straight reading of scripture in nicely-sized chunks, and little sermonizing or fundraising. I am sorry that they are pushing this May 21 stuff. It just makes me sad for them and sorry for the damage it will do to Christianity in general. I don’t wish them ill. I hope they stick with the Bible after May 21, repent their mistakes, and keep broadcasting wonderful music and God’s Word.


24 posted on 05/16/2011 12:37:11 PM PDT by rogue yam
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To: SVTCobra03

I couldn’t find the exact time (the end is suppose to *start* May 21) but, IIRC, 6:00 PM MDST.

What’s really hillarious, we go there for our vacation on that day.


25 posted on 05/16/2011 12:40:41 PM PDT by wolfcreek (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsd7DGqVSIc)
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To: SVTCobra03

Colorado, that is.


26 posted on 05/16/2011 12:41:45 PM PDT by wolfcreek (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsd7DGqVSIc)
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To: Choozer

bttt


27 posted on 05/16/2011 12:50:22 PM PDT by Matchett-PI ("Freedom's Just Another Word For Nothing Left to Tax " ~ Gagdad Bob)
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To: CynicalBear

“but I find no condemnation for those who eagerly anticipate the coming of Jesus.” You are right about that, but Camping has overstepped in predicting Christ’s return on a certain date and his other doctrinal errors which are a clear contradictions to the scriptures. Paul deals with the similar heresy in Thessalonians. False teachers told the Thessalonian church that the Day of the Lord had already come. Paul tells Thessalonians, Christ had not return yet but He would in the future and the believers that died and live believers would meet the Lord in the air.


28 posted on 05/16/2011 12:51:19 PM PDT by Rodm
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To: wolfcreek

“I couldn’t find the exact time (the end is suppose to *start* May 21) but, IIRC, 6:00 PM MDST.”

Thanks. Thank would be 7:00 p.m. where I live and since the sun will be past the yardarm, I will sit on my roof, open up a bottle of 20-year-old Pappy Van Winkle Premium Bourbon and watch the End of the World. Should be quite a show.


29 posted on 05/16/2011 1:13:00 PM PDT by SVTCobra03 (You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
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To: SVTCobra03

Some guy in NY says 6:00 pm. Eastern time on Saturday.


30 posted on 05/16/2011 1:33:29 PM PDT by Vor Lady
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To: wolfcreek
What’s really hillarious, we go there for our vacation on that day.

If you are flying, make sure that either your pilot or copilot is completely debauched and has no chance of being raptured. It would stink to be among the first post-rapture fatalities as your plane crashes. You'll have to wait in line at the Pearly Gates behind all the smug faithful.


31 posted on 05/16/2011 1:43:28 PM PDT by KarlInOhio (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! Tea Party extremism is a badge of honor.)
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To: KarlInOhio
We're flying that morning and should be at our condo by 4:00.

Plenty of time for prayer and remembrance

32 posted on 05/16/2011 1:59:20 PM PDT by wolfcreek (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsd7DGqVSIc)
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To: Choozer

Doesn’t a false prophesy call for a consequence according to the Bible... beyond being labeled a fool?


33 posted on 05/16/2011 2:19:53 PM PDT by The Brush
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To: Choozer

Doesn’t a false prophesy call for a consequence according to the Bible... beyond being labeled a fool?


34 posted on 05/16/2011 2:20:05 PM PDT by The Brush
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To: AppyPappy

Did you not read my original post? I didn’t agree, nor did I defend him. I simply said that though he may be misinterpreting prophecy I would not be among those who scoff. Why do you keep asking me these questions? I don’t know the guy and haven’t even gone to the sight to investigate what he is saying.


35 posted on 05/16/2011 3:34:24 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: The Brush
>> Doesn’t a false prophesy call for a consequence according to the Bible... beyond being labeled a fool?<<

It does, but not for misinterpreting already existing prophecy.

36 posted on 05/16/2011 3:38:39 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: AppyPappy

“I’ve noticed they are still asking for donations...”

Not only are they still asking for “love offerings”, but this morning they gave an address to send away for their program guide, and they gave the weather forecast through Sunday.

That would be Sunday, May 22.

I’m fascinated by this. I have never heard someone paint themselves so far into a corner.


37 posted on 05/16/2011 4:53:17 PM PDT by mrs. a (It's a short life but a merry one...)
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To: Red Badger

In parts of Canada this will be a long weekend with Monday May 23 being celebrated as Victoria Day. It is against the law to end the world on a long weekend in Canada.


38 posted on 05/16/2011 4:59:49 PM PDT by xp38
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To: mrs. a

There is always the possibility that no one gets Raptured because no one was worthy. We just have to wait for Rapture 2: The Sequel.


39 posted on 05/16/2011 6:13:03 PM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: CynicalBear

You don’t scoff a man who is using the Rapture to make money? Who will speak out against the false teachers as Paul did?


40 posted on 05/16/2011 6:14:53 PM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: CynicalBear
Excerpt: After Camping began to work full-time with Family Radio, he spent much time studying the Bible. His knowledge of Bible verses is impressive indeed. But his study of the Bible was undertaken in isolation from other Christians and theologians. He adopted a proud individualism. He did not really learn from Bible scholars. He studied the Bible in isolation from the church and the consensus of the faithful. As a result his understanding of the Bible became more and more idiosyncratic. No one could help, direct, or restrain him. He was really an autodidact, that is, someone who teaches himself. He never really submitted his ideas to be challenged and improved by others. He was truly his only teacher. He has repeatedly said that he would be glad to change his views if he is shown that he is wrong from the Bible. But this humble statement covers a very arrogant attitude, because no one can ever show him that he is wrong. He alone really understands the Bible. Read the full story
41 posted on 05/16/2011 8:09:02 PM PDT by Choozer
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To: mrs. a
Links to debate with Camping and many other resources: http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=3983
42 posted on 05/16/2011 8:11:10 PM PDT by Choozer
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To: Choozer

I have no interest in what Camping believes. He’s obviously misinterpreted prophecy and will be shown wrong but he is only one of many. He’s on one end that says it’s going to happen this month then there are the Dominionists who say their religion must dominate the world before Jesus can return. There are those who say the church has replaced Israel and those who think Mary is queen of heaven. All wrong, but believe they can prove their view is according to scripture. Non rely on the Holy Spirit to guide them.


43 posted on 05/16/2011 8:30:32 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Crazieman; Red Badger
Not only that in explicit statement, but about a dozen parables describing the end of the world coming by surprise; A thief in the night.

1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

(e-Sword:KJV)

44 posted on 05/16/2011 10:00:30 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: CynicalBear
Rest assured I will not be joining the scoffers.

AMEN, brother! Look heavenward, for your redemption draweth nigh!

45 posted on 05/16/2011 10:03:16 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: AppyPappy

Your #17 and the following post make — shall we say — a curious pair... ;-)


46 posted on 05/17/2011 2:38:54 PM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: CynicalBear
On the other hand, scripture has much to say about scoffers and none of it is glowing or supportive. Rest assured I will not be joining the scoffers.

Amen, bro.

47 posted on 05/20/2011 8:12:15 PM PDT by Lexinom
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