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Broken Piggy Bank: 'Leaky' 401(k)s Worry Congress (SEAL Act - Savings Enhancement by Alleviating...)
ABC News ^ | 5/20/11 | ALAN FARNHAM

Posted on 05/20/2011 9:28:19 AM PDT by Libloather

Broken Piggy Bank: 'Leaky' 401(k)s Worry Congress
By ALAN FARNHAM
May 20, 2011

Americans in record numbers are raiding their 401(k)s, depleting their retirement savings to compensate for paychecks and mortgage equity lost to the recession. As employers and savings plan providers struggle to stem the outflow of money, two senators have introduced legislation that would make it both harder for employees to dip into company-sponsored retirement savings and easier to repay their borrowings.

The SEAL Act (Savings Enhancement by Alleviating leakage in 401(k) Savings) introduced by Sens. Herb Kohl, D-Wis., and Mike Enzi, R-Wyo., would reduce to three the number of loans an employee could take against a 401(k). Savers currently can take as many loans as they think they can handle -- or as many as their employer may permit.

The bill would ban products that promote savings depletion, such as debit cards linked to 401(k)s, and it would make it easier for consumers to repay monies borrowed. According to a new study by consultants Aon Hewitt, some 28 percent of active participants in 401(k) plans had an outstanding loan in 2010, up from 22 percent in 2005.

(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 401k; bank; congress; savings
Just like Commiecare™, it's none of their business.
1 posted on 05/20/2011 9:28:24 AM PDT by Libloather
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To: Libloather

My 401(k) is my business and not the governments.


2 posted on 05/20/2011 9:32:09 AM PDT by pgkdan ( "Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine / There's always laughter and good red wine / ...Belloc)
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To: Libloather

Leave the 401ks alone you commie freaks. If I want to spend the whole thing it’s up to me.


3 posted on 05/20/2011 9:35:20 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Libloather

The goobermint is just jealous the true owner raided it before they could.


4 posted on 05/20/2011 9:35:46 AM PDT by WOBBLY BOB ( "I don't want the majority if we don't stand for something"- Jim Demint)
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To: Libloather

Yeah, the feds want you to keep all that money in your 401K so they can raid it at a later date.


5 posted on 05/20/2011 9:36:07 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Libloather
How dare the citizens raid their own 401K's before Congress has a chance to! :)

Seriously, they really do think all tax-deferred money belongs to them until the taxes are paid. Early withdrawals have to be a big disruption to the Obama/Bankster plan to buy themselves a few more years.

6 posted on 05/20/2011 9:37:33 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ( "The right to offend is far more important than any right not to be offended." - Rowan Atkinson)
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To: Libloather

How about we start by barring the stupid acronyms for the title of new laws. We could name it after me, “Michael’s Law.”


7 posted on 05/20/2011 9:38:55 AM PDT by j.havenfarm (Placer County: CA's Republican Citadel - 48.39% registration, highest in the state,)
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To: Libloather
From the article :

Hess calls cashouts the "most disturbing" part of the problem. They're "long-term scary," she says, in the case of younger workers, who won't be able to rely on pensions. Employers, she thinks, have been doing a good job getting these workers to participate in 401(k)s. "But cashouts are undoing all that good behavior, unwinding all that positive momentum."..... Ann Combs, head of strategic retirement consulting for Vanguard, says that when 401(k) plans were first introduced, the inclusion of a borrowing option was deemed essential to making them attractive. "The thinking was that if you didn't offer access to the money, people would be reluctant to contribute."

Does the mere fact of regarding people 'cashing out' THEIR money as "a problem" suggest an increased likelihood of TPTB ending this problem by seizing all 401ks for say, forced conversion into bonds? For our own good , of course.

8 posted on 05/20/2011 9:39:17 AM PDT by kaylar (It's MARTIAL law. Not marshal(l) or marital! This has been a spelling PSA. PS Secede not succeed)
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To: Libloather

Bat-turds. I’ve taken several loans from my own 401K bank over the years...and paid them all back to my account. It is getting to the point where I am almost ready to quit my job and take my money out of the 401k (minus the penalty as I’m under the 59.5 age requirement), rollover what I can to my Roth and put the rest where I, and I alone, control it...before these rats figure out a way to raid them.

It’s not their money and it’s none of their damned business.


9 posted on 05/20/2011 9:41:19 AM PDT by SueRae (I can see November 2012 from my HOUSE!!!!!!!!)
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To: Libloather
If it ain't broke, break it.
10 posted on 05/20/2011 9:46:15 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Islamophobia: The fear of offending Muslims because they are prone to violence.)
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To: Mr. Jeeves

How dare the citizens raid their own 401K’s before Congress has a chance to! :)

You nailed it, buddy! They’re planning a raid just like Hugary, Ireland, etc. in the not too distant future. And I was hearing too many acquaintances talking openly about “going Galt” and emptying the piggy bank before they could do it.


11 posted on 05/20/2011 9:47:43 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: SueRae

There’s a way to get it without the penalty....you just need to roll it to the proper type of account first...

I’m 47 and have tapped mine several times and only paid straight income tax on it....10%


12 posted on 05/20/2011 9:49:17 AM PDT by Crim (Palin / West '12)
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To: SueRae

You don’t have to take a (tax) penalty if you roll it into another account. You can convert it to a “self directed” IRA that can be used for ANY investment (property, gold, etc).


13 posted on 05/20/2011 9:56:58 AM PDT by RockyMtnMan
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To: Crim
There’s a way to get it without the penalty....you just need to roll it to the proper type of account first...

Well, by all means, don't keep us in suspense. What type of an account does one have to roll into to get these fabulous advantages?

14 posted on 05/20/2011 9:59:59 AM PDT by Lou L (The Senate without a fillibuster is just a 100-member version of the House.)
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To: Crim

That would be income tax + 10% penalty, unless it was a Roth and then you’d have to pay only on the earnings.


15 posted on 05/20/2011 10:02:36 AM PDT by RockyMtnMan
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To: RockyMtnMan

My particular company does not let employees do the Roth Conversion/rollover unless I’m 59.5 or leave the company...which is why I’m considering the latter...before this corrupt government decides for me..


16 posted on 05/20/2011 10:05:46 AM PDT by SueRae (I can see November 2012 from my HOUSE!!!!!!!!)
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To: dirtboy

I talked to my financial adviser about this last night. In short it would put virtually every financial investment company out of business. You REALLY think this is going to happen? Talk of anything like that is simply talk. It hasn’t even made it IN to a committee.

The government wants MORE people to save money, it weans them off the need for SS. In fact, look for the opt-in rule to be changed to a opt-out rule. In other words instead of having to opt-in t a 401k you would be automatically enrolled into one unless you specifically opt OUT of it.


17 posted on 05/20/2011 10:06:33 AM PDT by Peter from Rutland
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To: Peter from Rutland

What I see the government doing is mandating a certain percentage of 401K assets to be invested in government securities. All in the name of preservation of capital, of course.


18 posted on 05/20/2011 10:08:14 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Libloather

If Herb Kohl likes it, I hate it!!


19 posted on 05/20/2011 10:14:11 AM PDT by knittnmom (Save the earth! It's the only planet with chocolate!)
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To: Libloather

Ha, who didn’t see this coming. I stopped contributing to my 401k altogether and withdrew what I had, penalty be damned. Now the amount I would’ve put there buys physical silver that goes in my safe. Hey capn’0....try and tax or touch that jerkoff.


20 posted on 05/20/2011 10:16:12 AM PDT by domeika
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To: SueRae

I’m not sure I understand the point of this bill. Seems like they would WANT people to cash out their 401k’s to generate new tax revenue. Hell, if they got rid of the penalty altogether they’d see a huge rise in tax revenue. It’s our money we should get to decide when we pay the tax and what we do with it afterward.


21 posted on 05/20/2011 10:26:42 AM PDT by RockyMtnMan
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To: Libloather

What the government is worried about is individuals will raid their ‘piggy banks’ before the government has a chance to do just that to pay for its excessive spending.


22 posted on 05/20/2011 10:34:10 AM PDT by mulligan
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To: Lou L

I think he talking about a 72T plan. They can be complex, and should only be done with proper advice.


23 posted on 05/20/2011 10:45:52 AM PDT by proxy_user
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To: Libloather

Yes, by all means, take loans out on the 401k before money in them is not worth anything. Worst you have to do is pay back in inflated dollars.


24 posted on 05/20/2011 10:54:02 AM PDT by Razzz42
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To: RockyMtnMan

Yes it’s a Roth.


25 posted on 05/20/2011 11:00:30 AM PDT by Crim (Palin / West '12)
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To: Libloather

Just an interim step to protect the money until they can give you the option of keeping your 401(k) or keeping Social Security.


26 posted on 05/20/2011 2:48:31 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: RockyMtnMan

Even then unless it was a Roth 401k you would have to pay taxes on the whole amount just to put it into the Roth.


27 posted on 05/20/2011 9:49:35 PM PDT by Almondjoy
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To: proxy_user

The must be rare too. While I’m not a tax person I am licensed and have never heard of such a thing.


28 posted on 05/20/2011 9:50:46 PM PDT by Almondjoy
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To: Razzz42

Except that inflation generally leads to higher equity prices and a loan would make you lose out on all that growth.


29 posted on 05/20/2011 9:53:31 PM PDT by Almondjoy
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To: Crim

Negative. YOu can’t take 401k money and just put it into a Roth.. you must pay taxes on it first. If you had a large sum in your 401k than that’s going to be an awfully large tax it to convert all of it just so you wouldn’t have to pay the penalty.


30 posted on 05/20/2011 9:55:55 PM PDT by Almondjoy
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To: domeika

I like the way you think.


31 posted on 05/20/2011 10:04:05 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: RockyMtnMan
I’m not sure I understand the point of this bill. Seems like they would WANT people to cash out their 401k’s to generate new tax revenue.

People with depleted IRAs and 401ks, etc., will mess up the scumbag politicians' plans to "means test" so-shecurity.

32 posted on 05/20/2011 10:08:15 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Libloather

It likely never occurred to these Washington Brain Trusts that the reason people are “raiding’ their own money is precisely because the Brain Trusts seem to think it’s their job to control how much of our money we can have.

Beltway Disease strikes again.


33 posted on 05/20/2011 10:09:37 PM PDT by FourPeas ("Maladjusted and wigging out is no way to go through life, son." -hg)
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To: Almondjoy

Ok..whatever...I’ve only done it three times in the last decade and paid NO PENALTY WHAT SO EVER.

And you are trying to tell me something I’ve done three times hasnt happend...

Funny stuff....

I rolled my pension to a roth....no penalty...no taxes....100% roll over....

(I can only do this under our current rules if I have been laid off more than 6 months...)

I then had them cut me a check out of the roth for the money I needed...

At the end of the year I CLAIM EXACTLY EVERTHING I’VE DONE and pay the standard income rate for my bracket on any withdrawals I’ve made.....

I Get a 1099-r for the roll over to the roth...and a 1099-r for any withdrawal from the roth.

You want the number of my investment guy?

Or perhaps the person who double checks my taxes for me?

As I recall..I even had a phone audit one of those years...and it was over 200 bucks I got paid to attend a class required for my state licensing...the IRS said it was self employment...even though I’m not self employed...

My return was all fine except that I had to pay self employment tax on the 200 bucks and all was good...

We went through my return line by line...I have rental property as well...and I claim a TON of unreembursed employee expenses...mileage on my truck, tools, work gear, lunches, tolls, union dues and license fees...I also have a vacation property as a second home...

I do my own taxes...as I wont sign my name to anything I dont have a direct hand in........but I do have them checked by a tax professional...

My returns are always conservative...there are a few things I could legally claim that I do not.......meaning if I am ever pulled for a full audit...they will actually owe me money when I walk out...

As a point of reference.....the year I took a full 38 grand out of my roth, after a 100% rollover, and paid off all my credit cards, my truck, a5 grand my mom loaned me, and a few other outstanding debts....(knowing I was going to be laid off for a while yet)

I owed the feds exactly 3600 bucks......I cut them a check for it...

As another point of reference...

I have a high school education.

If I could figure it out...why cant you?

Do you do your own taxes?

If not...why not?


34 posted on 05/20/2011 10:50:07 PM PDT by Crim (Palin / West '12)
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To: Libloather
401K's are an abomination. They should not exist.

Instead, the tax laws should be changed so that they are not necessary.

35 posted on 05/20/2011 10:52:42 PM PDT by cynwoody
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To: Almondjoy

“Except that inflation generally leads to higher equity prices and a loan would make you lose out on all that growth.”

May look good on paper...

Inflation (inflated pricing) doesn’t mean equities are rising in value. Higher prices in equities means they are trying to keep pace (ahead) of inflation.

True that corporate dividends and corporate bonds will yield higher than government bonds but when inflation is running 10% or more, 7% or 8% (corporate returns) looks better than 1% or 2% (government returns) neither are keeping up with real inflation.

Commodities sector will probably be a good safe haven area, certainly not holding cash.


36 posted on 05/21/2011 1:02:02 AM PDT by Razzz42
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To: Crim

You are going to get creamed. You can no roll pre-tax dollars into an after-tax account without having to pay taxes, no if’s or but’s about it. I hope your accountant is going to pay tax bill when you get audited.


37 posted on 05/21/2011 11:14:16 AM PDT by Almondjoy
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To: Crim

After reading your post a 2nd time I have no doubt that you don’t understand the difference between pre-tax accounts and after tax accounts, but none the less you claimed to have paid taxes aon your withdrawals when you said “pay the standard income rate for my bracket on any withdrawals” but you contradicted yourself a few lines earlier when you said “I rolled my pension to a roth..no peanlty... no taxes....100% roll over.”

So you didn’t pay taxes before you did. sounds alot like John Kerry.


38 posted on 05/21/2011 11:18:12 AM PDT by Almondjoy
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To: Libloather

6 trillion is sitting in 401k/IRA money and the end game is to loot that money, they can‘t allow it to be depleted to buy physical gold or some other hard asset.

You have to break a few eggs to make an omelet. You have to break a few skulls to make a utopia.


39 posted on 05/22/2011 8:29:37 PM PDT by Fitzy_888 ("ownership society")
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To: Almondjoy

After reading your post a 2nd time I have no doubt that you don’t understand the difference between pre-tax accounts and after tax accounts, but none the less you claimed to have paid taxes aon your withdrawals when you said “pay the standard income rate for my bracket on any withdrawals” but you contradicted yourself a few lines earlier when you said “I rolled my pension to a roth..no peanlty... no taxes....100% roll over.”

Here’s a good primer on EWP’s from Roth IRA’s...

http://www.fool.com/money/allaboutiras/allaboutiras07.htm

One of the senarios listed is very simular to mine...

Perhaps the light bulb will go on over your head...and you will realise you made several false assumtions.

Figure it out for yourself....or dont...

Go ahead and pay that penalty....No skin off my nose...

This would be the part of the conversation that’s called “the end”....because I’m not going to further argue my personal finances with someone on the internet who “feels like a nut”...


40 posted on 05/23/2011 8:35:54 AM PDT by Crim (Palin / West '12)
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To: Fitzy_888

“You have to break a few eggs to make an omelet.”

These are politicians we are talking about..

The weasles are getting ready to feed on the nest eggs...

“You have to suck a few nest eggs to feed a weasle”


41 posted on 05/23/2011 8:39:04 AM PDT by Crim (Palin / West '12)
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To: Libloather

http://www.smartmoney.com/borrow/debt-stategies/why-bill-to-limit-401k-loans-is-dangerous-1306171084257/?link=SM_hp_ls4e&zone=intromessage


42 posted on 05/23/2011 11:03:34 AM PDT by Pining_4_TX
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To: pgkdan

Yeah, it’s your business, if you subscribe to the idea that you know better about making decisions in your own life than some elitist in the government.

Unfortunately, the elitists believe the exact opposite.
This is exactly WHY there is a dichotomy in the political arena.


43 posted on 05/23/2011 11:06:18 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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