Skip to comments.Report: Hincapie tells feds Armstrong used PEDs
Posted on 05/20/2011 4:20:35 PM PDT by Vision
NEW YORK (AP) A report by "60 Minutes" says George Hincapie, a longtime member of Lance Armstrong's inner circle, has told federal authorities he saw the seven-time Tour de France winner use performance-enhancing drugs...
Hamilton said he also used PEDs with Armstrong.
Hincapie has often been depicted as one of Armstrong's most loyal teammates and was with him for all seven Tour victories. In an interview last year, Armstrong said Hincapie was "like a brother to me."
Armstrong has steadfastly denied doping...
(Excerpt) Read more at google.com ...
Wonder how this will effect the 2011 TdF?
I don’t believe Hincapie.
I dont believe 60 minutes.......
I believe every Tour De France winner since 1975 has been jacked up on PED.
The following is an email Tyler Hamilton sent to friends and family on May 19 explaining his long overdue confession to doping.
I hope this finds you all doing well.
First of all, sorry for sending this out as a group letter. If there was any way I could come visit each of you individually, I would. I hope we are together soon.
Theres no easy way to say this, so let me just say it plain: on Sunday night youll see me on 60 Minutes making a confession thats overdue. Long overdue.
During my cycling career, I knowingly broke the rules. I used performance-enhancing drugs. I lied about it, over and over. Worst of all, I hurt people I care about. And while there are reasons for what I did reasons I hope youll understand better after watching it doesnt excuse the fact that I did it all, and theres no way on earth to undo it.
The question most people ask is, why now? There are two reasons. The first has to do with the federal investigation into cycling. Last summer, I received a subpoena to testify before a grand jury. Until that moment I walked into the courtroom, I hadnt told a soul. My testimony went on for six hours. For me, it was like the Hoover dam breaking. I opened up; I told the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. And I felt a sense of relief Id never felt before all the secrets, all the weight Id been carrying around for years suddenly lifted. I saw that, for me personally, this was the way forward.
The second reason has to do with the sport I love. In order to truly reform, cycling needs to change, and change drastically, starting from the top. Now that Im working as a coach, I see young people entering the sport with hopes of making it to the top. I believe that no one coming into the sport should have to face the difficult choices I had to make. And before the sport can move forward, it has to face the truth.
This hasnt been easy, not by a long shot. But I want to let you know that Im doing well. The coaching business is more fun and fulfilling than Id ever imagined, and Tanker and I are loving our Boulder life. I recently turned 40, and my friends threw the best 80s themed surprise party in the history of the world (hey, most of you were there!). Life is good.
Again, I just want to say Im sorry, and that I hope you can forgive me. What matters to me most are my family and friends. Im deeply grateful for all your support and love through the years, and Im looking forward to spending time with all of you again, hopefully soon. My Mom and Dad always told me that the truth would set me free. I never knew how right they were.
Well how else was Armstrong supposed to beat a bunch of other dopers?
When you consider how many of the elite TDF riders of the past 10 years ended up with positive tests (Ulrich, Landis, Vinokourov, Basso, Rasmussen, Contador, Mayo, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.), I’ve always admitted that I was using willing suspension of disbelief with Armstrong since he never was caught. It sure seems like the whole sport was doing it and it was simply a cat and mouse game. Armstrong was the best mouse perhaps.
My biggest problem with the whole Armstrong situation now isn’t 60 Minutes (it’s cool if they unearth new stuff) - it’s that my tax dollars are paying for the DOJ to spend millions of dollars investigating Armstrong for conduct that is a decade old and that hangs by the slender reed of his association with the Postal Service. Defrauding the US government is the hook. Really? I’d rather have the DOJ going after real criminals rather than a retired cyclist. Felt the same way about the Barry Bonds case, but that’s another story.
I find it hard to believe that all of the other great riders were doping, and yet Armstrong was dominating them without doping. Unlikely.
However, he was never caught, so there is no proof.
I don’t care about athletes using PEDs, especially when they are all doing it.
As an old road racer I have a few comments:
1. As Maitre Jacques once said: “Nobody rides The Tour on mineral water.” Shall we shame Merckx now? And Poulidor? And Hineault? And LeMond? And the rest? Drugs (even alcohol, tobacco, and amphetamines) and the Tour go back to its founding in the turn of the century. Ask Tom Simpson.
2. Lance has endured possibly THOUSANDS of random high-tech drug tests and has never been positive. His enemies are legion. They hate him, and the USA, and all he stands for. Is this - and a jealous anti-Lance Velo press - not enough? Can we not just let it go?
3. Armstrong is perhaps the greatest athlete of all time. Athletism at that level is a cutting edge marriage of art and science and psychology... And medicine of all kinds.
4. If doping is a cat-and-mouse game, let it be so. What about the altitude chambers the top athletes sleep in to boost RBC levels? Why is it legal just because it is not a pill?
5. Many people cannot believe Lance’s O2 to power-output levels. I can. Lance, unlike any other cyclist with the exception perhaps of LeMond rebuilt himself as a TOTAL cycling monster after health tragedy struck, and he deserves the credit and acclaim he has won.
6. Lance defines the term CHAMPION. He is in a league all his own. Never underestimate the ability or desire of good but lesser men to want to destroy the Champion.
That’s my say.
Marion Jones never failed a drugs test.
There was an article in a European newspaper several years ago that detailed the investigations into use of banned substances in the sport of cycling.
After a day of competition cycling a team would be chosen to be tested. The team doctor would always have several of the backup riders on the team set aside as non-drug users, so these guys would be sent to the testers first.
While they were testing those guys, the doctor and trainers had about 45 minutes to put IVs in the riders and flush the drugs out of their systems. Since they tested the guys in a serial fashion, they had time to do this.
The whole system is set up so that they can claim they are doing random testing but still give the teams time to take care of any evidence. It’s like most sports, there is a wink and a nod to testing for banned substances but there is little effort to actually stop it.
I'm on the fence about Lance: I thought all the superfluous tissue in his body melted away during the cancer, and his pain threshold would be nothing short of incredible as well.
LeMond -- I know he had the hunting accident, but I don't see how that would have affected his overall body composition as cancer treatments would.
Finally -- the Fwench always hated Lance. I remember seeing words in English chalked on one of the TdF climbs with Lance in the lead, so he'd be sure to see it:
"Rip their ball off, Lance."
“Really? Id rather have the DOJ going after real criminals rather than a retired cyclist. Felt the same way about the Barry Bonds case, but thats another story.”
I couldn’t agree more.
Too him long enough to come forward... /S
I will take Armstrong any day to 60 Minuets.
Another suspicion of mine is that there hasn't been a clean champion since Indurain. I hate to see the sport tarnished like this, but that is because it is a violation of established rules. I think if the truth were known the majority of the peloton is probably juiced because everyone knows everyone is doing it and there is immense pressure to compete.
I've said it before - let all athletes use what ever they want. Sport has transgressed into entertainment and they are giving fans what they want to see. With all the money and perks that are on the line many athletes are obviously to risk both their health and their reputation to win. So, somehow they are going to find a way. PEDs are part of the evolution.
As we all know there was a time when riders thought smoking improved their ability to climb. Then came more advanced training and dieting methods along with the simple blood doping idea of training in high altitude and taking one's own blood to be saved for transfusions in crucial stages at a later date.
There's always going to be someone figuring out a way to gain an advantage.
Aero bars ...disk wheels, Ti frames - what about Power bars and carb drinks?
BTW - are the women all clean? Never a mention of them.
Bad. Cheryl will now divorce him!
Unless he was tested positive all those many times, they have no case. It is a matter of he said/he said.
The other thing that no one points out is that he SPECIFICALLY trained for the TDF, concentrating on that race alone, and only using the other races as training rides. Most of the other riders would wear themselves down by the time the TDF came around, where Lance was primed for it.
***Wonder how this will effect the 2011 TdF?***
Lance won’t win.
Thanks for the update. I hope this isn’t true and Lance is like Jim Thorpe and even Bob Mathias.
Naturally gifted and the best in the world in their heyday.
I don’t think a former doper should be rewarded with a coaching career.
In one sense, you could claim that he isn’t a doper because by the rules of the game, he hasn’t been found to be a doper. Just like a foul in basketball is whatever is called, and if the referee says it’s a catch, it’s a catch — not whether it was really a catch.
So Armstrong competed in a sport that included constant and pervasive drug testing, and he was never found to fail any of those tests. Others competed in football as linemen, and they didn’t hold because the referee didn’t say the held — it makes no difference if you or I think they were holding on every down, or that every professional basketball player takes 3 steps to the hoop.
For my part, until someone provides EVIDENCE, I’m not going to concede that a particular person was using drugs. Other druggies saying “he did it to”, no matter how “sincere” they appear to be, isn’t evidence, unless they give us a syringe with Armstrong’s fingerprints on it.
I will note that Hamilton is trying to salvage what he seems to admit is a lucrative coaching career, something that should end with his admission that his best coaching advice seems to be to take drugs — it is to his benefit to claim that he HAD to do it because everybody was.
Look at his letter, with the protests of how HARD it was for him to have to take drugs, and how he hopes to protect others from his fate — all the words of a person who blames others for their own actions.
Especially given that the drugs he is alleged to have taken weren’t illegal. Of course, they got some baseball players criminally by having them testify about their use, and nailing them for perjury.
It goes back further than that. Speed was widely used until a rider OD’d during a Tour in the sixties.
From Wikipedia, these highlights and a quote from Henri Pelissier that you may find fascinating. (Pelissier had a long time feud with Tour Director Henri Desgrange.)
Henri Pélissier, (winner of the 1923 TdF) Francis (his brother) and another rider, Maurice Ville, abandoned the Tour at Coutances in 1924 after Desgrange had not let Pélissier to take off a jersey as the sun came up. They were met in the station café by the journalist Albert Londres, who normally wrote about social and international affairs but was following the Tour for Le Petit Parisien. Londres’ piece, reproduced largely as a dialogue, appeared under the headline Les Forçats de la Route.
“You wouldn’t believe that all this is about nothing more than a few jerseys. This morning, in Cherbourg, a race official came up to me and without a word, he pulled up my jersey to check that I’m not wearing two. What would you say if I pulled open your waistcoat to see if your shirt was clean? That’s the way these people behave and I won’t stand for it. That’s what this is all about.”
“But what if you were wearing two jerseys?”
“That’s the point. If I want to, I can wear 15. What I can’t do is start with two and finish with only one.”
“Because that’s the rule. We don’t only have to work like donkeys, we have to freeze or suffocate as well. Apparently that’s an important part of the sport. So I went off to find Desgrange. ‘I can’t throw my jersey on the road, then?’ ‘No,’ he said, ‘you can’t throw away anything provided by the organisation.’ ‘But this isn’t the organisation’sit’s mine.’
“’I don’t conduct arguments in the street,’ he said. ‘OK,’ I said, ‘if you’re not prepared to talk about it in the street, I’m going back to bed.’
“’We’ll sort it all out in Brest’, he said. It will definitely be sorted out in Brest, I said, because I’m quitting. And I did.”
Pélissier went to his brother, Francis, told him his decision and encouraged him to do the same. Francis said that suited him because he had a bad stomach and no enthusiasm for racing. Ville said he hadn’t been part of the strike but that the other two had picked him up along the road. He was too tired to go on, he said.
“You have no idea what the Tour de France is,’ Henri said. “It’s a calvary. And what’s more, the way to the cross only had 14 stations we’ve got 15. We suffer on the road. But do you want to see how we keep going? Wait...’
From his bag he takes a phial. “That, that’s cocaine for our eyes and chloroform for our gums...”
“Here,” said Ville, tipping out the contents of his bag, “horse liniment to keep my knees warm. And pills? You want to see the pills?” They got out three boxes apiece.
“In short,” said Francis, “we run on dynamite.’
Henri takes up the story. “You ever seen the baths at the finish? It’s worth buying a ticket. You go in plastered with mud and you come out as white as a sheet. We’re drained all the time by diarrhoea. Have a look at the water. We can’t sleep at night. We’re twitching as if we’ve got St Vitus’s Dance. You see my shoelaces? They’re leather, as hard as nails, but they’re always breaking. So imagine what happens to our skin. And our toenails. I’ve lost six. They fall off a bit at a time all through the stage. They wouldn’t treat mules the way we’re treated. We’re not weaklings, but my God, they treat us so brutally. And if I so much as stick a newspaper under my jersey at the start, they check to see it’s still there at the finish. One day they’ll start putting lumps of lead in our pocket because God made men too light.”
By the way - will there be a Tour de France pinglist this year? Are there any Freepers who might be willing to manage a cycling / roadie pinglist?
The powers that be have gone out of their way to try to catch him, and he has never been santioned, not even once.
That's the evidence that counts. He has come up clean, clean, clean.
Innuendo and sour grapes just won't cut it...
I don’t think Lance will win this year.
Maybe because he will not be racing.
They need to give it up and focus on the people still racing.
If you can pass the control and racing checks - well then, you passed.
> Hincapie has often been depicted as one of Armstrong’s most loyal teammates
That all ended a couple of years ago after the 14th stage of the 09 Tour when Hincapie blamed Armstrong for leading, or certainly not discouraging, the chase that managed to keep George out of his only real shot at yellow in his Tour career.
I would rate George as one of the most respected men in US cycling. I don't want to believe it, but this is Hincapie, it's probably true.
Arguably the greatest feat in the long history of cycling could crumble before our eyes.
I haven’t believed anyone else but the drug tests. But the Hincapie comments give me pause. As you say, George is one of the most loyal men in the sport. I’m not sure what motivation he has to lie. The rest of them that reason is simple.
I don’t want to believe him. Curious as to why you don’t.
Grand jury, schmand jury.
All through his career, Lance was tested repeatedly, over and over, while many others were also tested. Many of the others DID use PED's, and were busted by the same tests which Lance took.
Lance never failed a PED test during all those years. They went out of their way to make sure he was tested at every opportunity.
Apparently, Lance must have had some kind of magic wand which Jan Ulrich, Alberto Contador, and numerous others among his cycling peers simply lacked.
Once again: Lance was tested relentlessly, and there was a complete lack of physical evidence that he ever used PED's, despite the most stringent tests available (the same tests which caught several of his peers.)
So now, years later, we are supposed to rely on someone's grand jury testimony as evidence to that Lance did indeed use PED's?
It's ludicrous on its face.
If there's ever to be some kind of conviction for Lance using PED's it will have to consist of a scientific test of one of his remaining blood samples. Anything less is simply inadequate evidence, and amounts to little more than slander...
I’m betting George is dirty too and he is scared or they are cutting him a deal. What other excuse could there be?
As to the drug tests, I think they are usually right. Usually.
That’s valid and makes some sense. Big George did not exactly have the quintessential TDF riders build...
Thanks for the ping; post; thread. This ain’t no disco...this ain’t no country club either...this is LA (we’re talking about here). I’ll side with LA.
Highly unlikely given the fact that a typical kidney dialysis takes between 3 to 5 hours and a more thorough treatment takes 6 to 8 hours. And that's using highly sophisticated dialysis machines.
You can't "flush the drugs" out of someone's body via a 45 minute IV...In fact, a typical blood transfusion for one unit of blood takes over 1 1/2 hours.......and that's just to add blood, forget about cleansing all the blood in your body.
I think that's the intent. As others here have said, Lance has passed every test thrown at him and has endured more scrutiny than any other cyclist in history. The only thing left in their near empty bucket of mud is to get his teammates to turn on him.........
The media, egged on by the jealous EuroWeenies, love to tople giants..........
If I remember correctly, the most common type of “drug” they use now increases oxygen carrying capacity of the blood, “red blood cell booster erythropoietin (commonly known as EPO)”
It actually doesn’t show up in the blood like cocaine would. The only way to detect it is by measuring the oxygen content of the blood and comparing it to an “average” number.
So I could see if they did a quick blood transfusion it would lower the oxygen content enough to be “average” again.