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FBI lab reports on anthrax attacks suggest another miscue
McClatchy Newspapers ^ | 20 May 2011 | Greg Gordon

Posted on 05/21/2011 12:55:30 PM PDT by Palter

Buried in FBI laboratory reports about the anthrax mail attacks that killed five people in 2001 is data suggesting that a chemical may have been added to try to heighten the powder's potency, a move that some experts say exceeded the expertise of the presumed killer.

The lab data, contained in more than 9,000 pages of files that emerged a year after the Justice Department closed its inquiry and condemned the late Army microbiologist Bruce Ivins as the perpetrator, shows unusual levels of silicon and tin in anthrax powder from two of the five letters.

Those elements are found in compounds that could be used to weaponize the anthrax, enabling the lethal spores to float easily so they could be readily inhaled by the intended victims, scientists say.

The existence of the silicon-tin chemical signature offered investigators the possibility of tracing purchases of the more than 100 such chemical products available before the attacks, which might have produced hard evidence against Ivins or led the agency to the real culprit.

But the FBI lab reports released in late February give no hint that bureau agents tried to find the buyers of additives such as tin-catalyzed silicone polymers.

The apparent failure of the FBI to pursue this avenue of investigation raises the ominous possibility that the killer is still on the loose.

A McClatchy analysis of the records also shows that other key scientific questions were left unresolved and conflicting data wasn't sorted out when the FBI declared Ivins the killer shortly after his July 29, 2008, suicide.

One chemist at a national laboratory told McClatchy that the tin-silicone findings and the contradictory data should prompt a new round of testing on the anthrax powder.

(Excerpt) Read more at mcclatchydc.com ...


TOPICS: Anthrax Scare; Crime/Corruption; Government
KEYWORDS: 201105; amerithrax; anthrax; bobstevens; bruceivins; ivins; silicone; tin; weaponizedanthrax
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To: Southack
"Utter rubbish. Ivans didn't even *buy* the NE."

From page 43 of the Expert Behavioral Analysis Panel report:

"Among the recipients of the first set of anthrax letters was the parent company of the National Enquirer, American Media Inc. (AMI), then based in Boca Raton, Fla. The address of the parent company at that time — the address to which the letter was sent — was the former address of the National Enquirer itself, as listed in the back issues that had piled up in Dr. Ivins' office. One copy of the paper was found in the hot suite."

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

21 posted on 05/23/2011 6:53:26 AM PDT by EdLake
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To: Southack
"You are smoking Grade C crack."

I can only show you the facts. If you prefer to ignore the facts and just believe what you want to believe, that's up to you.

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

22 posted on 05/23/2011 6:55:59 AM PDT by EdLake
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To: EdLake
"Dr. Ivins commented in an e-mail to a former colleague: “[T]hanks for passing these along to me. I wonder when the National Enquirer will come out with its headlines on ‘Guinea Pig Soldiers Get Killer Vaccine.’” - EdLake

One comment in only one email over an entire life of emailing does NOT make a man obsessed with the National Enquirer.

If that's all that you've got, then you fail.

23 posted on 05/23/2011 3:35:17 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: EdLake
"The fact that someone at AMI rented an apartment to one of the terrorists means absolutely NOTHING. It's just a meaningless connection." -EdLake

I can only show you the facts. If you prefer to ignore the facts and just believe what you want to believe, that's up to you. Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com "

You are the one brushing away the fact that someone at AMI rented an apartment to one/some of the 9/11 terrorists.

You call that a "meaningless connection."

I call that having your head in the sand.

24 posted on 05/23/2011 3:38:00 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: EdLake
""Among the recipients of the first set of anthrax letters was the parent company of the National Enquirer, American Media Inc. (AMI)"

There was no anthrax letter at AMI. No such letter can be shown.

None. All that you can do is whine about someone's thoughts about such a letter being mailed.

...but no anthrax letter was ever found there.

25 posted on 05/23/2011 3:40:53 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: EdLake
"I can only show you the facts." - EdLake

Well, you certainly can't show me an anthrax letter at the AMI building.

...and *that* is a fact.

26 posted on 05/23/2011 3:43:09 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Southack
"Well, you certainly can't show me an anthrax letter at the AMI building."

So, your argument is that no amount of testimony, no amount of evidence can convince you that a letter existed at AMI if it cannot be shown to you personally?

The fact that there was a trail of anthrax spores through the various post offices from Trenton to Boca Raton is just some kind of coincidence?

The fact that Stephanie Dailey remembers opening a powder filled letter is just a coincidence?

The fact that she was responsible for opening letters addressed to the National Enquirer is just a coincidence?

The fact that the letter she opened arrived at the right time to have been mailed with the Brokaw and NY Post letters is just a coincidence?

The fact that she tested positive for exposure to anthrax spores is just a coincidence?

The fact that the area around Stephanie Dailey's desk was the most contaminated area in the AMI building is just a coincidence?

Everything is just a coincidence EXCEPT the fact that one of the 9/11 hijackers rented an apartment from the wife of one of the editors at AMI? That is not a coincidence because it supports your belief?

Is that what you are saying?

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

27 posted on 05/24/2011 6:46:41 AM PDT by EdLake
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To: EdLake
"So, your argument is that no amount of testimony, no amount of evidence can convince you that a letter existed at AMI if it cannot be shown to you personally?"

There was no anthrax letter at the AMI building. There was just cocaine, er, anthrax-contaminated cash from the rent money being paid to the AMI landlord by the 9/11 terrorists who had leased her apartment.

The 9/11 terrorists are a fact. Their lease from the AMI building landlord is a fact. That those terrorists paid their rent money each month in cash is a fact. That anthrax contaminates cash better than does cocaine is a fact.

That there is no AMI building anthrax letter is a fact.

Those are the facts.

28 posted on 05/24/2011 11:21:45 AM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Southack
Southack wrote; "Those are the facts."

Yes, but they are totally irrelevant facts until relevance is proven.

None of your facts shows in any way that the anthrax was on the money. You just believe that to be true.

Your facts relate to the 9/11 terrorists, but they in no way relate to the anthrax attacks except in your imagination.

Example: It's a FACT that Porton Down laboratories in England had the Ames strain. So what? So did other labs. Why is that fact anything more than a meaningless, irrelevant fact?

Example: It's a fact that Texas A&M University had a sample of the Ames strain in 1981. So what? Why is that fact anything more than a meaningless, irrelevant fact?

Facts must be shown to be RELEVANT to the issue before they can be anything but meaningless facts.

Fact: The 9/11 terrorists were all DEAD for a week at the time of the first mailing.

Fact: The 9/11 terrorists were all DEAD for three weeks at the time of the second mailing.

Fact: The timing of the death of Bob Stevens IS consistent with his being exposed to anthrax in a letter from the first mailing.

Fact: The timing of the death of Bob Stevens is NOT consistent with the 9/11 terrorists paying their rent.

Fact: The strain of anthrax that killed Bob Stevens is a strain that was only used by a few labs.

Fact: None of the 9/11 terrorists had access to the "murder weapon" - flask RMR-1029.

Fact: No anthrax was found anywhere the 9/11 terrorists went or stayed.

Fact: Cocaine contaminates cash because people roll up paper money and use it to sniff cocaine.

Fact: No one deliberately sniffs anthrax.

Fact: Stephanie Dailey remembers handling a letter that contained a powder.

Fact: No one remembers handling money that was so contaminated with a powder that it spread all over the building.

Your facts may be facts, but the are not relevant facts. They are meaningless facts.

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

29 posted on 05/24/2011 1:24:51 PM PDT by EdLake
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To: EdLake

Incorrect.

The 9/11 terrorists paid their rent in cash to their AMI landlord for an apartment within miles of the AMI building.

Thus, the distance from the apartment to the AMI building is relevant. That anthrax easily contaminates cash (such as rent money) is relevant. That 9/11 terrorist rent money had a non-postal route to the AMI building is relevant.

That there was no anthrax letter at the AMI building is relevant. This fact alone means that a non-postal explanation must be pursued, contrary to the blinders placed on the anthrax investigation that traced spores in post offices without considering that the spores could have originated in the mailroom at the AMI building via 9/11 terrorist rent cash instead of a non-existent letter.


30 posted on 05/24/2011 11:11:16 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: EdLake
"Fact: Cocaine contaminates cash because people roll up paper money and use it to sniff cocaine."

"Fact: No one deliberately sniffs anthrax." -EdLake

Once cash is contaminated with anthrax, the first person to roll up the Dollar bill to later snort coke is going to get inhalation anthrax along with their cocaine high.

31 posted on 05/24/2011 11:15:29 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Southack
"Once cash is contaminated with anthrax, the first person to roll up the Dollar bill to later snort coke is going to get inhalation anthrax along with their cocaine high."

But, it didn't happen. And the attacks were nearly ten years ago.

All the money that you believe was so covered with anthrax that it was able to thoroughly contaminate a three story building didn't infect the woman who collected the rent, it didn't infect her husband who presumably took it into the AMI building, it didn't infect anyone who handled the money at the bank, and there was no sudden epidemic of inhalation anthrax among coke sniffers.

Your theory makes no sense. It is totally contrary to all known facts, and it is unsupported by any facts.

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

32 posted on 05/25/2011 6:56:45 AM PDT by EdLake
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To: Southack
Show me the letter. You can't. There was no letter. YOU FAIL

HUH? What are you talking about?

33 posted on 05/25/2011 7:03:06 AM PDT by EnquiringMind
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To: Southack
Southack wrote: "The 9/11 terrorists paid their rent in cash to their AMI landlord for an apartment within miles of the AMI building."

But the 9/11 terrorists didn't have any anthrax. They left no trace of anthrax in the apartment they rented. So, the location of the apartment is totally irrelevant.

"That anthrax easily contaminates cash (such as rent money) is relevant."

No, it is NOT relevant. It is a meaningless fact. Anthrax easily contaminates bikini bathing suits, too. So what?

"That 9/11 terrorist rent money had a non-postal route to the AMI building is relevant."

No, it is NOT relevant. Did the money blow in the wind from the apartment to the AMI building? Do you have evidence of that? Did the landlady take the money to the AMI building and spread it around the entire building? Do you have evidence of that? Why didn't she contract anthrax if she did something like that? Did her husband take the anthrax to work and spread it around? Why didn't he contract anthrax? Do you believe they took the money into the AMI building taped to their clothes, and then they danced around the building? Is that how you believe the building became so contaminated?

The facts say that the anthrax arrived by letter. Stephanie Dailey SAW the letter. She testified that she THREW AWAY the letter. She tested positive for exposure to anthrax, confirming what she said. The area around her desk was the most contaminated area in the building, further confirming what she said. There was a letter.

The fact that the letter was thrown away does NOT provide evidence that there was no letter. It provides evidence that your theory about the money is baseless.

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

34 posted on 05/25/2011 7:13:14 AM PDT by EdLake
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To: EnquiringMind

There was no anthrax letter ever found at the Florida AMI building.


35 posted on 05/25/2011 4:35:10 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: EdLake
"Your theory makes no sense. It is totally contrary to all known facts, and it is unsupported by any facts." - EdLake

That's incorrect. You can only claim the above by being intellectually dishonest. Sad.

In reality, I've put forth the only non-postal-route theory (something required considering that no postal anthrax letter was ever found at the Florida AMI building).

But *my* theory isn't important. What are important are facts, and your thoery doesn't explain why no anthrax letter was sent to the Florida AMI building.

That's a shaky foundation, and it makes your theory have to dance around inconvenient facts such as the 9/11 terrorists renting an apartment from their AMI building landlord only miles away from the Florida AMI building.

It means that you have to make wild-eyed claims of denial about the 9/11 terrorists paying their monthly rent in cash to their AMI landlord. It means that you have to misdirect, deny, or even laugh about the fact that anthrax contaminates cash more easily than does cocaine.

But hey, this is the Internet and you are living your life. It's fine with me if you've decided to live your life lying to yourself as well as to others.

...just don't expect rational people to agree with you.

36 posted on 05/25/2011 5:31:53 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Southack
"don't expect rational people to agree with you."

Do any people at all - rational or non-rational - agree with you on your theory?

I've been discussing theories about the anthrax case with hundreds of people over the years, and I've never heard anyone but you claim that the AMI building was contaminated with anthrax on rent money.

Nearly everyone else in the world is divided into two camps: (1) The group that believes the J-Lo letter contained the anthrax. (2) The group that believes a letter to the National Enquirer contained the anthrax.

There is a scientific report in the works that is expected to be published any month now. It will prove conclusively that there was only one source for the anthrax that contaminated the AMI building, and that source was the letter that Stephanie Dailey opened and threw away.

"your thoery doesn't explain why no anthrax letter was sent to the Florida AMI building.

The FACTS say that the anthrax that contaminated the AMI building arrived in a letter that was mailed at the same time as the letters to Brokaw, the NY Post, Dan Rather and Peter Jennings.

The letters to Dan Rather and Peter Jennings were also thrown away. We don't have those letters, either, but like the AMI letter, we know those letters existed because the FACTS say they existed. A child was infected near Peter Jennings' office, and Dan Rather's assistant was infected.

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

37 posted on 05/26/2011 7:06:44 AM PDT by EdLake
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To: EdLake
"The FACTS say that the anthrax that contaminated the AMI building arrived in a letter..."

Incorrect. There was no Florida AMI building anthrax letter. It doesn't exist. You've never seen it. The FBI never saw it, and no one has it today even after sniffing and excavating entire landfills.

It is your *mind* that is trapped in a letter explanation, and you won't let it go even though there was no anthrax letter at AMI.

Consider for a moment that you talk about how anthrax spores were "traced" through post offices and routing centers, yet no such "tracing" of trash cans and trash bags exists.

That is because there was no anthrax letter mailed *to* AMI, but rather, the anthrax arrived at AMI via tainted cash which contaminated outgoing mail.

That is because people don't throw away cash.

That is because the entire anthrax investigation was flawed.

You can't traced an AMI anthrax letter into trash cans, garbage bags, and finally into a landfill because there was never an anthrax letter sent to AMI.

Anthrax arrived at AMI via contaminated cash from rent money paid by the 9/11 terrorists who leased from their AMI landlord mere miles from the AMI building.

38 posted on 05/26/2011 11:54:15 AM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Southack
"there was no anthrax letter mailed *to* AMI, but rather, the anthrax arrived at AMI via tainted cash which contaminated outgoing mail."

Then you should be able to explain a few things:

How did the anthrax on the money get to AMI if it was paid to a woman who does NOT work at AMI?

Why wasn't the lady landlord infected?

Why didn't the apartment the 9/11 terrorists rented test positive for anthrax?

If it got to AMI via her husband, how did the money in his wallet contaminate the entire AMI building?

If it got to AMI via her husband, how do you KNOW it got to AMI that way?

Why did the landlady give all the rent money to her husband? Isn't that a lot of money to carry around?

Why wasn't the husband infected?

Why didn't the husband even test positive for exposure to anthrax if he infected the entire building?

Why wasn't the area where the husband worked the most infected area in the building?

How does that much anthrax get transported on a few bills of money?

The amount of anthrax in the building would have required that the bills be coated like frosting on a cake. How come no one noticed or mentioned money that was coated with white powder like frosting on a cake?

How come the landlady didn't notice that she was paid with money that was coated with white powder?

Your beliefs make absolutely no sense and are totally unsupported by any facts.

The anthrax letter WAS seen by the person who opened it. She testified that she threw it away. She tested positive for exposure to anthrax. The area around her desk was the most contaminated area in the building. All the facts say that the anthrax letter arrived by mail and was thrown away.

Why doesn't your theory have supporting facts like those?

The New York Post letter was also thrown away. It was thrown away UNOPENED. They found it in a garbage bag on a freight elevator. Unfortunately, the ABC letter, the CBS letter and the AMI letter were thrown away and could not be recovered. But we know they existed because the evidence says they existed.

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

39 posted on 05/26/2011 1:29:39 PM PDT by EdLake
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To: EdLake
"How did the anthrax on the money get to AMI if it was paid to a woman who does NOT work at AMI?" -EdLake

Her husband works at AMI.

40 posted on 05/27/2011 2:11:09 AM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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