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SWAT raid: deadly force justified when serving search warrant
kgun9.com ^ | 27 May, 2011 | Steve Nuņez

Posted on 05/27/2011 9:15:42 PM PDT by marktwain

TUCSON (KGUN9-TV) – Video of the SWAT raid and deadly shooting of former Marine Jose Guerena has raised many questions from 9 On Your Side viewers who wanted to know how much force police are legally allowed to use when serving a search warrant.

9 On Your Side Reporter Steve Nuñez sat down with Criminal Defense Attorney Michael Bloom to show him the raw footage of the raid. The Pima County Sheriff's Department released the video to the media on Thursday.

"I'm sure everyone's reaction first of all, it's horrible," said Bloom as he watched SWAT officers fire 71 bullets at a person they identified as Guerena.

"It's a horrifying situation," said Bloom.

But Bloom, who has 34 years experience representing victims of illegal searches, wanted to make it clear: he is not connected to the case. Nor has he seen the search warrant or other key investigative documents.

"I'm not expressing an opinion as to whether or not the shooting was justified or not," said Bloom.

Instead, Bloom agreed to analyze the raw footage and provide his expertise on the legal interpretation of how police are supposed to serve a search warrant.

The video shows SWAT sounded its sirens for eight seconds while driving up to Guerena's house.

Nuñez asked Bloom if this eight second warning met the legal criteria.

"That probably technically complies with the law," answered Bloom.

However, Bloom said the sound of a siren does not identify the type of emergency vehicle it's coming from. And that's why the law says police have to identify themselves by yelling, "Police," before breaking down the door and entering.

Nuñez asked Bloom if the law defines how long officers are supposed to wait for someone to respond before they can force their way inside of a home.

"There is no specific case that says its six seconds or fourteen seconds or this or that," said Bloom. "It's a reasonable amount of time."

And as far as using deadly force when serving a search warrant? Bloom said by law, police are always justified to shoot anytime they are threatened with deadly force. And once police pull the trigger they are justified to keep shooting until they run out of ammunition.

"If in fact the gentleman points a weapon at police that justifies that they're not required to wait until he starts firing," said Bloom.

Bloom said because of the amount of force used by police the public has the right to know every detail surrounding the shooting and what exactly police knew about Jose Guerena.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; US: Arizona
KEYWORDS: az; banglist; bullies; cops; deadlyforce; donutwatch; fourthamendment; guerena; jackbootedthugs; jbt; jbts; joseguerena; murderbyswat; pigs; swat
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The title lies.
1 posted on 05/27/2011 9:15:48 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Ain’t buy’n it.


2 posted on 05/27/2011 9:19:29 PM PDT by doc1019 (Palin/Bachmann, unbeatable.)
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To: marktwain

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP0f00_JMak

http://keepvid.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DXP0f00_JMak


3 posted on 05/27/2011 9:20:15 PM PDT by Neidermeyer
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To: marktwain

Well of COURSE the SWAT will say deadly force was justified! Does anyone expect them to say, “We clusterf**ked, big time. Sorry, citizens!”/s;) And, did any of the NEIGHBORS hear sirens nearby...I’m assuming he was not dwelling in the middle of desert...


4 posted on 05/27/2011 9:20:50 PM PDT by Frank_2001
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To: marktwain
Here is the applicable AZ law:

13-3916. Service of warrant; breaking and entering to execute

A. A search warrant may be served by any peace officer but by no other person except in aid of an officer engaging in service of the warrant.

B. An officer may break into a building, premises or vehicle or any part of a building, premises or vehicle, to execute the warrant when:

1. After notice of the officer's authority and purpose, the officer receives no response within a reasonable time.

2. After notice of the officer's authority and purpose, the officer is refused admittance.

3. A magistrate has authorized an unannounced entry pursuant to section 13-3915.

4. The particular circumstances and the objective articulable facts are such that a reasonable officer would believe that giving notice of the officer's authority and purpose before entering would endanger the safety of any person or result in the destruction of evidence.

C. A peace officer executing a search warrant may seize any property discovered in the course of the execution of the warrant if the officer has reasonable cause to believe that the item is subject to seizure under section 13-3912, even if the property is not enumerated in the warrant.

D. A peace officer executing a search warrant may make or cause to be made photographs, measurements, impressions or scientific tests.

E. A peace officer executing a search warrant directing a search of any premises or a vehicle may search any person in the premises or vehicle if either of the following applies:

1. It is reasonably necessary to protect himself or others from the use of any weapon that may be concealed upon the person.

2. It reasonably appears that property or items enumerated in the search warrant may be concealed upon the person. 

http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/13/03916.htm&Title=13&DocType=ARS

5 posted on 05/27/2011 9:21:09 PM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: marktwain

Let’s get rid of SWAT for everything besides hostage rescue.


6 posted on 05/27/2011 9:23:14 PM PDT by RedStateRocker (Nuke Mecca, Deport all illegals, abolish the IRS, DEA and ATF.)
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To: marktwain
Lesson learned: if the police are coming for you, you may already be a dead man. So, either surrender to your death meekly, or fight back and take some of them with you.

The old notion of raising your hands and walking out to the squad car is movie stuff. The government wants you dead. And how do you feel about them?

7 posted on 05/27/2011 9:23:43 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (The USSR spent itself into bankruptcy and collapsed -- and aren't we on the same path now?)
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To: bamahead

fyi


8 posted on 05/27/2011 9:25:17 PM PDT by rabscuttle385 (Live Free or Die)
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To: Moonman62

Thank you for the post and source. Very informative. There is no way that the officers waited a “reasonable time”.


9 posted on 05/27/2011 9:26:58 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Bloom said by law, police are always justified to shoot anytime they are threatened with deadly force. And once police pull the trigger they are justified to keep shooting until they run out of ammunition.
****************************************************
By Blooms reasoning I would have been completely justified in killing 7 police officers in the last 2 years.

Obviously Blooms reasoning is faulty, the police created the confrontation, did not adequately identify who they were or why they were there and THEY immediately had guns trained on whatever was on the other side of the door with no knowledge of what might be there ,, a baby’s playpen? a family pet? old people playing chess?


10 posted on 05/27/2011 9:28:18 PM PDT by Neidermeyer
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To: marktwain
My neighbor has a car alarm that goes off inadvertently about once a month. I probably would have ignored that short blast of the police siren too.

If I'm sitting at home, watching TV or whatever, and suddenly someone's beating hell out of my front door and yelling something (that I probably won't understand through my steel, insulated security door), and I know I haven't done anything wrong, I'm supposed to assume it's the cops? If I guess wrong (cops or home invasion?) I'm dead either way.

11 posted on 05/27/2011 9:28:22 PM PDT by FlyVet
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To: RedStateRocker

Let’s get rid of SWAT for everything besides hostage rescue.
**************************************************
But that would reduce their overtime pay and we can’t have that...


12 posted on 05/27/2011 9:29:43 PM PDT by Neidermeyer
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To: marktwain

When I watched the videos I had no idea those were police sirens. I thought they had bumped his car and the car alarm was going off. Who the hell pays attention to neighborhood car alarms anymore?


13 posted on 05/27/2011 9:35:15 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: marktwain

There is a vast difference between what is legal and what is the exercise of good judgment.

.


14 posted on 05/27/2011 9:43:15 PM PDT by old curmudgeon
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To: marktwain
Relaxing for the evening? Look at your front door. Are you going to be alive in the morning? Are you going to be dead in a few hours? Who knows? It's a crap shoot in this dictatorship.

15 posted on 05/27/2011 9:43:47 PM PDT by I see my hands (Embrace misanthropy)
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To: marktwain

Brought to you by the militarization of the police.


16 posted on 05/27/2011 9:47:56 PM PDT by andyk (Wealth != Income)
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To: doc1019

I can buy that SWAT can open fire if they see a weapon. When a person flashes a weapon, you don’t know their intent, and you have less than a second to react.

However, what I don’t buy under any circumstances was the need to send out SWAT in the first place.

1. The police and DA’s know who the big time dealers and dangerous people already are. They know who should be sent SWAT and who should not. If you’re not on the list, you’re probably not SWAT worthy, so don’t send SWAT.

2. They could easily look up in the guy’s records as to whether he had a criminal record or not, and if he did, what kind of record he had. If he only has a few parking tickets and doesn’t have a record of horribly hurting people, he’s probably not SWAT worthy, so don’t send SWAT.

Seriously, they should have a checklist to ensure nobody dies unnecessarily.


17 posted on 05/27/2011 9:48:08 PM PDT by Jonty30
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To: old curmudgeon
Look that video should care the hell out of every American citizen. They knock and 7 seconds later they bust the door down. They exhibit no fire dicipline and I can't prove it but my guess is the first guy in tripped and they all emptied their guns.

When I hear suspicious noises, I grab the 12 gauge. If a SWAT team gets briefed that I am a murderer I have no doubt that their fire discipline will be compromised just like in Arizona.

18 posted on 05/27/2011 9:52:51 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: marktwain

Watched the video. Threw up.

The time delay from the sirens til they bashed the door was barely enough for someone to grasp what was going on.

The way they crowded the door to get a shot in was disgusting.

IMHO, this was negligent homocide by the thugcops, at the minimum.

Then add the “let him bleed out for over an hour” because they knew they’d screwed up factor, and I’d vote to convict for murder 1 if on a jury.

Nothing will happen though. We live in a police state, and these type of thugcops can execute any of us nearly at will. (I almost said “try to,” but this was a combat tested Marine. Anyone thinks they’d do better is lying to themselves unless they’re SEALS or the like.)


19 posted on 05/27/2011 9:55:44 PM PDT by piytar (Obama opposed every tool used to get Osama. So of course he gets the credit. /hurl)
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To: Jonty30

My earlier post was too short.

I had meant to convey the thought you expressed when you said that SWAT should never have been employed.

Very poor judgment and bad enough that whoever made that decision should be canned. And in the can.

This use of SWAT was akin to using a .50 caliber machine gun when a shot of Mace will do the job.


20 posted on 05/27/2011 9:56:51 PM PDT by old curmudgeon
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To: Jonty30
I read the SWAT supervisor statement and in it he indicated that they had been briefed that the victim was a murderer and the muscle behind a drug gang. FWIW I don't believe a word of it but if it were true why didn't they just nail him after the 12 hour hift at the mine.

The higher up screwed up in the briefing and the SWAT team members need to learn some fire discipline.

21 posted on 05/27/2011 10:01:17 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: marktwain

They are going to rue the day they ever thought of themselves as “elite” when they are sniped by ordinary run of the mill americans who are sick of the police state bearing down on em. You cant raid what you cant see.


22 posted on 05/27/2011 10:01:23 PM PDT by Soothesayer9
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To: marktwain

I’ve always been a pro-cop guy, in general, and have SWAT friends here and there.

But has anyone noticed that before they breached the door, one of the boys says “Bang Bang Bang”, just loud enough for the microphone to pick it up?

At least one person on that team WANTED to kill, IMHO.


23 posted on 05/27/2011 10:02:41 PM PDT by LegendHasIt
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To: piytar; marktwain

absolutely agree. especially about the murder 1.
the original mistakes are bad enough, but they had the medics on site in <5 minutes, and let him bleed to death for 1:14.
...and especially, after reading this, and learning they probably planted the “big gun”:

Statement of Vanessa Guerena (wife of Marine killed by AZ SWAT.)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2725997/posts

Petitfour in Post 18 gives a very moving summary, with much info i didn’t know.


24 posted on 05/27/2011 10:03:54 PM PDT by Elendur (the hope and change i need: Sarah / Colonel West in 2012)
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To: piytar

Watch the guy who drops back, while the others approach the door. Once the shooting starts, he rushes the door and appears to raise his gun over the shoulders of the other cops and blindly shoot into the home.


25 posted on 05/27/2011 10:06:32 PM PDT by Krankor (that caused the place to be shut down and have the police called.)
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To: old curmudgeon

You’re right. They should have taken the necessary time to ensure who it was they were dealing with before they went in. It sould have not only saved a man’s life, but it would have also not compromised a case, in the event the guy was a real deal.

I hope the sheriff loses his next election, he certainly should have been one of the ones asking questions.

My guess is that he might have either been star-struck over seeing SWAT for the first time, or he was licking his chops as to the kind of boost a big drug bust would have given his re-election chances.

I’m hoping they have now sunk into a deep hole.


26 posted on 05/27/2011 10:06:43 PM PDT by Jonty30
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To: old curmudgeon

“This use of SWAT was akin to using a .50 caliber machine gun when a shot of Mace will do the job.”

More than a few headcases are attracted to such pseudo-military jobs for exactly that reason.

This was murder, if only negligent homicide. I wonder who the murder victim had offended, and how. He may well have been a complainant about area drug trafficking, and rewarded accordingly. That is pure speculation, but something here is very, very wrong and it preceded this execution.


27 posted on 05/27/2011 10:08:42 PM PDT by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans: Don't read their lips - watch their hands.)
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To: LegendHasIt
"one of the boys says “Bang Bang Bang”

Noticed that. Asked a former spook/officer I know. That's tactical talk for "bang down the door." Akin to "go go go," but meaning take the door out.

I'm not defending the thugcops. See above - I'd convict for murder 2 or maybe 1 if on a jury judging them. Just adding some info...

28 posted on 05/27/2011 10:09:04 PM PDT by piytar (Obama opposed every tool used to get Osama. So of course he gets the credit. /hurl)
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To: marktwain
Hey, Sheriff Dipstick, you forgot your souvenir T-Shirts for the S.W.A.T. team!(*)

(*) "S.W.A.T" = "stupid wild-assed thugs"

PRAYERS UP for justice -- and for his orphaned children who are going around asking "Was Daddy bad?"

Hint: What would've happened if they would've been filmed doing the same thing in Iraq?

29 posted on 05/27/2011 10:15:44 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: piytar

It is really worse than you describe.

I did not look at the video, but I get the picture.

Guy works 12 hours in the mine. Easy job?

Not hardly.

According to reports I saw, he had slept only about two hours when the SWAT team arrived.

Think about it. Very hard job, long hours and asleep for two hours.

That is the period when most people are really sound asleep, very hard to wake up, etc.

I have slept through thunderstorms, my cell ringing with 24” of my head, dogs barking, etc., under similar circumstances.

Complicated by the fact that English is not his wife’s first language and was terrified so the amount of communication possible is 5 seconds or so was very likely not helpful to him.

I don’t know what mine is saying half the time when I am wide awake and English is very much her first and only language.

So the cops’ terrible judgment, might I call it stupidity, and his disadvantaged position doomed him from the start.

But the burden is on the cops because they should never have been there under the circumstances. Meeting him as he got off work would have resolved the whole matter with no risk to anyone. No one comes out of the mine with a AK-15 or uzi.


30 posted on 05/27/2011 10:19:35 PM PDT by old curmudgeon
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To: piytar
"tactical talk for "bang down the door." Akin to "go go go," but meaning take the door out."

New one on me. "Breach, Bang and Clear" is what I'm familiar with.

31 posted on 05/27/2011 10:23:14 PM PDT by LegendHasIt
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To: Neidermeyer
...did not adequately identify who they were...

The proof that they didn't is that the marine responded to their entry by arming himself. But as pointed our, raising his hands and attempting to surrender might have been just as fatal.

32 posted on 05/27/2011 10:24:18 PM PDT by luvbach1 (Stop Obamania in 2012)
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To: piytar

watch their body language, too. one guy has his rifle slung over his back. no one seemed to be very tense. the guys turning on the siren for a couple of seconds seems happy. sounds like the radio is on in the vehicle. looked like they were having fun - until they started shooting.


33 posted on 05/27/2011 10:26:45 PM PDT by stansblugrassgrl (PRAISE THE LORD AND PASS THE AMMUNITION!!! YEEEEEHAW!)
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To: jwalsh07

That is something, wow. I did not read that. HOWEVER, I did read an interview with the lawyer representing the SWAT members and I found it very strange. According to that interview, there were several other houses that were raided at the same time, NO arrests. He said IF, Jose had just let them in he would not have been arrested either. Hello???


34 posted on 05/27/2011 10:26:48 PM PDT by panthermom (Pray for my son in Aghanistan and all the troops!)
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To: All

I’ve been screaming and yelling as loud as I can for months and months now, posting every news article I can find trying to show all of y’all the cops in this country are completely out of control...

Just hit my screen name look at my threads I’ve started in the past 12 months or so...


35 posted on 05/27/2011 10:34:11 PM PDT by The Magical Mischief Tour (With The Resistance...)
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To: All

I’ve been screaming and yelling as loud as I can for months and months now, posting every news article I can find trying to show all of y’all the cops in this country are completely out of control...

Just hit my screen name look at my threads I’ve started in the past 12 months or so...


36 posted on 05/27/2011 10:35:08 PM PDT by The Magical Mischief Tour (With The Resistance...)
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To: All

I’ve been screaming and yelling as loud as I can for months and months now, posting every news article I can find trying to show all of y’all the cops in this country are completely out of control...

Just hit my screen name look at my threads I’ve started in the past 12 months or so...


37 posted on 05/27/2011 10:35:08 PM PDT by The Magical Mischief Tour (With The Resistance...)
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To: LegendHasIt
"Breach, bang, and clear"

Apparently some jurisdictions have simplified it to "bang bang bang." After all, union backed thugcops don't have to be exactly intelligent, and three words is a lot to remember when you're about to execute a retired Marine who has barely slept for three days...

38 posted on 05/27/2011 10:44:42 PM PDT by piytar (Obama opposed every tool used to get Osama. So of course he gets the credit. /hurl)
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To: ClearCase_guy

I believe that the way that a certain blogger puts it is that you are no longer entitled to a fair trial, only an unfair firefight.


39 posted on 05/27/2011 10:47:52 PM PDT by thecabal (The Golden Rule: He who has the gold, makes the rules.)
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To: LegendHasIt

You are not the first to notice this. This was an execution squad.


40 posted on 05/27/2011 10:50:18 PM PDT by thecabal (The Golden Rule: He who has the gold, makes the rules.)
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To: marktwain
The only thing the former Marine did was to try and defend his family from a break in by unknowns, like any real man would do.
The only thing the cops did was screw up in every possible way.

God bless this Marine who made his family as safe as possible first and then died trying to defend them from unknown invaders to his property.
He is a hero and the cops, in this instance, acted like thugs and murders.

41 posted on 05/27/2011 10:50:26 PM PDT by The Cajun (Palin, Bachmann, Free Republic, Mark Levin, Rush, Hannity......Nuff said.)
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To: Jonty30

“They should have taken the necessary time to ensure who it was they were dealing with”

They did. They knew he was a combat vet, which is why they went in hot.

Ping to all vets: The thugcops consider you a threat and will preemptively kill you. Keep that in mind if/when it becomes the police state versus us, OK?

Same to you active duty service members. Which side will you choose?

Sadly, it’s clear what side most “police officers” (excepting a few such as my friend), BATFE thugs, nearly all SWAT, and the like will come down on. And terrifyingly. To them, we’re sheep to be intimidated and if expedient exterminated. Period.


42 posted on 05/27/2011 10:51:17 PM PDT by piytar (Obama opposed every tool used to get Osama. So of course he gets the credit. /hurl)
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To: panthermom
SWAT team leaders statement in PDF.
43 posted on 05/27/2011 10:51:48 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: The Cajun
He is a hero and the cops, in this instance, were acted like thugs and murders.

My view...

44 posted on 05/27/2011 10:54:36 PM PDT by piytar (Obama opposed every tool used to get Osama. So of course he gets the credit. /hurl)
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To: piytar

I stand corrected, you are right.


45 posted on 05/27/2011 10:55:40 PM PDT by The Cajun (Palin, Bachmann, Free Republic, Mark Levin, Rush, Hannity......Nuff said.)
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To: piytar

Remember that Janet “Reno” Napolitano put out a report to “law enforcement” a few years ago identifying returning vets as a prime threat.


46 posted on 05/27/2011 10:57:36 PM PDT by thecabal (The Golden Rule: He who has the gold, makes the rules.)
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To: old curmudgeon

It’s starting to look like the AR15 was a throw down. Makes sense to me. After all, how many combat vets arm up and then provide an easy sight picture? They don’t. He##, I wouldn’t, and I’m a civi. I’d be prone or behind cover.

But he was tired? Sure. But a combat tested Marine shrugs off tired in a heart beat if the SHTF. Otherwise, he’d have been a combat killed Marine.

What I think happened? Idiot thugcop stumbled on the door jamb and pops off a round, the other thugcops panic and executed a man tiredly stumbling into the hallway wondering what was going on, the thugcops made sure he bled out, they assaulted and tried to intimidate his wife into shutting up, and now people are learning some facts. (The AR throw down and the assault on and intimidation of the wife are discussed in a link somewhere up thread.)

The question is, will there be justice? I doubt it in our police state nation. At least not through official channels...


47 posted on 05/27/2011 11:08:13 PM PDT by piytar (Obama opposed every tool used to get Osama. So of course he gets the credit. /hurl)
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To: thecabal
Remember that Janet “Reno” Napolitano put out a report to “law enforcement” a few years ago identifying returning vets as a prime threat.

Exactly! And this is a direct result of that memo IMHO!!!

48 posted on 05/27/2011 11:10:40 PM PDT by piytar (Obama opposed every tool used to get Osama. So of course he gets the credit. /hurl)
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To: marktwain
Bloom said by law, police are always justified to shoot anytime they are threatened with deadly force. And once police pull the trigger they are justified to keep shooting until they run out of ammunition.

Try using that as a defense as a civilian.

Self-defense is self-defense - as long a cops' lives are literally worth more to the Court than civilian lives, people will live in fear of the government.

49 posted on 05/27/2011 11:16:41 PM PDT by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on its own.)
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To: Elendur

I just want to say that I would hope to heck that no one planted a weapon at the scene. The widow’s recounting of events does make it sound like the weapon(s) could have been planted, but this would not be the first time a spouse was totally oblivious to the actions of a significant other. And people do lie and lie convincingly. I want to know more about the warrant and the evidence against Jose Guerena that led them to believe he was a serious threat.


50 posted on 05/27/2011 11:20:42 PM PDT by petitfour (Are you a Dead Fish American?)
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