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All four homes in raid tied to Guerena family
Arizona Daily Star ^ | 6/28/2011 | Fernanda Echavarri

Posted on 05/28/2011 1:49:58 AM PDT by petitfour

Records released by the Pima County Sheriff's Department this week show that the four houses served with search warrants the morning of May 5 - when Jose Guerena was shot and killed by a SWAT team - are less than four miles apart and are all connected to the Guerena family.

And while initial reports were that doctors told the Guerena family that Jose had been shot 60 times, the Pima County medical examiner's preliminary report says he was shot 22 times. In its sole briefing on the incident, the Sheriff's Department said SWAT team members fired 71 rounds.

Aside from releasing more than 500 pages of documents about the incident, the department has remained mum since the May 10 briefing.

The raid netted drugs, large amounts of cash, bulletproof vests, about 30 cellphones and a stolen vehicle, records show, but no arrests have been made.

(Excerpt) Read more at azstarnet.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: guerena; jackbootedthugs; jbt; jbts; joseguerena; murder; pigs; pimacounty; swat; thinblueline; tucson
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A lot more info
1 posted on 05/28/2011 1:50:06 AM PDT by petitfour
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To: petitfour

A lot more assertions, anyway.


2 posted on 05/28/2011 2:07:17 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans: Don't read their lips - watch their hands.)
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To: petitfour

Over 71 rounds and only 22 hit?

Trigger-happy AND poor shots. A bad combination.


3 posted on 05/28/2011 2:13:29 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007 (To view the FR@Alabama ping list, click on my profile!)
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To: petitfour
22 wounds? Well then, that makes it OK.

No drugs or large amounts of cash were found inside Jose Guerena's home, but detectives seized a Colt .38-caliber handgun, paperwork, tax returns including one with Jose and Graciela Celaya's name, insurance papers, bank statements and a bank card, reports show. Another report said detectives found body armor in a hallway closet and a U.S. Border Patrol hat in the garage.

Yep. He clearly was a drug lord, who had finished a 12-hour shift in a mine.

If SWAT could spin any harder, then they would be SWATting themselves.

4 posted on 05/28/2011 2:16:21 AM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner (Sarah Palin has crossed the Rubicon!)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

You bring up a good point. Did Jose Guerena work three days in a row doing the night shift?


5 posted on 05/28/2011 2:19:37 AM PDT by petitfour (Are you a Dead Fish American?)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

As for 22 wounds versus 60, dead is dead. Without firing a weapon. I’d like to see the video of the man pointing a weapon at them and saying, “I’ve got something for you.”


6 posted on 05/28/2011 2:22:05 AM PDT by petitfour (Are you a Dead Fish American?)
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To: petitfour
Can't anyone in this country serve a warrant any more without the SWAT team kicking in the door? Shouldn't a USMC veteran with no criminal record be given the benefit of the doubt rather than being seen as a potential threat? Did any of the SWAT team members have a cellphone they could have used to just call the guy first?

Based on what's out so far, this is just total BS and they're trying to cover their butts for making a bad call in a situation they should never have created in the first place. Damn, if he had a regular job they could have served him a warrant any time they wanted right at his job. Or, would they have needed a SWAT team to do that as well?

7 posted on 05/28/2011 2:29:58 AM PDT by Rashputin (Obama is insane but kept medicated and on golf courses to hide it)
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To: petitfour
Gee....if they knew that, seems like there could have been enough time to get some legal judge-issued warrants, shouldn't there?
8 posted on 05/28/2011 2:30:58 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

I swear, the guy was executed because his brother was a jackass criminal, apparently.

Can you just imagine if they start applying that on a large scale?

Who doesn’t have a nutcase family member, or the loose term “family member by marriage”...what does that mean, exactly...stepmother’s second cousin; wife’s stepbrother’s third cousin??

You all might want to rethink your invitations to the family Christmas Party this year...lest you become an unwitting “associate.”


9 posted on 05/28/2011 2:38:12 AM PDT by garandgal
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To: Rashputin

“Shouldn’t a USMC veteran with no criminal record be given the benefit of the doubt rather than being seen as a potential threat?”

You’re kidding, right? Don’t you know Janet “Big Sis” Napolitano considers former military people to be amoung those most likely to pose a threat to our country.


10 posted on 05/28/2011 2:55:43 AM PDT by jocon307
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To: petitfour
• 9:33 a.m., Jose and Graciela Celaya's house, 6200 block of West Oklahoma Street. Most of the cash and drugs that detectives seized were found here, where Alejandro Guerena's wife, Pauline, and child were found, along with Graciela Celaya, two unidentified women and another child.

Pauline Guerena let detectives inside the home, where they found a large shoebox under a bed containing about $94,000, a bag of marijuana in the stove, ammunition, an AK-47 rifle, other guns and bulletproof vests. Seven vehicles were found at the residence and drug-sniffing dogs alerted officers to the smell of narcotics on most of the vehicles.

That's quite a bit of money but it's not illegal to own it AFAIK. So this is where they found "most of the drugs" and that is described as "a bag of marijuana in the stove." A trash bag full? A gallon baggie full? A quart ziplock? A snack-sized ziplock?

Of course the obligatory media report of an AK-47 with no mention of whether it's full-auto (legal with proper paperwork) or a semi-auto which is very common and legal with no special permit required.

The drug-sniffing dog alerted to "narcotics" in "most of the vehicles." Given that 90% of all paper currency has detectable amounts of cocaine on it that's not particularly notable. Do those dogs tell their handlers which "narcotic" they are alerting to? One bark for pot, two barks for crack, three for meth?

11 posted on 05/28/2011 3:02:08 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: petitfour
I suspected this story was going to turn out badly for Cop Haters and the otherwise well meaning FReepers being used a tools to further their legalize drugs agenda.
12 posted on 05/28/2011 3:10:58 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper (Obama can't see something pure like the truth without wanting to abort it.)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

When you have to resort to unfounded character assassination to make a point you have no point.


13 posted on 05/28/2011 3:22:15 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: TigersEye
“Well meaning FReepers” is character assassination?

Do you agree then that those pushing a legalize drugs agenda are scum?

14 posted on 05/28/2011 3:25:01 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper (Obama can't see something pure like the truth without wanting to abort it.)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

My boss is a Gulf war vet and he still has his body armor and kevlar helmet.
I have a NYPD hat{two of them really}.
I also have the new generation BDU jacket.
Do I have to worry about getting raided/


15 posted on 05/28/2011 3:27:03 AM PDT by Yorlik803 (better to die on your feet than live on your knees.)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

No, I think statist bootlickers are scum. Un-American scum.


16 posted on 05/28/2011 3:27:16 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

I also think people who make unfounded accusations that FReepers are “pro-drug” are scum.


17 posted on 05/28/2011 3:28:31 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: TigersEye
Not all FReepers. But I see you don't let details bother you any.

You are badly informed because there have been pro-drugs threads posted on FR.

As you should well know.

18 posted on 05/28/2011 3:32:51 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper (Obama can't see something pure like the truth without wanting to abort it.)
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To: TigersEye
I see you are bending over backwards taking the side of suspects who are even found with illegal drugs in their oven.

Do you even know what that makes you look like to hard working law abiding conservative Americans?

Hint: Not good.

19 posted on 05/28/2011 3:35:58 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper (Obama can't see something pure like the truth without wanting to abort it.)
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To: Yorlik803
Interesting to see how any former Marines have committed felonies.

Start with the University of Texas tower shooter Charles Whitman....then of course Lee Harvey Oswald....

Not always a good defense.

20 posted on 05/28/2011 3:37:14 AM PDT by DainBramage
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To: Berlin_Freeper
I see you are bending over backwards taking the side of suspects who are even found with illegal drugs in their oven.

There were no drugs found in Jose Guerena's house and no reasonable person would think a SWAT team is necessary to arrest someone for a "bag of marijuana." You're bending over backwards to defend the indefensible murder of a man in his home.

21 posted on 05/28/2011 3:39:06 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: DainBramage

That’s two. What percentage of Marines do you calculate that to be?


22 posted on 05/28/2011 3:42:12 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: DainBramage

I am not a Marine, but I take insult at that remark. Every branch of the military has it fair share of losers after they were discharged.
Dahmer was a US army vet.
The Boston Strangler was also a army vet.


23 posted on 05/28/2011 3:42:27 AM PDT by Yorlik803 (better to die on your feet than live on your knees.)
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To: garandgal
You all might want to rethink your invitations to the family Christmas Party this year...lest you become an unwitting “associate.”

Do you think that the request for the warrant included their "Facebook" profile? What a thought.

24 posted on 05/28/2011 3:51:06 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: petitfour
The raid netted drugs, large amounts of cash, bulletproof vests, about 30 cellphones and a stolen vehicle, records show, but no arrests have been made.

How do you square that statement with the accusation of drug distribution?

I think all this says is that Dupnik is a buffoon.

25 posted on 05/28/2011 4:00:01 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: Berlin_Freeper
No drugs or large amounts of cash were found inside Jose Guerena's home

I am not a hater of the police. But I do despise the very concept of the widespread militarisation of the police in the U.S.

26 posted on 05/28/2011 4:08:43 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: Berlin_Freeper
Do you agree then that those pushing a legalize drugs agenda are scum?

Have you stopped beating your wife?

27 posted on 05/28/2011 4:09:16 AM PDT by glorgau
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To: Yorlik803

You probably don’t have to worry about getting raided, but you can bet that if it happens, after your funeral the SWAT lawyer will talk about your police and paramilitary gear.

I have several history books and some insignia that my father captured in WWII, so after my funeral they’ll probably talk about my Nazi memorabilia. My rather modest gun collection will be “an arsenal” and my reloading gear will be “explosives manufacturing material”. My seabags full of old uniforms will be “enough military gear to outfit a small army”.

I believe that the vast majority of police officers are honest, brave public servants who have a Hell of a tough job. That doesn’t mean that don’t screw up on occasion, and I think that they tend to circle the wagons when it happens, and the lawyers they retain spin events as hard as they can to make the mistake look justified. It’s their job.

I’m probably much more likely to get hit by lightning than get killed in a SWAT raid, since I avoid illegal activity and those that engage in it.

I’m sure that if I lost the lottery and that one in a million mistake brought the door kickers to my house, and I wound with twenty holes in me, they wouldn’t be issuing press releases later attesting to my sterling character.


28 posted on 05/28/2011 4:09:22 AM PDT by M1911A1
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To: Berlin_Freeper

P.S. the “beating your wife” comment want was meant to illustrate your use of the “complex question” logical fallacy and not to imply that you beat your wife (if you even have a wife).


29 posted on 05/28/2011 4:14:41 AM PDT by glorgau
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To: Berlin_Freeper
Do you agree then that those pushing a legalize drugs agenda are scum?

Ummm. NO.

30 posted on 05/28/2011 4:16:49 AM PDT by southern rock
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To: petitfour
And while initial reports were that doctors told the Guerena family that Jose had been shot 60 times, the Pima County medical examiner's preliminary report says he was shot 22 times.

I'm glad they lead with that. Well, that convinces me. The police did the right thing.

31 posted on 05/28/2011 4:16:56 AM PDT by Fido969
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To: petitfour

> And while initial reports were that doctors told the
> Guerena family that Jose had been shot 60 times, the Pima
> County medical examiner’s preliminary report says he was
> shot 22 times.

Oh, that makes me feel a whole lot better.
/s


32 posted on 05/28/2011 4:22:14 AM PDT by Westbrook (Having children does not divide your love, it multiplies it.)
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To: All

On the article page, there is a pdf file of interview of one of the officers.

It is reported that the Guerena family is involved with the drug cartel. It is also noted that they are involved in “drug rips”. I believe this is where gangs raid other gangs of money and drugs.

In addition, the Guerena family is noted for being involved in a double homicide.

It might be a good idea FOR ALL OF YOU COP HATERS...to wait for more information to come out on this. This may not be the best case to float your silly, “we are a police state” fantasies.


33 posted on 05/28/2011 4:27:59 AM PDT by rbmillerjr (Murdering unborn children is the highest sacrament in the liberal religion.)
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To: TigersEye

You are working to hard for excuses. Actually, snifferdogs at Arizona checkpoints stop very few vehicles. It depends on what they are trained for.


34 posted on 05/28/2011 4:33:34 AM PDT by Melchior
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To: Psalm 144
Just a few thoughts:

From the PDF report of one of the officers involved, when asked about how he was identified:
"Uh, on my vest I have a, uh, circular patch that says Sheriff on it. Um, I think on my back I have Uh, a Sheriff patch.... (etc)."

Lest we forget, there have been articles posted here at FR and other places in the last couple of weeks that the Cartels members are wearing police uniforms quite regularly.

Between that, and the new 'laws' there are going to be a lot more killings, and not always bad guys and suspected bad guys, what with all the new "no knock warrants" and the new "You don't need a warrant at all if you are suspicious" ruling from the Supreme Court.

Of course 0bama, and his co-conspirators want it that way. They want warfare between the enforcers and the civilians. It will help them shut down the Constitution completely.

Plus, the Sergeant, On page 11 of the PDF doesn't even know for certain how he was armed when the raid started. That is true professionalism.

This is a very distressing event, even if the SWAT team did everything 'right' and even if it turns out that Guerena was as dirty and dangerous as they claim. I hate to see stuff like this, because I appreciate the tough and dangerous job that police officers do, and like pretty much all of the ones I am acquainted with and /or have met in the performance of their duties. But I also have a lot of love for freedom and the concept of innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

35 posted on 05/28/2011 4:35:02 AM PDT by LegendHasIt
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To: DainBramage
And on a per capita basis?
36 posted on 05/28/2011 4:35:25 AM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Berlin_Freeper
"Do you agree then that those pushing a legalize drugs agenda are scum?"

No. The simple fact is that more damage is being done to this country by the militarization of law enforcement and the accompanying damage to Constitutional rights than by drugs. IOW, the cure is worse than the disease.

Personal note...the only "drug" I've ever used (other than prescription) was tobacco, and I quit that fifteen years ago.

37 posted on 05/28/2011 4:36:00 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: Yorlik803
Im just saying that every article starts out with "former marine" shot 70 times doesnt make him more.. or less innocent, nor does it make the swat more guilty. Its not always a clear indicator of innocence.

I have a feeling this is going to come back around and there will be more to why they raided the house than these article indicate.

Along the same lines Not all cops are guilty because they are cops. Of course you wouldnt know that on Freerepublic.

38 posted on 05/28/2011 4:37:52 AM PDT by DainBramage
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To: Melchior
You are working to hard for excuses. Actually, snifferdogs at Arizona checkpoints stop very few vehicles. It depends on what they are trained for.

No, I asked a couple of questions your non-sequitur about check points notwithstanding.

39 posted on 05/28/2011 4:39:09 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: grey_whiskers
What does it matter what percentage? Its most definitley not 100 so why does every thing hinge on him being a former marine?

How many cops are former marines, yet on here they are scum no matter.

40 posted on 05/28/2011 4:39:40 AM PDT by DainBramage
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To: rbmillerjr

It might be good if you didn’t take allegations and reshape them into facts.


41 posted on 05/28/2011 4:41:22 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: Ultra Sonic 007

Over 71 rounds and only 22 hit?

Remember, Pima SWAT are ‘elite’ riflemen at 15 feet. Sounds like they really need to have a firearms qualifications course with some many misses which children and neighbors at risk.


42 posted on 05/28/2011 4:42:02 AM PDT by WaterBoard
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To: Yorlik803

“Do I have to worry about getting raided”

It would appear we ALL have to worry about that.

Look at this in terms of the recent (and eventually to be over turned we can only hope God help us!) decision in Indianna, that the cops are free to enter your home, at any time, for NO REASON AT ALL.

I’ve always considered myself a law and order person. But on the few occasions where a cop has come to my door, I never let him in. I close the door and speak with the officer outside.

I have my 4th amendment right.

Gosh darn it, this is America people.

THIS IS AMERICA.

We have rights, that our amazing founding fathers had the God given brilliance to enumerate for us. GOD GIVEN RIGHTS, Rights that anyone in their right mind KNOWS they should have.

Rights, that come from God, that mankind has been struggling to gain and protect for thousands of years. So that is is not just a situation of strong against weak, where “might” makes “right”.

SINCE THE FREAKING CAVES.

Honestly, I am a conservative, but I am just about ready to go full libertarian with some of the stuff I see here and elsewhere.

It looks like this guy was clean, but EVEN IF he was not, is he Charles Manson? Is he son-of-sam? Is he Osama Bin-Laden?

The actions of the cops in this situation CANNOT be justified.


43 posted on 05/28/2011 4:44:01 AM PDT by jocon307
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To: Berlin_Freeper

Simple official story has changed too many times for it to be veritable.

Originally the reports were of 71 shots upon the victim.

Then the reports from the Sheriff were of only 6 of the 71 shots having struck their target.

Most reports on the web now indicate he was struck by 60 of the 71 shots fired.

It’s as though the story is scrubbed and rescrubbed to fit whatever agenda is at hand.

IMHO, from the video, the team making the assault behaved similar to the type of individuals who lack virtue and wouldn’t discount planting weapons, drugs, or any other evidence at the scene to cover up their criminal actions.

Transcripts of the SWAT Cmdr don’t seem to be consistent.
http://azstarnet.com/online/pdf/pdf_1dcb28b4-8825-11e0-b417-001cc4c002e0.html

They first claim the residents were bad guys, part of an extensive 4 house drug cartel, drug running operation, who had situational awareness of anybody watching them. After the shooting, they receive calls of wounded innocent people being reported at other address numbers, which didn’t exist, so their immediate plan is to go next door and breach that house looking for wounded civilians from errant rounds of the initial assault. All of this happening while a 4 yr old child is still in the house they first attacked, had called the mother out and she surrendered to their custody.

If they assumed this was a dangerous situation, really didn’t know all the address numbers, nor even the name of the person whom they were going after, assumed he had eyes in the back of his head, used weapons which would penetrate walls for blocks in their assault, then reacted to breach the neighbor’s house, but with intent of looking for wounded bystanders,.....wouldn’t anybody with tactical sense first be more cautious of conducting a frontal assault on an overwatch position?

The victim had previously been reported as having body armor and an M16/AR15. SWAT team cmdr reported the victim was only wearing boxer shorts and obviously dead, shot many times with exit wounds in his head, arm, leg, back, arms over his head, laying down with lots of brain matter, bone fragments in the walls and lots of blood,...so much that he was declared dead by a doctor watching via a video on a robot which had bumped into the victim several times to provoke a response, without any movement.

The body armor they discovered was in a 3’x2’ plastic storage container in the garage with a Border patrol hat (aside,..he was a Marine,..sure that wasn’t a DI hat?)

In the transcript, the SWAT CMDR is quoted, “Um, since I’m not going to do a report, can I throw a few more things in that we saw?”

Why wouldn’t the Cmdr at the scene, conducting the operation prepare a formal report? This all falls on the head of those who relieved him of reporting and that person or persons needs to be held fully responsible, including proof that they have not been planting evidence to coverup their inappropriate behavior.

On top of all of this, the SWAT CMDR was scared during the shooting, which after the event now is fairly well documented as being an entirely one sided altercation.

IMHO, there is far more evidence to warrant a SWAT operation on the home of the persons directing these operations than the victims.

The cops have created a culture of perceiving the public as suspects and reinforcements as bodies, while they simply crave adrenaline rushes, then get scared and look for safety. They aren’t saving anybody other than their own lust for control.

This is why military commanders train to prepare 5 paragraph orders. It might not satiate the glandular lust for an adrenaline rush, but it keeps wherewithal controlling deadly force prior to and during the execution of the orders.

This report indicates all their behavior was learned response to a perceived threat when gunfire erupts, then just a series of learned tactics to control an unknown situation, but they all have begun based upon sloppy serving of a warrant and grossly inadequate police work.


44 posted on 05/28/2011 4:45:16 AM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: DainBramage
In post #20 you wrote:

Interesting to see how any former Marines have committed felonies. Start with the University of Texas tower shooter Charles Whitman....then of course Lee Harvey Oswald....

Not always a good defense.

Then in post #40 you wrote:

What does it matter what percentage? Its most definitley not 100 so why does every thing hinge on him being a former marine?

Make up your mind, mmmkay?

Cheers!

45 posted on 05/28/2011 4:45:34 AM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: DainBramage
Along the same lines Not all cops are guilty because they are cops. Of course you wouldnt know that on Freerepublic.

I take that comment to mean that you're a bootlicker eh? LOL

46 posted on 05/28/2011 4:45:46 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

You have not been keeping up with the police released evidence have you?

I will print it for you.

“Drug SWAT Team That Gunned Down Ex-Marine Found No Drugs”

http://abcnews.go.com/US/swat-team-gunned-marine-find-drugs/comments?type=story&id=13702756

So they killed a man during a search warrant that turned up empty. Good job.


47 posted on 05/28/2011 4:47:01 AM PDT by WaterBoard
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To: Cvengr
Take a bow, CVENGR.
48 posted on 05/28/2011 4:47:35 AM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: grey_whiskers

New evidence states that prior to shooting the mine worker in his boxer shorts, they they at flash bang in the house.

“Neighbors described it as a peaceful street.

That peace was shattered when SWAT team members busted open the door that morning and tossed “flash-bang” grenades inside, documents show. Seconds later, bullets started flying through the house, sending splinters and stucco chips through the air.”

So, now we are expected to believe that the police heard the murdered man say something over the effects of a flash bang in the seconds before shooting him.

Combine this this from the police report.

“Several SWAT team members reported later that they saw muzzle flashes and heard shots coming from the hall where Guerena reportedly was crouching.”

Unreliable police witnesses since the evidence states the murdered man never fired a shot.

Source: http://tucsoncitizen.com/arizona-news/2011/05/27/killing-by-swat-team-in-tucson-raises-questions/


49 posted on 05/28/2011 4:55:39 AM PDT by WaterBoard
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To: garandgal

I’m trying to imagine the scenario.
A young man joins the Marines to establish a decent identity for himself apart from his crooked relatives.
He gets himself off the streets and out of the trash.
He serves his country two tours in Iraq, comes home and sets himself up with a happy little wife and child.
Then he’s slaughtered by Dupnik’s incompetence.
Dupnik. Who blamed the Giffords’ slaughter on talk radio.
Bah.


50 posted on 05/28/2011 4:59:01 AM PDT by wildwood
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