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*Warning!* Rudy Giuliani leads new national poll *Warning!*
Politico ^ | 5/27/11 | MAGGIE HABERMAN

Posted on 05/28/2011 8:08:23 AM PDT by NoGrayZone

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To: OldNewYork
I stated the facts of Rudy's crime fighting successes pretty well. Crime began to decrease under Dinkins, continued to drop under Rudy and reached all time lows not seen since the mid-1960's under both Rudy and Bloomberg. The source for a lot of my factual accounts comes from the Manhatthan Institute. They have an on line website that use to offer an extensive archive service that has all the facts about Rudy's liberalism.

Just read your FR homepage, btw.

>>>>>I’m currently maintaining ping lists for ‘Draft Rand Paul President 2012’ ...

You're a NYCity libertarian, or should I say, 'liberaltarian'. LMAO That speaks for itself. Rand Paul is about as nutty as his old man. Anyone who would promote Rand Paul for potus needs to have their head examined.

101 posted on 05/28/2011 11:32:00 AM PDT by Reagan Man ("In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.")
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To: NoGrayZone
"Have you not been keeping up? Sarah, or phase two (bust)."

I keep up very well. Are you not literate?

So when you said: "Sarah or bust, or it's on to phase two" you meant to communicate: ''Sarah or phase two which is bust", is that right?

Could you be a little more specific? If phase two is bust then what exactly is bust?


102 posted on 05/28/2011 11:33:41 AM PDT by I see my hands (Embrace misanthropy)
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To: Reagan Man

Listen NON NEW YORKER. You can read whatever the heck you want and base your “opinions” on that.

As I’ve stated, I’ve lived through ALL those Mayors. NYC didn’t hate Rudy for no reason. He cleaned up that dirty toilet like NO other Mayor has. The fact you defend Dinkins shows me how little you know about NY.

He was on my ballot. Did I vote for him? NO. I voted for Sarah. Calling her a “red herring” is bullsh$t. If I wanted him as POTUS (which you claim I do), I would have pulled the lever for him.....but I did not. I pulled it for Sarah and her tag along.

Yes, I will defend Rudy when it comes to NYC.....show me ONCE where I came to his defense regarding POTUS.

You can’t because I never did.


103 posted on 05/28/2011 11:36:12 AM PDT by NoGrayZone ("Islamophobia: The irrational fear of being beheaded.")
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To: I see my hands

Look up phase two in search. I do not want the SSSR coming to my home.

Sorry if my post seemed snotty, I didn’t mean it that way.


104 posted on 05/28/2011 11:40:29 AM PDT by NoGrayZone ("Islamophobia: The irrational fear of being beheaded.")
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To: NoGrayZone

A social liberal might be OK if he supports the 10th amendment. There is very little social policy legitimately decided at the federal level.

Any idea where Giuliani stands on State rights and the Constitution?


105 posted on 05/28/2011 11:42:38 AM PDT by UnwashedPeasant (Don't nuke me, bro)
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To: Reagan Man; NoGrayZone

You’re a funny guy. You accuse other people of emotionalism, when it’s what you go directly to as your first response - that and immediate ad hominems and issues only tangentially related.

I never defended Giuliani as a conservative, and clearly stated I don’t support him, as anyone can see. He had the Liberal Party endorsement, even, as was mentioned above.

I’ve heard it floated around here too that crime had already begun to drop when Giuliani stepped in, but it’s pure revisionism to anyone who lived through it, which you didn’t. There might be ways of looking at the statistics to try and support that opinion, but it’s going to seem like nonsense to real New Yorkers.


106 posted on 05/28/2011 11:42:38 AM PDT by OldNewYork
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To: Liz

Here we go again. Rudy “leads poll” according to CNN? Wow! They will keep trying all these RINO libtards until they finally get the message. I am not going to waste any energy this time around. Rudy is a worthless POS.


107 posted on 05/28/2011 11:42:53 AM PDT by TommyDale
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To: NoGrayZone
There you go again. Sounding like a typical, whiny NYC liberal, or is it, libertarian? LOL

>>>>>Listen NON NEW YORKER.

You betchya, bucko! And proud of it too.

I stated the facts about Rudy but would never defend Dinkins, Giuliani or Bloomberg. Can't help it you're a Rudybooster!

>>>>>Calling her a “red herring” is bullsh$t.

I did't call Palin a red herring. I called you injecting her into this argument, a red herring. You sound like you're about 10 years old.

>>>>>Yes, I will defend Rudy when it comes to NYC.....

Right. Most liberals do.

108 posted on 05/28/2011 11:44:22 AM PDT by Reagan Man ("In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.")
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To: 4rcane
"Rudy polled well then lost to Mccain"

Correction: Rudy polled well until he was thoroughly exposed for the liberal he is. McCain captured the nomination by default when the GOP leadership hand picked him after he had already gone broke and showed what a loser he was. That is why many of us are no longer Republicans. Good luck with Rudy Giuliani, Mitt Romney, or any other RINO.

109 posted on 05/28/2011 11:45:53 AM PDT by TommyDale
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To: Reagan Man

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2726450/posts?page=99#99

Liar. That is EXACTLY what you posted.


110 posted on 05/28/2011 11:47:13 AM PDT by NoGrayZone ("Islamophobia: The irrational fear of being beheaded.")
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To: UnwashedPeasant

I have no idea where Rudy stands. All I know is that he is a social lib, which completely kicks him out of my support for POTUS.


111 posted on 05/28/2011 11:49:39 AM PDT by NoGrayZone ("Islamophobia: The irrational fear of being beheaded.")
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To: NoGrayZone
Searching "phase two" didn't return much. Nothing wrong with snotty. Have a great weekend, patriot.

112 posted on 05/28/2011 11:50:56 AM PDT by I see my hands (Embrace misanthropy)
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To: Reagan Man; OldNewYork
"Crime began to decrease under Dinkins."

Please, as ONY asked, link to those stats.

113 posted on 05/28/2011 11:53:46 AM PDT by NoGrayZone ("Islamophobia: The irrational fear of being beheaded.")
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To: OldNewYork
Frankly, I don't care what you think, Paultard. I'm stating the truth. You and others are getting all bent out of shape. Not me.

The facts are what they are. Crime in NYC began to drop under Dinkins. That is not revisionism, its the truth. Rudy had success fighting crime because he continued expanding the "broken windows" policy started under Dinkins. Bloomberg has followed the same course and crime rates continued to fall. But there is no doubt. Dinkins, Rudy and Bloomberg are all liberal authoritarians who have nothing on common with conservatives.

As "to real New Yorkers", good chance they're liberals or libertarians, like you. Exactly why us true OldTime NewYawkers left and moved to more suitable areas of the country. Liberalism is a failure and that makes NYC a failure. NYC, abortion capital of America!

114 posted on 05/28/2011 11:58:29 AM PDT by Reagan Man ("In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.")
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To: I see my hands

Maybe it’s an “undercover” thing. I probably spend WAY too much time on FR (but of course to me, not enough).

It’s been said in many a thread. Now I expect the SSSR to come bursting through my door.....


115 posted on 05/28/2011 11:58:36 AM PDT by NoGrayZone ("Islamophobia: The irrational fear of being beheaded.")
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To: Reagan Man; OldNewYork

Link to your assertions please.


116 posted on 05/28/2011 12:01:13 PM PDT by NoGrayZone ("Islamophobia: The irrational fear of being beheaded.")
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To: NoGrayZone
>>>>>>Liar. That is EXACTLY what you posted.

Calling me a liar and not indicating wtf you're referring to shows just how confused and foolish you are.

You want to debate and defend issues related to Rudy's liberalism, have at it. I enjoy the challenge. So far, however, all you've done is spout off bs nonsense.

117 posted on 05/28/2011 12:04:02 PM PDT by Reagan Man ("In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.")
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To: NoGrayZone

Totally agree. I held my nose for a McCain vote but he was a war hero...and if the worst befell him, Palin would become president.
If a RINO runs in 2012, I’m writing in Palin. Could be my last vote because there may be no USA as we know it in 2016. Might as well go down with a Patrick Henry maneuver: give us liberty or death.


118 posted on 05/28/2011 12:07:40 PM PDT by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast (I stand with Israel!)
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To: Reagan Man
"Calling me a liar and not indicating wtf you're referring to shows just how confused and foolish you are."

Umm, I posted the link to my accusation of you, where you state exactly that.

PUT THE CRACK PIPE DOWN!

119 posted on 05/28/2011 12:08:42 PM PDT by NoGrayZone ("Islamophobia: The irrational fear of being beheaded.")
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To: NoGrayZone

You must be nuts. Do your own research. I’ll keep my powder dry and see what you have to post in the way of facts before posting what I have. So far, you have nothing.

But lets not limit it to Giuliani’s crime fighting record. Lets open it up to Rudy’s entire record as Mayor. Rudy’s always been a liberal and I doubt you can prove otherwise.


120 posted on 05/28/2011 12:09:29 PM PDT by Reagan Man ("In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.")
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To: 668 - Neighbor of the Beast

Amen fellow Conservative. 2012 will determine whether we deserve His grace or not.

I’m certainly praying for His grace!


121 posted on 05/28/2011 12:12:14 PM PDT by NoGrayZone ("Islamophobia: The irrational fear of being beheaded.")
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To: Reagan Man; NoGrayZone

“Frankly, I don’t care what you think, Paultard. I’m stating the truth. You and others are getting all bent out of shape. Not me.”

You’re accusing others of what you yourself are doing, again. And again relying on argument ad hominem, falsely, as it happens. Maybe have a quiet sit and a glass of water for fifteen minutes before responding again.

“The facts are what they are. Crime in NYC began to drop under Dinkins. That is not revisionism, its the truth. Rudy had success fighting crime because he continued expanding the “broken windows” policy started under Dinkins.”

Link to these ‘facts’ please. New Yorkers can’t take what you’re saying seriously about Dinkins, the Obama of mayors. Trends in statistics can be correlative or causative. Decreases in crime statistics can be correlated to apathy in reporting them, as it’s generally perceived that nothing is done anyway, and they can be related to greater trends outside the city. But it’s suspect to claim Dinkins as causative.

“As “to real New Yorkers”, good chance they’re liberals or libertarians, like you. Exactly why us true OldTime NewYawkers left and moved to more suitable areas of the country. Liberalism is a failure and that makes NYC a failure. NYC, abortion capital of America!”

Arguing ad hominem, again, and falsely, again. You just said above that you’re proud to not be a New Yorker, reversing the rationale for your original assertion to be taken seriously as someone who was born and raised here, and kept in touch so closely with people here that you’d come to the opinions you did. So which is it? You’re not a New Yorker, but you are a New Yorker, but you’re proud not to be a New Yorker, but you’re the true New Yorker because you left, and New York and those from it are to be disparaged?


122 posted on 05/28/2011 12:13:17 PM PDT by OldNewYork
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To: Reagan Man
You did not answer my liar accusation, in which I posted. You have lost all credibility.

To me, you are a cockroach that needs to be exposed. Bright light....RUN!!!!

123 posted on 05/28/2011 12:15:45 PM PDT by NoGrayZone ("Islamophobia: The irrational fear of being beheaded.")
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To: NoGrayZone
>>>>>Umm, I posted the link to my accusation of you, where you state exactly that.

Exactly what? You posted a link to one of my replies. That reply included three topics. Your inability to control your emotions, Rudy's liberalism and the fact that you used Palin as a red herring. Which one are you referring to? More importantly, what is the purpose? I didn't mention Palin, you did.

You need to stop sniffing glue.

124 posted on 05/28/2011 12:17:27 PM PDT by Reagan Man ("In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.")
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To: OldNewYork; Reagan Man
"Link to these ‘facts’ please"

I have asked the same.....but have yet to receive no links. I'm sure he's googling his heart out to back him up, but you cannot dispute facts.

You and I have facts on our side, he has nothing but liberal CO "factual newspapers" behind him.

125 posted on 05/28/2011 12:21:42 PM PDT by NoGrayZone ("Islamophobia: The irrational fear of being beheaded.")
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To: OldNewYork
What a convoluted post, Paultard. Sorry, not playing your stupid game. Its incumbent on you to post facts that dispute what I've posted. Btw, facts which I (and others) have posted many times before going back to 2006! Long before you ever joined FR. The truth will set you straight.

No doubt about it. You NYC liberals and libertarians love Rudy. Lets see you defend Rudy the authoritarian, Rudy the abortionist, Rudy the big government liberal, Rudy the gun control fanatic with some facts. Lets see what you have.

126 posted on 05/28/2011 12:26:47 PM PDT by Reagan Man ("In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.")
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To: Reagan Man

To quote you...

“And bringing Sarah Palin into the debate is a red herring.”

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2726450/posts?page=99#99

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2726450/posts?page=96#96


127 posted on 05/28/2011 12:29:37 PM PDT by NoGrayZone ("Islamophobia: The irrational fear of being beheaded.")
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To: NoGrayZone
>>>>>To me, you are a cockroach that needs to be exposed. Bright light....RUN!!!!

LOL There are no cockroaches in my neck of the Colorado woods. NYC has plenty, starting with you. So far, this conservative has exposed you for the liberal you are.

Now, lets see you start defending Rudy the liberal with some facts for a change.

128 posted on 05/28/2011 12:31:39 PM PDT by Reagan Man ("In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.")
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To: NoGrayZone

“You and I have facts on our side, he has nothing but liberal CO “factual newspapers” behind him.”

I mentioned above that I’d heard it floated here what he seems to be on about, that the crime statistics began to drop before Giuliani came in, but it went nowhere, because almost everyone here remembers how it really was. I think they were also refuted in kind as following national or more regional statistical trends, or related to the time between Giuliani’s election and the last part of Dinkins’ mayoralty. Maybe Colorado newspapers picked up the story or something, which wouldn’t have been with the context and realism.


129 posted on 05/28/2011 12:31:58 PM PDT by OldNewYork
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To: Reagan Man; OldNewYork
"Its incumbent on you to post facts that dispute what I've posted"

No, it's incumbent on YOU to post YOUR "supposed" facts. You made the claim for Dinkins (eyeroll), now post your back up.

130 posted on 05/28/2011 12:34:45 PM PDT by NoGrayZone ("Islamophobia: The irrational fear of being beheaded.")
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To: Liz

Did you know that Rudy was Mayor of New York during 9-11? Here we go again.


131 posted on 05/28/2011 12:35:03 PM PDT by TommyDale
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To: NoGrayZone
>>>>>“And bringing Sarah Palin into the debate is a red herring.”

Right! That's what you did. I didn't bring Palin into the debate. You did. OMG, you don't even know what a red herring is when used in debate. Let me help you.

"something that distracts attention from the real issue"

The issue of this thread is Rudy Giuliani. Not Sarah Palin, dummy.

132 posted on 05/28/2011 12:37:35 PM PDT by Reagan Man ("In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.")
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To: OldNewYork

It all had to do with tourism. If NYC was deemed to be dangerous (as it was), tourism would drop.

As FR always states, follow the money.


133 posted on 05/28/2011 12:39:50 PM PDT by NoGrayZone ("Islamophobia: The irrational fear of being beheaded.")
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To: Reagan Man

I mentioned Palin because that is whom I voted for...not mclame.


134 posted on 05/28/2011 12:42:17 PM PDT by NoGrayZone ("Islamophobia: The irrational fear of being beheaded.")
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To: Reagan Man

“What a convoluted post, Paultard. Sorry, not playing your stupid game.”

It’s odd that every single post of yours starts with an ad hominem, no matter how many times it’s brought to your attention, and even that it includes false ones is not corrected. If it was too difficult for you to understand I could try and simplify it for you. Which part did you have trouble with?

“Its incumbent on you to post facts that dispute what I’ve posted.”

No, it’s not. I asked for links to your assertions. They don’t jibe with the experience of living through it. It’s a reasonable request.

“Btw, facts which I (and others) have posted many times before going back to 2006! Long before you ever joined FR. The truth will set you straight.”

More ad hominem. And, likewise - the truth sets everyone straight. Are you always this upset by people not agreeing with you when your downloaded assertions don’t fit with their own life experience? I see you didn’t take my advice about the water and the restful sit.

“No doubt about it. You NYC liberals and libertarians love Rudy. Lets see you defend Rudy the authoritarian, Rudy the abortionist, Rudy the big government liberal, Rudy the gun control fanatic with some facts. Lets see what you have.”

Who’s defending Giuliani? What he did in New York, is what he did. What you were saying about his mayoralty sounds false to New Yorkers. That’s just how it is.


135 posted on 05/28/2011 12:43:02 PM PDT by OldNewYork
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To: NoGrayZone

Again, this thread is about Rudy Giuliani, NOT Sarah Palin.

Lets see you defend Rudy, or stfu already!


136 posted on 05/28/2011 12:45:41 PM PDT by Reagan Man ("In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.")
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To: NoGrayZone; Reagan Man

“It all had to do with tourism. If NYC was deemed to be dangerous (as it was), tourism would drop.

As FR always states, follow the money.”

Reasonable people would see this too, but I haven’t seen much reason from him yet. Maybe he’ll think about it overnight or something.


137 posted on 05/28/2011 12:47:20 PM PDT by OldNewYork
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To: Reagan Man
I stated I voted for Sarah, not mclame. Rudy was on my ballot, but I pulled the lever for Sarah.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2726450/posts?page=96#96

You stated "Wrong. I just read your passionate defense of Rooty-Toot and posted facts to back up my opinion that Giuliani was a liberal when he was mayor and remains a big time liberal today!"

The fact that you call me a name "dummy" and CANNOT back up your assertions for Dinkins "declining crime" says all that needs to be said about you.

138 posted on 05/28/2011 12:54:38 PM PDT by NoGrayZone ("Islamophobia: The irrational fear of being beheaded.")
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To: Liz

Oh Jeez...............here we go again ;-)


139 posted on 05/28/2011 12:55:23 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: OldNewYork
You can use the "ad hominem" anti-debate conjecture all you want. Won't help you. You support Rand Paul for president in 2012. You are a Paultard, through and through. Am I missing something? I think not.

As I posted, the Manhattan Institute is my main source for historic facts pertaining to Rudy Giuliani's record as Mayor of NYC. You know how to use Google? Look it up yourself. I won't do research for lazy libertarians. Period.

>>>>>What you were saying about his mayoralty sounds false to New Yorkers.

I said, crime began to drop under Dinkins. Crime continued to drop under Giulaini and Bloomberg. You took sides with someone who exception to those stated facts. If its so wrong, it should be easy to dispute. Otherwise, you're just pissing in the wind.

140 posted on 05/28/2011 12:58:16 PM PDT by Reagan Man ("In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.")
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To: Liz

” This message is intended for those posters on FR who seem to have missed my prior statements in this regard and insist on advocating for these bastards. I’d rather shut the place down than be involved in any effort to install abortionist/gay rights pushing RINOS like Romney or Giuliani into the White House!! Do NOT push this crap on FR. Take your business elsewhere!! And I don’t care how long you’ve been here!! “

A wona more time!!


141 posted on 05/28/2011 12:59:11 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: OldNewYork

I don’t think he “thinks”. I have no idea what his problem is, but what I do know is he has NO IDEA about NYC and what a toilet Rudy had to clean.

You and I are on the same page....NO POTUS for Rudy; however, we do know what he did with NYC, with everyone against him and he did it.


142 posted on 05/28/2011 12:59:25 PM PDT by NoGrayZone ("Islamophobia: The irrational fear of being beheaded.")
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To: NoGrayZone

Amen!!!


143 posted on 05/28/2011 1:04:58 PM PDT by PLD
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To: stephenjohnbanker; Liz

As I have stated prior, I asked the mods to put a “warning” on to my title. They are trying to choose our primary nom.

It CANNOT be allowed to happen again. My thread was posted AS A WARNING!


144 posted on 05/28/2011 1:08:14 PM PDT by NoGrayZone ("Islamophobia: The irrational fear of being beheaded.")
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To: NoGrayZone

“I am a New Yorker, always have been, born and raised (want out but have NO idea where to go).”

Look into Oklahoma — good people, conservative values, easy to make friends, lots of land and house values are affordable. Prepare for a culture shock, but you’ll like it.


145 posted on 05/28/2011 1:09:23 PM PDT by PastorBooks
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To: Reagan Man

“You can use the “ad hominem” anti-debate conjecture all you want. Won’t help you. You support Rand Paul for president in 2012. You are a Paultard, through and through. Am I missing something? I think not.”

Pointing out ad hominems is not “anti-debate”. Using them is. If being on here a long time is as important to debate as you imply, you’re surely familiar with the search function so that you could see for yourself that reference to Rand Paul in my profile and posts, besides being completely irrelevant to New Yorker’s experience of our mayors, is indeed an ad hominem, as can anyone reading this.

“As I posted, the Manhattan Institute is my main source for historic facts pertaining to Rudy Giuliani’s record as Mayor of NYC. You know how to use Google? Look it up yourself. I won’t do research for lazy libertarians. Period.”

More ad hominems. And a cop out.

“I said, crime began to drop under Dinkins. Crime continued to drop under Giulaini and Bloomberg. You took sides with someone who exception to those stated facts. If its so wrong, it should be easy to dispute. Otherwise, you’re just pissing in the wind.”

It was easy to dispute. If you look back over the last few dozen posts, you’ll see that. But first you might want to take a peaceful nap or something.


146 posted on 05/28/2011 1:10:27 PM PDT by OldNewYork
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To: NoGrayZone

Rudy hosted the Palins at a baseball game and has been quite respectful of her. He’d be a true national hero if he could get in and dilute the moderate Romney vote so she’d have a clear path to the nomination.

I’d be fine with it if she then balanced her ticket with Rudy. After all, it’s not like he’d still be viable to follow in her footsteps in eight years (and we’ve plenty of younger pols coming along for that anyway).


147 posted on 05/28/2011 1:12:18 PM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: NoGrayZone

“I don’t think he “thinks”. I have no idea what his problem is, but what I do know is he has NO IDEA about NYC and what a toilet Rudy had to clean.

You and I are on the same page....NO POTUS for Rudy; however, we do know what he did with NYC, with everyone against him and he did it.”

Yeah, it’s as simple as that.


148 posted on 05/28/2011 1:13:56 PM PDT by OldNewYork
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To: PastorBooks

I’ve been through so much in my little 40 year lifetime span not too much can come as a shock to me.

I’ve been looking towards Montana. I’m not sure why, but Montana seems to be “pulling” me towards it. Perhaps, when the time is right, that is where I am meant to be.

But it’s always Montana that seems to draw me.


149 posted on 05/28/2011 1:14:54 PM PDT by NoGrayZone ("Islamophobia: The irrational fear of being beheaded.")
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To: Reagan Man
"I said, crime began to drop under Dinkins."

We are just asking for your link to prove it.

150 posted on 05/28/2011 1:16:55 PM PDT by NoGrayZone ("Islamophobia: The irrational fear of being beheaded.")
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