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Why Is The Economy So Bad?
The American Dream ^ | May 28 2011

Posted on 05/29/2011 3:58:14 AM PDT by GonzoII

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To: Scotsman will be Free

Only on imported things.

No increase in cost for anything made, grown or drilled in America.


81 posted on 05/29/2011 6:06:30 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (BUY AMERICAN. The job you save will be your son's, or your daughter's)
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To: Rapscallion

It ain’t the taxes that are the big killer. Regulation is a big choke point.


82 posted on 05/29/2011 6:08:35 AM PDT by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: bert

Ah. You seem quite conversant on Chinese trends.

So your motive in this discussion in to advance Chinese imports.

Thought so.


83 posted on 05/29/2011 6:09:08 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (BUY AMERICAN. The job you save will be your son's, or your daughter's)
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To: Yet_Again

Regulations are a business killer. Do tariffs all day long and it will still be cheaper to make crap in china than here because of regulations. All you will accomplish without reducing regulations is make things more expensive which will end up with us sending more of our money to china.


84 posted on 05/29/2011 6:12:21 AM PDT by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: central_va

You make the mistake of assuming my argument is for free trade. It is not. We have trade that is regulated in many aspects.

The point is that those who can sell at a profit will prevail and those who can not sell at a profit will fail. To artificially prevent the failure is not capitalism but some modified socialism.

You seem to approve this socialism when it meets your needs for maintaining a status quo that is no longer possible and ignores the fact that there is a big world.


85 posted on 05/29/2011 6:13:20 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. N.C. D.E. +12 ....( History is a process, not an event ))
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To: bert
The primary flaw in your thinking is the concept of Chinese Slave Labor. The labor is made by those who desire to exit the oppressive poverty of the countryside and improve the quality of their lives.

Hey Cathay Pacific has flight there every day, I encourage you to go live in the Red Chinese economic miracle.


86 posted on 05/29/2011 6:15:17 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Scotsman will be Free

I’ve already said that the regulatory load needs to be lightened. However this will not in any way compensate for the wage differential between the two countries. As far as tariffs resulting in more money going to China this is also incorrect because every dollar of a collected import duty remains within the United States. Will imported products become more expensive? Perhaps.

Business will have 3 choices (1) Accept reduced profit margins for products made in third world communist ratholes, (2) Increase their retail prices and thereby lose the marketing edge they’ve gained over domestically manufactured products through the use of cheap overseas labor, or (3) Return production to US borders.


87 posted on 05/29/2011 6:16:15 AM PDT by Yet_Again
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

It’s amazing the Free Traders have the cojones to infiltrate a FREE REPUBLIC thread which pretty much sums up the economic disaster we are living in. I wish they would all move to China. I wish these economic Judas Iscariots would go count there silver in private.


88 posted on 05/29/2011 6:18:13 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: bert
You seem to approve this socialism when it meets your needs for maintaining a status quo that is no longer possible and ignores the fact that there is a big world.

This really captures in a sentence the difference. I am an American patriot, a nationalist. My loyalities are to America, to her citizens, to the conservation of her wealth, and her future prosperity. I care nothing for Chinese workers, Chinese markets, or for the future of that nation. The free trader is a trans-nationalist, or globalist. He may harbor some feelings for America, but his true loyalty lies with America's currency (and, if it profits him more, another currency). America is merely a tool to exercise the profit motive in such a world view, not a homeland.
89 posted on 05/29/2011 6:19:00 AM PDT by Yet_Again
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
Very simply, the solution to all of this is immediate, across the board import tariffs.

Your "solution" will kill more jobs than it creates.

It sounds simple and easy. It is not. When people sell us stuff from other countries, they buy stuff here. The stuff they buy from us creates jobs here.

We still make more stuff than any other country on earth, it is just that we do it more efficiently with less workers.

There are plenty of studies that show that international trade makes more jobs here than it destroys.

Nothing is permanent. We are in the process of moving from labor intensive manufacturing to information intensive manufacturing. More robots, less drudge labor. Any change makes it hard on those who are forced to change with the technological changes.

We could make it much easier on those impacted by the change by reducing our regulatory burden, or even making the rules easy to follow and transparent.

The Obama administration has done the opposite. People will not invest and create jobs when they do not know what the new regulations will be or how much they will cost.

It is the uncertainty and bumbling incompetence of the current administration, and the nagging doubt that maybe it is malevolence rather than incompetence, that is keeping the economy in the doldrums.

You see lots of retail, relatively low tech stuff made overseas in our stores, such as Wal Mart, because relative low tech countries can compete with us in those areas.

90 posted on 05/29/2011 6:19:18 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: central_va

Keep at it.

We’re winning. Far too slowly, but we are on the right side. Never give up.

America ain’t done yet.


91 posted on 05/29/2011 6:20:23 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (BUY AMERICAN. The job you save will be your son's, or your daughter's)
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To: Yet_Again

Return production to the U.S., and fight over a smaller market that the price increase caused in the first place. Sell fewer goods at artificially inflated prices—a ticket to prosperity. Why can’t folks understand?


92 posted on 05/29/2011 6:20:50 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: GregoryFul
Glad you are so positive - experts differ on that.

I just agree with the analysis presented in the articles I linked in #58. It is now generally acknowledged that the GD was caused by decreases in the money supply.

But maybe you can link some articles by these experts you mentioned who disagree. Tariffs are never mentioned as a cause of the GD in the two articles I linked.

And here is a link with graphs which show the change in GDP and the change in the money supply during the GD.

GDP and Money Supply during the Great Depression

93 posted on 05/29/2011 6:20:50 AM PDT by Will88
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To: bert
You seem to approve this socialism when it meets your needs for maintaining a status quo that is no longer possible and ignores the fact that there is a big world.

Komrade bert, It seems to me you are the socialist as Karl Marx thought free trade was a quick way to destabilize the middle class.

94 posted on 05/29/2011 6:21:15 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Will88
I don't think anyone mentioned that Smoot-Hawley caused the GD. That's just the tangent that people take when they cannot disprove that it made things worse.
95 posted on 05/29/2011 6:23:19 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: marktwain
It sounds simple and easy. It is not. When people sell us stuff from other countries, they buy stuff here. The stuff they buy from us creates jobs here.

Except they don't.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/12/business/economy/12econ.html
??

There are plenty of studies that show that international trade makes more jobs here than it destroys.

Studies come, studies go, but the economic facts in the OP are real.

The Obama administration has done the opposite.

Obama has a lot of faults, but the wage-disparity based drive to outsource everything has been going on for much longer than his 3 years in office.
96 posted on 05/29/2011 6:23:51 AM PDT by Yet_Again
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

-——So your motive in this discussion in to advance Chinese imports.——

No, I merely observe rather than bury my head in the sand and not see the world as it is.

If I have a trade related motive, it is to advance American exports because it helps my personal business.

As an aside, I see the movement of plants abroad first hand close up. Last year I visited a closed cotton yarn mill in North Carolina. The equipment automatically turned the baled raw cotton into yarn for knitting plants. It was of Japanese origin and state of the art completely automated.

The plant was bought by a Bangladeshi company. This means grief for the Bangladeshi workers who lose their jobs in some ancient mill to younger better skilled workers capable of operating the technical processes of the new plant. America is not the only country subject to change in the jobs structure. The change is global


97 posted on 05/29/2011 6:24:02 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. N.C. D.E. +12 ....( History is a process, not an event ))
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To: 1rudeboy
Return production to the U.S., and fight over a smaller market that the price increase caused in the first place. Sell fewer goods at artificially inflated prices—a ticket to prosperity. Why can’t folks understand?

Selling out your county for profit is something that should be done in private, in a humble way. Go away Judas.

Start a Free Trade thread, I won't even open the link.

98 posted on 05/29/2011 6:25:25 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va

u mad?


99 posted on 05/29/2011 6:26:54 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: bert

All our “partners” have policies which unapologetically help their nation, to adapt, acquire and absorb American technologies and jobs.

Those sorts of policies are working for them.

We’re asleep.


100 posted on 05/29/2011 6:27:35 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (BUY AMERICAN. The job you save will be your son's, or your daughter's)
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