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Memorial Day farewell to Jefferson Davis
Canda Free Press ^ | May 29, 2011 | Calvin E. Johnson, Jr.

Posted on 05/29/2011 2:46:36 PM PDT by BigReb555

Uncle Bob Brown, a former servant of the Davis family and a passenger on the train, saw the many flowers that the children had laid on the side of the railroad tracks. Brown was so moved by this beautiful gesture that he wept uncontrollably.

(Excerpt) Read more at canadafreepress.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: confederate; dixie; jeffersondavis; southernpresident
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Monday May 30th is Memorial Day!

Jefferson Davis, born June 3, 1808, served the United States as a soldier, statesmen and Secretary of War. He was also the first and only President of the Confederacy.

On Sunday, May 28, 1893, a few days before "Memorial Day" in New Orleans, a story began that overshadowed all other news events.

Jefferson Davis died in 1889 and was buried at Metairie Cemetery in New Orleans. Four years later, May 27, 1893, his body was removed and taken to Confederate Memorial Hall to lay in state in preparation for the 1,200 mile trip to Richmond for final interment.

At 4:30PM, May 28th, a Memorial service was held for Mr. Davis and a moving address was delivered by Louisiana's Governor Murphy J. Foster as thousands listened. A reverent silence fell among the people as the casket was given to the commitment of veterans from Virginia.

The procession then formed for a slow march to the railroad station on Canal Street. The caisson drawn by four coal black horses came to a halt by the glassed in observation car.

Train No. 69, with Engineer Frank Coffin, waited patiently as the casket was taken to the platform and passed through an open observation car to a catafalque.

Train engine No. 69, of the Louisville and Nashville Railroad slowly pulled out of New Orleans Station at 7:50PM. L and N Railroad later became CSX Railroad. After a brief stop at Bay Saint Louis, and a slow-down at Pass Christian, where hundreds of people lined the tracks, the Jefferson Davis Funeral Train stopped at Gulfport, Mississippi, near Beauvoir which was the last home of Jefferson Davis. It was here that Davis wrote his book, "The Rise and Fall of the Confederate Government."

Uncle Bob Brown, a former servant of the Davis family and a passenger on the train, saw the many flowers that the children had laid on the side of the railroad tracks. Brown was so moved by this beautiful gesture that he wept uncontrollably.

In Mobile, Alabama, the train was met by a thousand mourners and the Alabama Artillery fired a 21-gun salute. Locomotive No. 69 was retired and Locomotive No. 25 was coupled to the train. The new train's Engineer was C.C. Devinney and Warren Robinson was its fireman.

Church bells rang in Montgomery, Alabama when the train pulled into the city at 6:00AM on May 29th. A severe rainstorm delayed the funeral procession to about 8:30AM when a caisson carried the body of Davis to Alabama's state capitol. A procession carried the casket through the portico where Jefferson Davis, in 1861, had taken the oath of office as President of the Confederate States of America.

The casket was placed in front of the bench of the Alabama Supreme Court. Above the right exit was a banner with the word "Monterrey" and above the left exit was a banner with the words “Buena Vista." During the War with Mexico Jefferson Davis was a hero at Monterrey and wounded at Buena Vista.

All businesses and schools closed, and church bells tolled during the procession to and from the capitol. In final tribute, thousands of people of Montgomery, including many ex-soldiers and school children filed by the casket.

At 12:20PM the funeral train departed over the Western Railway of Alabama and Atlanta and West Point Railroad for Atlanta. At West Point, Georgia the train stopped under a beautiful arch of flowers to pick up Georgia's Governor William J. Northen and staff.

At 4:30PM the funeral train pulled into Union Station in Atlanta, Georgia. It is estimated that 20,000 people lined the streets as the funeral procession made their way to the state capitol. Atlanta’s Gate City Guard, which had served as Company F, 1st Georgia (Ramsay’s) during the War Between the States, stood guard over the president.

At 7:00PM the train went north on the Richmond and Danville Railroad, which later became Southern Railway and, today, Norfolk Southern Railroad. The train traveled through Lula, Georgia, Greenville, South Carolina and stopped at the North Carolina capitol at Raleigh.

A brief stop was made in Danville, Virginia where a crowd of people gathered around the train and sang, "Nearer My God To Thee" as city church bells tolled.

Finally, the train reached Richmond, Virginia on Wednesday, May 31, 1893, at 3:00AM. It was Memorial Day. Mrs. Davis met the train and her husband's casket was taken to the Virginia State House.

At 3:00PM, May 31st, the funeral procession started for Hollywood Cemetery.

With Mrs. Jefferson Davis were her daughters, Winnie and Margaret. Six state governors acted as pallbearers. It was estimated that 75,000 people attended this final salute to President Davis. The ceremony concluded with a 21-gun salute and "Taps.

1 posted on 05/29/2011 2:46:39 PM PDT by BigReb555
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To: BigReb555

Just another Democrat who was removed from office by the American People during his first term in office.


2 posted on 05/29/2011 2:52:02 PM PDT by trumandogz
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To: BigReb555

The South merely wanted to be the author of its own future by enacting laws and policies that protected their cultural history and fostered good will toward all. The Federal Government wanted to tamp out individuality, local custom, and compassion in favor of oppression and socialism. Much like today.


3 posted on 05/29/2011 3:05:09 PM PDT by Beowulf9
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To: trumandogz

There is always one in every crowd.


4 posted on 05/29/2011 3:20:23 PM PDT by Sea Parrot (Being an autodidact, I happily escaped the bureaucratization of intellect)
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To: BigReb555
What will we do for Sick Willie?

Stained blue dresses at half mast?

5 posted on 05/29/2011 3:34:03 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist (It is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; ~Vattel's Law of Nations)
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To: BigReb555

The civil war had nothing to do with slavery!


6 posted on 05/29/2011 3:51:10 PM PDT by Cheetahcat ( November 4 2008 ,A date which will live in Infamy.)
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To: Beowulf9

“protected their cultural history and fostered good will toward all”

Unless of course, “all” includes those who didn’t want to be legal property,,


7 posted on 05/29/2011 4:03:32 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: Cheetahcat

The southern state declarations of independence don’t agree with you.


8 posted on 05/29/2011 4:04:49 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: Beowulf9

Sounds real nice. A Southern Utopia. Except for the slave-owning thing though, right?


9 posted on 05/29/2011 4:08:14 PM PDT by jmacusa (Political correctness is cultural Marxism. I'm not a Marxist.)
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To: DesertRhino

Kindly read the Texas Declaration of Causes. Slavery was just one of the issues. It really doesnt matter, if someone tried to confiscate 50,000 dollars of my property, I wouldn’t be happy either.

It was about economics.


10 posted on 05/29/2011 4:20:40 PM PDT by TexConfederate1861 (Surrender means that the history of this heroic struggle will be written by the enemy.)
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To: DesertRhino

Kindly read the Texas Declaration of Causes. Slavery was just one of the issues. It really doesnt matter, if someone tried to confiscate 50,000 dollars of my property, I wouldn’t be happy either.

It was about economics.


11 posted on 05/29/2011 4:20:44 PM PDT by TexConfederate1861 (Surrender means that the history of this heroic struggle will be written by the enemy.)
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To: DesertRhino

Kindly read the Texas Declaration of Causes. Slavery was just one of the issues. It really doesnt matter, if someone tried to confiscate 50,000 dollars of my property, I wouldn’t be happy either.

It was about economics.


12 posted on 05/29/2011 4:21:02 PM PDT by TexConfederate1861 (Surrender means that the history of this heroic struggle will be written by the enemy.)
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To: DesertRhino
Don't remind them, they hate that:

Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

By C. G. Memminger

The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States, fully justified this State in then withdrawing from the Federal Union; but in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other slaveholding States, she forbore at that time to exercise this right. Since that time, these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue.

And now the State of South Carolina having resumed her separate and equal place among nations, deems it due to herself, to the remaining United States of America, and to the nations of the world, that she should declare the immediate causes which have led to this act.

In the year 1765, that portion of the British Empire embracing Great Britain, undertook to make laws for the government of that portion composed of the thirteen American Colonies. A struggle for the right of self-government ensued, which resulted, on the 4th of July, 1776, in a Declaration, by the Colonies, "that they are, and of right ought to be, FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES; and that, as free and independent States, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent States may of right do."

They further solemnly declared that whenever any "form of government becomes destructive of the ends for which it was established, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute a new government." Deeming the Government of Great Britain to have become destructive of these ends, they declared that the Colonies "are absolved from all allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain is, and ought to be, totally dissolved."

In pursuance of this Declaration of Independence, each of the thirteen States proceeded to exercise its separate sovereignty; adopted for itself a Constitution, and appointed officers for the administration of government in all its departments-- Legislative, Executive and Judicial. For purposes of defense, they united their arms and their counsels; and, in 1778, they entered into a League known as the Articles of Confederation, whereby they agreed to entrust the administration of their external relations to a common agent, known as the Congress of the United States, expressly declaring, in the first Article "that each State retains its sovereignty, freedom and independence, and every power, jurisdiction and right which is not, by this Confederation, expressly delegated to the United States in Congress assembled."

Under this Confederation the war of the Revolution was carried on, and on the 3rd of September, 1783, the contest ended, and a definite Treaty was signed by Great Britain, in which she acknowledged the independence of the Colonies in the following terms: "ARTICLE 1-- His Britannic Majesty acknowledges the said United States, viz: New Hampshire, Massachusetts Bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia, to be FREE, SOVEREIGN AND INDEPENDENT STATES; that he treats with them as such; and for himself, his heirs and successors, relinquishes all claims to the government, propriety and territorial rights of the same and every part thereof."

Thus were established the two great principles asserted by the Colonies, namely: the right of a State to govern itself; and the right of a people to abolish a Government when it becomes destructive of the ends for which it was instituted. And concurrent with the establishment of these principles, was the fact, that each Colony became and was recognized by the mother Country a FREE, SOVEREIGN AND INDEPENDENT STATE.

In 1787, Deputies were appointed by the States to revise the Articles of Confederation, and on 17th September, 1787, these Deputies recommended for the adoption of the States, the Articles of Union, known as the Constitution of the United States.

The parties to whom this Constitution was submitted, were the several sovereign States; they were to agree or disagree, and when nine of them agreed the compact was to take effect among those concurring; and the General Government, as the common agent, was then invested with their authority.

If only nine of the thirteen States had concurred, the other four would have remained as they then were-- separate, sovereign States, independent of any of the provisions of the Constitution. In fact, two of the States did not accede to the Constitution until long after it had gone into operation among the other eleven; and during that interval, they each exercised the functions of an independent nation.

By this Constitution, certain duties were imposed upon the several States, and the exercise of certain of their powers was restrained, which necessarily implied their continued existence as sovereign States. But to remove all doubt, an amendment was added, which declared that the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States, respectively, or to the people. On the 23d May , 1788, South Carolina, by a Convention of her People, passed an Ordinance assenting to this Constitution, and afterwards altered her own Constitution, to conform herself to the obligations she had undertaken.

Thus was established, by compact between the States, a Government with definite objects and powers, limited to the express words of the grant. This limitation left the whole remaining mass of power subject to the clause reserving it to the States or to the people, and rendered unnecessary any specification of reserved rights.

We hold that the Government thus established is subject to the two great principles asserted in the Declaration of Independence; and we hold further, that the mode of its formation subjects it to a third fundamental principle, namely: the law of compact. We maintain that in every compact between two or more parties, the obligation is mutual; that the failure of one of the contracting parties to perform a material part of the agreement, entirely releases the obligation of the other; and that where no arbiter is provided, each party is remitted to his own judgment to determine the fact of failure, with all its consequences.

In the present case, that fact is established with certainty. We assert that fourteen of the States have deliberately refused, for years past, to fulfill their constitutional obligations, and we refer to their own Statutes for the proof.

The Constitution of the United States, in its fourth Article, provides as follows: "No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up, on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due."

This stipulation was so material to the compact, that without it that compact would not have been made. The greater number of the contracting parties held slaves, and they had previously evinced their estimate of the value of such a stipulation by making it a condition in the Ordinance for the government of the territory ceded by Virginia, which now composes the States north of the Ohio River.

The same article of the Constitution stipulates also for rendition by the several States of fugitives from justice from the other States.

The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them. In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Constitution. The State of New Jersey, at an early day, passed a law in conformity with her constitutional obligation; but the current of anti-slavery feeling has led her more recently to enact laws which render inoperative the remedies provided by her own law and by the laws of Congress. In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals; and the States of Ohio and Iowa have refused to surrender to justice fugitives charged with murder, and with inciting servile insurrection in the State of Virginia. Thus the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation.

The ends for which the Constitution was framed are declared by itself to be "to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity."

These ends it endeavored to accomplish by a Federal Government, in which each State was recognized as an equal, and had separate control over its own institutions. The right of property in slaves was recognized by giving to free persons distinct political rights, by giving them the right to represent, and burthening them with direct taxes for three-fifths of their slaves; by authorizing the importation of slaves for twenty years; and by stipulating for the rendition of fugitives from labor.

We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.

For twenty-five years this agitation has been steadily increasing, until it has now secured to its aid the power of the common Government. Observing the forms of the Constitution, a sectional party has found within that Article establishing the Executive Department, the means of subverting the Constitution itself. A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free," and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.

This sectional combination for the submersion of the Constitution, has been aided in some of the States by elevating to citizenship, persons who, by the supreme law of the land, are incapable of becoming citizens; and their votes have been used to inaugurate a new policy, hostile to the South, and destructive of its beliefs and safety.

On the 4th day of March next, this party will take possession of the Government. It has announced that the South shall be excluded from the common territory, that the judicial tribunals shall be made sectional, and that a war must be waged against slavery until it shall cease throughout the United States.

The guaranties of the Constitution will then no longer exist; the equal rights of the States will be lost. The slaveholding States will no longer have the power of self-government, or self-protection, and the Federal Government will have become their enemy.

Sectional interest and animosity will deepen the irritation, and all hope of remedy is rendered vain, by the fact that public opinion at the North has invested a great political error with the sanction of more erroneous religious belief.

We, therefore, the People of South Carolina, by our delegates in Convention assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, have solemnly declared that the Union heretofore existing between this State and the other States of North America, is dissolved, and that the State of South Carolina has resumed her position among the nations of the world, as a separate and independent State; with full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent States may of right do.

Adopted December 24, 1860
(added emphasis is mine)

People can say all they want about it "not being about slavery," but the seceding states mentioned nothing else (yes I know they mentioned states rights, but they only "right" they seemed concerned with was slavery).

13 posted on 05/29/2011 4:23:51 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: BigReb555
Thanks for posting this. The naysayers would do well to read Davis's Rise and Fall.

FTR, I have never lived south of Long Island, New York. I grew up idolizing Lincoln and memorizing the Gettysburg Address. It's just that I've learned the everything I learned in high school wasn't everything there is to know, especially about that terrible time in our nation's history.

ML/NJ

14 posted on 05/29/2011 4:32:10 PM PDT by ml/nj
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To: wagglebee

Well you can pontificate and feel all superior if you like..
but states rights died at Appomattox Court House.


15 posted on 05/29/2011 4:33:33 PM PDT by Mmogamer (I refudiate the lamestream media, leftists and their prevaricutions.)
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To: Mmogamer
I'm not denouncing states right or trying to feel superior in any way, I'm simply objecting to the idea that the Confederacy wasn't about preserving slavery.
16 posted on 05/29/2011 4:37:03 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: trumandogz

Let it be. Vitriol not wanted here.


17 posted on 05/29/2011 4:56:42 PM PDT by famousdayandyear
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To: BigReb555

I stopped and toured his last home in Mississippi, a few years ago, all the pictures taken during the movement of his body are wonderful.


18 posted on 05/29/2011 4:58:20 PM PDT by org.whodat
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To: DesertRhino

“The southern state declarations of independence don’t agree with you”

Huh?? Since when was that the reason? I got news ,The Civil war would have happened without slavery!


19 posted on 05/29/2011 5:08:59 PM PDT by Cheetahcat ( November 4 2008 ,A date which will live in Infamy.)
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To: TexConfederate1861

If the 50 thousand dollars of property was a string of forced captive prostitutes, which you bought to stock your bordello, then I couldn’t care less if you were losing that money.


20 posted on 05/29/2011 5:24:51 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: Mmogamer

No, states rights didn’t die at Appomattox courthouse. They died when some people decided that states rights also included the right to own slaves. Had they been a moral people, and not insisted on their way, we might still have states rights.


21 posted on 05/29/2011 5:28:21 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: famousdayandyear

Not vitriol, but rather historical fact.


22 posted on 05/29/2011 6:22:12 PM PDT by trumandogz
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To: DesertRhino

That’s an absurd statement.


23 posted on 05/29/2011 6:28:04 PM PDT by Mmogamer (I refudiate the lamestream media, leftists and their prevaricutions.)
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To: DesertRhino
Amen and Amen. The type of slavery condoned by the slave-holding states had nothing to do with the Biblical laws and directives concerning slavery. The Bible treated the slave as a human, with rights, and stated that he/she must be freed after seven years.

I believe that the deaths of the Civil War and our lost freedoms are direct consequences of the SIN of Southern slavery. It does not matter what the real political reasons were for the secession or war, God used it to bring justice and retribution on the United States.

24 posted on 05/29/2011 6:29:55 PM PDT by wbarmy (I chose to be a sheepdog once I saw what happens to the sheep.)
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To: wbarmy

“The Bible treated the slave as a human, with rights, and stated that he/she must be freed after seven years.”

I believe that was only for Israelite slaves, was it not? On not-Isrealite slaves, I don’t believe God placed a restriction.


25 posted on 05/29/2011 6:59:31 PM PDT by SharpRightTurn (White, black, and red all over--America's affirmative action, metrosexual president.)
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To: BigReb555

Good report on Pres. Davis.

Thanks.


26 posted on 05/29/2011 7:00:32 PM PDT by SharpRightTurn (White, black, and red all over--America's affirmative action, metrosexual president.)
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To: Beowulf9

Except the south wanted to prevent US states from banning slavery within their own borders. Then they objected to the United States banning slavery in US territories. Further they objected to the United States electing their chosen President.

Run on home and play with your toy soldiers little reb.


27 posted on 05/29/2011 7:06:37 PM PDT by donmeaker ("To every simple question, there is a neat, simple answer, that is dead wrong." Mark Twain)
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To: Cheetahcat

The rebellion had everything to do with slavery. The rebellion was the southern plutocrats action to preserve, protect, and extend slavery. That these were illegal acts, meant that the rebellion had to be put down. And it was.


28 posted on 05/29/2011 7:08:33 PM PDT by donmeaker ("To every simple question, there is a neat, simple answer, that is dead wrong." Mark Twain)
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To: donmeaker

“The rebellion had everything to do with slavery. The rebellion was the southern plutocrats action to preserve, protect, and extend slavery. That these were illegal acts, meant that the rebellion had to be put down. And it was.”

No,There were issues going back to the war of independence,Plus States Rights and unfair Taxation to name a couple.


29 posted on 05/29/2011 7:32:16 PM PDT by Cheetahcat ( November 4 2008 ,A date which will live in Infamy.)
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To: trumandogz

I thought you limited yourself to making pro-fag comments on the homo threads. You’re just trying to pick a fight on this one


30 posted on 05/29/2011 7:56:33 PM PDT by ohioman
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To: Beowulf9

Yes, I am sure that is how the millions of slaves felt about it.


31 posted on 05/29/2011 8:33:51 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (When the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn (Pr.29:2))
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To: TexConfederate1861

Slavery was the chief reason the South rejected the election of Lincoln, who was elected on the platform of restricting slavery.


32 posted on 05/29/2011 8:35:39 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (When the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn (Pr.29:2))
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To: Cheetahcat
The South would have seceded because Lincoln was elected-without slavery-why?

They controlled the Senate and could block anything they didn't like.

Due to slavery,(3/5 rule) they were overrepresented in the House.

33 posted on 05/29/2011 8:39:38 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (When the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn (Pr.29:2))
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To: DesertRhino

Amen! No one who enslaves another has a right to talk about his own freedom’s being abused.


34 posted on 05/29/2011 8:40:42 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (When the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn (Pr.29:2))
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To: SharpRightTurn
You couldn't make Isrealites slaves, they could become bondservants and after 7 years had to be released.

Non-Jews could be held in slavery, but there were restrictions on it.

For example, an escaped slave could not be returned to his master.

35 posted on 05/29/2011 8:43:27 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (When the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn (Pr.29:2))
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To: wagglebee

I’m sure that if the south won the slaves would have been repatriated back to their homeland as soon as modern technology made their services unecessary.


36 posted on 05/29/2011 8:48:56 PM PDT by Rome2000 (OBAMA IS A COMMUNIST CRYPTO-MUSLIM)
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To: wagglebee

About preserving the rights of the states to be free of UNJUST subjagations by the clowns in DC
Slavery wax none of the norths goddamed business and was a whole lot less evil than the baby killing that the clowns in DC have enshrined as the law of the land.
How many black babies have been aborted?
Kind of makes slavery pale in comparison


37 posted on 05/29/2011 8:54:47 PM PDT by Rome2000 (OBAMA IS A COMMUNIST CRYPTO-MUSLIM)
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To: DesertRhino

“They died when some people decided that states rights also included the right to own slaves.”

Are you sure you want to go with that? That list includes Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, among others. The Kentucky and Virginia Resolves penned by Jefferson and Madison in 1798 make the case rather explicitly.


38 posted on 05/29/2011 10:34:29 PM PDT by Pelham (Islam, mortal enemy of the free world)
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To: donmeaker

I’m impressed with the amount of error you manage to pack into one brief post.


39 posted on 05/29/2011 10:40:13 PM PDT by Pelham (Islam, mortal enemy of the free world)
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To: fortheDeclaration

“Due to slavery,(3/5 rule) they were overrepresented in the House”

You have it backwards. The 3/5 Compromise was proposed by Wilson of Pennsylvania and Sherman of Connecticut. The 3/5 rule was designed to reduce representation from slave holding states.

Without it, slaves would count as full persons for the purpose of apportioning House members, and that would have increased the number of Representatives from the South.


40 posted on 05/29/2011 10:50:42 PM PDT by Pelham (Islam, mortal enemy of the free world)
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To: wbarmy

“I believe that the deaths of the Civil War and our lost freedoms are direct consequences of the SIN of Southern slavery.”

Interesting. I guess the slavery that had been practiced in New York, Rhode Island, and Delaware left the North unblemished.

And of more interest, many fortunes in New England have their roots in the slave trade. The South owned far more slaves, but the North dominated the business of bringing the poor kidnapped wretches over in slave ships. But I guess that doesn’t count in your ‘SIN’ calculus either.


41 posted on 05/29/2011 11:03:53 PM PDT by Pelham (Islam, mortal enemy of the free world)
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To: Rome2000

“I’m sure that if the south won the slaves would have been repatriated back to their homeland as soon as modern technology made their services unecessary.”

Actually that sounds more like Lincoln’s plan.

“Lincoln’s Secretary of State, William Seward, had his eye on the Caribbean basin, which he, Lincoln, and other cabinet members thought was the ideal place to colonize emancipated slaves. Congress set aside $600,000 for this, and during the Civil War the U.S. also was exploring likely spots in Mexico, British Honduras, Guatemala, Honduras, and Costa Rica — not always with the permission of the national governments. Yet the second colonization movement was as much a failure as the first had been. A projected African-American colony at Chiriqui on the Isthmus of Panama fell through. In 1863 some 450 American blacks were settled at Isle a Vache in Haiti, but it was a debacle and starvation and smallpox wiped them out.”

http://www.slavenorth.com/colonize.htm

http://www.etymonline.com/cw/lincoln.htm


42 posted on 05/29/2011 11:14:16 PM PDT by Pelham (Islam, mortal enemy of the free world)
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To: Pelham
I don't have anything backwards.

It was purposed as a compromise measure because the South wanted the slaves counted as individuals for purposes of representation.

The South was still overrepresented by the 3/5 of those who were slaves, since none of them had a vote.

The slaves should have been counted as zero for the purpose of representation.

43 posted on 05/30/2011 3:39:31 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (When the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn (Pr.29:2))
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To: ohioman

Not trying to pick a fight as it is indisputable that Davis was a Democratic President who was rejected by the American People during his first term.


44 posted on 05/30/2011 4:11:25 AM PDT by trumandogz
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To: fortheDeclaration; wbarmy

“You couldn’t make Isrealites slaves, they could become bondservants and after 7 years had to be released.
Non-Jews could be held in slavery, but there were restrictions on it.”

I went back to look at the passages this morning to refresh my memory.

You are right that Israelis held by other Isrealis were not considered slaves, but indentured servants. While Ex. 21:1-6 and Deut. 15:12-18 limited the period of indentured servanthood for Isrealites to six years, Lev. 39-46 provided only that the Isrealite indentured servant must be released in the Jubilee year.

Baruch A. Levine, in his commentary on Leviticus for the Jewish Publication Society, wrote this concerning Lev. 25:40: “This provision differs from the laws of Exodus 21:1-6 and Deuteronomy 15:12-18, both of which set the limit of service at six years. According to our legislation [Leviticus], indenture may last as long as fifty years. If contrasted with actual slavery, or with serfdom, which continue through the generations, our law is relatively lenient; but compared with the other laws of the Torah, it is most severe and allows for almost lifetime indenture.”

Lev. 25:44-46 provided as follows: “Such male and female slaves as you may have - it is from the nations round you that you may acquire male and female slaves. You may also buy them from among the children of aliens resident among you, or from their families that are among you, whom they begot in your land. These shall become your property: you may keep them as a possession for your children after you, for them to inherit as property for all time. Such you may treat as slaves.”


45 posted on 05/30/2011 6:19:58 AM PDT by SharpRightTurn (White, black, and red all over--America's affirmative action, metrosexual president.)
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To: DesertRhino

Hey, I guess George Washington, Mason et al Virginians are just slave owning evil white guys. Drop the ‘h’ from your moniker.


46 posted on 05/30/2011 6:29:14 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: trumandogz
Just another Democrat who was removed from office by the American People during his first term in office.

A temporary set back. Appomattox resolved nothing. Secession is not unconstitutional, wasn't then and still isn't now. Why wasn't the honorable Mr. Davis granted a trial for treason post-bellum, like has asked for over and over?

"The withdrawal of a State from a league has no revolutionary or insurrectionary characteristic. The government of the State remains unchanged as to all internal affairs. It is only its external or confederate relations that are altered. To term this action of a Sovereign a 'rebellion' is a gross abuse of language."

                 -- Jefferson Davis, First(but probably not last) President of the CSA.

47 posted on 05/30/2011 6:37:14 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: trumandogz

This was about war and not elections. Memorial Day is about respecting all Americans who served and who have passed on - North and South. Most folks on FR understand that fact.


48 posted on 05/30/2011 7:14:04 AM PDT by ohioman
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To: fortheDeclaration

“I don’t have anything backward”

Oh, I see, Then the accounts of the debate over the 3/5 Compromise are wrong, whereas you are right. I get it.


49 posted on 05/30/2011 7:16:08 AM PDT by Pelham (Islam, mortal enemy of the free world)
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To: fortheDeclaration
"First we will address the capitation (counting) of slaves in the Constitution. On June 11, Roger Sherman suggested that representation be based on a count of all free men. The South wanted their slaves counted as whole persons, but that would never happen. James Wilson wanted to get the issue out of the way quickly, and asked the Convention to adopt the same standard as that in the Articles: slaves would count as three-fifths persons. "

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_ccon.html

50 posted on 05/30/2011 7:47:48 AM PDT by Pelham (Islam, mortal enemy of the free world)
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