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Rescue Policy Changed After Alameda Drowning (Firemen watch man drown)
NBC Bay Area ^ | June 1, 2011 | R.J. Middleton

Posted on 06/01/2011 5:55:51 PM PDT by wac3rd

When a fully clothed, apparently suicidal man walked into the San Francisco Bay from Shoreline Drive, in Alamdea County, all the would-be rescuers could do was watch. For about an hour.

Why their boots stayed dry is a matter of debate Wednesday, the day after 57-year-old Raymond Zack was pronounced dead at an Alameda County hospital.

The water's depth and temperature may have played a role. As did budget cuts.

The Alameda Fire Department's water rescue program was discontinued in 2009 because of budget cuts.

"(The) Alameda Fire Department does not currently have, and is not certified, in land-based water rescues. The city of Alameda primarily relies on the United States Coast Guard for these types of events," a police spokesperson said.

But the Coast Guard couldn't operate in water that shallow, according to their own statement. And the water was too deep for police and fire personnel.

At a hearing Tuesday evening, the policy that prevented trained people from intervening and rescuing people in distress was changed.

One man told the board during the meeting, "It just strikes me as unbelievably callous that nobody there with any sort of training couldn't strip off their gear, go in the water, and help this person."

Zack's body was recovered by an off-duty nurse who swam out 50 yards to get him.

(Excerpt) Read more at nbcbayarea.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: alameda; depravedindifference; government; lawsuits; lawyers; publicsector; rescuers
The State-controlled media blame it on budget cuts, saying the water rescue team was disbanded in 2009...but, yesirrreee Bob! The City has changed its policy because of the tragedy.

Your government at work...firemen being paid SIX FIGURES for LIFE with CPI/COLA increases, with LIFETIME HEALTH PLANS...stand on the beach while someone drowns, 50 yards away.

1 posted on 06/01/2011 5:55:57 PM PDT by wac3rd
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To: wac3rd

sick freaks


2 posted on 06/01/2011 5:56:53 PM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: wac3rd

And they get to retire at 50. Sickening.


3 posted on 06/01/2011 5:57:28 PM PDT by Politicalmom ("If you mess with Israel, you mess with the U.S." -Herman Cain)
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To: wac3rd

Clearly, this calls for a federal program. A trillion dollars should fix it.


4 posted on 06/01/2011 5:59:04 PM PDT by madprof98 ("moritur et ridet" - salvianus)
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To: wac3rd

The SanFranSickos needed something titillating to pump them up for their carnal carnival that evening. What better than to watch, with glee, a human being die before their very eyes.


5 posted on 06/01/2011 6:00:33 PM PDT by Thumper1960 (A modern so-called "Conservative" is a shadow of a wisp of a vertebrate human being.)
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To: wac3rd

This is pretty heartless. I am a vol ff we would have tried something. Fast water and cold water rescues present challenges but it sounds like this victim was not in either circumstance.


6 posted on 06/01/2011 6:01:12 PM PDT by UB355 (Slower traffic keep right)
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To: wac3rd

Unionized “Not My Job” Losers !!


7 posted on 06/01/2011 6:02:33 PM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: wac3rd

Sack everyone at the scene and their Chief as well.

This is disgraceful.


8 posted on 06/01/2011 6:07:57 PM PDT by dinodino
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To: wac3rd

This is so foul it is beyond words.

I wonder if God is “certified” to forgive such evil?

And it is evil - nothing less.


9 posted on 06/01/2011 6:11:50 PM PDT by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on its own.)
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To: wac3rd

You can walk out almost 100 yards almost before it gets waist deep to fish for shells. They could have driven a firetruck out 100 yards to get him. There are parts of the bottom that are paved from roads leading out into the bay along there in the 1920s which were abandoned coz they sank. There have never been any lifeguards nor lifeguard tower chairs there since 1965 when I lived there near the beach. This guy had to walk a long way in a mucky bottom to drown. He probably had to sit down to drown.


10 posted on 06/01/2011 6:20:14 PM PDT by bunkerhill7
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To: bunkerhill7

I live(d) in Oakland and know exactly what you are talking about...it’s a giant sand/mud bar...


11 posted on 06/01/2011 6:22:39 PM PDT by wac3rd (Somewhere in Hell, Ted Kennedy snickers....)
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To: wac3rd

Ultimate Beauracracy at work.
“Won’t someone do something.. I can’t because my hands are tied by city hall!”

Just save the guy and worry about it later idiots!


12 posted on 06/01/2011 6:23:55 PM PDT by Darksheare (You will never defeat Bok Choy!)
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To: bunkerhill7
They could have driven a firetruck out 100 yards to get him

DUMBASS POST OF THE YEAR

13 posted on 06/01/2011 6:24:50 PM PDT by DainBramage
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To: UB355

I am not a vol FF or anything -

but I would be damned if i let a guy drown 150 feet from shore, “Because I was not trained.”

WTFO?


14 posted on 06/01/2011 6:27:37 PM PDT by patton (I am sure that I have done dumber things in my life, but at the moment, I am unable to recall them.)
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To: DainBramage

Please expound.

There are lots of places, where one can drive 100 feet off shore.

Dunno if this is one.


15 posted on 06/01/2011 6:30:06 PM PDT by patton (I am sure that I have done dumber things in my life, but at the moment, I am unable to recall them.)
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To: wac3rd

Foreshadowing Obamacare.


16 posted on 06/01/2011 6:31:28 PM PDT by Gene Eric (*** Jesus ***)
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To: wac3rd

This is a sterling example on why American leftists will never go door-to-door and disarm Americans.

They’re bloody cowards. That includes Marxist, gutless cops.

If these San Fran leftists can’t bear to get their tootsies wet, imagine them trying to round up armed Americans.

Good grief! The man’s dead body was pulled in by a nurse. God bless her.

If these wimps want war, they’ll be hanged from sea to shining sea.


17 posted on 06/01/2011 6:34:57 PM PDT by sergeantdave (The democrat party is a seditious organization that must be outlawed)
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To: wac3rd

“’ealth & safety, mate, ‘ealth & safety” has crossed the pond


18 posted on 06/01/2011 6:53:11 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (I asked the bartender for a bin Ladin, she said 'what's that? I said 'two shots then a splash.')
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To: wac3rd
This is the government running rescue.

Wait until they're running healthcare

19 posted on 06/01/2011 6:57:49 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing an idiot)
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To: wac3rd
I don't mean to defend the union thugs here, but it may not have been obvious that the guy was suicidal or even that he was drowning. It would have been obvious that the guy was nuts, but there are plenty of crazy people in the Bay Area, and one learns to ignore them.

I used to run on that beach.

20 posted on 06/01/2011 7:23:14 PM PDT by TChad
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To: wac3rd

A pussycat up a telephone pole would have inspired more effort.


21 posted on 06/01/2011 7:38:59 PM PDT by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast (Please sir...permission to protest?)
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To: patton

The post said “100 yards” not “100 feet.”


22 posted on 06/01/2011 7:49:58 PM PDT by newzjunkey (Worst economy in generations? Yup, that's real change.)
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To: newzjunkey

Yep, you win - A professional fireman cannot swim 100 yards, without some sort of license, or something.

But you are correct - it did say “100 yards.”

More than a fireman can swim, it seems.

Where do they get these union A-holes?


23 posted on 06/01/2011 7:56:47 PM PDT by patton (I am sure that I have done dumber things in my life, but at the moment, I am unable to recall them.)
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To: wac3rd

Hey, with that kind of guaranteed income for life - you don’t want to risk it on saving someone!

Sad part is - if it was policy, I imagine some folks may have wanted to go help, but were held back based on the policy. In the movies it sure works (”screw the policy!”), but today it might be a lawsuit, loss of a job in a terrible economy, fines, arrest - who knows.

And - if the guy really was too far out to be able to help without the proper gear - it doesn’t help anyone to have two victims out in the surf. Although the nurse was able to recover the body. (Hope they don’t get imprisoned, fined or lose their job.)


24 posted on 06/01/2011 8:01:35 PM PDT by 21twelve ( You can go from boom to bust, from dreams to a bowl of dust ... another lost generation.)
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To: 21twelve

And when a blue building is burning, we were not trained to put out fires in blue buildings! Or if you don’t give into our new pension demands, we may not be able to put out fires on red buildings.


25 posted on 06/01/2011 8:33:40 PM PDT by RetiredTexasVet (There's a pill for just about everything ... except stupid!)
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To: wac3rd

If this suicidal man had caused the death of an untrained and unprepared employee of the city, the lawsuits would bankrupt San Fran.


26 posted on 06/01/2011 8:55:59 PM PDT by micmac
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To: RetiredTexasVet

That I hope wasn’t the case. But it will SURE be used as such in hindsight. I know around here it sure does! “This referendum needs to pass or another terrible drowning ....”


27 posted on 06/01/2011 9:03:00 PM PDT by 21twelve ( You can go from boom to bust, from dreams to a bowl of dust ... another lost generation.)
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To: micmac
Yes. A drowning man is a dangerous man.

Suicide is the ultimate act of cowardice.

28 posted on 06/01/2011 9:20:23 PM PDT by MaxMax
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To: wac3rd

I don’t know that I’d use the term “tragedy”. The guy wanted to kill himself and got his wish. If he’d managed to drag two rescuers down with him, that’d be a tragedy.

There’s a classic incident from the Bay Area in the late 50’s, though, that offers a solution to this kind of quandry. A suicidal guy jumped off a bridge from a height that was insufficient for his intended purpose. He was splashing around in the water under the bridge. Police arrived on scene and attempted to talk the guy out. He wouldn’t listen to them, just kept telling them to go away so he could die. Getting fed up with the idiot, one of the officers drew down on him and said, “come out of there or I’ll shoot you”. The guy came out. It seems he wanted to kill himself on his own terms, and having someone else do it would have spoiled everything.


29 posted on 06/01/2011 9:48:03 PM PDT by ArmstedFragg (hoaxy dopey changey)
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To: wac3rd

Most people who try to save drowning people are drowned by the person they’re trying to rescue.

Dragging in a body is easy.


30 posted on 06/01/2011 9:55:14 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: wac3rd

I guess, unlike Southern California beach cities, Alameda doesn’t have any firefighter union lifeguards who are earning six figures who are “trained” to do shallow water rescues. It strikes me as funny that the Coast Guard didn’t respond. Years ago, I worked for a firm in Dublin, CA. We were discharging a very small amount of clean water into the local creek. One day the Coast Guard showed up to tell us that we needed a permit from them to discharge water into a “navigable waterway.” It seems that twenty miles downstream, the creek water made its way into San Francisco Bay and therefore was, by extension, a “navigable waterway.” A co- worker remarked that he was surprised since he didn’t see their cutter parked out back!


31 posted on 06/01/2011 10:49:47 PM PDT by vette6387 (Enough Already!)
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To: dinodino
The Fire Chief in Alameda left in November when he was filmed putting city gas in his personal vehicle. A six figure salary and he steals gas! Now they have appointed as interim chief a retiered firefighter who was formerly the president of the local firefighters union. HIs salary is $161K! But they say that the deal is only for 6 months and it will not affect his ongoing pension benefits which he gets in addition to the salary. Needless to say the union is ecstatic. Go Figure!
32 posted on 06/01/2011 10:55:08 PM PDT by vette6387 (Enough Already!)
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To: DainBramage

cf. post #11


33 posted on 06/01/2011 10:55:25 PM PDT by bunkerhill7
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To: vette6387

A co- worker remarked that he was surprised since he didn’t see their cutter parked out back!
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Back when I was ‘younger’ and could defend myself when I made ‘smart arsed remarks’, used to tell the Coasties (and anyone in listening range) “that one had to be 6’ tall to Join the Coast Guard so when their ship sank they could walk ashore”.

In reality, those guys do a helluva job and deserve a lot more credit than they get.


34 posted on 06/01/2011 10:56:07 PM PDT by xrmusn ((6/98) The more people I run into, the better I like my cat.)
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To: wac3rd
Yep. I said on a previous thread this was about humanity cuts and not budget cuts.

Damn those who were responsible. For the trolls, I was a one time water safety instructor and now a Masters swimmer. I have had my own share of surprise health problems. I would not have hesitated for a second to go into cold water for a lone rescue without a buoy. Shame on all of them.

This was not about training. This was about a detestable government.
35 posted on 06/01/2011 11:10:26 PM PDT by PA Engineer (SP/AW12: Time to beat the swords of government tyranny into the plowshares of freedom.)
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