Skip to comments.Rescue Policy Changed After Alameda Drowning (Firemen watch man drown)
Posted on 06/01/2011 5:55:51 PM PDT by wac3rd
When a fully clothed, apparently suicidal man walked into the San Francisco Bay from Shoreline Drive, in Alamdea County, all the would-be rescuers could do was watch. For about an hour.
Why their boots stayed dry is a matter of debate Wednesday, the day after 57-year-old Raymond Zack was pronounced dead at an Alameda County hospital.
The water's depth and temperature may have played a role. As did budget cuts.
The Alameda Fire Department's water rescue program was discontinued in 2009 because of budget cuts.
"(The) Alameda Fire Department does not currently have, and is not certified, in land-based water rescues. The city of Alameda primarily relies on the United States Coast Guard for these types of events," a police spokesperson said.
But the Coast Guard couldn't operate in water that shallow, according to their own statement. And the water was too deep for police and fire personnel.
At a hearing Tuesday evening, the policy that prevented trained people from intervening and rescuing people in distress was changed.
One man told the board during the meeting, "It just strikes me as unbelievably callous that nobody there with any sort of training couldn't strip off their gear, go in the water, and help this person."
Zack's body was recovered by an off-duty nurse who swam out 50 yards to get him.
(Excerpt) Read more at nbcbayarea.com ...
Your government at work...firemen being paid SIX FIGURES for LIFE with CPI/COLA increases, with LIFETIME HEALTH PLANS...stand on the beach while someone drowns, 50 yards away.
And they get to retire at 50. Sickening.
Clearly, this calls for a federal program. A trillion dollars should fix it.
The SanFranSickos needed something titillating to pump them up for their carnal carnival that evening. What better than to watch, with glee, a human being die before their very eyes.
This is pretty heartless. I am a vol ff we would have tried something. Fast water and cold water rescues present challenges but it sounds like this victim was not in either circumstance.
Unionized “Not My Job” Losers !!
Sack everyone at the scene and their Chief as well.
This is disgraceful.
This is so foul it is beyond words.
I wonder if God is “certified” to forgive such evil?
And it is evil - nothing less.
You can walk out almost 100 yards almost before it gets waist deep to fish for shells. They could have driven a firetruck out 100 yards to get him. There are parts of the bottom that are paved from roads leading out into the bay along there in the 1920s which were abandoned coz they sank. There have never been any lifeguards nor lifeguard tower chairs there since 1965 when I lived there near the beach. This guy had to walk a long way in a mucky bottom to drown. He probably had to sit down to drown.
I live(d) in Oakland and know exactly what you are talking about...it’s a giant sand/mud bar...
Ultimate Beauracracy at work.
“Won’t someone do something.. I can’t because my hands are tied by city hall!”
Just save the guy and worry about it later idiots!
DUMBASS POST OF THE YEAR
I am not a vol FF or anything -
but I would be damned if i let a guy drown 150 feet from shore, “Because I was not trained.”
There are lots of places, where one can drive 100 feet off shore.
Dunno if this is one.
This is a sterling example on why American leftists will never go door-to-door and disarm Americans.
They’re bloody cowards. That includes Marxist, gutless cops.
If these San Fran leftists can’t bear to get their tootsies wet, imagine them trying to round up armed Americans.
Good grief! The man’s dead body was pulled in by a nurse. God bless her.
If these wimps want war, they’ll be hanged from sea to shining sea.
“’ealth & safety, mate, ‘ealth & safety” has crossed the pond
Wait until they're running healthcare
I used to run on that beach.
A pussycat up a telephone pole would have inspired more effort.
The post said “100 yards” not “100 feet.”
Yep, you win - A professional fireman cannot swim 100 yards, without some sort of license, or something.
But you are correct - it did say “100 yards.”
More than a fireman can swim, it seems.
Where do they get these union A-holes?
Hey, with that kind of guaranteed income for life - you don’t want to risk it on saving someone!
Sad part is - if it was policy, I imagine some folks may have wanted to go help, but were held back based on the policy. In the movies it sure works (”screw the policy!”), but today it might be a lawsuit, loss of a job in a terrible economy, fines, arrest - who knows.
And - if the guy really was too far out to be able to help without the proper gear - it doesn’t help anyone to have two victims out in the surf. Although the nurse was able to recover the body. (Hope they don’t get imprisoned, fined or lose their job.)
And when a blue building is burning, we were not trained to put out fires in blue buildings! Or if you don’t give into our new pension demands, we may not be able to put out fires on red buildings.
If this suicidal man had caused the death of an untrained and unprepared employee of the city, the lawsuits would bankrupt San Fran.
That I hope wasn’t the case. But it will SURE be used as such in hindsight. I know around here it sure does! “This referendum needs to pass or another terrible drowning ....”
Suicide is the ultimate act of cowardice.
I don’t know that I’d use the term “tragedy”. The guy wanted to kill himself and got his wish. If he’d managed to drag two rescuers down with him, that’d be a tragedy.
There’s a classic incident from the Bay Area in the late 50’s, though, that offers a solution to this kind of quandry. A suicidal guy jumped off a bridge from a height that was insufficient for his intended purpose. He was splashing around in the water under the bridge. Police arrived on scene and attempted to talk the guy out. He wouldn’t listen to them, just kept telling them to go away so he could die. Getting fed up with the idiot, one of the officers drew down on him and said, “come out of there or I’ll shoot you”. The guy came out. It seems he wanted to kill himself on his own terms, and having someone else do it would have spoiled everything.
Most people who try to save drowning people are drowned by the person they’re trying to rescue.
Dragging in a body is easy.
I guess, unlike Southern California beach cities, Alameda doesn’t have any firefighter union lifeguards who are earning six figures who are “trained” to do shallow water rescues. It strikes me as funny that the Coast Guard didn’t respond. Years ago, I worked for a firm in Dublin, CA. We were discharging a very small amount of clean water into the local creek. One day the Coast Guard showed up to tell us that we needed a permit from them to discharge water into a “navigable waterway.” It seems that twenty miles downstream, the creek water made its way into San Francisco Bay and therefore was, by extension, a “navigable waterway.” A co- worker remarked that he was surprised since he didn’t see their cutter parked out back!
cf. post #11
A co- worker remarked that he was surprised since he didnt see their cutter parked out back!
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Back when I was ‘younger’ and could defend myself when I made ‘smart arsed remarks’, used to tell the Coasties (and anyone in listening range) “that one had to be 6’ tall to Join the Coast Guard so when their ship sank they could walk ashore”.
In reality, those guys do a helluva job and deserve a lot more credit than they get.