I loved it, too..............
Posted on 06/02/2011 12:25:36 PM PDT by Red Badger
Also go read up on the history of Ec O157:H7 and look at the parallels.
Captain Trips!
The silly part was us thinking we could whip mother nature with a few little vaccines and antibiotics. Nature moves on, we have to as well.
Sir, I have heard this charge leveled for many years. What is the mechanism by which overprescribing creates drug-resistant organisms? Is it people that are over-prescribed, or animals? When IS the right time to prescribe antibiotics? Should you withhold antibiotics that *might* help an individual because it might promote drug resistance? Should you let a very sick person die to avoid promotion of drug resistance? How much over-prescribing has to take place to increase the resilience of the bugs? Can you create drug resistant microbes in the lab this way? (Actually, the last question is the only one I'd be very curious to know your views on-the rest I could look up if I was that interested.)
I hope they get it figured out by fall.. we be going to Greece, Italy and other places tho we’ll be eating a lot of cruise-cooked food .. the bummer is I love cucumbers and veggies. I’ll drink the local beer tho. :-)
Travel ain’t what it used to be.. hate to spend it barfing and such.. when there is so much to see in a short time.
Curious... have you yourself or anyone you know of ever tried these immunity tests with colloidal silver?
Didn’t something happen in Brazil after he left?...........
‘Don’t drink the water’ used to be the warning.
Now it’s ‘Don’t eat the salad.”..................
I loved it, too..............
What is the mechanism by which overprescribing creates drug-resistant organisms?
Over prescribing does not “create” drug resistance organisms. Resistant organisms are the result of natural mutations in a population of bacteria (maybe 1 per 1 million cells). When antibiotics are given the non-resistant cells die, the resistant ones live and reproduce.
“Is it people that are over-prescribed, or animals”
Both can be over prescribed.
“When IS the right time to prescribe antibiotics? Should you withhold antibiotics that *might* help an individual because it might promote drug resistance”
It is best to prescribe when testing has shown the bugs are sensitive to a specific antibiotic. It is not usually practical to do this. Only take antibiotics when you have a BACTERIAL infection, not a viral one. If there is evidence of a bacteria infection I would NOT withhold antibiotics. (Note: I am a microbiologist, not a physician)
“Should you let a very sick person die to avoid promotion of drug resistance?”
Emphatically NO!
“How much over-prescribing has to take place to increase the resilience of the bugs?”
There is no firm answer on this.
“Can you create drug resistant microbes in the lab this way?”
It is incredibly easy to do this in a lab by anyone with even rudimentary microbiology skills. I did this in high school biology.
It is important to remember that multiply drug resistant bacteria are mainly a problem in hospitals because antibiotics are given all the time so the selection for resistance is constant. When antibiotics are no longer present, non resistant bacteria will dominate. In other words the resistant bugs once again become a small fraction of the population.
“Curious... have you yourself or anyone you know of ever tried these immunity tests with colloidal silver?”
Colloidal silver works on some bacteria but is not a very good antimicrobial. Bacteria can also become resistant to it.
“It is no “claim” that terrorist plots have discussed mass food poisoning”
///
very true! and, North Korea and some other states, might have an interest in making more lethal versions of common bacteria like E.Coli.
...there HAVE been cases of Islamic terrorist admitting to contaminating food with E.Coli. ...Al-Quada certainly is capable of working on this in the lab.
...and, i read silverleaf on other MANY other topics, for years, and i have great respect for his judgement and instincts.
TRUE, it might be a natural E.Coli mutation. but, certainly, keeping an open mind on possible terrorism is called for, true?
...especially when many facts about this are unusual:
“This is a unique strain that has never been isolated from patients before,” Hilde Kruse, a food safety expert at the World Health Organization, told The Associated Press”
as for: “We let it incubate overnight and look at the plate the next day. If the bug grows right up to the disk, it is resistant.”
...i’ve grown bugs too, for many years in the military.
no big deal. but i’m NOT an expert on genes, etc., so i will keep an open mind, before dismissing ANY possibility.
and I suggest you read up on weaponized e coli
I have been doing so
eye opening
and I am not the only person in the world suspicious that this may not a natural mutation.
Typical scientist mindset?
“Move along folks, nothing to see here.”
Normally 60 cases a year of HUS in Germany. Now almost 400 in the past 3 weeks and climbing, about deadly 30% HUS rate from total known infected.... Normally children and elderly affected but this epidemic almost 70% women, mostly young.
” nothing to see here...just natural mutation”
Plague genetic material. But not designed to cause plague. However, 200% increase in toxicity, selective material shows toxin producing elements of 2 strains of e coli...
“coincidence”
Chinese involvement in typing the pathogen, more coincidence, probably nothing to do with Chinese bio warfare research, or captured WW2 Japanese bio warfare materials from unit 731
Interesting article from Germany
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,765777-3,00.html
I know I’m making some homemade vegetable wash tonight. I got an icky feeling after just reading what these poor people are suffering, and all the usual vectors for e coli, which have pretty much been ruled out for this epidemic.
It is not really a charge, it is a statment of fact.
The problem with overprescribing drugs is not new. Our immune system in many cases is more than sufficient to ward off pathogens. We are infected with pathogens every single day of our lives but never know it because our immune system takes care of them. In fact, it is hypothesized that our immune system kills in excess of 5 million bacteria daily in our throats alone. One of the situations with “overprescribing” of antibiotics often results from physicians prescribing antibiotics for what are clearly viral infections. This is usually done to “hedge their bets” against secondary bacterial infections, which may not even occur. Another is “empiric” therapy, which is basically “trial and error” use of antibiotics. The physician suspects, without lab work, the bug that is causing the infection, and prescribes the usual drug for that bug. Sometimes the physicians are wrong (they are human after all) and they prescribe the wrong antibiotic. The more any bug is subjected to an antibiotic, the greater the likelihood that it can mutate and present with a form which will have developed a “plasmid”, DNA fragments in the cytoplasm, against that drug. Bacteria can actually transfer these plasmids to other like bacteria through a process referred to as transduction, making the situation even worse.
In fact, drug resistance can been demonstrated easily reproduced in the lab. Any “pure” bacterial sample (one composed of only one organism) is not perfectly homogenous. Say for instance you are plating a sample of Staphylcoccus aureus (a common bug found on the skin of some people and other parts of the body but also one of the primary sources of food poisoning). You could plate them on media which contains cephalosporin, an antibiotic which is effective against Gram positive bugs like S. aureus. It is quite possible you will find SA bugs which grow on that cephalosporin plate. You of course have to make sure they are indeed SA and not a contaminant which does happen. But if they are SA, you have isolated a cephalosporin resistant strain. This was of course done in vitro, which is outside the body, but the very same thing can happen in vivo, inside the body. If the patient has both susceptible and resistant strains in their body, they can still have problems due to the resistant strains. You also have to deal with destruction of natural flora, bugs always present in our system and often time very beneficial to us, but that is an entirely different and in depth subject.
This is the reason why we do a C&S (Culture and Sensitivity) test on every sample that comes into my Microbiology lab. Not only are we isolating the bug, we are looking for the antibiotics against which it is most susceptible.
Don’t get me wrong, antibiotics are unquestionably one of the greatest discoveries in the history of medicine. Before the advent of antibiotics, people died from diseases which are easily treatable in any doctor’s office today. But misapplication or overapplication of them can create as may problems as not applying them at all.
This is what happens when you use shit for fertilizer.
MANY Years ago, a scientist was asked what people did before the widespead use of artificial fertilizers. His answer: “They died younger.”
Interesting
mass salad bar food poisoning in Dallas Oregon in 1984, cult used altered salmonella bacteria, similar to experiments by Japanese biowarfare
http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/102001/new_1020010073.shtml
Note the plaque at the town hall and my tagline!
“This is our fault. Doctors over-prescribing antibiotics. Got a cold? Take some penicillin. Sniffles? No problem. Have some azithromycin. Is that not working anymore? Well, got your Levaquin. Antibacterial soaps in every bathroom. We’ll be adding vancomycin to the water supply soon. We bred these superbugs. They’re our babies. And they’re all grown up and they’ve got body piercings and a lot of anger.”
We have required Continuing Education requirements every year and every two years to maintain our ASCP and CLIA licenses which includes several courses on select agents so I am well versed with biological weapons. Courses which are far greater in depth than anything you would have available to you unless you in my field.
You can be suspicious all you want, but until there is concrete proof that this was a biologically engineered bug, conjecture is all you have.
There is actually a lot more truth to that than you realize!
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