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Freakonomics Claim Abortion Drops Crime Rates Refuted Again
Life News ^ | 6/2/11 | Steven Ertelt

Posted on 06/02/2011 3:59:08 PM PDT by wagglebee

Boston Globe writer James Alan Fox has yet another refutation of the claim by economists John Donohue and Steven Levitt in their infamous book Freakonomics that legalizing abortion led to a drop in crime rates.

Fox said readers of the newspaper emailed him recently concerning a New York Times piece on crime rate reductions and they advocated the disproved notion that legalized abortion resulted in a reduction in violent crimes. Fox, a criminologist, has responded and says the theory is full of holes:

Despite persuasive logic regarding a reduction in the number of children born to circumstances that would place them at-risk for growing into criminality, the significance of this effect appears to have been grossly overstated. For example, nearly 60% of the decline in murder since 1990 involved perpetrators ages 25 and older—individuals who would have been born prior to the landmark abortion decision. As shown in the figure below, there were substantial reductions during the 1990s in homicides committed by older age groups, especially those in the 25-34 year-old age range.

abort2.jpg

The abortion-crime link also cannot account for the transient surge in youth homicide during the late 1980s, if not for which the 1990s would not have witnessed such a sizable decline. The rise and then fall in youth homicide before and then after 1990 has much more to do with fast changing patterns of drug trade, gang activity and illegal gun supply than a sudden shift in abortion policy.

Finally, the abortion-crime hypothesis cannot explain the large drop in murder and other violent crime from the first six months of 2009 to the corresponding months of 2010. In fact, nothing really can.

This is not the first time Fox, of Northeastern University, has refuted the abortion-crime theory. He released a study in December 2008 showing a large rise in homicides by black teens in recent years even though black women have the highest abortion rate. The study found homicides by blacks between the ages of 14 and 17 have jumped 34 percent from 2000 through 2007. The number of crimes for white people in the same age range did not increase.

In the book Freakonomics, Levitt claimed legalizing abortion led to a major drop in murder and other violent crimes in the 1980s and 1990s. He theorized that the babies who were victimized by abortion would have been more likely to commit crimes. But Fox’s study shows violent crime in the black community has gone up in the last decade — not down.

“Yes, it’s not nearly as bad as it was in 1990, but it is worse than it was in 2000,” he told the Chicago Sun-Times.

Yet, if Levitt’s hypothesis is true, crime should have gone down significantly in the black community because of a higher abortion rate.

An August 2007 study conducted by a researcher at the University of Maryland shows that legalized abortion has led to higher rates of crime and increased murder rates. That occurred because a higher percentage of children grew up in single-parent homes during the years following Roe v. Wade.

The findings were published in the April 2007 issue of the academic journal Economic Inquiry and are part of a new book written by researcher John R. Lott. According to Lott, the high court’s decision ultimately resulted in more out-of-wedlock births, a reduction in the number of children adopted and fewer married parents.

Before that, Lott and John Whitley, affiliated with the University of Chicago, wrote a paper in August 2006 challenging the abortion-crime reduction claims.

Meanwhile, in November 2005, Christopher Foote, a senior economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston and research assistant Christopher Goetz, told the Wall St. Journal the data Levitt used was faulty.

Foote said there was a “missing formula” in Levitt’s original research that allowed him to ignore certain factors that may have contributed to the lowering of crime rates during the 1980s and 1990s. Foote also argues that Levitt counted the total number of arrests made when he should have used per-capita figures. After Foote adjusted for both factors, the abortion effect simply disappeared, the Journal reported.

“There are no statistical grounds for believing that the hypothetical youths who were aborted as fetuses would have been more likely to commit crimes had they reached maturity than the actual youths who developed from fetuses and carried to term,” Foote and Goetz say in their report.



TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abortion; freakonomics; moralabsolutes; prolife
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“There are no statistical grounds for believing that the hypothetical youths who were aborted as fetuses would have been more likely to commit crimes had they reached maturity than the actual youths who developed from fetuses and carried to term,” Foote and Goetz say in their report.

Perfectly stated.

1 posted on 06/02/2011 3:59:14 PM PDT by wagglebee
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To: cgk; Coleus; cpforlife.org; narses; Salvation; 8mmMauser
Pro-Life Ping
2 posted on 06/02/2011 4:00:04 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: 185JHP; 230FMJ; AKA Elena; Albion Wilde; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; Amos the Prophet; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]


3 posted on 06/02/2011 4:01:55 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
The argument they made that children of single mothers commit more crimes than those with two parent homes.

But it is a perverse argument.

More people means more crime, more suicides, more traffic.

More people also means more amazing talents, more hopeful stories of overcoming adversity, more scientific discoveries, more writing, more friends, more hot babes, more EVERYTHING.

Everything that humans do - is reduced when abortion is performed.

To me this issue says a lot about how you value humankind.

Most liberals hate everyone, including themselves - and think mankind (their own “white oppressive patriarchal culture” especially)is a blight upon the Earth.

Myself, I love my brothers and sisters, the more the merrier!

Another person is not just another mouth to feed, but also two helping hands.

4 posted on 06/02/2011 4:10:12 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: wagglebee

And just how is the crime rate dropped when every abortion is a murder?

Legalizing it isn’t going to get them out of accountability with God. Murder is murder, whether the state prosecutes or not.


5 posted on 06/02/2011 4:12:46 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: wagglebee
It has been an article of faith among liberals since the days of Margaret Sanger and the eugenics movement that encouraging abortion among the poor and minorities will reduce the crime rate. No amount of evidence shakes their belief.

It's hard to get them to admit it in public because they know how awful it sounds, but several have told me this in private.

6 posted on 06/02/2011 4:12:48 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: wagglebee

Yes. Abortion actually encourages more crime, esp. sex offenders. Protects the irresponsible and the criminals from their consequences, in addition to being “legalized” murder itself. A heinous system of genocide, far surpassing all prior dictators’.


7 posted on 06/02/2011 4:13:00 PM PDT by madmaximus (Liberaltarians=junkies,anti-semites,anti-military,cultural marxists without all the taxes)
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To: allmendream
More people also means more amazing talents, more hopeful stories of overcoming adversity, more scientific discoveries, more writing, more friends, more hot babes, more EVERYTHING.

More that ONE BILLION babies have been killed worldwide in the past century.

Statistically that means that a thousand people who are as intelligent as anyone who has ever lived (on the level of DaVinci, Mozart, Locke, Mills, Jefferson, etc.) never had the opportunity to leave their mark on the world.

It's not out of the realm of possibility that the person who would cure cancer was murdered in utero and God does not see fit to send another.

8 posted on 06/02/2011 4:18:28 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Well “cure” is a stretch, given what I know about biology - but I accept your point 100%.

That argument put the “Freak” into their stupid book.

I don’t care how much you line up the numbers saying that most would be the children of single mothers.

What ever happened to overcoming adversity?

They look at numbers and just see averages.

You miss the entire show looking at averages.

People who make history are not average.


9 posted on 06/02/2011 4:23:41 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: allmendream
I don’t care how much you line up the numbers saying that most would be the children of single mothers.

The fact is that a significant percentage of abortions are performed on whites women in their teens and early twenties from upper-middle class families. Women from the same backgrounds who choose to keep their babies typically do not become impoverished and their children do not become criminals.

The abortion pushers also ignore the FACT that, at least in America, Canada and western Europe, there are stable families willing to adopt EVERY SINGLE BABY who would otherwise be aborted.

10 posted on 06/02/2011 4:30:37 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
And I know from genetic studies that adoptees tend to be above average.

Their ‘parents’ had to go through a screen for being stable people who wanted a child to raise.

11 posted on 06/02/2011 4:34:16 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: allmendream
And I know from genetic studies that adoptees tend to be above average.

Even if they're not, being "average" is far preferable to being murdered.

12 posted on 06/02/2011 4:36:57 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
That couples are willing to spend thousands of dollars to adopt babies from this and any other country is evidence that there is no shortage of those willing to adopt. Not only are they willing to spend $20,000 dollars and much more, they are willing to travel and put themselves under the most intense scrutiny to obtain a baby.

It is a tragedy that these babies are aborted, not only because they deserve life, but because there are couples with loving arms reaching out to receive them and love them. How tragic is this?

13 posted on 06/02/2011 4:39:35 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: wagglebee

Criminals are one thing, demoKKKrats are another. What percentage of the people aborted since 1973 would have been lifelong demoKKKrats?? I mean, are there really that many Republicans and conservatives having abortions out there?? Unless you can answer that, there’s an obvious potential problem with wanting to pass draconian laws.


14 posted on 06/02/2011 5:50:48 PM PDT by wendy1946 (Bork Obunga; Before he borks you...)
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To: wagglebee

Kill everyone, end all crime. Logical, no?


15 posted on 06/02/2011 6:15:58 PM PDT by Jabba the Nutt (.Are they stupid, malicious or evil?)
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To: wagglebee

I guess I’m the only one who never thought “Freakonomics” a particularly clever title.


16 posted on 06/02/2011 8:18:32 PM PDT by Minn
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To: wendy1946; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; ...
Criminals are one thing, demoKKKrats are another. What percentage of the people aborted since 1973 would have been lifelong demoKKKrats?? I mean, are there really that many Republicans and conservatives having abortions out there??

Let me see if I've got this straight, YOU SUPPORT ABORTION based on the theory that those aborted would wind up being Democrats? Is that correct?

And for the record, of the 53 MILLION BABIES MURDERED since 1973, not a single one was a Democrat because not a single one ever drew a breath.

Unless you can answer that, there’s an obvious potential problem with wanting to pass draconian laws.

Really, you think that ending abortion would be "draconian"?

You do realize that Free Republic is a CONSERVATIVE PRO-LIFE forum don't you?

17 posted on 06/03/2011 5:28:58 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wendy1946
... there’s an obvious potential problem with wanting to pass draconian laws.

"Draconian laws?" You made a wrong turn.

18 posted on 06/03/2011 5:33:25 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: wendy1946
there’s an obvious potential problem with wanting to pass draconian laws.

Draconian laws?! Are you saying that women have a RIGHT to murder their own children because being pregnant may be inconvenient? Abortion is a modern day Moloch.

19 posted on 06/03/2011 5:35:39 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: DJ MacWoW
Draconian laws?! Are you saying that women have a RIGHT to murder their own children because being pregnant may be inconvenient?

Here's what I AM saying.... I would advise women against abortions in something like 95% of cases. That other five percent of cases involve questions of rape or genetic compromise and the like; all you could hope to accomplish by banning those abortions is the destruction of the Republican party and the conservative movement. Ninety percent of Down Syndrome pregnancies in the industrialized world end in abortion. When you are being beaten nine to one in the marketplace of ideas or in the application of those ideas, you should not be talking about "having a moral absolute".

The 95% of abortions you want to get rid of are the ones young women are having to avoid "ruining their lives" which would have amounted to young married women happily having first children a hundred years ago. The way you get rid of those abortions is again make it both respectable and economically feasible for people to marry and start families in their late teens and early twenties as it was a hundred years ago.

Aside from all of that there actually is a question of the effect of Roe/Wade on crime and, worse, on the national percentage of demoKKKrats. Until somebody makes a study of that one, you have to assume that without Roe/Wade, it might have been twenty years since anybody other than a DemoKKKrat ever won any sort of an election in America.

I'm not trying to poop parties or be a devil's advocate here, just stating the obvious. Religion is the study of how the world ought to be; economics is the study of how the world actually is, and the world we live in is a hard one.

20 posted on 06/03/2011 6:10:03 AM PDT by wendy1946 (Bork Obunga; Before he borks you...)
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To: wendy1946; wagglebee; DJ MacWoW
Criminals are one thing, demoKKKrats are another. What percentage of the people aborted since 1973 would have been lifelong demoKKKrats?? I mean, are there really that many Republicans and conservatives having abortions out there?? Unless you can answer that, there’s an obvious potential problem with wanting to pass draconian laws.

That *draconian* law has been the law of the land in most countries in the world throughout history. It's only recently that Roe v. Wade repealed it and made murder legal although legalizing it does not make it moral.

Abortion is murder, plain and simple. Laws against murder are not *draconian*.

Give us back the laws like this that existed at the time of the writing of the Constitution. The Founding Fathers didn't see any problem with them.

You are clearly on the wrong website.

21 posted on 06/03/2011 6:14:58 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: wendy1946
That other five percent of cases involve questions of rape or genetic compromise and the like;

Can you back that up statistically?

As to the genetic crap I know a couple that will be having their NORMAL son baptized this Sunday. The one they were told to abort because he was defective. He ISN'T.

Ninety percent of Down Syndrome pregnancies in the industrialized world end in abortion.

Need another link here.

You rationalize murder. You're a sick pup.

22 posted on 06/03/2011 6:22:00 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: wendy1946; wagglebee
What percentage of the people aborted since 1973 would have been lifelong demoKKKrats?? I mean, are there really that many Republicans and conservatives having abortions out there??

Wow. Spoken like a true believer in both abortion on demand and Darwinian evolution.

What the hell are you doing on THIS forum?

Shouldn't you be posting at Darwin Central and DU?

23 posted on 06/03/2011 6:22:35 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: wendy1946; DJ MacWoW; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; ...
Here's what I AM saying.... I would advise women against abortions in something like 95% of cases.

So, of the 53 MILLION babies slaughtered since 1973 you think that 2.65 MILLION of them deserved to die?

That other five percent of cases involve questions of rape or genetic compromise and the like;

For starters, abortions of rape victims comprise less than ONE QUARTER OF ONE PERCENT of abortions. Secondly, for what other crimes do you think the child of the criminal should be put to death?

What EXACTLY is genetic compromise? Baldness? Nearsightedness?

all you could hope to accomplish by banning those abortions is the destruction of the Republican party and the conservative movement.

That's the same thing the Whigs said about slavery.

Ninety percent of Down Syndrome pregnancies in the industrialized world end in abortion. When you are being beaten nine to one in the marketplace of ideas or in the application of those ideas, you should not be talking about "having a moral absolute".

You are a twisted troll.

Aside from all of that there actually is a question of the effect of Roe/Wade on crime and, worse, on the national percentage of demoKKKrats. Until somebody makes a study of that one, you have to assume that without Roe/Wade, it might have been twenty years since anybody other than a DemoKKKrat ever won any sort of an election in America.

You sound EXACTLY like every racist eugenicist that has ever lived.

I'm not trying to poop parties or be a devil's advocate here,

Trust me, Satan rejoices in advocates like YOU.

Religion is the study of how the world ought to be; economics is the study of how the world actually is, and the world we live in is a hard one.

Spoken like a true leftist.

24 posted on 06/03/2011 7:17:34 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wendy1946; wagglebee

How nauseating!


25 posted on 06/03/2011 7:25:23 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: wendy1946

None of what you have said sounds conservative.


26 posted on 06/03/2011 7:36:43 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham; wendy1946
She sounds like a bloodthirsty leftist if you ask me.
27 posted on 06/03/2011 7:43:25 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee; wendy1946

Yes, her arguments sound like propaganda from the left.


28 posted on 06/03/2011 7:50:11 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: wagglebee
So many prospective victims have been preemptively murdered. So there you are. Meanwhile our economy is in shambles for lack of wealth builders and consumers and our national security is threatened by an aging population and imploding and broken families.
29 posted on 06/03/2011 8:05:39 AM PDT by Theophilus (Not merely prolife, but prolific!)
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To: wagglebee; metmom

You sound like you’re ready to go to war over this one issue. Funny thing, so are THEY... Another question you need to ask yourself is this: how much control do you think you’re ever going to have over demoKKKrats wanting abortions after CW-II and after the country has been split up over the issue? I still like persuasion and the idea of making it possible for people to marry and start families in their late teens and early twenties better than I like draconian laws.


30 posted on 06/03/2011 8:15:37 AM PDT by wendy1946 (Bork Obunga; Before he borks you...)
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To: Theophilus
Exactly, people do not realize that economic growth REQUIRES normal population growth, abortion messed all of that up.
31 posted on 06/03/2011 8:16:14 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wendy1946
I still like persuasion and the idea of making it possible for people to marry and start families in their late teens and early twenties better than I like draconian laws.

They made murder legal and you are defending it. And doing so by using situational ethics. That is NOT conservative.

32 posted on 06/03/2011 8:24:23 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: wendy1946
Religion is the study of how the world ought to be

James 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

economics is the study of how the world actually is

1 Timothy 5:8
But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

Economics is a study of how to provide for your own. Religion is my duty before the Provider of us all, to be an instrument of his Providence.

33 posted on 06/03/2011 8:27:26 AM PDT by Theophilus (Not merely prolife, but prolific!)
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To: wendy1946; DJ MacWoW; wagglebee; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; ...
That other five percent of cases involve questions of rape or genetic compromise and the like;

You sound like a freaking NAZI! That was the whole idea behind Eugenics; to remove the genetically compromised from the gene pool.

I cannot believe that you are the person who posted the stuff on your forum page. You rail against evolution on your forum page and then you propose man-assisted evolution through eugenics.

Hypocrite is too kind a word for you.

It is time to reassess whether or not you belong on this forum. Either that or it is time to reassess your philosophy.

I hope you enjoyed your stay here at Free Republic. I suspect your days here are numbered.

34 posted on 06/03/2011 8:37:26 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: wendy1946; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; ...
You sound like you’re ready to go to war over this one issue.

53 MILLION INNOCENT AMERICANS have been murdered since 1973. Another is murdered EVERY 24 SECONDS.

What should we be ready to fight for if not innocent life?

Another question you need to ask yourself is this: how much control do you think you’re ever going to have over demoKKKrats wanting abortions after CW-II and after the country has been split up over the issue?

You sound EXACTLY like those who wanted to keep compromising on slavery until our Republic exploded.

Here is what you say on your FR homepage:

The most major areas of discussion on FR which I contribute to are questions of origins science, prehistory, evolution and the like. The theory of evolution is junk science and, as junk science goes, a spectacularly dangerous and harmful variety of such with two world wars, the various eugenics movements, out of control arms races and something like 300,000,000 dead bodies lying around to its credit.

Why are you now ADVOCATING the same Darwinism you claim to oppose?

35 posted on 06/03/2011 8:46:02 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee; wendy1946
Why are you now ADVOCATING the same Darwinism you claim to oppose?

Sometimes I wonder if a FReeper dies, and their liberal relatives take over their account. Only a liberal would desecrate their family member's memory like that.

36 posted on 06/03/2011 8:54:04 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: BykrBayb; wagglebee

The home page doesn’t necessarily mean anything. It’s the posting history that counts.


37 posted on 06/03/2011 9:01:07 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham; BykrBayb
The home page doesn’t necessarily mean anything. It’s the posting history that counts.

Exactly, trolls will often repeat what they've seen somewhere else. This troll probably doesn't even know that what she is advocating is textbook eugenics.

38 posted on 06/03/2011 9:11:42 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee; trisham

I always find the “I’m pro-life, but...” approach entertaining.


39 posted on 06/03/2011 9:17:44 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: BykrBayb; trisham
This one is more of the "I'm personally opposed to eugenics, but think certain people should practice it" variety.
40 posted on 06/03/2011 9:22:52 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee; BykrBayb

That’s very possible, however the average troll is often quite arrogant and tends to inordinately underestimate the intelligence of its opponents.


41 posted on 06/03/2011 9:24:41 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: wagglebee
The fact is that a significant percentage of abortions are performed on whites women in their teens and early twenties from upper-middle class families.

And the fact is that black women have far more abortions, per capita, than women of any other race -- something like 36% of all abortions. (source)

Mr. Fox conveniently does not mention race in his discussion; and yet where crime and murders are concerned race matters -- it matters a lot. Blacks are far more likely to commit crimes, and far more likely to murder and be murdered, than people of other races.

To simply lump all races together, as Fox apparently has, acts to mask the racial component of the equation. FWIW, I think it's a cultural, rather than a genetic issue -- but the racial correlation is real and has to be included.

42 posted on 06/03/2011 9:26:31 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: wagglebee
Why are you now ADVOCATING the same Darwinism you claim to oppose?

I am not ADVOCATING anything; I was trying to describe the real world for you and several others here because it doesn't sound like you understand it but my own tolerance limit for nastiness and ignorance has just been exceeded and I'm outta this discussion.

43 posted on 06/03/2011 9:58:39 AM PDT by wendy1946 (Bork Obunga; Before he borks you...)
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To: wendy1946

FR is a pro-life site. If you continue pushing abortion here, your account will be closed.


44 posted on 06/03/2011 9:58:50 AM PDT by Jim Robinson (Rebellion is brewing!! Impeach the corrupt Marxist bastard!!)
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To: r9etb; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; ...
And the fact is that black women have far more abortions, per capita, than women of any other race -- something like 36% of all abortions.

I'm well aware of this. However, the fact is that two-thirds of abortions ARE NOT on blacks.

Mr. Fox conveniently does not mention race in his discussion; and yet where crime and murders are concerned race matters -- it matters a lot. Blacks are far more likely to commit crimes, and far more likely to murder and be murdered, than people of other races.

Do you also post over at Stormfront?

45 posted on 06/03/2011 10:17:26 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wendy1946; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; ...
I am not ADVOCATING anything; I was trying to describe the real world for you and several others here because it doesn't sound like you understand it but my own tolerance limit for nastiness and ignorance has just been exceeded and I'm outta this discussion.

YES you are advocating the abortion of MILLIONS of innocent Americans because they will either vote a certain way or they may have certain health conditions.

46 posted on 06/03/2011 10:19:19 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wendy1946
there’s an obvious potential problem with wanting to pass draconian laws.

If you can't advocate passing what you call "draconian laws," what are you advocating?

47 posted on 06/03/2011 10:30:29 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: Jim Robinson

Thank you.


48 posted on 06/03/2011 10:32:05 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: wendy1946; P-Marlowe; DJ MacWoW; wagglebee; BykrBayb
That other five percent of cases involve questions of rape or genetic compromise and the like; all you could hope to accomplish by banning those abortions is the destruction of the Republican party and the conservative movement.

How ironic. The biggest proponent against evolution is in favor of abortion in cases of genetic compromise. It's still survival of the fittest, only in this case, man is being set up to determine what the fittest is.

Are you really willing to turn over to some government bureaucrat the authority to make that decision?

Do you consider abortion murder? Do you consider either murder or abortion morally wrong?

49 posted on 06/03/2011 10:50:28 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: wendy1946; wagglebee; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; ...
my own tolerance limit for nastiness and ignorance has just been exceeded

There is nothing nastier or more ignorant that attempting to justify the killing of children because they are "genetically compromised."

I suggest you re-evaluate your philosophical position. Perhaps it is because you are ignorant. We can deal with that. But if your position on the killing of "genetically compromised" babies is one you have actually thought through and not something you just posted on the fly, then I suggest you find a new forum to post your genetic supremacist ideas.

Just because you were born with an 85 IQ is no reason to promote the killing of babies doomed to have an IQ of 84 or less. You are not that special. All men are CREATED equal. IOW all men, even the genetically compromised, have as much value in their Creator's eyes as people like you who who think you were born genetically superior.

50 posted on 06/03/2011 11:23:41 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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