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Jack Kevorkian, why did he live so long?
San Francisco Chronicle ^ | 6/3/11 | Debra J. Saunders

Posted on 06/03/2011 10:50:23 AM PDT by SmithL

Jack Kevorkian and his supporters portrayed the death doc as a compassionate man who offered "death with dignity" to individuals suffering from a poor quality of life. I always saw him as a man who preyed on vulnerable individuals by telling them their lives weren't worth living -- as I watched Kevorkian survive over the years, despite medical problems that dwarfed those of many of his victims.

In 2007, I wrote:

Fans of Kevorkian ought to be asking themselves: In that the ailing Kevorkian is in worse physical shape than many of the people whose lives he helped snuff out, why hasn't the death doc used his vaunted "medicide" on himself? . . .

(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial
KEYWORDS: cultureofdeath; drdeath; euthanasia; ghouls; kevorkian; moralabsolutes; prodeath; righttomurder
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To: little jeremiah

Remedial reading might benefit you. I don’t want government’s permission or your permission to do anything, particularly to end my life if I find it necessary. I can only hope that you get the opportunity to find what a tough guy you really are, you arrogant little worm.


101 posted on 06/03/2011 4:10:18 PM PDT by Magic Fingers
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To: Magic Fingers; little jeremiah

Nobody is stopping you from ending your own life your own self.

Go ahead if that’s what you want to do.

But do it yourself. Don’t drag anyone else into it and don’t demand that the government sanction murder by making forms of it like this not a crime.


102 posted on 06/03/2011 4:17:43 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Magic Fingers
This is a pro-life forum. If you think pro-lifers are "arrogant little worms" there are other places you could go.
103 posted on 06/03/2011 4:19:21 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: Magic Fingers

You’re not clear. You’re advocating doctor assisted suicide and at the same time claiming you don’t. Right now people can kill themselves easily and they do all the time. So what’s your outrage, then?

What tough guy stuff are you talking about? You mean I’d want to kill myself if I was in enough pain? Not a chance.


104 posted on 06/03/2011 4:20:09 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: BykrBayb

This arrogant little worm (I like that, has a certain ring to it) supports the right of all humans not to be pressured or encouraged to commit suicide and to keep the medical profession from turning into executioners.


105 posted on 06/03/2011 4:23:51 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: metmom

“But do it yourself. Don’t drag anyone else into it and don’t demand that the government sanction murder by making forms of it like this not a crime.”

I will “drag someone else into it” if I feel like I need to and they’re willing to help, whether you or the government approves of it or not. I don’t see what’s so hard to undertand about the idea that it’s no one’s business but mine and God’s...not yours, not the government’s, not my neighbor, no one’s. I’m not “demanding that the government sanction murder”, I’m demanding that they stay the hell out of that part of my life (and death), along with any other busybody who might want to intervene.


106 posted on 06/03/2011 4:30:02 PM PDT by Magic Fingers
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To: little jeremiah

Shouldn’t that be “arrogant little jeremiah worm?” LOL

I’m a little surprised we haven’t run out of deathbot trolls. They get zotted on a regular basis, and yet there seems to be no end to them. It’s amazing that they could be surrounded by so much intelligence, and remain so stupid.


107 posted on 06/03/2011 4:32:24 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: little jeremiah

You’re not clear. You’re advocating doctor assisted suicide and at the same time claiming you don’t. Right now people can kill themselves easily and they do all the time. So what’s your outrage, then?

I’m not advocating doctor-assited suicide, I’m advocating the right of every individual to ask for assistance if they need it under those circumstances, and from a professional with the access to the means and knowledge of how to use them should said professional agree to help...WITHOUT the interference of government or any other party that has zero right to intervene.

“What tough guy stuff are you talking about? You mean I’d want to kill myself if I was in enough pain? Not a chance”

Talk is cheap. Time will tell.


108 posted on 06/03/2011 4:35:58 PM PDT by Magic Fingers
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To: BykrBayb

“If you think pro-lifers are “arrogant little worms” there are other places you could go.”

How about that, another know-it-all. I am pro-life. I think that someone who presumes to tell me what I should do with my life when I’m in unbearable pain with no means of relief...especially while calling me names in the process..is an arrogant little worm. There are other places you can go, too.


109 posted on 06/03/2011 4:39:30 PM PDT by Magic Fingers
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To: Hodar
when I state that I would kill, if someone was preventing me from exercising the most basic and fundamental right

Where did you ever get the strange un-American idea that you have a "right" to commit murder?

There is no right to do wrong. Never has been, never will be.

110 posted on 06/03/2011 4:45:49 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (Some of us still 'hold these truths to be self-evident'..Enough to save the country? Time will tell.)
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To: Magic Fingers

No, you are not pro-life. Words mean things. In order to be pro-life, you would have to be, wait for it..... pro-life. If you promote killing people instead of giving them proper medical care, you are not pro-life.


111 posted on 06/03/2011 4:46:38 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: Magic Fingers
i’m not advocating doctor-assited suicide, I’m advocating the right of every individual to ask for assistance if they need it under those circumstances, and from a professional with the access to the means and knowledge of how to use them should said professional agree to help..

Uh - that's called "doctor assisted suicide", bub. Dancing around playing jugglery with word's is cowardly. It's obvious you want the personal responsibility taken away from your good self and placed on a "medical professional". I call that Nanny Statism and a cop-out. You think you might want to kill yourself in the future? Read books, accumulate suicide supplies now. You want to rope doctors in via changing laws. That means "government interference".

Talk is cheap. Time will tell.

You have no clue what kind of life experiences I've been, pain endured, or illnesses suffered. I laugh at your stupid assumptions.

112 posted on 06/03/2011 4:48:31 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: EternalVigilance

Perhaps those ideas come from satanism. They certainly don’t come from any God-based religion. God does not sanction murder, no matter how the deathbots try to twist it.


113 posted on 06/03/2011 4:50:40 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: Magic Fingers
I think that someone who presumes to tell me what I should do with my life when I’m in unbearable pain with no means of relief...especially while calling me names in the process..is an arrogant little worm.

Hmm, no one, let alone this arrogant little worm, is telling you that you can't kill yourself. Go right ahead. People do it all the time. Nothing is preventing you now or in the future. There are books written covering umpteen different methods. What is getting you all riled up is that we are opposing changing LAWS and getting GOVERNMENT INVOLVED and the MEDICAL PROFESSION involved so that you can not take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for your suicide.

And funny that you are calling me an arrogant little worm (I actually like it, sounds kind of cute) and then haughtily accuse me of name calling! Keep it up, I'm getting some good laughs from your comments!

114 posted on 06/03/2011 4:57:27 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: Magic Fingers

Most of Kervorkian’s victims were not terminal.


115 posted on 06/03/2011 4:59:46 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: little jeremiah
You have no clue what kind of life experiences I've been, pain endured, or illnesses suffered. I laugh at your stupid assumptions.

Death mongers frequently assume that anyone who values life has no life experience. They have such a negative view of life, they can't imagine anyone actually valuing it. I've noticed that most of the regulars who advocate for life on the pro-life threads have a rich history of life experience. There are many cancer survivors, disabled people, care givers, etc. On the death side, there are many people who talk about theories, but rarely have they actually experienced anything relevant. Once they actually face a life and death situation, they switch sides real quick. Like their hero Dr. Death, they never apply their own medicine to themselves, except in hypothetical situations and theories. Other people should be killed, but never them.

116 posted on 06/03/2011 5:02:29 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: BykrBayb

I agree with you. I was going to write some of the experiences I’ve had, and then thought better, even jotting down this and that wouldn’t convince anyone.

Pro-death people are very “ME ME ME” centered. Those without compassion for the suffering of others just don’t SEE others. They see only themselves. Their wants.

Another point is that those of us who have come close to death either our own, or others’ (or both) and suffering and illness, and are pro-life, realize that God is in control. Death and life are under His jurisdiction and control, not mine. It’s our job to go along with His plan and His will, not try to wrest control away from Him (which can never really happen anyway, and always creates more suffering). Resting in His will is the only safe place.


117 posted on 06/03/2011 5:16:02 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: BykrBayb

“If you promote killing people instead of giving them proper medical care, you are not pro-life.”

Except that I don’t “promote killing people”. If you get that from what I’ve said about the right to choose to end one’s life and to seek assistance in doing so if desired, without government (or other) interference, then you’re hopelessly determined to stick to your agenda. Have at it. Words don’t mean anything relative to the reality of a situation you have not found yourself in. Talk is cheap.


118 posted on 06/03/2011 5:24:32 PM PDT by Magic Fingers
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To: Magic Fingers
Words don’t mean anything...

Yes, they do. You're promoting killing people. That is not pro-life.

119 posted on 06/03/2011 5:28:43 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: little jeremiah

No need to write about your experiences. When you write about compassion for others, your experience comes through.

You are so right about how our experiences shape us, and bring us closer to God and an understanding and acceptance of His will.


120 posted on 06/03/2011 5:36:27 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: BykrBayb; Magic Fingers

Magic Fingers, you have no idea what kind of life experiences BykrBayb and I have had. No idea. I will be short and say that both she and I have had close contact with death, illness and suffering.

And you are the one who wants Big Gigantic Huge Nanny State government interference and bring the medical profession into your life as a substitute executioner instead of taking personal responsiblity.

You’re not only advocating that doctors become killers with government interference, but you’re advocating the lack of personal responsibility and having Giant Government and “medical professions” take over, rendering people who want to commit suicide into helpless pawns subject to others’ control. People can kill themselves Right Now without changing laws (gov interference) and turning doctors into killers.

You’re a hypocrite. And although these points have been made on this thread over and over, you refuse to address them.


121 posted on 06/03/2011 5:36:48 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: little jeremiah

“I laugh at your stupid assumptions.”

No more than I laugh at yours.


122 posted on 06/03/2011 5:57:01 PM PDT by Magic Fingers
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To: Magic Fingers

I make no assumptions. I just read the words you type.

And you still have not addressed one point I made.

Not even one.

Coward.


123 posted on 06/03/2011 5:58:56 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: BykrBayb

“Words don’t mean anything...”
Yes, they do. You’re promoting killing people. That is not pro-life.

How disingenuous. My statement was “Words don’t mean anything relative to the reality of a situation you have not found yourself in.” I doubt you have a terminal illness and are in intractable pain...and unless you are, anything any of us say about what we’d do under those circumstances is nothing but theory.


124 posted on 06/03/2011 6:05:44 PM PDT by Magic Fingers
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To: little jeremiah

“And you still have not addressed one point I made.”

It’s like trying to have a discussion with a pious stump. I’m done. Pat yourself on the back and keep thinking you’ve got it all figured out.


125 posted on 06/03/2011 6:09:30 PM PDT by Magic Fingers
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To: Magic Fingers

You can’t even address one point. You accuse me of name calling and so far that’s about all you’ve been able to do - type out meaningless slogans and call names.

I’m willing (and able) to debate specific points, you are taking the coward’s way out and refusing to address any specific points.


126 posted on 06/03/2011 6:27:21 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: Magic Fingers

Doubt all you want. I don’t need you to know the truth. We offer it to you, and it’s up to you to decide whether you want to be informed or ignorant.

Words do mean things, whether you’ve experienced life or not. Your inexperience and resultant ignorance does not remove the meaning from words. Words still mean things.

Most people who face situations involving illness, disability or possible death learn things from it. There are exceptions, but they are very stupid people, incapable of learning from their own experiences, much less anyone else’s. I don’t know which group you’re in, but you’ve proven yourself to not be in the group of people who have learned about life.


127 posted on 06/03/2011 6:30:02 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: Magic Fingers; BykrBayb

So only terminally ill people can have any opinions about terminal illness.

Are you terminally ill?

It’s like leftists who say that only women can represent women or know anything about issues that affect women, only blacks can know anything about issues that affect black people, etc.

You’ve had all kinds of strong opinions about people in pain and/or facing terminal illness. You also say that BB and are not qualified to have any worthwhile opinions about people with chronic illness or pain or terminal illness.

Yet you are qualified. How is this?


128 posted on 06/03/2011 6:33:36 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: estrogen
It's a real slippery slope but I think there are many doctors out there that do it quietly.

Yes there are..........One method is to allow a dying patient who is suffering from intense pain to control their own morphine IV's.........

129 posted on 06/03/2011 6:40:32 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco
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To: Hodar
Dr. Kevorkian had people COME TO HIM,

Kevorkian was a ghoul who was fixated on the process of death since he was in med school. His alleged humanitarian effort to aid terminally ill patients in their own deaths was just a front for him to be present so that he could personally observe the final seconds of his hapless victims lives and stare into their eyes as their souls left their bodies........

Assisted suicide was nothing more than a convenient "fix" for this man who was addicted to death........

130 posted on 06/03/2011 6:50:23 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco
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To: little jeremiah; BykrBayb

“Are you terminally ill?”

Yes.

“You’ve had all kinds of strong opinions about people in pain and/or facing terminal illness. You also say that BB and are not qualified to have any worthwhile opinions about people with chronic illness or pain or terminal illness.”

Your feigned ignorance in support of whatever your point is, is tiresome. In spite of my prior statement to the contrary, I’ll try once more (only). I did NOT say you or your buddy can’t have any OPINIONS about pain or terminal illness. However, in no way do you express yourself in the sense of having an opinion, only as a pompous know-it-all whose opinions are facts. You can blow smoke up your own behind as much as you want to and convince yourself that you’ve got it all dialed in, but you ain’t gonna know till you’re looking down the barrel - I don’t care who you know or what you’ve seen, you’re not gonna know till it’s YOU. Until then, all you’ve got is an OPINION. And why you or your pal consider it any of your damn business whether I or anyone else would at some point solicit medical assistance to end their life is beyond me. Life is too short, and shame on me for wasting this much time in this pointless endeavor. I’m done with you.


131 posted on 06/03/2011 7:15:57 PM PDT by Magic Fingers
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To: Magic Fingers

I’m sorry you are experiencing physical suffering.

I’m also sorry that you are experiencing so much anger that you cannot see anything beyond your own mind. You are reading me and BB wrong, making unfounded assumptions about our points of view as well as what we each may be going through right now or in the past.

Hospice care helps terminally ill people find relief from pain without having to kill themselves.

Your rudeness and anger make it impossible to have a rational discussion, and I am sorry for you.

Every one of us will be (or may be right now) dealing with terminal illness, unless we die of a sudden heart attack, stroke or other ailment, or get in a fatal accident. Death of the temporary earthly body is something everyone faces, you are not the only one. Those with terminal illness are not the only ones with a valid viewpoint.

And since you can type, you can certainly find ways and means to commit suicide*, without the intervention of Big Gov and turning the medical profession into executioners.

*I am not advocating that you do this. I hope that you make peace with your condition and can face the end of your physical body with peace in your heart, and I also hope that you understand or come to know that your real identity is an eternal soul, and that “death” is not the end of one’s existence.


132 posted on 06/03/2011 7:56:30 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: Magic Fingers

Oh enough of the histrionics. Quit pretending you know what other people have experienced. You clearly don’t know squat. You pretend that you’re dying, but not fast enough. If you’re serious about wanting to commit suicide, to avoid a natural death, go ahead. You don’t need the government to rubber stamp it for you. You don’t need to corrupt our health care system. Just swallow your bullet, poison, or truck bumper, as the case may be, and leave the civilized people out of it.


133 posted on 06/03/2011 7:58:37 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: little jeremiah

You’re so much more compassionate than I. I’ve lost patience for the poser.


134 posted on 06/03/2011 8:03:12 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: gov_bean_ counter
Why did he live so long? Took Satan a while to ramp up the furnace?

Or maybe part of God's plan?

135 posted on 06/03/2011 8:07:00 PM PDT by SeeSac
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To: BykrBayb

When people refuse to address any points made but only make false assumptions and emotion or opinions as though they were fact, there’s no point in “debating” any more.


136 posted on 06/03/2011 8:23:32 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: Magic Fingers

I am really sorry you had to put up with the bullshit from some freepers here who don’t understand what it is like to be faced with a terminal illness. You did the right thing to just stop responding.

I had a cancer situation two years ago with 5 miserable months of treatment. It was a no-brainer to me that if the treatment didn’t work out for me, I was not going to cause my family to endure a long, drawn-out hospice/morphine haze/diaper situation.

No one can understand a decision like that unless they have looked it in the eye. Until they do, it is all just philosophy and imagination.

Best of luck to you, FRiend.


137 posted on 06/03/2011 9:30:28 PM PDT by Semper911 (When you want to rob Peter to pay Paul, you'll always have the support of Paul.)
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To: Semper911
I am really sorry you had to put up with the bullshit from some freepers here who don’t understand what it is like to be faced with a terminal illness.

You missed a couple of points.

1. No one is advocating that he or anyone else who wants to commit suicide should be chained up so as to prevent them.

2. What some of us are advocating is that the government should not be involved in killing people, nor should members of the medical profession be turned into executioners.

3. You have no clue as to what other people on this thread may be facing in their own lives or the lives of people they care about or care for.

138 posted on 06/03/2011 10:05:16 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: little jeremiah

I wasn’t talking to you, and I didn’t miss anything.

Good night.


139 posted on 06/03/2011 10:23:57 PM PDT by Semper911 (When you want to rob Peter to pay Paul, you'll always have the support of Paul.)
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To: SmithL

“Why did he live so long?”

He didn’t, he was only 82.


140 posted on 06/03/2011 10:41:35 PM PDT by dalereed
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To: EternalVigilance
There is no right to do wrong. Never has been, never will be.

So, there is NEVER a reason for war? Never a reason to defend yourself - sounds like a pascifistic attitude to me. I am no pascifist.

When you take it upon yourself to decide FOR me what I can, and cannot do; your life is forfeit. Much the same mine would be if I decided to waltz into your house, and decide that your belongings should be mine, or right to worship is superceded by my religion.

That's what freedom is folks, the RIGHT to decide for yourself, to live your life as you wish. It is not the freedom to trample my rights - you do so at your peril. That's why we had a war with Great Britian, a Civil war; and we are fighting the Islamics today. They have the opinion that THEIR way is the right way, and they are willing to kill us to force us to kneel at their alter. You are apparently willing to do so; because you won't kill to defend yourself. Then, hypocritically you have decided that I must abide by your will. Hence my comparison to Hitler, Stalin and Obama. I refuse to submit to your will - you will allow me to make my own life's decisions, as I will allow you to make yours. I wouldn't dream of forcing my will upon anyone else - and anyone who would force their will upon me - well, there is a REASON the Founding Fathers gave us the right to bear arms; and it wasn't for 'coon hunting.

141 posted on 06/04/2011 12:19:56 PM PDT by Hodar (Who needs laws .... when this "feels" so right?)
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To: Hodar

I’m sorry that you don’t know the difference between just war and murder. You seem very confused on a number of important points, frankly.


142 posted on 06/04/2011 12:47:52 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (Some of us still 'hold these truths to be self-evident'..Enough to save the country? Time will tell.)
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To: EternalVigilance
Why do you feel the need to oppress people? Where did you get the misinformation that your opinion supersedes everyone else’s?

Consider, the Bill of Rights grants us the ‘Inalienable rights of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness’. Do I have the ‘inalienable right’ to be a slave, if I so desire? Do I have the right to seek misery? Yes, these are my God-given rights - as is the right to seek death.

You seek to oppress others, to force your will - and all tyrants are opposed by Freedom loving individuals. Just as I need not ask, or care about your opinion as to my church, I need not ask your opinion to terminate my life.

Here's a real simple litmus test. A murder victim is NEVER a willing participant. Murder, by it's very essence is a violent act perpetrated against an unwilling victim.

Perhaps if you knew anything about ALS, you would be a bit more compassionate. Think of it as a death sentence that will end with your slow suffocation, where you are just too exhausted to breathe on your own. You see, first you lose your balance and can't hold things. You trip easily, you can't hold your knife and fork. So, someone feeds you and you wind up wheelchair bound. Then you lose your ability to control your limbs entirely, followed by your bowels. Later on, you lose your ability to talk. Then, you find yourself having to consciously concentrate on breathing.

You can't communicate, you can't eat, dress, move, move your fingers or toes - and in the end; you will lie in your bed gasping until you die.

But hey; your kind and loving God WANTS you to suffer this - it must give you and him a heck of a good laugh to watch someone wither and die like this. If you are lucky; this will all happen and you will die in just 6 months or so; if you are not so lucky - you can hang in there for several years in bed.

Meanwhile, the medical bills will mount; you will exceed your $2 Million medical insurance allowance, some self-righeous and arrogant tool will use every legal means to stop you, or your spouse from the inevitable. You will leave behind a bankrupt spouse, without a home, retirement or savings.

But, as you feel good about your decision; that's all that matters, right? My sincere advice? Do not get in the way of someone who doesn't believe as you do, it will not end well. Show them the same level of respect they show you; allow them to live and die, as they see fit. You are free to make whatever decision you want with your life; but not someone else’s.

143 posted on 06/06/2011 6:42:57 AM PDT by Hodar (Who needs laws .... when this "feels" so right?)
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To: EternalVigilance
Why do you feel the need to oppress people? Where did you get the misinformation that your opinion supersedes everyone else’s?

Consider, the Bill of Rights grants us the ‘Inalienable rights of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness’. Do I have the ‘inalienable right’ to be a slave, if I so desire? Do I have the right to seek misery? Yes, these are my God-given rights - as is the right to seek death.

You seek to oppress others, to force your will - and all tyrants are opposed by Freedom loving individuals. Just as I need not ask, or care about your opinion as to my church, I need not ask your opinion to terminate my life.

Here's a real simple litmus test. A murder victim is NEVER a willing participant. Murder, by it's very essence is a violent act perpetrated against an unwilling victim.

Perhaps if you knew anything about ALS, you would be a bit more compassionate. Think of it as a death sentence that will end with your slow suffocation, where you are just too exhausted to breathe on your own. You see, first you lose your balance and can't hold things. You trip easily, you can't hold your knife and fork. So, someone feeds you and you wind up wheelchair bound. Then you lose your ability to control your limbs entirely, followed by your bowels. Later on, you lose your ability to talk. Then, you find yourself having to consciously concentrate on breathing.

You can't communicate, you can't eat, dress, move, move your fingers or toes - and in the end; you will lie in your bed gasping until you die.

But hey; your kind and loving God WANTS you to suffer this - it must give you and him a heck of a good laugh to watch someone wither and die like this. If you are lucky; this will all happen and you will die in just 6 months or so; if you are not so lucky - you can hang in there for several years in bed.

Meanwhile, the medical bills will mount; you will exceed your $2 Million medical insurance allowance, some self-righeous and arrogant tool will use every legal means to stop you, or your spouse from the inevitable. You will leave behind a bankrupt spouse, without a home, retirement or savings.

But, as you feel good about your decision; that's all that matters, right? My sincere advice? Do not get in the way of someone who doesn't believe as you do, it will not end well. Show them the same level of respect they show you; allow them to live and die, as they see fit. You are free to make whatever decision you want with your life; but not someone else’s.

144 posted on 06/06/2011 6:45:23 AM PDT by Hodar (Who needs laws .... when this "feels" so right?)
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To: Hodar

Regardless of where you come down on the side of assisted suicide, the fact is that Kervorkian was a murderer:

http://www.freep.com/article/20070527/NEWS05/70525061/SUICIDE-MACHINE-PART-1-Kevorkian-rushes-fulfill-his-clients-desire-die

‘In reviewing the lives and deaths of 47 people whose suicides have been publicly linked to Kevorkian since June 1990, Free Press reporters interviewed hundreds of people and examined thousands of pages of documents, including medical records, autopsy reports, marriage and divorce records, police files, personal notes and letters.

The investigation also debunks perceptions that Kevorkian only helps people who are terminally ill — likely to die within six months — or are in agonizing pain.

In fact, at least 60 percent of Kevorkian’s suicide patients were not terminal. At least 17 could have lived indefinitely and, in 13 cases, the people had no complaints of pain.’


145 posted on 06/06/2011 6:50:57 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Hodar

You lack any knowledge or understanding of this matter. You don’t even know the difference between the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights.

And your ignorance in this case is dangerous. It’s because of selfish, ignorant people like you that thousands more innocents will die today, brutally butchered because of selfishness.

And, as your last post shows, what you’ve really got is a deep problem with God.


146 posted on 06/06/2011 6:57:15 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (Some of us still 'hold these truths to be self-evident'..Enough to save the country? Time will tell.)
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To: EternalVigilance

You are projecting. I have no problem with God at all.

I have a problem with people who feel that they have some magical ability to dictate how other people live, or how they die. We are all dying; it’s part of life.

We are each accountable to God for how we live, and how we die - and we are accountable ONLY to him, not to you. I have no idea where any of our founding father’s writings, where anywhere in the Constitution you find that you have the ability to dictate how I chose to die.

Do you believe that my life is propety of the State? That only the State can decide when I can die? I claim my life as my own; you claim my life (something that I can find no American values in) as something you have a voice in.

Do you allow total strangers to dictate how you live your life? Is this somehow acceptable to you, or are you of the belief that you are master of your destiny, and somehow are master of mine as well?


147 posted on 06/06/2011 7:13:43 AM PDT by Hodar (Who needs laws .... when this "feels" so right?)
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To: dfwgator

Ok, let’s say that a strong 60% could have lived ‘indefintely’ and were not in pain. Would you want to live paralyzed from the neck down for the next decade? How about if you couldn’t talk, because you can’t breathe on your own. You can see, and listen; but can’t move your hands, head, or even chew your food. After some period of time, would you pray for a swift and painless death?

Would you want some arrogant, self-righeous stranger dictating that your family will be saddled with the bills, will lose the house, your savings and retirement? That you haven’t quite suffered enough to satisfy them. That no matter how much you want to die; the promise of jail time to anyone who would help you is a dire threat.

Or, would you prefer to call your family to your side, say your Goodbye and terminate your life, and leave the final judgement up to God. Do you think God would want you to be paralyzed? Unable to feed yourself, getting bedsores and deficating all over yourself because you have no control of such things. Unable to eat, to do anything or interact in any manner - just lying there. Sure, you can watch TV, listen and read - but you can’t do anything else.

I would chose death, and I suspect you would too. In biblical times, paralysis of this sort was a death sentence; the misery would eventually end. Today, we can maintain this state as long as the brain remains active; we don’t even need a heart or many internal organs to remain functional anymore.

This is why SOME (not all, but some) patients have successfully sued the hospital to remove their feeding tubes, and have voluntarily starved themselves to death. I guess if watching a person starve to death over a period of weeks makes you feel good - you are the ‘sick’ one. I would ask you ‘where is the Compassion for your fellow man?’

The merciful thing to do would be to first assure that they have the ability to make up their mind, and if they are sure they want to escape their mortal coil; to allow them the bliss of death in a painless and compassionate method - such as a strong opiate.

We show this compassion to an animal, but we deny this same level of compassion to another human. Some would call this Sadism.


148 posted on 06/06/2011 7:26:48 AM PDT by Hodar (Who needs laws .... when this "feels" so right?)
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To: Hodar

Government has a sworn responsibility to protect innocent human life. That’s the primary reason for its existence. But you know nothing of any of this. As your posts show, you think the source of rights is a piece of paper, or your own will.

By the way, if you want to hear God’s views on this, read Genesis chapter nine. God’s imperative command when it comes to the shedding of innocent blood has never been revoked or revised.

In other words, take it up with Him, not me.


149 posted on 06/06/2011 7:36:36 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (Some of us still 'hold these truths to be self-evident'..Enough to save the country? Time will tell.)
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To: EternalVigilance

But the point is - YOU are injecting yourself into MY decision.

My stance is simple; what you do, is YOUR business. As long as you exploit no minor, cause no harm to anyone else, threaten or destroy anyone’s property - what you do is YOUR business. You are captain of your destiny. How long you live, what you do, and how you die is your choice, and yours alone. The State has no claims on you, or your soul.

I demand the same rights you claim, for myself and everyone else. Freedom for me, and Freedom for thee.

If I am not free to decide for myself; then I am not free.


150 posted on 06/06/2011 8:03:48 AM PDT by Hodar (Who needs laws .... when this "feels" so right?)
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