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Not born this way: The facts, plus help available
Save California ^ | Various authors

Posted on 06/05/2011 7:48:09 AM PDT by scripter

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1 posted on 06/05/2011 7:48:12 AM PDT by scripter
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To: 185JHP; AFA-Michigan; Abathar; Agitate; Albion Wilde; AliVeritas; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; ...
Homosexual Agenda Ping

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the homosexual agenda ping list.

Be sure to click the FreeRepublic homosexual agenda keyword search link for a list of all related articles. We don't ping you to all related articles so be sure to click the previous link to see the latest articles.

Add keywords homosexual agenda to flag FR articles to this ping list.

2 posted on 06/05/2011 7:49:00 AM PDT by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: scripter

Now we know why the DOD has to cut healthcare costs to vet and dependents. They will see sky rocketing cost from the infux of homosexuals.


3 posted on 06/05/2011 7:52:40 AM PDT by OldGoatCPO (Social engineers build bad bridges.)
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To: scripter

This article contains rationale facts, which will immediately cause the homo-ingratiated to screech and flee in horror. So it will do little good.


4 posted on 06/05/2011 7:52:57 AM PDT by fwdude (Prosser wins, Goonions lose.)
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To: scripter
I think there are two types of homosexuals; biological and imprinted.

A small percentage of homosexuals are biologically gay due to hormonal imbalances in the womb. Rats can be made homosexual by putting the mother in extreme stress during pregnancy, for instance.

Imprinted homosexuals are those whose first sexual experiences were homosexual. The vast majority of homosexuals are this way.

5 posted on 06/05/2011 7:53:31 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (If Sarah Palin really was unelectable, state-run media would be begging the GOP to nominate her.)
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To: scripter

Many of the above links could easily be their own thread. This should be a great reference article.


6 posted on 06/05/2011 7:54:13 AM PDT by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: scripter
It isn't a gene it is the level of testosterone during pregnancy that alters the brain.

Having grown up down the street from a kid that painted his toenails and liked dolls as a child, and of course grew up to be gay, I have no doubt at all that some gays are born that way.

There is no way some of the more extreme flamers are of the same gender that I am, and there is no way it is a result of upbringing or "attitude".
7 posted on 06/05/2011 7:56:49 AM PDT by StolarStorm
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To: StolarStorm

As someone who has followed the science on this subject since 1991: If you could find some science or any credible scientist to support your position I’m more than interested.


8 posted on 06/05/2011 7:59:08 AM PDT by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: scripter

If they truly believed that they were born that way, they wouldn’t be in schools trying to convert children.


9 posted on 06/05/2011 8:01:38 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
A small percentage of homosexuals are biologically gay due to hormonal imbalances in the womb.

I've heard that quite a few times but have never seen any science to support it. That is, I haven't read any study that hormonal imbalances are causal to same-sex attraction.

10 posted on 06/05/2011 8:01:49 AM PDT by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Good point.

One fact: homosexuals cannot procreate. This means, if it is a genetic trait, it will have faded away into nonexistence... if you believe in natural selection which most Liberal/progressives do.

11 posted on 06/05/2011 8:02:17 AM PDT by dhs12345
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To: dhs12345
This means, if it is a genetic trait, it will have faded away into nonexistence...

From a scientific perspective, it could be recessive. Still, I haven't read any credible studies that it is.

12 posted on 06/05/2011 8:07:13 AM PDT by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: scripter
I've heard that quite a few times but have never seen any science to support it.

Homosexuality: A Natural Cause?

"Abstract: Male rats were exposed to prenatal (i.e. before they were born) or postnatal (after they were born) stress, or both. The prenatally stressed males showed low levels of male copulatory behavior and high rates of female lordotic responding. Postnatal stress had no effect. The modifications are attributed to stress-mediated alterations in the ratio of adrenal to gonadal androgens during critical stages of sexual differentiation. Specifically, it appears that stress causes an increase in the weak adrenal androgen, androstendione, from the maternal fetal adrenal cortices, or both, and a concurrent decrease in the potent gonadal androgen, testosterone."

Parental Stress Feminizes and Demasculizes the Behavior of Males, Science, January 7, 1972 (83-84).


13 posted on 06/05/2011 8:08:21 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (If Sarah Palin really was unelectable, state-run media would be begging the GOP to nominate her.)
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To: BykrBayb

No doubt, exposure to it will >create< more homosexuals or bisexuals.

It is not unlike an addiction. Starts out small and ends up ruling a person’s life... looking for that next level of thrill.

There may be other driving factors, but this one of the causes.


14 posted on 06/05/2011 8:09:39 AM PDT by dhs12345
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To: scripter

There is no scientist or doctor who could predict or announce at birth the future sexual behavior of any newborn child.

The same goes with any social behavior.

Through the years I have seen studies that have claimed to find the alcoholic gene, studies that claim to find behavioral traits among children that may mean that they could become a serial killer, etc....

None of these studies though find any definitive test for predicting the future social behavior of any new born child or even older child or even adult.

Thus any support of giving corrupt or criminal behavior rights as if they were innate behavioral traits is an extremely dangerous precedent.


15 posted on 06/05/2011 8:11:42 AM PDT by TheBigIf
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To: scripter
Since I'm not an expert on the subject I'll have to defer to other posters to provide that evidence. I've just read a few articles here and there about it.

But having also been around a lot of gays at a former company (airline... they love working for airlines), I just can't see how some of them couldn't be born that way.

It can't all be just "affections". Some of them went out of their way to appear "manly" but everyone could still tell. Based on lots of interaction with them, I just can't see how their could not be a biological difference.

They may choose to BE gay in the sense of active involvement, but I'm not so sure they choose how they are deep down.
16 posted on 06/05/2011 8:13:40 AM PDT by StolarStorm
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To: scripter
Good point. But gayness is a huge hindrance to procreation.

Gays cannot procreate.

Agreed about the credible studies — interesting that there hasn't been a study. Maybe because it isn't PC.

17 posted on 06/05/2011 8:14:13 AM PDT by dhs12345
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To: scripter
I've seen some "butch" lesbians who definitely look as if they have too much testosterone for a normal female. Since testosterone helps muscles grow and increases aggression, higher levels give some women an edge in sports. Think of the disproportionate number of female athletes who are gay: Billy Jean King, Martina Navratilova (more muscle and less fat that a typical woman)...

As for the males, there are gay males who look and act very macho.

18 posted on 06/05/2011 8:18:33 AM PDT by hellbender
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Thanks. I’ll take a look.


19 posted on 06/05/2011 8:21:13 AM PDT by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: dhs12345

Actually, homosexuals can procreate if they are not exclusively homo in their behavior. Think of certain Congresscritters who were “happily married” with multiple children before they were caught one night going the other way.


20 posted on 06/05/2011 8:21:38 AM PDT by hellbender
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

“I think there are two types of homosexuals; biological and imprinted.
A small percentage of homosexuals are biologically gay due to hormonal imbalances in the womb. Rats can be made homosexual by putting the mother in extreme stress during pregnancy, for instance.

Imprinted homosexuals are those whose first sexual experiences were homosexual. The vast majority of homosexuals are this way. “

I believe you are correct except in your ratio. Very very few homosexuals are really imprinted. Speak to the many members of SNAP, adults who were raped as kids by clergy, teachers, and other authorities. Even men who were raped for years as boys see themselves as heterosexual, but of course they have often lifelong sexual issues. It didn’t make them gay.

Most gay men did have their first sex experience with a man or other boy. Because that’s whom they were attracted to. Not the other way around. Picture a woman to whom you could never be attracted. Somehow you are young and innocent, maybe drunk, and she takes advantage of you. You would still not seek her out thereafter. Abuse doesn’t turn you gay (though it can ruin your life) or change what appeals to you.

And you are right about the influences in the womb. I am always wishing Freepers would understand the influences there, because many differences in the prenatal environment cause sexual development problems. Most homosexuality is a birth defect. Not genetic coming through genes, but epigenetic, influenced upon the growing person by differences in the womb during the week when sexual parts and brain connections are being wired.

Many animals are born with sex behavior differences due to pollution, especially the soft bodied creatures. Who do we think we are, that all the plastics and neurotoxins in our bodies would never affect our unborn? Other birth defects happen in the same way.


21 posted on 06/05/2011 8:24:41 AM PDT by Yaelle
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To: scripter

Not every gay was born that way. Some of them got sucked into it...


22 posted on 06/05/2011 8:25:42 AM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 864 of our national holiday from reality. - Obama really isn't one of us)
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To: Yaelle; E. Pluribus Unum

Yeah, the same can be said for any other kind of pervert as well.


23 posted on 06/05/2011 8:28:19 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate "Republicans freed the Slaves Month")
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To: scripter

Yes and no. To start with, the far greater number of congenital defects, physical and psychological, found in homosexuals, tends to indicate that there are at least some “proclivities” towards homosexuality. But that is only part of the equation.

This has been demonstrated repeatedly with mammals in laboratory conditions since the 1960s. About halfway through gestation, the testes of a male fetus will secrete a squirt of testosterone that will travel to its brain and tell it that it is a “male” brain. If this testosterone does not arrive, the brain is, by default, female.

Scientists were able to block this testosterone in male fetuses, or add some artificially to female fetuses. The end result being an animal that thinks it is of the other gender, to include its mating behavior. They were even able to block it to half the brain, so the animal would exhibit both male and female behavior.

However, and a big however, while this is enough to determine animal sexuality, it is *not* enough to determine human sexuality.

That is, a male human fetus whose testosterone is blocked naturally, or by an artificial chemical, will indeed exhibit female behavior in many ways, but it will *not* influence who they are sexually attracted to. Most likely, they will be more feminine heterosexuals.

Likewise, a female human fetus that gets a squirt of testosterone via some means, will indeed be masculine in character, but still the odds strongly favor her being heterosexual.

This indicates that gender identification in the brain is not enough to “make a homosexual”. It also dispels the idea that animal models can be used to determine human sexuality.

In turn, this supports the idea that environmental factors and upbringing do hold some key elements to determining human sexuality, strong enough to overcome gender identification.


24 posted on 06/05/2011 8:32:38 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: hellbender

Congenital adrenal hyperplasia causes girls to be exposed to excessive levels of testosterone in utero. Even though the condition is typically corrected at birth, when diagnosis is made, these females are much more likely to have male interests and behaviors (eg more interested in sports than average girl) and be lesbians once old enough to have a sexual preference.

For males, however, I think any biological basis is probably something other than sex hormones.


25 posted on 06/05/2011 8:34:35 AM PDT by freespirited (Truth is the new hate speech. -- Pamela Geller)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Maternal stress:

In rats, researchers have found a link between maternal stress and demasculinizing effects in the sexual behaviour of male offspring.

The mother’s stress leads to a delayed testosterone surge in male rats. An East German researcher, Dorner, claimed to have found a similar stress effect in humans during the Second World War. If mothers underwent a lot of stress, he found no heterosexuality in their young offspring,25%bisexuality, and 35%homosexuality.
The remainder were too young to know what their preferences
were.
10

These were spectacular results, but the study appears to be
maverick. Other studies on rats could not find the effect, and stress in human mothers delays the testosterone surge much less markedly than in rats. Dorner has also been criticized for not interviewing the mothers.
30

Three other studies on humans did not
find any effect.
30

A later and more sophisticated study, although it
found no correlations with stress for boys, did find an unsurprising relatively strong correlation between homosexual fantasy and childhood gender non-conformity
30
(see Chapter Three). Curiously,
in this study, there was a moderate correlation for girls between maternal stress and lesbianism, which made no sense to the authors. Girls are not exposed to a pre-natal testosterone surge, so a delayed surge makes no sense in this context.

The latest and biggest survey 31 basically concludes that
there is a small weak effect for boys and a more significant effect for girls. A similar survey for the stressful effects of an historic Dutch famine could find no effects.
32

In no case can the effects be described as overwhelming, which is why it has been so hard to establish. It is another minor factor in the development of homosexuality for a few people.

http://www.mygenes.co.nz/PDFs/Ch7.pdf


26 posted on 06/05/2011 8:35:17 AM PDT by massmike (Massachusetts:Stopped hanging witches;started electing Kennedys.Coincidence?)
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To: ROCKLOBSTER; Yaelle

Exactly. There is no scientific test for yaelle’s pet theory that homosexuality is caused by plastics in the womb or whatever it is that yaelle believes.

If we are to accept that homosexual behavior is caused at birth (and there is plenty of evidence to suggest it is not) then the same standard could be used for all deviant and perverse behavior in order to gain rights.

In reality the majority of evidence points directly to behavioral choices. Since the sixties ‘sexual revolution’ we have seen all sorts of changes in the sexual beahvior of each generation of youth. From my experience in talking with younger people there does seem to be a rise in bi-sexual behavior as well as all perverse sexual activity among youths. This cannot be explained by any biological cause at all but most definetally seems to0 be due to indocrination by the left-wing.


27 posted on 06/05/2011 8:37:17 AM PDT by TheBigIf
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
After a cursory look at your link, I already see numerous issues with the article. The top section "interesting facts about being gay" lists 7 bullet items that have all been debunked.

The 1972 Ward study isn't included, just the abstract and some snippets, then the author, Dan Eden appears to take some liberties with what little is there. I'll see what I can find on the study.

28 posted on 06/05/2011 8:37:43 AM PDT by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: hellbender
Yes. Agreed.

But “Nature” is always against the homosexual — “two strikes.” And after generations and generations and thousands and thousands of years, the “gene,” if dominant will become nonexistent.

29 posted on 06/05/2011 8:39:35 AM PDT by dhs12345
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To: scripter

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!


30 posted on 06/05/2011 8:41:38 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

“However, and a big however, while this is enough to determine animal sexuality, it is *not* enough to determine human sexuality.”

How do we know?

Little children who play gender-different (their interests, etc) may grow up to be straight, but a significNt amount of these little kids ( the sporty girl with the desire to wear boys clothes and short hair, the boy who loves pink and nail polish) DO find themselves attracted to their own sex at puberty.


31 posted on 06/05/2011 8:41:38 AM PDT by Yaelle
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To: massmike

Summary:

Although there are some pre-natal hormonal effects on sexual
behaviour for lower animals, there is not convincing evidence for such an effect on sexual orientation in humans.

The studies examining the effects of high doses of female hormones to pregnant women are particularly informative because these are very high doses and any hormonal effects on sexual orientation should show up clearly. But the result is a dubious effect on women and no effects on men. Any effects on sexual orientation appear to be better explained in terms of gender non-conformity—a psychological construct.

Sex hormones do increase or lower sex drive, but that
appears to be about all.

The maternal immune hypothesis seems very speculative, and
needs much more evidence before it is taken more seriously.
We leave the last word to several researchers in the field.

James
44
summarises the evidence for effects of prenatal hormone
exposure on subsequent sexual orientation as “weak”.
In summary, the evidence from prenatal endocrine
disorders and from the offspring of hormone-treated
pregnancies suggests that hormones may contribute
to, but do not actually determine, the course of sexual
orientation in individuals with an abnormal sex steroid history during prenatal life.
3
“At this time, the literature does not support a causal link
between hormones and homosexuality.”
12
Also, “In clinical practice numerous patients are encountered with gross abnormalities of their hormonal profiles. As a rule this does not impact on their gender identity or sexual orientation.”
45
So, not only your genes didn’t make you do it, it seems your
hormones didn’t either. In sexual orientation, the strongest stimulation appears to come from the mind and the environment.

http://www.mygenes.co.nz/PDFs/Ch7.pdf


32 posted on 06/05/2011 8:41:58 AM PDT by massmike (Massachusetts:Stopped hanging witches;started electing Kennedys.Coincidence?)
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To: scripter

I completely believe that it is environmentally enforced. I knew three men in my life all three of them were abused as children by men. Two of them, came out of the closet, and re-enforced their lifestyle by immersing themselves in it, seeking conditions that would reward them for the behavior, the third sought a more christian lifestyle, re-enforcing his tendencies to be heterosexual. Only one of them claimed they were “born” gay, but he was raped at age of three, so how would he know that. Like I say, it’s completely based on environment and continued re-enforcement of behavior.


33 posted on 06/05/2011 8:43:25 AM PDT by swatbuznik
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There have to be some gay freepers around. Yes, there are plenty of gay conservatives. Maybe they could shed light on this topic (everyone... be nice).

If they never remember a time when they were attracted to women, and never had an event or person that influenced them to be gay, that would sure seem like a bit of anecdotal evidence that biology plays a part.
34 posted on 06/05/2011 8:44:02 AM PDT by StolarStorm
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To: scripter

I remember reading about a study done in regards to how pimps completely re-write the sexual desires and morality of their prey. It is of course done similiar to tactics on brainwashing.

But for me the study indicated even further that a person is not born that way in regards to their sexual desires. A person can be and is conditioned by their environment.

If not then how is it that pimps could actually change the natural sexuality of those that they dominate and condition? If we all are simply born with specific sexual attractions then there would be no chance of using environmental conditions to change that, yet there is plenty of proof that a person’s sexuality can be changed if there morality is changed.


35 posted on 06/05/2011 8:47:05 AM PDT by TheBigIf
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To: TheBigIf

It’s not my pet theory but there is some evidence that Something in the environment is causing these epidemics in other neurological differences, like autism. And sexual development happens for a very short time in fetal development. Epigenetics is a huge field right now. Darwin’s theories are somewhat challenged by what occurs in the mammalian womb. It’s fascinating.

It could be any number of things in our environment : artificial hormones as fed to food animals or found in water supply from birth control pills, maybe some of the pervasive plastics or petro-products. But something is definitely messing us up.


36 posted on 06/05/2011 8:48:39 AM PDT by Yaelle
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To: Yaelle
Little children who play gender-different (their interests, etc) may grow up to be straight, but a significNt amount of these little kids ( the sporty girl with the desire to wear boys clothes and short hair, the boy who loves pink and nail polish) DO find themselves attracted to their own sex at puberty.

Please cite sources of studies, otherwise your statment is less than meaningless.

37 posted on 06/05/2011 8:50:48 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: Yaelle

You repeatedly bring up this ‘plastics in the womb creates homosexuality at birth’ theory and even claim in this thread that you wish you could get Freepers to agree.

Sure sounds like it is your pet theory to me.


38 posted on 06/05/2011 8:51:04 AM PDT by TheBigIf
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

“I think there are two types of homosexuals; biological and imprinted.”

I think so too. I venture that only 5% are “born that way” and the rest are either mentally ill or imprinted.

Which ever way you look at it, they are an anomaly.

They are also human beings and should not be harassed or mistreated


39 posted on 06/05/2011 8:51:54 AM PDT by alice_in_bubbaland (DeMint 2012! or Herman Cain 2012!)
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To: StolarStorm

I’m not gay and when I defend innocent children who have gender-varying behavior, I am taken to the woodshed and thoroughly whipped by Freepers who insist I am wrong. So a gay freeper would not be wise to come out.

As you see on this thread, a lot of people feel homosexuality is a moral weakness.


40 posted on 06/05/2011 8:53:00 AM PDT by Yaelle
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To: alice_in_bubbaland

How about they stop harrassing and mistreating the rest of society and keep their perversions behind closed doors where they belong.


41 posted on 06/05/2011 8:54:13 AM PDT by TheBigIf
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To: Yaelle

Believe me, this was a top concern, again all the way back to the 1960s.

Farmers regularly use plant estrogen to give them better yields of their crops. But plant estrogen is very similar to human estrogen, and also acts as a testosterone blocker. Likewise there are other, industrial synthetic chemicals that also block testosterone. They were scared that there was soon to be a huge epidemic of feminized, homosexual males.

But it didn’t happen. While there has been some increase in the number of more androgynous males, the rates of homosexuality are about unchanged.

Relatively vast amounts of hormone supplements are dumped into our sewers, enough to clearly affect some populations of freshwater fish, but somehow we have either evaded it or our bodies are able to overcome it.

The biggest human effect seems to be in an increased number of children who need gender reassignment. Even Saudi Arabia recognizes such situations and permits reassignment.

So, for example, a boy “knows” he is a girl in a boy’s body. But even after reassignment surgery, he, now a she, is still sexually attracted to girls. This ends up with the unenviable situation of homosexuality that really isn’t.


42 posted on 06/05/2011 8:55:07 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: Yaelle
Lots of kids are hitting puberty earlier now then they used to. Lots of factors involved with that I'm sure. But I agree something is wrong. Maybe lack of exercise, hormones in the water supply, sexual exposure at a younger age via the media, ... perhaps all of these factors. And yes, Autism and autism spectrum disorder have significantly increased. They've ruled out vaccines as a cause, but something is going on.

And to those that seem to think that the idea of chemicals affecting us and our children is just hyperbole... remember what Chinese melamine did to our pets (mine included)? There may well be chemical additives that have long term, and subtle affects that we are not aware of yet.
43 posted on 06/05/2011 8:55:53 AM PDT by StolarStorm
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To: StolarStorm

Exactly. Something is affecting our humble bodies in a bad way. And our reproductive organs and systems are extra susceptible to whatever chemical onslaught is going on. The most helpless we are is as a rapidly developing fetus.

I am so sorry about your pet! Aw. We switched away from dry kibbles back then and now feed only mostly organic and non big cheap commercial brands. It’s scary.


44 posted on 06/05/2011 9:01:22 AM PDT by Yaelle
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To: Yaelle
"I’m not gay and when I defend innocent children who have gender-varying behavior, I am taken to the woodshed and thoroughly whipped by Freepers who insist I am wrong. So a gay freeper would not be wise to come out."

Ok, good point. So far though most on here have been fairly decent. They don't like homosexuality, but they aren't calling for their destruction.... just a change in behavior. And the christian types just want to save them. I think they mean well.

I'm neutral on the topic. I don't care so much what people do on their own time. The only thing I don't care for with regard to gay people is the seeming need to throw it in people's faces (gay pride parades and so forth). Heteros don't seem to feel the need to hold parades and hetero days at Disney world. If they want equality they need to expect equality... meaning no special treatment and no need for excessive public displays.
45 posted on 06/05/2011 9:03:36 AM PDT by StolarStorm
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To: Yaelle
It was an awful way to die. My cat wasted away and we couldn't find a cause. The vet put her on a special diet... but turns out... that friggin special order prescription cat food had melamine in it too! Argghhhh....

I still think some of that melamine got into the human food supply and it all got covered up.
46 posted on 06/05/2011 9:10:22 AM PDT by StolarStorm
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To: scripter

Truthful facts about homosexuals (or any other “protected” class, come to think of it) are categorized as hate speech.


47 posted on 06/05/2011 9:19:05 AM PDT by JimRed (Excising a cancer before it kills us waters the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: scripter

Thanks for all the info. on this sexual disorder. I’m bookmarking it because I know I’ll be referring to it again.


48 posted on 06/05/2011 9:27:04 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Baruch atah Adonai Elohenu melech ha'olam, hamotzi lechem min ha'aretz.)
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To: scripter

If something going wrong in the uterus is causing homosexuality, would the homosexuals want it fixed?


49 posted on 06/05/2011 9:28:59 AM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: alice_in_bubbaland
“I think so too. I venture that only 5% are “born that way” and the rest are either mentally ill or imprinted.”

I agree with your statement. There ARE some people that ARE born this way. I know two of them. One is a cousin, the other a kid from my neighborhood that I grew up with. In both cases they were obviously different from the time we were four or five years old.

In the case of my cousin, his uncle was a great guy, an outdoors man, and the fellow who taught most of us to hunt and shoot. My cousins younger brother fits the apt description of “poon hound.” It's a complete mystery why my other cousin is the way he is, but he is. And it was obvious he was “different” from the time we were four or five years old! There's some mystery there that hasn't been figure out yet.

50 posted on 06/05/2011 9:39:43 AM PDT by I cannot think of a name
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