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No more national anthem at pacifist Indiana college
WTHR 13 ^ | 6/7/11 | Staff

Posted on 06/07/2011 10:17:26 AM PDT by Nachum

Goshen - A small northern Indiana college has decided to stop playing "The Star-Spangled Banner" at sporting events after starting to do so for the first time last year. Goshen College's board of directors says it will find an alternative that honors the country and the Mennonite Church-affiliated school's pacifist traditions. The 1,000-student college has been playing an instrumental version of the national anthem, followed by a peace prayer, before games and other events. Some were upset with the school's decision last year because the song's lyrics contain references to using war and military might to defend the country.

(Excerpt) Read more at wthr.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: anthem; more; national; no

1 posted on 06/07/2011 10:17:27 AM PDT by Nachum
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To: Nachum

Maybe, the adults footing the bill for their kids, can send them elsewhere.

No law against boycott


2 posted on 06/07/2011 10:19:53 AM PDT by SMARTY (Conforming to non-conformity is conforming just the same.)
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To: Nachum

Fools. If it weren’t for war, they wouldn’t have such freedom.


3 posted on 06/07/2011 10:20:00 AM PDT by RexBeach (If two people know, it's not a secret.)
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To: Nachum

“Some were upset with the school’s decision last year because the song’s lyrics contain references to using war and military might to defend the country.”

As opposed to using what, exactly, to defend the country? Hope and strongly worded letters?

The alumni of this college is all destined for the U.N.


4 posted on 06/07/2011 10:20:45 AM PDT by bolobaby
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To: Nachum

I really have no respect for pacifists who enjoy our country’s freedoms while rejecting the sacrifices that were necessary to secure them. I’d frankly much prefer if the Mennonites didn’t dishonor our national anthem by using it at their events. They can also feel free to not fly our flag at their facilities, that is, if they do so anyway.


5 posted on 06/07/2011 10:21:09 AM PDT by MeganC (NO WAR FOR OIL! ........except when a Democrat's in charge.)
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To: Nachum
Problem with being a Mennonite is that you end up with a morality that says there's no sense in going to the aid of someone who is being beaten up because, as it turns out, they participated in it all by being there.

It's a misunderstanding of logic and human nature that leads them to imagine that both sides are equally culpable.

I never trust anyone who is a Mennonite.

6 posted on 06/07/2011 10:21:13 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Nachum

They won’t honor the country by playing anything but The Star Spangled Banner, bombs bursting in air and all!


7 posted on 06/07/2011 10:21:23 AM PDT by luvbach1 (Stop Obamania in 2012)
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To: Nachum
Then I guess they wouldn't like This song then.

These Must be the people who invented Quaker Guns

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/Quaker_Gun2.jpg

8 posted on 06/07/2011 10:21:49 AM PDT by KC_Lion (If Sarah can't be elected in 2012, then Phase II will fall into place, may G-D have mercy on us all)
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To: RexBeach

>>Fools. If it weren’t for war, they wouldn’t have such freedom.<<

In a time of relative peace, one can afford to lose their nationalism for a time. But nationalism is a form of survival for a country. Lose it in dangerous times and you lose your country.

As we are about to lose ours.

There is a reason early cities were walled cities. We are about to learn why first hand.


9 posted on 06/07/2011 10:22:44 AM PDT by RobRoy (The US today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: RexBeach

I e-mailed them that exact point.


10 posted on 06/07/2011 10:26:40 AM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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To: Nachum
War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the
decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings
which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man
who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing
which is more important than his own personal safety, is a
miserable creature and has no chance of being free
unless
made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

-John Stuart Mill

11 posted on 06/07/2011 10:32:12 AM PDT by Lou L (The Senate without a fillibuster is just a 100-member version of the House.)
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To: Nachum

Saying you can’t use force to defend yourself isn’t pacifism, it’s pacification.


12 posted on 06/07/2011 10:35:56 AM PDT by Free Vulcan (Vote Republican! You can vote Democrat when you're dead.)
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To: Nachum

They do this to feel good about themselves and to have an air of being more evolved and above it all. Meanwhile they take a free ride on the backs of those who must make the life and death decisions and are willing and able to do the hard things that keep us free.


13 posted on 06/07/2011 10:36:06 AM PDT by Anima Mundi (If you try to fail and you succeed , what have you just done?)
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To: Nachum

Seems like the first verse of either “God Bless America” or “America, the Beautiful” would be a good alternative.


14 posted on 06/07/2011 10:36:44 AM PDT by rwa265 (Christ my Cornerstone)
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To: SMARTY

Does this private school receive ANY government funding/grants loans ? No national anthem NO help at all from the US taxpayers IMO. And NO licence nor recognition of any degrees either IMO. Why would anybody send their child to an institution that is unAmerican?


15 posted on 06/07/2011 10:37:41 AM PDT by StonyBurk (ring)
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To: Nachum

Maybe they can sing “We Are the World” instead?


16 posted on 06/07/2011 10:50:18 AM PDT by Soothesayer9
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To: StonyBurk

Parents can be more cautious when spending their higher education dollars.


17 posted on 06/07/2011 10:58:16 AM PDT by SMARTY (Conforming to non-conformity is conforming just the same.)
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To: StonyBurk
Why would anybody send their child to an institution that is unAmerican?

In case you hadn't noticed, there are a very large number of Americans who are essentially anti-American. Some of them are presumably parents.

18 posted on 06/07/2011 10:59:02 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Soothesayer9
"Maybe they can sing “We Are the World” instead?"

If they really want to clear out the stands, they need to play "It's a Small World After All" over and over and over and over again ...


19 posted on 06/07/2011 11:00:03 AM PDT by BlueLancer (Square Dancing - Friendship Set To Music)
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To: Nachum

What gratitude for our Nation’s Fallen . . .coinciding with the invasion of Normandy


20 posted on 06/07/2011 11:01:07 AM PDT by A_Former_Democrat ("Celebrate 'Civility'")
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To: Nachum

Throughout his career, Chesterton was a vigorous enemy of pacifism. What he did believe in was the right, or the duty rather, of self-defense and the defense of others.

Chesterton was also a vigorous enemy of militarism. Both ideas, he argued, were really a single idea — that the strong must not be resisted. The militarist, he said, uses this idea aggressively as a conqueror, as a bully. The pacifist uses the idea passively by acquiescing to the conqueror and permitting himself and others around him to be bullied. Of the two, Chesterton thought the pacifist far less admirable. In fact, the pacifist, for him, was “the last and least excusable on the list of the enemies of society”.

They preach that if you see a man flogging a woman to death you must not hit him. I would much sooner let a leper come near a little boy than a man who preached such a thing.
This should not be understood as a lust for fighting. “The horror of war”, Chesterton wrote, “is the sentiment of a Christian and even of a saint”. But in refusing to strike any blow, pacifists announce their readiness to surrender the higher ideals of “liberty, self-government, justice, and religion”.


21 posted on 06/07/2011 11:06:12 AM PDT by hellbender
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To: bolobaby
“Some were upset with the school’s decision last year because the song’s lyrics contain references to using war and military might to defend the country.”

And Onward Christian Soldiers is ... ?

22 posted on 06/07/2011 11:07:02 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: rwa265

An excellent point. Although we have one official national anthem, there are three unofficial anthems (with My Country ‘Tis of Thee) that celebrate our nation that could be substituted. “God Bless America” would seem to be the most rousing musically and lyrically.


23 posted on 06/07/2011 11:08:06 AM PDT by skr (May God confound the enemy)
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To: Nachum

Some people can’t help themselves. They just have to walk through the revolving door without pushing, and then admire themselves for their wondrous virtue.


24 posted on 06/07/2011 11:09:09 AM PDT by YHAOS (you betcha!)
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To: ilovesarah2012

Good on you! :)

-Rex


25 posted on 06/07/2011 11:14:41 AM PDT by RexBeach (If two people know, it's not a secret.)
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To: RobRoy

Great post! Thanks, RR!

-Rex


26 posted on 06/07/2011 11:15:30 AM PDT by RexBeach (If two people know, it's not a secret.)
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To: Nachum

How about “The Good Ship Lollipop”?

Thats where these people dwell, in their heads


27 posted on 06/07/2011 11:20:26 AM PDT by silverleaf (All that is necessary for evil to succeed, is that good men do nothing)
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To: Nachum

“A “pacifist male” is a contradiction in terms. Most self-described “pacifists” are not pacific; they simply assume false colors. When the wind changes, they hoist the Jolly Roger.”
—Robert A. Heinlein


28 posted on 06/07/2011 11:21:00 AM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have Ingsoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: Nachum

“Those who refuse to support and defend a state have no claim to
protection by that state. Killing an anarchist or a pacifist should
not be defined as “murder” in a legalistic sense. The offence against
the state, if any, should be “using deadly weapons inside city
limits”. or “creating a traffic hazard”, or “Endangering bystanders”,
or other misdemeanor.

“However, the state may reasonably place a closed season on these
exotic asocial animals whenever they are in danger of becoming
extinct.”
—Robert A. Heinlein


29 posted on 06/07/2011 11:23:47 AM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have Ingsoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: Nachum
Maybe they'll substitute "Gosudarstvenniy Gimn SSSR" for it (the USSR national anthem) parts of which are:

An unbreakable union of free republics, Great Rus' joined together forever. Long live the creation of the will of the peoples, The united, the mighty Soviet Union!

CHORUS: Be glorified, our fatherland, united and free! The sure bulwark of the friendship of the peoples! The Soviet banner is the flag of the people, Let it lead from victory to victory!

30 posted on 06/07/2011 11:31:03 AM PDT by SkyDancer (It's not the police that protect our rights, it's our military)
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To: Nachum
I bet their football team is just fabulous. "Stop pushing me, you big brute. I'm a pacifist." Here is their helmet.


31 posted on 06/07/2011 11:32:43 AM PDT by crusty old prospector
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To: Lou L
Well if you're going to go around quoting John Stuart Mill, I guess I'll throw this in...

I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.

-John Stuart Mill

32 posted on 06/07/2011 11:56:57 AM PDT by stormer
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To: Nachum

This is a historic Mennonite College. They have held steadfast in their pacifism for many years. If there is a tornado or natural disaster they are usually the first to help. I am not a pacifist but I attended a Quaker college and I have nothing but respect for these sects. They don’t change with the wind. They are not fair weather pacifists. Many of the medics in Vietnam were Mennonite! Give them some slack they are not jihadists!


33 posted on 06/07/2011 11:57:23 AM PDT by 2nd Amendment
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To: Nachum

Maybe they should play John Lennon’s “Give Peace A Chance” before their games.

{sarc}


34 posted on 06/07/2011 12:01:42 PM PDT by Allegra (Hey! Stop looking at my tagline like that.)
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To: stormer
My use of Mill's comment on War was not an absolute endorsement of any other of his thoughts. His comment on War however, was entirely appropriate for the original topic.
35 posted on 06/07/2011 12:11:19 PM PDT by Lou L (The Senate without a fillibuster is just a 100-member version of the House.)
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To: 2nd Amendment

Thanks for your comments. A friend of mine happens to be an Mennonite and is in fact a product of Goshen College. He is an outstanding individual - the world could use many more like him.


36 posted on 06/07/2011 12:28:51 PM PDT by stormer
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To: Nachum
Holy Cow .... what a bunch of DUmmies responding on this thread.

This is a PRIVATE - RELIGIOUS school.

How they conduct their business, whether you agree with it or not, is their business.

You might want to also review that musty old document you often refer to, but seem to selectively disremember.

37 posted on 06/07/2011 1:06:36 PM PDT by diogenes ghost
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To: muawiyah

I grew up in an Evangelical Congregational Church, which was an off shoot of the Mennonite Church that split at the same time as the Evangelical United Brethren.

I never heard a single word about pacifism in the church. It really surprises me. I guess that could be that part of the reason that EC church separated was because they didn’t want the centralized control of the Mennonite Church. The Mennonites that I knew were all plain people, I guess I might have known something about the pacifism because we considered them to be much like the Quakers, only stricter.


38 posted on 06/07/2011 1:15:32 PM PDT by Eva
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To: Nachum

I didn’t know Mennonites were such pacifists that they refused to listen to Music/songs referring to war. I wonder how many books in the Bible they have to stop reading due to this aversion?


39 posted on 06/07/2011 1:22:36 PM PDT by DesertSapper (God, Family, Country . . . . . . . . . . and dead terrorists!!!)
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To: Nachum

I can get in line with this, compared to the real hypocrites and their despicable behavior elsewhere. It’s a Mennonite school for goodness sake.


40 posted on 06/07/2011 1:31:43 PM PDT by jimfree (In 2012 Sarah Palin will have more quality executive experience than Barack Obama.)
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To: Eva
There are offshoots ~ and they've all turned their back on the pacifism part. Part of that had to do with the Civil War.

You'll find your typical Quaker group in Indiana is different from that in the East, and it was precisely the pacificism.

The whole theory breaks down when people are fighting to free slaves.

The Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) picked up a good number of lesser known formerly pacifist groups over the years ~ e.g. the Dunkards ~ and you are likely to encounter some pretty strong proponents of the Quaker/Mennonite pacifist position out of them ~ except for WWII and the Civil War.

I've noticed on trips back home that the Old Order Amish are making a really big move into Indiana. They go whole hog into the whole pacifist thing but I've heard even they back off from letting the hogs eat 'em.

41 posted on 06/07/2011 3:50:31 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: skr

The true peoples’ anthem is, of course “The Battle Hymn Of The Republic”. Those others are of lesser value and historic interest.


42 posted on 06/07/2011 3:54:28 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

I’ve heard that most of the Mennonites are no longer plain people. They are now rich suburbanites who like to send their kids to the Mennonite schools.


43 posted on 06/07/2011 5:24:32 PM PDT by Eva
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To: muawiyah

I’ve heard that most of the Mennonites are no longer plain people. They are now rich suburbanites who like to send their kids to the Mennonite schools.

Oh, and the EUB joined the Methodists, years ago.


44 posted on 06/07/2011 5:25:21 PM PDT by Eva
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To: Eva
Knew that one. There are Church of the Brethren congregations around in urban areas that simply don't follow the "old time religion".

My own grandfather changed churches when he found a really good job in the old Post Office Department ~ carrying a gun!

His own church didn't allow guns to be carried against humans ~ although they allowed hunting. So he found a church that allowed folks to carry guns on the job.

45 posted on 06/07/2011 5:34:12 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

I went to college at a school that was associated with the EUB. Religion was a required freshman course. We read theologians ranging from Thomas Aquinas to Paul Tillich.

My minister was head of the joint seminary for EUB and EC churches and so when I went home, I asked him if he agreed with Tillich. He said yes and that he had to preach the kind of sermons that the congregation wanted to hear. I never went back.


46 posted on 06/07/2011 5:45:10 PM PDT by Eva
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To: 2nd Amendment

I agree with you.


47 posted on 06/09/2011 9:15:21 AM PDT by syriacus (Of course Obama has no idea what a US President is supposed to do. HIS president was Suharto.)
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To: 2nd Amendment
This is a historic Mennonite College. They have held steadfast in their pacifism for many years. If there is a tornado or natural disaster they are usually the first to help. I am not a pacifist but I attended a Quaker college and I have nothing but respect for these sects. They don’t change with the wind. They are not fair weather pacifists. Many of the medics in Vietnam were Mennonite! Give them some slack they are not jihadists!

Your common sense has no place in this thread. It's far better to pile on with the hatred and vitriol for a people that dare to disagree with one's own ideology.

48 posted on 06/13/2011 11:15:46 AM PDT by freedomwarrior998
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