Posted on 06/10/2011 6:28:26 AM PDT by marktwain
Recently, police have been involved in what looks like murder in the course of home invasion and murder with intimidation of witnesses and press. At this rate, I expect the distinction between the ordinary Ordnungspolizei and Einsatzgruppen to become insignificant.
As the experience with Minneapolis home invaders indicates, birdshot is not sufficient against armored opponents. At least two good hits were scored by the defender with minimal effect. The perpetrators were decorated by the police department even though they wrongdoing and settled the case at the cost to the taxpayers of over $600K. At least in this case the victims were not injured.
Jose Guerena’s example suggests also that holding fire is the wrong thing to do if attacked by either freelance or government thugs. A lawful person who has no cause to expect a police raid is more likely to face regular criminals impersonating police than uniformed criminals representing themselves. In any case, return fire at least spoils the aim of the invaders. Just kneeling before the intruders while they take aim or kill your pets is not the way to go.
>>Before opening fire on the police, regardless of how much in the right you are, you should be aware that by doing so you are choosing one of two options:
A. (the more likely) death by police fire on the field of battle.
B. life in prison.
Is it right these are the only two options? Nope. But that doesn’t change the fact they are.
Is this hill worth dying on? I firmly believe there are such hills, but is this it?
Choose wisely.<<
I have given this some deep thought and I have come to the conclusion that more than likely I will shoot through the door in an effort to bring the attackers advancement to a halt. Why do I feel this way? One reason and one reason only, neither my wife nor I take part in any criminal activities so I have no reason to expect a forced entry from the local police.
Anyone attempting to break into our home will be viewed as committing a criminal activity and should expect an appropriate response. If the police want to speak to me or search my home, knock on the door and wait until I can get to the door (I use a cane to walk) or call me on the phone and tell me there are officers at my door who want immediate access. My Caller ID had best be saying Sparks Police Dept.
I applaud you for giving this some thought.
Not necessarily the decision I would make, but a perfectly defensible one, IMO.
Starting with those that send the SWAT teams first.
I have my list, do you have yours?
When I have to submit to an ATF inspection for my 07/02 SOT, I always invite over my neighbors, one an LRPD officer, and a Pulaski County Sheriff. They trust ATF about as far as they can throw them.
I have made it known to my friends at both departments that a call and a knock, I will be more than accomodating, but I have a large inventory of firearms that KKK, Hells Angels, survivalists, etc. would kill my family and I for.
I told them both that I would take any no-knock entry (even legal) as an assault to kill my family and take my inventory by the above criminals. I don't have time to see if they are real LEO or local gangbangers using a ruse. Thankfully the PIO goes to church with us and I'm pretty certain that they don't want to proverbally "poke the angry dog with the stick" if a good petting will suffice.
I do.
“A. (the more likely) death by police fire on the field of battle.”
Or, Option A-1. Kneel before your masters and be executed.
as the article stated, *IF* you are 'innocent' the odds are that you are facing imposters...
hesitation is not yer FRiend...
the *wrong door* unit of the local SEAL wannabes will very likely kill ya dead, but there have been several cases of homeowners living to tell about it...and cash the fat check...
being as though theyre wannabes, and NOT SEALs, they aint used to the target shootin back...
***4-5 seconds worth of a siren squawk that sounds EXACTLY like my car alarm instead of the half hour they initially claimed?***
A few years ago we were vacationing in Carlsbad NM when we heard the siren of a police car. As we continued it got louder, and louder so we and SEVERAL OTHER cars pulled over.
Then a woman came out of her house, hit her key pad and shut the alarm off. It sounded exactly like a police siren.
I’m still looking for a set of locomotive air horns that I could mount on my truck. The one set I found were too big to fit my Dakota, not to mention steam powered, but I’m assuming some of the newer models are smaller.
WKU... I admitted nothing. Matter of fact, I was 14 and manning my algebra book when I that law was passed. I didn’t feel the effects from it until 7 years when I bought my 9mm Ruger and had a gimped 10 rd. magazine. Since then, I’ve been an ardent supporter of 2A.
I only said what I said having read anecdotal accounts of the time period in books such as “Unintended Consequences” and made corollaries based on historical facts: people have consistently rolled over for gun bans with little more than a whimper and a sigh. I hope the tide changes, but as a 31 year old well-armed Conservative, I hope history doesn’t repeat itself.
You admitted nothing?
"Americans are sitting fat and happy in their leather recliners watching their 60 inch DLP TVs in 1080p high def. We’ve become a nation of “go along to get along” types. I’m just as guilty."
Does "I'm just as guilty" mean something different in your neck of the woods? 'Cause it sure sounds to me like you admitted to being a go along to get along guy, sitting fat and happy in his leather recliner, watching his big-screen hi-def TV, while the government runs roughshod over our rights. If that's not you, why did you say "I'm just as guilty"?
"...when the Clintoon AWB went into effect with little more than a whimper from gun owners."
"I was 14 and manning my algebra book when I that law was passed. I didn’t feel the effects from it until 7 years when I bought my 9mm Ruger and had a gimped 10 rd. magazine."
"I only said what I said having read anecdotal accounts of the time period in books such as “Unintended Consequences” and made corollaries based on historical facts:"
So in other words, you're talking out your a**.
If you're going to make a bold statement, such as accusing us gun owners who vigorously fought the AWB of letting it pass with "little more than a whimper", you'd better be ready to back it with more than anecdotal evidence, and what you consider to be "historical facts". Especially considering you weren't old enough to vote, or even understand the issue at the time. I was a 29-year old soldier stationed in California in 1994, and took considerable career risks speaking up and speaking out against the Coward-in-Chief and his party's infringement on the 2nd Amendment.
Had it not been for we PO'd gun owners voting the 'Rats out of office en masse in '94, you might not have been able to buy your Ruger seven years later. There were all kinds of plans in Congress to ban semi-auto pistols and shotguns, ban any ammo capable of penetrating body armor (IOW, any rifle ammo over .22 LR), ban any ammo that had ever been used for military purposes (IOW, even .22 LR), etc. Had we gun owners not put the Pubbies back in control of Congress, the 2nd Amendment would've been dead. There's a "historical fact" for you.
I'm glad you're exercising your RKBA, and that you consider yourself a conservative. I, too, hope history doesn't repeat itself, but if it (likely) does, are you going to get out of your leather recliner, turn off you big screen TV and do your patriotic duty? Here's an idea: why don't you turn off the TV now, give up your go-along-to-get-along ways, and help those of us who are (again) vigorously opposing attempts to ride roughshod over our (and your) rights? Maybe if you and others like you get out of your leather recliners and help us pull the wagon, history won't have to repeat!
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
It only gets worse from here, and that is something we all need to be aware enough to admit. Whatever happens to the economy, jobs, party in power, etc., doesn't change the trajectory, which is always toward more state power and control.
We have SWAT teams in every city now. They are the hammer in constant search of a nail.
The only question we need to answer is what do we do when we ARE the nail, either because of a wrong address, mistaken identity, association, previous resident at same address, etc.
“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? . . .” -Solzhenitzyn
Thanks for saving me a bunch of keyboarding. I had hundreds of hours and big $$$ in trying to stop the AWB.
A four cops left at the Sparks PD are “currently busy”.
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
Pete, got a guy who wants horns that sound like yours. Air yours air horns?
>Many of these accusations against the police were repeatedly posted and discussed on FR as being facts, not allegations.
Some of them were more “matter of interpretation” the siren they had on for 8 sec or so according to what I saw on the helmet cam; there are CAR ALARMS that go off longer than that.
The time from “announce’ to bust in the door is frighteningly short and indicative that they would have shot if they had seen any ‘sharp movement’... you know, like the startling event of having your door busted-down.
>I particularly like the one about the cops supposedly responding differently because the gun was on safe.
I never saw someone here saying that the cops should have acted differently because it was on safe; I *DID* see a lot of people saying that the weapon being on safe affirmatively disproves the police’s claim (at least in some of the stories) that he fired first.
>Fog of war.
War against the Citizen.
Nelson's carronades were loaded with a round shot and a barel of musket balls. Claymores are illegal for citizens to own. However, replica black powser cannon are legal. The have to be muzzle loading*, but nothing says they can't be command detonated, and they can be scaled down from the 3000lb guns of Nelson's time to something more manageable that works just about like a claymore. Just sayin'
*Not like you're going to survive long enough to reload them anyway.
There’s quite a bit of acrimony in your rant there, WKU, but you’re still bashing me as if I’m part of the problem.
I only admitted to being a go-along-to-get-along type of person. I don’t own a TV and haven’t paid for cable since I bought my own home 5 years ago. I have several antique armchairs that I reinforced and reupholstered myself that I use to sit and read my Kindle every night while drinking tea. About the only modern convenience I afford myself is my extensive computer collection, but I’m a PC gamer and a computer engineer, so that sorta fits.
Now, all of that aside, I have become an outspoken Second Amendment advocate. I taught myself reloading and gunsmithing, built my own small forge in the backyard, and I regularly refurbish curios and relics. I’m well-known in my community, active in my Homeowner’s Association, at my church, and in local politics. I voted for Ron Paul in the Primaries in 08, and that was only because I could not throw my hat in the ring for a whiny RINO regardless of how much time he spent in a Vietnamese POW camp.
As far as the 94 AWB and other things, I’m not talking out of my ass. I’ve done my fair share of research on this stuff, but I’m simply making the point that I am subject to the viewpoints of history. No one book is going to be even-handed in their assessment of the situation on the ground, and I’ve not read much about the hue and cry from those of us who care about the 2A because the media seldom reports on it.
Meanwhile, I know damn well that people like yourself were instrumental on the ground to keeping the pressure on Congress to put an expiration date on this piece of legislation, and for that, I thank you. There was a lot of arm-twisting and bullshit politics that went into passing that AWB, and I’m certain there were some less-than-legal measures attempted, some successfully. In the end, it came and went, but without Patriots like yourself and an upwelling of support from the youth such as my generation and those younger than me (I’m 31), the 2A will go the way of the dodo along with the rest of our Rights.
My biggest fear is that good men do nothing. I admit to being one of those men if for no other reason than to not be thrown in the clink or murdered by overzealous cops. One person cannot make a difference, but a few thousand armed Patriots are the reason why this country came into existence. Let’s see if there are enough of us to man up and keep it alive.
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