Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Kansas City girl, 5, may face murder charges in drowning
Reuters ^ | Jun 10, 2011 | Kevin Murphy

Posted on 06/11/2011 9:12:23 AM PDT by moonshinner_09

(Reuters) - A 5-year-old girl could face murder charges in the recent drowning of a toddler in a bathtub, police said on Thursday.

Kansas City police are waiting for a medical examiner's report on how Jermane Johnson Jr., died, but have investigated the death as a homicide, spokesman Darin Snapp said Thursday.

"I've been in law enforcement for 20 years and it's the youngest suspect I can remember," Snapp said. "It's extremely rare."

Johnson, 18 months old, was in a Kansas City house on June 3rd with other children, but the 16-year-old girl who was supposed to be looking after them fell asleep, Snapp said.

Investigators learned through interviews that a 5-year-old girl in the house got irritated at the boy, Snapp said.

"She said she got angry because he would not stop crying and she held him under the water until he stopped crying," Snapp said.

Snapp said a decision on to handle the case will be left up to prosecutors after the medical examiner's report is released.

(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; US: Kansas
KEYWORDS: kansas; kids; murder
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051 next last
This is a first for me, I never heard of a 5 year old child charged with murder.
1 posted on 06/11/2011 9:12:25 AM PDT by moonshinner_09
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: moonshinner_09

I read this earlier today. Leaving small children unattended is a crime, isn’t it? Horrible story.


2 posted on 06/11/2011 9:14:17 AM PDT by ilovesarah2012
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: moonshinner_09

Nor I. Looks like there is a very small window between the time an individual can be killed legally via abortion, and tried as a criminal.

All you newborns to 4 year olds out there reading this better enjoy your down time. After that, and before that, you are on your own.


3 posted on 06/11/2011 9:20:22 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans: Don't read their lips - watch their hands.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: moonshinner_09

They keep walking it back.

Before you know it they will have the death penalty for babies still in the womb...


4 posted on 06/11/2011 9:20:47 AM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 870 of our national holiday from reality. - Obama really isn't one of us)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ilovesarah2012
"Leaving small children unattended is a crime, isn’t it? Horrible story."

The article says there was a 16 year old left to watch them. She fell asleep though.

This is what our society is coming to, where a 5 yr. old knows how and can kill someone.

5 posted on 06/11/2011 9:20:55 AM PDT by Spunky (Accept that some days you're the pigeon, and some days you're the statue.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ilovesarah2012
"Leaving small children unattended is a crime, isn’t it? Horrible story."

The article says there was a 16 year old left to watch them. She fell asleep though.

This is what our society is coming to, where a 5 yr. old knows how and can kill someone.

6 posted on 06/11/2011 9:21:10 AM PDT by Spunky (Accept that some days you're the pigeon, and some days you're the statue.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: moonshinner_09

I can see charging the 16 year old with neglect, but the 5 year old? Way out of line. A decent defense attorney would be able to humiliate the cops and prosecutors. They may be counting on a public defender that will cop a plea.


7 posted on 06/11/2011 9:21:10 AM PDT by PAR35
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: PAR35

The 5 yr old needs counseling. A child that young is incapable of understanding the consequences of their actions. The prosecutor should be ridiculed out of office in shame.


8 posted on 06/11/2011 9:24:59 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver; PAR35

I’ve seen kids as young as 8 or 9 in DC committing petty theft, robberies, crimes of the sort.

5 years old is the new 13 years old...........


9 posted on 06/11/2011 9:27:37 AM PDT by SilvieWaldorfMD
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: SilvieWaldorfMD

Lord of the Flies stuff


10 posted on 06/11/2011 9:31:50 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: moonshinner_09

Charging a 5 yr old with murder is insane. She probably did intend to kill the younger sibling. But “intention” in a 5 yr old (as well as their understanding of death) is a little hard to define, particularly since this child probably came from a family where ethics, morality and right-and-wrong are all a bit on the fuzzy side.

It should be criminal negligence for the mother and possibly the 16 yr old, and the 5 yr old should be taken out of the home permanently and sent some place where she might learn to be a decent human being.


11 posted on 06/11/2011 9:33:38 AM PDT by livius
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: moonshinner_09

The whole business is horrible. Plenty of blame to go around.

Traditionally, at least since the early middle ages, the “age of reason” was considered to be seven. That’s why it is still customary to wait until seven for children to have their First Communion, when it is presumed that they can understand what they are doing.

On the other hand, a five-year-old certainly should not be doing something like this. You have to wonder what kind of family this is. Single mother, I would presume. Maybe a welfare mother. Maybe inner city minority, judging from the names.

No, I don’t think a murder charge will hold up. But something has to be done—God knows what.


12 posted on 06/11/2011 9:35:20 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver

She will probably get “life”.
When she turns fifteen she will be wondering what she has done.


13 posted on 06/11/2011 9:35:52 AM PDT by donhunt (I am sick and tired of those bastards insulting and lying to me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: livius

I agree with you completely.


14 posted on 06/11/2011 9:39:41 AM PDT by KansasGirl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: moonshinner_09

What I find very odd is, according to ABC news the 5 year old child, she dragged Johnson into the tub, still full of water from when the children took baths earlier that evening.Furthermore, The 16-year-old left in charge of the children reportedly had mental disabilities.
How many of you with small children would leave your kids in the care of someone whom has mental disabilities ? This home having small children in it , the babysitter left a bathtub full of water from an earlier time ? http://abcnews.go.com/US/murder-charge-considered-girl-drowned-crying-toddler/story?id=13811620


15 posted on 06/11/2011 9:39:58 AM PDT by moonshinner_09
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: moonshinner_09
Welcome to the world of Liberal Lunacy.

Photobucket

16 posted on 06/11/2011 9:40:57 AM PDT by SkyDancer (It's not the police that protect our rights, it's our military)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cicero

The children were obviously not in a stable and loving home. That is for sure. I have children in this age group, and know with out a doubt that my 2 boys would never in a million years do this to their 1 year-old sister (and they are not at the “age of reason” yet either).


17 posted on 06/11/2011 9:42:23 AM PDT by KansasGirl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver
The prosecutor should be ridiculed out of office in shame.

The key words in this "story" are may and could. The prosecutor hasn't done anything yet, and most likely won't even consider charging her with murder. Because of the death, though, the police have to treat the case as a homicide.

18 posted on 06/11/2011 9:44:38 AM PDT by Bob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: moonshinner_09

If that is the case, that the 16 year-old had learning disabilities, then the mother should be charged with a crime. AND leaving a tub with any amount of water in it when you have a toddler is a BIG no-no!

It sounds as if their is plenty of blame to go around, that is for sure. These children were not in a safe environment.


19 posted on 06/11/2011 9:45:30 AM PDT by KansasGirl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: moonshinner_09

Insanity.
5 years old is supposed to be grown up?

It’s sad, but this is just a baby, with no knowledge of society.


20 posted on 06/11/2011 9:46:41 AM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: null and void

they already have that.


21 posted on 06/11/2011 9:46:46 AM PDT by stylin19a
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: SilvieWaldorfMD

I agree.


22 posted on 06/11/2011 9:47:02 AM PDT by FrdmLvr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Bob

I agree that they have to treat it as a homicide because the 5 year-old says that she did it on purpose. It is really messed up because it does meet the definition of first degree murder, but then, the “murderer” is only 5 and not able to comprehend the consequences of their actions, in that death is final.


23 posted on 06/11/2011 9:48:08 AM PDT by KansasGirl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Bob

“Because of the death, though, the police have to treat the case as a homicide. “

eh? The police have to collect evidence and fill out the paperwork. In cases like this they don’t decide what charges to bring, the State Attorneys office does.


24 posted on 06/11/2011 9:48:25 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: KansasGirl

No one should be charged.

Its a sad one off tragedy


25 posted on 06/11/2011 9:50:26 AM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: moonshinner_09

I’m not sure one could morally hold a five-year-old child responsible for their actions... There is such a thing called the “Age of Reason” isn’t there? Can we really be sure that this poor kid really knew what they were doing??? Too many detailed factors to consider - I hope the DA and prosecutors are looking at every speck of data about this child to do what’s best for her and the community.

What a heart-breaking situation... Prayers for the childrens’ family especially.


26 posted on 06/11/2011 9:50:41 AM PDT by LibertyRocks
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: moonshinner_09

They’ll have her evaluated and determine she has mental problems. All that will come of it is a hug, an “oh, honey, you’re just too young to understand” and a few visits with a therapist. Check back when she’s 15.


27 posted on 06/11/2011 9:51:52 AM PDT by bgill (Kenyan Parliament - how could a man born in Kenya who is not even a native American become the POTUS)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: null and void

they will have the death penalty for babies still in the womb...

I thought they already had that...


28 posted on 06/11/2011 9:52:11 AM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver
Any of us with kids have had to explain the dangers of an action to a five year old child. I do not care how smart the child is, they do not grasp the finality of death. The do not even comprehend the consequences of actions.

Granted, this five year old has problems and needs something, but not a murder charge.

This weekend I watched my 2 year old granddaughter walk up behind her 5 year old brother and whop him across the back of the head. (They were fighting over a stupid toy no one wanted until the other started playing with it. It was all I could do to keep from laughing, but I didn't.) She went to time out. She's lucky—soon she could be held on assault charges.

29 posted on 06/11/2011 9:59:35 AM PDT by Protect the Bill of Rights
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver

“The prosecutor should be ridiculed out of office in shame.”

The prosecutor has not weighed in on it yet. This is the police making the charge. Often the initial charge is changed when the defendant is actually indicted. This is a case which needs to be dropped as a criminal matter. There are other means to deal with such social implosions.


30 posted on 06/11/2011 10:07:35 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans: Don't read their lips - watch their hands.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Protect the Bill of Rights

My 5-year-old sister (in 1972) grabbed a candle and set some of my 4-year-old brother’s hair on fire. My mom was there to diffuse the situation within seconds, and my brother was just startled (and, thank goodness, not hurt), but how did my sister know to do that? Up until that point, my Mom had shielded them from all things involving danger. She did tell them repeatedly not to touch the candles, and Mom was always within eyesight of the kids if any candle(s) were lit in the house.

After that incident, my Mom never bought or lit up a candle again.

My sister never really liked candles after that incident, either.


31 posted on 06/11/2011 10:12:32 AM PDT by SilvieWaldorfMD
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

Comment #32 Removed by Moderator

To: mylife

You are most likely correct.


33 posted on 06/11/2011 10:15:16 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans: Don't read their lips - watch their hands.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

The bad seed?

That movie scared the hell out of me as a kid.

That and the old man threatening to send me to reform school.

34 posted on 06/11/2011 10:28:23 AM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: mylife

She just wanted her spelling medal.


35 posted on 06/11/2011 10:40:45 AM PDT by AndrewB (FUBO)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: SilvieWaldorfMD

I’m with Silver. Original Sin. A 5 year old might not understand all the ins and outs of the law, but this child wanted to shut the baby up and understood full well that drowning would accomplish that.

Child should not be in that home.


36 posted on 06/11/2011 10:53:14 AM PDT by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver
eh? The police have to collect evidence and fill out the paperwork. In cases like this they don’t decide what charges to bring, the State Attorneys office does.

I agree. That's exactly what I was referring to as "treat the case as a homicide". Collect any evidence, prepare their report, and turn it over to the DA. The police would do that regardless of whether or not the prosecutor later decides to press charges. I never said that the police decided on the charges.

37 posted on 06/11/2011 10:57:05 AM PDT by Bob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

And she was coddled but treated as an adult.

A classic psychological study.


38 posted on 06/11/2011 10:59:18 AM PDT by mylife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: mylife

“The bad seed?”

That was my first thought. Sometimes there’s just a genetic disconnect.

(BTW, that movie scared the crap out of me, too. There was a re-make, I think, but it was mild compared to the Patty McCormack version.)


39 posted on 06/11/2011 11:05:11 AM PDT by MayflowerMadam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: moonshinner_09
How is a 5 year old supposed to know that one can be murdered in a bathtub? There are no warning signs on the bathtub.

Now, if she had used a plastic bag, then I'd say she did intend to murder because there are warnings on plastic bags suggesting suffocation.

I say it's time to sue bathtub makers for neglect. Heck, all bathtubs should go the way of the incandescent light bulb and be replaced with shower stalls (stay away from knives though...). Bathrooms should also have warning signs about the dangers of water. Instructions about draining a tub after each use should be prominently displayed. I'm not quite sure about how to handle the toilet bowl/tank situation as water is stored there.

Five year olds will obey these warnings. They know how to read and know what's right and wrong instantly. Who needs parents?

I find it the most insane suggestion to consider thinking about charging a five year old with murder.

40 posted on 06/11/2011 11:46:16 AM PDT by 1_Rain_Drop
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Protect the Bill of Rights

“...have had to explain the dangers of an action to a five year old child”

My five year old somewhat understands death but in the most basic terms. That is, she knows people die and they go to heaven. We recently found a dead bird and she assumed that it was sleeping. She was very upset to learn that the bird was dead so we had a “funeral”. I’m thinking “well, that’s over” but no. The next morning, she proclaimed that she thought the bird had awakened because she prayed to God that it would. My point is: a five year old doesn’t fully get it. Perhaps with some therapy (possibly very intensive) the five year old won’t become a future murderer. This is one strange case IMHO.


41 posted on 06/11/2011 12:09:17 PM PDT by momtothree
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: 1_Rain_Drop

I’m with you on that!

The 5 year old just wanted the baby to stop crying. The intention or knowledge of death was not there. What does a 5 year old know about dying or that one will never breath again? They don’t! The point was to stop the crying period. Not end a life.

This is just a horrible story!


42 posted on 06/11/2011 12:13:27 PM PDT by jcsjcm (This country was built on exceptionalism and individualism. In God we Trust - Laus Deo)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: 1_Rain_Drop

The 5 year old could have had several ways to infer that holding a human under water long enough would kill them, ranging from a near-fatal accident of her own or others, to seeing a scene on TV or in a magazine, and perhaps intuition (this is something that even most house cats know).


43 posted on 06/11/2011 12:14:39 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Hawk)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: KansasGirl

Sorry, I think this not being able to know death is final at 5 is a bunch of bunk. My kids understood death long before 5. I just questioned my 5 year old girl, in general, about when something dies what happens. She knows it’s final—that people and animals aren’t coming back. My kids aren’t geniuses—just average kids. Unless the girl is mentally challenged, she knows what death is. Now, what to do about her is the challenge. She can’t be treated like an adult so I’m not sure what you do with her. I doubt the government knows either.


44 posted on 06/11/2011 12:16:42 PM PDT by beaversmom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: SilvieWaldorfMD

My son knocked a nightstand over on his sister when they were both toddlers because “she smells bad”. The doctor said if it had been a half inch in either direction, she would have lost an eye or been killed.

Sister retaliated later by knocking a Snoopy bookend off a high shelf. Brother got stitches.

I’m so happy everyone is still alive.

*Sigh*


45 posted on 06/11/2011 12:30:25 PM PDT by Politicalmom ("Obama has put the wrong gas in the tank of our economy."-Herman Cain)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: MayflowerMadam

Damn creepy movie.

That and “The Nanny” The nanny was the opposite end of the spectrum. A creepy care provider dealing with abortion pitted against a very grown up and well balanced child.

Oh, Master Joey!

Scary Scary ****


46 posted on 06/11/2011 1:56:01 PM PDT by mylife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Politicalmom

WOW! That’s frightening, PoliMom!

Glad everyone’s okay...


47 posted on 06/11/2011 2:55:13 PM PDT by SilvieWaldorfMD
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: Spunky

What I don’t understand is the supposed guilt for a five year old who hasn’t reached an age of mental understanding in any court system yet there isn’t murder charge on the 16 year old who was responsible. If anyone, the 16 year old should face criminal charges, not the pre-schooler.


48 posted on 06/11/2011 3:12:49 PM PDT by tbw2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: tbw2

A 5 year old should know to wake the “adult” if a toddler is crying. If she didn’t know that, she probably didn’t know anything my or your 5 year old would know.

Guilt should be heaped on others, not that child.


49 posted on 06/11/2011 3:54:42 PM PDT by jch10 (Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

Hey everyone. Look at the article again. There are exactly 7 sentences. DON’T let this get under your skin. This type of article is printed for one purpose only — to make the Police look bad. In the first step the 5-year old knows what she did and told the investigating officer what she did and why. The officer MUST treat every unexplained death as a homicide. They do this so there is no loss of evidence. You are declaring the family an unfit family — HOW do you know this??? Maybe the mother does this to be able to put food on the table for them and a roof over their heads. What about the father??? Was he around??? You see what I mean (I hope) None of know because there are simply 7 sentences. A murder occurred. If the 16-year old has mental difficulties that does NOT mean she can not take care of the children. What KIND of mental difficulties??? Does she have ADD/ADHD? Is she developmentally disabled — this again does NOT mean she is less than a moron as is being indicated in many of your posts. Many DD people are able to carry on perfectly “normal” lives, marry, raise children, go to work the same as “normal” people. I work with the abandoned, abused & neglected children of this area (that I live) and believe me there may be 2-300 pages in the investigator’s report. I’ve seen some reports on a muder investigation over 1000 pages because of all the witnesses and the individuals involved and the video cameras that took pics of what happened. 7 sentences does not give anywhere near the complete story. This was posted here to do exactly what it did to each one of you — to incite anger against the public officials and the police. It worked!!! Everyone of you are enraged because of this child’s age. Basically that is all you thought about when you wrote your comment. My first reaction was NOT a chance are they going to do this to a 5-year old child. I’ll become involved BIG time. I went to the Major’s office with a copy of this exact article in my hand ready to beg him to get the child here where we could take care of her. He can’t because he knows some more of the facts that I don’t (neither do any of you). Please just think about what I’ve said. Go back and you will be able to count only 7 sentences. I hope each one of you have a wonderful day. May the safety of the Lord Jesus hold this family in His arms as each one must pass thru this time of grief and loss.


50 posted on 06/28/2011 10:19:51 AM PDT by Future Cop
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson