Electric cars may not be so green after all, says British study (another lib myth down the tubes)

The Australian ^ | 06/10/11 | Ben Webster

[nhwingut]

ELECTRIC cars could produce higher emissions over their lifetimes than petrol equivalents because of the energy consumed in making their batteries, a study has found.

An electric car owner would have to drive at least 129,000km before producing a net saving in CO2. Many electric cars will not travel that far in their lifetime because they typically have a range of less than 145km on a single charge and are unsuitable for long trips. Even those driven 160,000km would save only about a tonne of CO2 over their lifetimes.

The British study, which is the first analysis of the full lifetime emissions of electric cars covering manufacturing, driving and disposal, undermines the case for tackling climate change by the rapid introduction of electric cars.

[Aria]

Except the EPA is going to regulate coal out of existence.

Then what?

I’ve been to Africa...almost everyone was walking. That must be what Michelle wants for us. Walking and not enough to eat. And having to walk miles everyday just to get water. Then Obama won’t have to apologize for us anymore.

[matt04]

And how many miles can you get out of a hybrid before the battery fails?

Unlike a traditional car battery, witch can be replaced between $100-200 in just minutes, the labor and parts needed to remove and replace hybrid batteries in a high mileage car must be in the thousands. At that point, replacing the car seems like a much more likely scenario.

[Red Badger]

What we need is more people on the ‘right side’ of the bell curve instead of the ‘left’..................

[Iron Munro]

Disposal of worn out batteries for these cars is a hidden cost that will be dumped on society as the battery packs wear out.

Wait until thousands of tons of batteries hit the recyclers. The volume will dwarf a system that today is geared up to handle regular car batteries that are miniscule in comparison.

These batteries are full of acids and caustic mixtures and can’t just be split open at the junk yard to mine the lead and other metals.

Of course when it does happen, the disposal cost and pollution from these batteries will be “unexpected”.

[Eleutheria5]

You mean...energy gets consumed to generate electricity?! But...but...we don’t see the combustion, so it doesn’t exist! Quick! Somebody must inform der Fuhrer (cut to You-tube spoof).

[USFRIENDINVICTORIA]

IMHO, you're mostly right.

Where you might be wrong, is in underestimating the ability of the private sector to respond to a new revenue source. Unless government steps in to thwart them, battery recyclers will be able to match the demand. Especially considering the cost of lithium.

Of course, once government regulators (prodded by the usual enviro-fascists) get into the act; battery recyclers will be too tied up in red tape to move. Then, your scenario would be 100% correct.

[sickoflibs]

I dont care if it's really green or not, what is important is that my liberal friends think it is and I will be OK in their eyes.

Classic SP Reference : Kyle's father Gerald buys a new hybrid car (based on the Toyota Prius) and drives it all over town to show it off and gain attention. He soon decides that his commitment is not enough and starts an unwelcome campaign to convert the other townspeople to environmentally friendly vehicles. After alienating all of his friends with his preachy attitude, Randy tells Gerald that he's become so smug that he loves the smell of his own farts. After deciding he cannot live among such “backward and unsophisticated” people, Gerald decides to move his family to San Francisco.
Stan is horrified that his best friend is leaving, and tries to convince Gerald to change his mind, but Mr. Broflovski says he will not be returning until everyone feels the same way as he does about the environment
Smug Alert!(SouthPark Episode 141) !

[MAexile]

Gee what a shocker, isn’t that what we’ve been saying to these nutjobs forever?

I don't know about forever, but I do recall discussing this aspect of the problem while in college.

Twenty years ago!

[greeneyes]

Yep. The batteries can join the mercury light bulbs and create more pollution. Just another government solution where the cure is worse than the disease.

[antiRepublicrat]

The reason he buys the car is to feel good about himself for “doing something to save the erf”.

I'd like one simply because the electricity would be much cheaper than gas for my fairly short, in-city commutes and errands. At a price such as $25K for the Nissan Leaf it pretty much works out. A Honda Civic is cheaper, but gas price would offset that over several years. However, that Honda could easily last me 200K miles, which puts a dent in the calculations since there's no way the Leaf's battery will. I'm still going to wait a bit on an electric car, but I like the concept.

[Chode]

do I really have to say it???

[SERKIT]

So when our electrical prices “skyrocket” per Dear Leader, electric cars will be more expensive to use than gas cars. The next step will be mandated, overpriced, subsidized public transportation, and then a bicycle tax. It’s a brave new world, folks. Amerika is becoming a 3rd world country by design.

[familyop]

Get ready for electricity prices to “necessarily skyrocket" (Bills go up as much as 60% by 2014)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2733681/posts

[Snap!]

[CA Conservative]

I’ve been waiting for someone to bring up batteries. Not only do you have to make the chemically nasty things, but you have to dispose of them. Can you imagine how many there would be to dispose of if everyone drove electric cars?

Not only that. You also have the issue of getting the raw materials for the batteries. The US does not have large reserves of lithium and flake graphite needed to manufacture these batteries. You know who does? China. So we would be changing from a dependence on foreign oil to a dependence on foreign minerals. The difference is we could vastly reduce our dependence on foreign oil by developing our own resources - we could not reduce a dependence on foreign minerals needed for the batteries, as we do not have any significant reserves to develop.

[Nip]

People talk about the electric cars having a range of 145km between charges.

Did anyone calculate the reduction in range the first time you have to heat or cool the vehicle?

Trust me, when the outside temperature is -40 F before you add wind chill, a significant factor in a metal box, you are going to need some form of heat. As it is proven every winter in the northern tier of states using a candle for light and heat can have lethal side affects.

Trust me again, when the outside temperate is +100 F before you consider the heat index, you going to want some way of cooling the air. otherwise, the metal box you are trying to travel in turns into a slow oven.

Bottom line - the advertised 145km range of an electric vehicle assumes you are not using any other system that needs electrical power to function. You have a choice - getting home or surviving the trip. Which one do you chose?

[antiRepublicrat]

Did anyone calculate the reduction in range the first time you have to heat or cool the vehicle?

Yes. Nissan states 100 miles for the leaf, but also gives scenarios between about 60 and 150 miles for specific use cases, some of which include heavy use of heat and A/C. IIRC, the 60 mile one gave the scenario of creeping traffic jam driving in sub-freezing temperatures.

Trust me, when the outside temperature is -40 F before you add wind chill, a significant factor in a metal box, you are going to need some form of heat.

Even more than for you, you need that heat for the batteries, which will be basically dead at that temperature. One use case Nissan did not give was estimated miles when using the optional battery heater. Or maybe they did and I didn't notice since I'd never need it.

[stephenjohnbanker]

” I dont care if it’s really green or not, what is important is that my liberal friends think it is and I will be OK in their eyes. “

No sh....I mean, devoid of excrement.

[ully2]

The Greens are destroyers. The are destroying wealth, the country and worst of all they are destroying common sense.

Al Gore the destroyer.

[Impy]

Best part was that everyone in SF did like the smell of their own farts. ;-p