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Cain Is Right About Repealing Income Tax
Money News ^ | 6/13/11 | Denis Kleinfeld

Posted on 06/16/2011 9:06:56 AM PDT by justsaynomore

From the article... "There have been an endless amount of tax-reforming legislation passed into law going back for decades. All that happens is the opposite. More tax law, more special-interest group provisions, more pork, more lobbyists, more regulation, more penalties, more destruction of the U.S. trade relations, more incentive for business to move jobs or the company itself out of America, more loss of liberties of the taxpayers, and more corruption of the Congress and the President."

(Excerpt) Read more at moneynews.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Front Page News; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2012; default; economy; fairtax; globalism; hermancain; nonpolitical; politics

1 posted on 06/16/2011 9:07:03 AM PDT by justsaynomore
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To: justsaynomore

Sorry - I messed up on the title, it should read “Cain Is Right About Repealing Income Tax”


2 posted on 06/16/2011 9:09:55 AM PDT by justsaynomore (http://www.arealleader.com)
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To: justsaynomore

The title makes this post look like a hit piece on Herman Cain.

How’d you manage that?


3 posted on 06/16/2011 9:19:10 AM PDT by Mobties (Reduce the government footprint! Let the markets work!)
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To: Mobties

The hit piece will come with the parade of disgruntled ex-employees on 60 Minutes telling us all how Herman was running a sweat shop.


4 posted on 06/16/2011 9:22:05 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: justsaynomore

Suggest you pull the post and start over.


5 posted on 06/16/2011 9:22:05 AM PDT by Truth29
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To: Mobties

It was my mistake and I’ve already asked the mods to fix it. The title should read: “Cain Is Right About Repealing Income Tax’

The title I posted is from another article, and no, it’s not a hit piece: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2734867/posts


6 posted on 06/16/2011 9:22:57 AM PDT by justsaynomore (http://www.arealleader.com)
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To: justsaynomore

Can you pull an article on FR? I’ve never seen a feature for that.


7 posted on 06/16/2011 9:24:15 AM PDT by justsaynomore (http://www.arealleader.com)
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To: justsaynomore

Hit “Report Abuse” on yourself to flag the message, and include your comments for modification/pulling in the form.


8 posted on 06/16/2011 9:25:46 AM PDT by kevkrom (Imagine if the media spent 1/10 the effort vetting Obama as they've used against Palin.)
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To: kevkrom

I DID that already.


9 posted on 06/16/2011 9:26:43 AM PDT by justsaynomore (http://www.arealleader.com)
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To: justsaynomore
Herman Cain

born December 13, 1945 in Memphis, TN (Meets the Jus Soli Requirement)

Parents were
Luther Cain Jr., born March 16, 1925 in TN, died March 29, 1982 in Atlanta, GA
Lenora Davis, born July 27, 1925 in GA, died August 20, 2005 in Atlanta, GA

Both parents were US Citizens at the time of his birth (Meets the Jus Sanguinis Requirement)

Herman Cain is a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN

Barry Soetoro aka Barack Hussein Obama ISN'T!

”Herman

10 posted on 06/16/2011 9:27:59 AM PDT by ASA Vet (Natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. De Vattel)
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To: justsaynomore

Oh well, I’ll just post a new one.


11 posted on 06/16/2011 9:28:10 AM PDT by justsaynomore (http://www.arealleader.com)
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To: justsaynomore
Important quote from the article:

Our presidents since Eisenhower and through President Obama have never met a spending opportunity they didn't like. The income tax system allows the Congress and the administration virtually unrestricted access to all of your money. If you protest too much, then they have self-righteously given themselves the ability to levy onerous penalties or destroy your business, or rather easily put you in prison.

The result is that the income tax system has facilitated our public servants — Congress and the administration — to become unaccountable mandarins, ruling the United States rather than serving the people.

12 posted on 06/16/2011 9:57:31 AM PDT by FReepaholic (Land of the free my @ss)
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To: justsaynomore

If Cain is serious about this, he needs to have drafted and heavily vetted, “tandem” resolutions, sent out to the individual States for debate, to poll their interest.

The first resolution would be the repeal of the 16th Amendment, The Income Tax, importantly along with all of its “enabling acts”, the tax laws and courts based on the 16th Amendment.

The second resolution, for his new tax, would have to be written in such a way that it is absolutely *dependent* on the passage of the first resolution as a constitutional amendment, before it could be passed.

If it wasn’t written precisely that way, sure as a gun the US would end up with *both* an Income Tax *and* a consumption tax.

And the third thing he would have to do, which would be the hardest of all, would be to write new enabling legislation for the new tax.

This is because, by themselves, constitutional amendments have no force until enabling laws are written about them. And even if an amendment is well written, if its enabling laws are not up to snuff, the amendment is fairly useless.

The best example of this was the 18th Amendment, the Prohibition of Alcohol. It was clear and precise, but by the time the enabling laws were written, enthusiasm had cooled, so congress made the enabling laws very weak—too weak to make prohibition work.

And though it quickly became a joke, it still took 14 years to repeal the 18th Amendment with the 21st Amendment.

Once Cain was to do this, there will be a huge amount of debate on the subject, because in truth, the US has *never* had a good means of funding the federal government.

Importantly, Cain’s idea of a consumption tax may be a good one. But it must take into account the known “perfidies”, of how politicians subvert the law to achieve very different ends.

For example, who sets the rates for consumption? And *how* are those rates set and changed? Obama would likely declare a 10,000,000% tax on coal, because he has the stated goal of destroying the coal industry.

Could the rates be changed by congress by a voice vote at 2am on a Saturday morning? By the decision of unelected bureaucrats? And what if what is consumed is bought outside of the US, such as fuel, pharmaceuticals, and luxury items?

The devils are in the details, and as has been demonstrated by the Income Tax, the devils are not just legion, but Corps, Army Group, or Theater in number.


13 posted on 06/16/2011 10:27:22 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: FReepaholic

Enslaved.


14 posted on 06/16/2011 10:31:07 AM PDT by Soothesayer9
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To: ASA Vet

.

Bump for Herman Cain.

.


15 posted on 06/16/2011 11:18:30 AM PDT by LucyT
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To: LucyT

bttt


16 posted on 06/16/2011 11:19:24 AM PDT by ConservativeMan55
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To: LucyT

bump for Cain!!!


17 posted on 06/16/2011 11:19:50 AM PDT by ConservativeMan55
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To: justsaynomore

That’s a good start. Now let’s talk about repealing property tax, capital gains tax, estate tax, taxes on dividends and interest, etc.


18 posted on 06/16/2011 11:32:51 AM PDT by SVTCobra03 (You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Excellent post.

I am convinced that the stealth reason for people’s fondness for the “Fair Tax” is not because is would be simpler way to fund the government but that it would be more apparent. With taxes being taken out of paychecks folks don’t have their noses rubbed in just how much the government costs. A sales tax would be more obvious display of federal bloat.

Your points give us a fine picture how high the hurdles will be in adopting the Fair Tax and the avenues for excess and corruption that we’ll encounter should we try to go that way.

I would like to see us discuss instead how much we should be spending on government in toto rather than what method is used for tax collection.


19 posted on 06/16/2011 11:57:20 AM PDT by UnChained (The "stimulus" CAUSED the economy to tank.)
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To: UnChained

“I would like to see us discuss instead how much we should be spending on government in toto rather than what method is used for tax collection.”

Tax collection - government spending.

Two separate issues - both need to be discussed.

The present system, income tax, punishes work, investment, savings, and takes away our freedom, liberty, and privacy.


20 posted on 06/16/2011 12:33:04 PM PDT by redinIllinois (Pro-life, accountant, gun-totin' grandma - multi issue voter)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

It’s not an idea that Herman Cain just thought up in his head, but he has such an incredible grasp of math, the economy, and real life, so he can see that it would be a huge boost to the economy.

It is the most thoroughly researched tax reform plan in recent history.

The legistlation has already been written, HR 25.

You bring up a lot of good points, and I think you can find most of the answers at the Fairtax website.

This is their Frequently Asked Questions page:

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_faq

It has links to the legislation, and more information.

And Brookhaven has an awesome site with lots of info about Herman Cain.

This is from his site:

Consider the following facts about Herman Cain:

* Bachelor’s degree in Mathematics
* Master’s degree in Computer Science
* Mathematician for the Navy (missile ballistics, literally a rocket scientist)
* Data systems analyst for Coca-Cola
* Various IT positions at Pillsbury, culminating with VP in charge of corporate data systems
* All accomplished before the age of 35

Before he was CEO of Godfather’s Pizza, before he was chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City, before he was a bestselling author and leadership guru, and before he was on the radio, Herman Cain was a nerd.

This site was established to promote Herman Cain for president by informing the world of Herman Cain’s extensive background.

And what a background he has. Herman Cain has the most diverse and impressive background of anyone that has run for the presidency in the last 50 years, yet this fact is being ignored by the media as they stereotype him as “the pizza guy.” We’re going to change that.

Brookhaven’s site is:

http://www.nerds4cain.com/

I hope lots of people check it out.


21 posted on 06/16/2011 12:56:01 PM PDT by redinIllinois (Pro-life, accountant, gun-totin' grandma - multi issue voter)
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To: justsaynomore

The desired VAT tax is not the answer, either. Nor are increased property taxes. The opportunity presented by default will be the way to the answer.


22 posted on 06/16/2011 4:38:42 PM PDT by familyop ("Dry land is not just our destination, it is our destiny!" --"Deacon," "Waterworld")
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To: justsaynomore

Pinganator!

HC News articles today:

Herman Cain to attend Glenn Beck’s Jerusalem rally
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2735604/posts

Cain Corner 6/15/11: To Know Him Is to Love Him II
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2735114/posts

Islamophobia on parade at GOP debate (waah, now the libs attack Cain)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2735099/posts

Did Herman Cain turn around Godfather’s Pizza?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2734867/posts

Cain, Pawlenty To Sign the Strong America Now Pledge to Reduce Waste in Government
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/cain-pawlenty-to-sign-the-strong-america-now-pledge-to-reduce-waste-in-government-124000329.html

Also, interesting endorsement from Dale Peterson:

Fellow Patriots, Tonight I made a major announcement, an announcement that after much thought, observation and consideration, and given the state of our country, I felt comfortable making. Tonight during my speech at the Republican Leadership Confere...nce I announced my support of Non-Politician, but astute Bus...inessman, Herman Cain for President of the United States of America. As CEO of America, Herman Cain will have the business sense and the proven business experience to turn around and save from bankruptcy the largest corporation in the world – and the greatest nation on Planet Earth. Liberal media would like us to believe that America is an entitled nation. That’s 180 degrees away from what America is about. America is a privileged nation, and we will NOT allow our great country to sink into entitlement, no matter how much the liberal spin tries to take us there. Politicians, and ONLY politicians, got America into this mess, so it is insane to think by electing professional politicians over and over and over again somehow MIRACULOUSLY, the same old professional politicians are going to get us out of this mess. They are NOT - because they do not have ONE LICK OF BUSINESS SENSE That is precisely why America is now on life support. I was my honored honor to endorse Herman Cain and I look forward to traveling around this country in the months ahead to let everyone know why I support him. America is PAST ready for a President with business experience and a Presidential team with business experience. Fortunately for America, Herman Cain has stepped up to the plate. It’s time to put AMERICA FIRST and I believe Herman Cain will do just that. For more information on Herman Cain please visit his website, http://www.hermancain.com/ or his facebook page, http://www.facebook.com/THEHermanCain God Bless, - Dale Peterson


23 posted on 06/16/2011 8:12:47 PM PDT by justsaynomore (http://www.arealleader.com)
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To: K-oneTexas; Tucker822; Kartographer; freekitty; carmody; Dead Corpse; MsLady; Publius772000; ...

Sorry, I just pinged myself (I think that’s illegal in some states). Anyway, please see the post above :-)

Another article to add:

Herman Cain: Obama’s NLRB ‘A Direct Assault on the Free Market System’

http://honkiesforherman.us/blog/2011/06/16/herman-cain-obamas-nlrb-a-direct-assault-on-the-free-market-system/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+HonkiesForHerman2012+%28Honkies+For+Herman+2012%29&utm_content=My+Yahoo


24 posted on 06/16/2011 8:23:34 PM PDT by justsaynomore (http://www.arealleader.com)
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To: K-oneTexas; Tucker822; Kartographer; freekitty; carmody; Dead Corpse; MsLady; Publius772000; ...

Sorry, I just pinged myself (I think that’s illegal in some states). Anyway, please see the post above :-)

Another article to add:

Herman Cain: Obama’s NLRB ‘A Direct Assault on the Free Market System’

http://honkiesforherman.us/blog/2011/06/16/herman-cain-obamas-nlrb-a-direct-assault-on-the-free-market-system/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+HonkiesForHerman2012+%28Honkies+For+Herman+2012%29&utm_content=My+Yahoo


25 posted on 06/16/2011 8:24:34 PM PDT by justsaynomore (http://www.arealleader.com)
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To: justsaynomore

Cain grassroots sites (four of these are by FReepers)

The Cain 2012 Daily
http://paper.li/susan52/1306352914

Nerds 4 Cain
http://www.nerds4cain.com

Educators for Cain
http://www.wix.com/mbdam123/educatorsforcain

Elect Cain
http://www.draftcain.org

Cain Forum
http://cain4pres.americantalk.net/

Citizens4Cain
http://www.citizens4cain.com

And don’t miss the Cain networking site, similar to Facebook, but just for Cainiacs: http://hermancain.wildfireplatform.com/an/landin


26 posted on 06/16/2011 8:45:20 PM PDT by justsaynomore (http://www.arealleader.com)
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To: DickBrannigan; txhurl; sneakers; PATRIOT1876; Lucky2; Erik Latranyi; taraytarah; GYPSY286; ...
Ping...let me know if you want on or off this Herman Cain Ping List.

Help spread the word about Herman. Post one article a day on your FaceBook page...let all your friends know it's time to raise some Cain!!

27 posted on 06/17/2011 6:57:47 AM PDT by pgkdan ( Time for a Cain Mutiny!)
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To: justsaynomore

A couple things to remember about the Fair Tax (as it relates to HC’s campaign and strategy)..

First, Cain has an economic plan based on our current tax system — so second, his Fair Tax pledge is to have a national discussion on the Fair Tax and he believes when folks understand it, they’ll demand it.

Third: it would instantly turn the USA into the world’s wealth haven. Instantly. Period. End of discussion.

Fourth: it is not simple, and it is not perfect, but it is far more simple and far more perfect than the current system.

Fifth: cannot be intelligently discussed in a single internet thread or a single Presidential debate.


28 posted on 06/17/2011 7:09:50 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (American Thinker Columnist / Rush ghost contributor)
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To: justsaynomore
I don't agree with the concept that any government has the right to know what free citizens earn or are worth.

If people want to conduct commerce in the arena provided by the government, then they should pay taxes on that service.

The whole idea that the government is allowed to look into anybody's bank account or paycheck is disgusting. I don't work for them and I sure as hell didn't marry them.

29 posted on 06/17/2011 7:13:37 AM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: taraytarah; Prov3456; paul revere is riding; Politicalmom; freedumb2003; PieterCasparzen; ...

FRmail me to get on or off the Herman Cain ping list

Herman Cain for President 2012


30 posted on 06/17/2011 11:44:44 AM PDT by kingattax (99 % of liberals give the rest a bad name)
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To: ASA Vet

NBC! Beats the top three from last time.


31 posted on 06/17/2011 12:45:02 PM PDT by bgill
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To: redinIllinois

Tax collection and government spending are the SAME issue. Even if the government uses some form of deficit spending to defer the requirement to collect taxes to match spending, the bill ultimately becomes due.

Tax collection WILL INEVITABLY match expenditures.

I have never heard it discussed whether there is any limit of how much a government SHOULD cost. Isn’t there a rationale for capping it at a certain percentage of GDP or some similar way of calculating the ceiling?

Without a cap we are destined to incrementally reach 100% with the two political parties merely fighting over the date we will reach 100%.


32 posted on 06/20/2011 7:43:58 AM PDT by UnChained (The "stimulus" CAUSED the economy to tank.)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
The 16th amendment did not allow taxes to be collected on incomes. It removed the requirement of apportionment on direct taxes. Granted, apportionment was so difficult it was essentially a ban on direct taxes but I fear that some evilly clever politician out there would find a way around the issue and the income tax, the IRS and all of the intelligence they gather on US citizens will still be in effect.

I see the best replacement as a flat 5% sales tax that would be unable to be touched, modified, or in any way jiggered with by anyone without unanimous vote of both the Congress and the Senate.

To do this the taxpaying public needs to be educated on how much is being taken from them. To do this all withholdings should be ended. The taxpayer must write a check to the state, local, and federal governments once a year. We then hold the elections the next day.

33 posted on 06/20/2011 8:02:05 AM PDT by Cowman (How can the IRS seize property without a warrant if the 4th amendment still stands?)
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