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Our Lefty Military
The New York Times ^ | Kristof | Nicholas

Posted on 06/16/2011 6:56:24 PM PDT by thesistine

Our Lefty Military By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF Published: June 15, 2011 As we search for paths out of America’s economic crisis, many suggest business as a paradigm for cutting costs. According to my back-of-the-envelope math, top C.E.O.’s earn as much as $1 a second around the clock, partly by cutting medical benefits for employees. So they must be paragons of efficiency, right? Actually, I’m not so sure. The business sector is dazzlingly productive, but it also periodically blows up our financial system. Yet if we seek another model, one that emphasizes universal health care and educational opportunity, one that seeks to curb income inequality, we don’t have to turn to Sweden. Rather, look to the United States military.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: liberalism; military; opinion
This is my first post here, though I've been reading since the 2008 elections. I came across this article and wanted to hear some opinions about the content.
1 posted on 06/16/2011 6:56:27 PM PDT by thesistine
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To: thesistine; darkwing104; SandRat; Allegra

I don’t think this argument will be very popular here...


2 posted on 06/16/2011 7:04:19 PM PDT by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: thesistine
Welcome to FR
Ya done good for a first post.
I haven't read the whole article.
I'll do that now. It looks like it might be interesting.
3 posted on 06/16/2011 7:05:42 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (Warning! This Is A Subliminal Tagline! Read it at your own risk!(Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: thesistine

This appears to be either the article or a similar one to what Mark Levin talked about on his show tonight.


4 posted on 06/16/2011 7:08:44 PM PDT by YellowRoseofTx
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To: thesistine

Predictably, Kristof doesn’t ask a critical question: would the miltary model work so well if nearly everyone it were a conscript? Also, Kristof also ignores the fact that the military cannot (and is not intended to) support itself financially. We need a vibrant private sector so we can afford an effective military.


5 posted on 06/16/2011 7:08:58 PM PDT by Huntress ("Politicians exploit economic illiteracy." --Walter Williams)
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To: thesistine
The military is not analogous to society as a whole.
6 posted on 06/16/2011 7:15:58 PM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a matter of fact, not a matter of opinion)
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To: thesistine
The military isn't a social program. What the schmuck doesn't tell you is that you have little choice on where to go. No Labor unions, little choice on medical care. Long Hours fixed pay and a good old boy system second to none. An lower pay than you civilian counterparts. Don't get me started about the VA.

You still have to pay for educational benefits and what little the armed forces chip in is taxed and everything will be controlled by a government official.

A military community without accountability is called a welfare state. An uncontrolled Military system is called a dictatorship...Take your choice schmucky.


7 posted on 06/16/2011 7:17:27 PM PDT by darkwing104 (Lets get dangerous)
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To: thesistine

Here’s the difference.

You EARN those benefits, they aren’t just given to you!


8 posted on 06/16/2011 7:19:26 PM PDT by GatorGirl (Herman Cain 2012)
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To: thesistine
Sorry, but there is a lot of wasteful spending in the military. Private businesses would go bankrupt from similar waste. I'm obviously not suggesting privatization of our military, but it might work with other agencies.
9 posted on 06/16/2011 7:19:48 PM PDT by Huskrrrr
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To: darkwing104

B U M P for intelligence


10 posted on 06/16/2011 7:21:15 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: thesistine

Odd way to start, posting a thread.


11 posted on 06/16/2011 7:25:44 PM PDT by ansel12 (America has close to India population of 1950s, India has 1,200,000,000 people now. Quality of Life?)
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To: thesistine

Yep, the military is truly socialist. I remember Wes Clark taking out his wallet every payday and giving his money to the Enlisted Soldiers just to make things fair.


12 posted on 06/16/2011 7:28:05 PM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: thesistine

He mentions the transition to VA care. He needs to do a quick google search on issues with the VA. Hell, even the VA is more concerned with pc:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110610/ap_on_he_me/us_transgender_veterans_3


13 posted on 06/16/2011 7:32:22 PM PDT by rangerwife (Proud wife of a Purple Heart Recipient)
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To: thesistine

I always find that people that think the VA is so wonderful do not nor would not use the VA.

I experienced the VA with a wounded warrior about 2 yrs. ago. I wanted to cry when I left it was horrible!


14 posted on 06/16/2011 7:40:49 PM PDT by panthermom (Pray for my son in Aghanistan and all the troops!)
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To: blueunicorn6
Hell, I never saw Wes Clark with mud on his boots when he was 1CD commander. But I saw his predecessor, MG John Tilelli, in the field often, especially for gunnery. I don't think I ever saw him without an LBE and K-pot.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

15 posted on 06/16/2011 7:43:09 PM PDT by wku man (Who says conservatives don't rock? http://www.bigdawgmusicmafia.com)
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To: thesistine

Yeah, and the military will be happy to enlist everyone from the dregs of society, ‘cause all they want is a few meals a day.

The military works because its ranks include those who are willing to fight and die for their country, or those who are willing to support that effort.

You just can’t take that model of training the willing, to recruiting the unwilling to try to fend for themselves.

I’m glad that this asshat realizes that our military is exlemplary, but certainly not for the reasons that he postulates!


16 posted on 06/16/2011 7:43:56 PM PDT by Noob1999
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To: panthermom
For the most part, you're right. I've been in the VA systems in Nashville, Salt Lake, Little Rock and Pinellas County, FL, and they were awful!. But the VA Center here in Boise is definitely a breath of fresh air. The attitude and attentiveness of the staff is a stark contrast to the lackadaisical civil servant mindset I experienced at those other centers.

Kudos to the Boise VA Center.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

17 posted on 06/16/2011 7:47:56 PM PDT by wku man (Who says conservatives don't rock? http://www.bigdawgmusicmafia.com)
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To: darkwing104

He’s ignoring several things: there is structure in the military for a reason which is self-evident and promotions are based on merit...if you’re a dirtbag, you get thrown out or don’t get promoted, etc, so color, race, creed is not the end all be all (isnt that in contrast to what libs think?); and like GatorGirl pointed out, the benefits are earned....while libs think they should just be given because they are a “right”; which brings me to another point, servicemembers give up their civil rights, a fact he also ignores. But he’s probably ok with all giving up rights if it’s for the common good anyway. I swear it’s like arguing with a stop sign when it comes to liberals.


18 posted on 06/16/2011 7:49:44 PM PDT by rangerwife (Proud wife of a Purple Heart Recipient)
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To: panthermom

The husband doesn’t use VA. He got tired of being treated like he was lying about his head nearly being blown off and lost patience, so he uses tricare. I know there are wounded troops who weren’t medically retired that don’t have a choice though. :( Prayers for your son!!


19 posted on 06/16/2011 7:57:09 PM PDT by rangerwife (Proud wife of a Purple Heart Recipient)
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To: rangerwife
One significant fact; serving your country is a sacrifice, not a business model. There is honor in protecting this country and projecting the best of America to the world.

Military service doesn't produce anything it's the only branch of government that truly protects the American people. No other office of government can honestly say that. We gave up so much for this wonderful nation and people so that everyone can enjoy freedom.

Remember, the Military defends democracy, it doesn't practice it.

The greatest gift we can give our children is they will never have to be in a position to risk their lives to protect this nation.


20 posted on 06/16/2011 8:05:54 PM PDT by darkwing104 (Lets get dangerous)
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To: darkwing104

Right on! Thank you, I could not put into words like you! Very well said!


21 posted on 06/16/2011 8:17:10 PM PDT by rangerwife (Proud wife of a Purple Heart Recipient)
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To: wku man

The Helena, Montana, facility was alright.


22 posted on 06/16/2011 8:18:59 PM PDT by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: darkwing104
Don't get me started about the VA.

When I was a child, back in the 70s, I had to go to several different hospitals for tons of medical tests. One of those was the VA hospital. It was the only hospital with a real-time X-ray machine... I got to see my own skull on a monitor screen.

That experience aside, I have always heard bad things about the VA. I suppose it's like most government service agencies--not enough customer service, and too many people trying to get the service.

23 posted on 06/16/2011 8:38:35 PM PDT by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

“The military is not analogous to society as a whole.”

THIS! IS! (not) SPARTAAAAAA!!!!


24 posted on 06/16/2011 8:55:38 PM PDT by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans: Don't read their lips - watch their hands.)
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To: thesistine; Grizzled Bear
“It’s the purest application of socialism there is,” Wesley Clark, the retired four-star general and former supreme allied commander of NATO forces in Europe, told me.

Ugh....the Weasel would say something like that.

And the article crows about how the military "knits together" all of these differences races and social backgrounds, but believe me, there is every bit as much clannishness in the military as there is in civilian life.

Attend any holiday gathering downrange and you'll see the blacks all off at one table, Asians at another and other clicques forming along racial lines.

I admire and support our armed forces and am very, very grateful for them and for what they do, but the utopia described in this article is no closer to reality than the utopia the liberals envision in other aspects of our society.

25 posted on 06/16/2011 9:01:59 PM PDT by Allegra (Hey! Stop looking at my tagline like that.)
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To: Allegra

I’ve always hung out with a lot of different nationalities. I never caught any grief from the other white guys; but my friends would often catch flack from the latinos, blacks or asians for hanging with a mixed crowd. Fortunately, my friends share my attitude in which I refuse to suffer the presence of idiots.

;-)


26 posted on 06/16/2011 9:08:24 PM PDT by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: Allegra

I’ve always hung out with a lot of different nationalities. I never caught any grief from the other white guys; but my friends would often catch flack from the latinos, blacks or asians for hanging with a mixed crowd. Fortunately, my friends share my attitude in which I refuse to suffer the presence of idiots.

;-)


27 posted on 06/16/2011 9:08:27 PM PDT by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: Allegra

I never saw that in my career. It happened alot in the support MOSes I saw, from the outside. But in Combat Arms units that I was in, we never had a problem with it.


28 posted on 06/16/2011 9:37:50 PM PDT by dave.gillam
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To: thesistine

I bet I can find an article two that has Kristof bitching about the cost of the DoD socialism.


29 posted on 06/16/2011 9:57:22 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Join the AFL-CIO. The Communist Party needs new blood.)
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To: Allegra; unkus

As I’ve posted here in the past, there were race riots in the rear during the Nam... At times it was safer in the bush with the dinks!


30 posted on 06/16/2011 10:28:07 PM PDT by JDoutrider
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To: panthermom

When I first moved to Maine, I was asked if I would sign up at the VA. I replied when I’m dead take me there. They can’t make it any worse.

Not 2 months later I broke a foot and ended up at Togus VA.

I’ve experienced 7 VA hospitals, 5 Military hospitals, and 3 civilian hospitals in my life. I’ve never been treated better than at Togus for the past ten years.


31 posted on 06/17/2011 4:41:12 AM PDT by maine yankee
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To: maine yankee

I was taking my friend to the one in Atlanta, horrible. We had to arrive 4 hrs. BEFORE appt. time to make sure we got a parking space. Once there, I walked through those doors and I thought I would scream. There were patients EVERYWHERE! In wheelchairs just shoved in corners. There was a line for Diabetes treatment, the line stretched as far as I could see.

My friend had been hit with an IED, had spinal injury and a TBI, after being seen and being prescribed even more drugs, it was another 3 hr. wait in the pharmacy.

He has had one spinal surgery and was told he must have another one or eventually he would suffer paralysis, he was scheduled for the surgery and it was cancelled by the VA because the Dr. was fired and he would have to get on the list again!!!!


32 posted on 06/17/2011 4:54:05 AM PDT by panthermom (Pray for my son in Aghanistan and all the troops!)
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To: thesistine
The business sector is dazzlingly productive, but it also periodically blows up our financial system.

Not True!

Every single time our financial sector blew up it was the government and banks behind it.

When a writer thinks the most stunning achievement of the American military is its day care program, we can expect BS like this.

Finally, the author lists all kinds of reasons people stay in the military when they could be making more in the private sector, all of them coming from a socialist viewpoint, but neglects the most important reason - a sense of duty to ones country.

33 posted on 06/17/2011 5:13:31 AM PDT by CharacterCounts (November 4, 2008 - the day America drank the Kool-Aid)
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To: wku man; panthermom
Kudos to the Boise VA Center.

You shouldn't have posted this comment. Someone from the VA bureaucracy might see it and decide to send in some experts to study and "fix" the problem... /s

34 posted on 06/17/2011 5:26:53 AM PDT by tarheelswamprat
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Mark Levin talked in detail about a retired policeman and what he and his wife got as union members. Mark reads an e-mail form a retired police officer who exposes the corruption. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDyR1RdV1zM


35 posted on 06/17/2011 5:43:32 AM PDT by anglian
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