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North Korea Tests 'Super-EMP' Nuke
Newsmax ^ | Thursday, 16 Jun 2011 09:05 AM | Ken Timmerman

Posted on 06/20/2011 10:09:45 AM PDT by justlittleoleme

North Korea’s last round of tests, conducted in May 2009, appear to have included a “super-EMP” weapon, capable of emitting enough gamma rays to disable the electric power grid across most of the lower 48 states, says Dr. Peter Vincent Pry, a former CIA nuclear weapons analyst and president of EMPact America, a citizens lobbying group.

Samore, who handles arms control and non-proliferation issues, warned that “additional strong sanctions will be imposed on the North with the support of Russia and China."

North Korea’s nuclear tests have been dismissed as failures by some analysts because of their low explosive yield. But Dr. Pry believes they bore the “signature” of the Russian-designed “super-EMP” weapon, capable of emitting more gamma radiation than a 25-megaton nuclear weapon.

Rep. Trent Franks, who authored the SHIELD Act, warned of “catastrophic consequences” should Congress fail to act.

“The U.S. society and economy are so critically dependent upon the availability of electricity that a significant collapse of the grid, precipitated by a major natural or man-made EMP event, could result in catastrophic civilian casualties,” he said. “This vulnerability, if left unaddressed, could have grave, societal altering consequences.”

(Excerpt) Read more at newsmax.com ...


TOPICS: Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: bomb; economy; emp; northkorea; shtf; superemp; survival; teotwawki
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1 posted on 06/20/2011 10:09:49 AM PDT by justlittleoleme
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To: justlittleoleme

SFL


2 posted on 06/20/2011 10:11:56 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (The USSR spent itself into bankruptcy and collapsed -- and aren't we on the same path now?)
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To: justlittleoleme
capable of emitting enough gamma rays to disable the electric power grid across most of the lower 48 states

I hope that's an exaggeration.

3 posted on 06/20/2011 10:12:50 AM PDT by camerongood210 ( Matthew 24)
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To: justlittleoleme

The EMP is a great ‘first strike’ weapon.

During a possible conflict, any site capable of launching such a weapon would be destroyed during the fueling stages. This is a weapon you launch to start an offensive; not after a conflict has been engaged.


4 posted on 06/20/2011 10:12:55 AM PDT by Hodar (Who needs laws .... when this "feels" so right?)
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To: justlittleoleme

So....where, exactly, did they test it?
Confirmation of such via what?


5 posted on 06/20/2011 10:15:26 AM PDT by cranked
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To: justlittleoleme
“This vulnerability, if left unaddressed, could have grave, societal altering consequences.”

Like soetoro.

6 posted on 06/20/2011 10:18:09 AM PDT by onedoug (If)
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To: justlittleoleme

Send Jimmy Carter with check book ASAP>


7 posted on 06/20/2011 10:18:12 AM PDT by Broker (Mabuhay!)
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To: Hodar
During a possible conflict, any site capable of launching such a weapon would be destroyed during the fueling stages.

That's nice. How?

If the Norks wanted to first strike us, all they'd have to do is tell us the rocket they were about to launch was "just a harmless test". They launch it...and by the time we realize what they've done, it's too late. POP! and the entire electrical grid, as well as all the computers and fancy-dancy electronic stuff we rely on...gone.

8 posted on 06/20/2011 10:19:54 AM PDT by hoagy62 (Help stamp out crack-pull up your pants.)
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To: camerongood210
I hope that's an exaggeration.

It may not be, but the statement could also be read as an indictment of the condition of our power grid. This administration seems to have made every effort to get as many power plants off the grid as possible, and make it as difficult as possible to add new ones, so it might not take much to bring the whole grid down.

9 posted on 06/20/2011 10:22:20 AM PDT by tacticalogic
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To: justlittleoleme

Next, North Korea plans to develop an electrical grid to test the weapon.


10 posted on 06/20/2011 10:24:14 AM PDT by Nachoman (Wisdom is learned, cynicism is earned.)
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To: hoagy62
such a weapon would be destroyed during the fueling stages

if it's a solid fuel missile, that implies bombing the factory...

11 posted on 06/20/2011 10:26:15 AM PDT by glorgau
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To: Hodar

First strike? It is a single strike weapon. The grid goes down and there is chaos. It would take years to recover.

Life expectancy would drop to 1850’s levels.


12 posted on 06/20/2011 10:27:32 AM PDT by Vermont Lt (Is there anyone that Obama won't toss under the bus?)
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To: justlittleoleme

Dr. Peter Vincent Pry, a former CIA nuclear weapons analyst and president of EMPact America,

Says it all! I can see those contracts rolling in.


13 posted on 06/20/2011 10:27:45 AM PDT by satan (Plumbing new depths of worthlessness on a daily basis.)
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To: onedoug

Just think.... they could reduce us to a turd world islamic state before Obama....


14 posted on 06/20/2011 10:27:45 AM PDT by himno hero ("Armageddon is well seeded, America will pay"... Barrack Obama's vision)
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To: hoagy62

Ever watch the fueling of the Apollo rockets during the Moon launch days? Notice the frost and ice, amidst the fog? When you fill a rocket, there is a pressure change as you are filling a volume (P=nVRT).

The Vessel will get cold.

We can see that; just like they can see ours.


15 posted on 06/20/2011 10:32:05 AM PDT by Hodar (Who needs laws .... when this "feels" so right?)
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To: justlittleoleme

You mean they finally got something better than a fizzle with their nukes?


16 posted on 06/20/2011 10:32:58 AM PDT by Little Ray (Best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: justlittleoleme

I wonder what Dumbo might suggest?

Apologize for America

Ask Holder to look into this

Surrender

Demand North Korea hire our unemployed to help out?

Take out a Mullah


17 posted on 06/20/2011 10:33:12 AM PDT by SanFranDan
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To: camerongood210
We've known about EMP's for some time - and have done absolutely NOTHING to protect ourselves...

Ask yourself, what would happen to our nuclear power plants in an EMP attack? I'll go with total meltdown - across the country.

18 posted on 06/20/2011 10:34:44 AM PDT by GOPJ (In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act. - - Orwell)
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To: justlittleoleme

*


19 posted on 06/20/2011 10:34:53 AM PDT by PMAS
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To: Hodar

Oh, I understand that...what I wonder is: How do we know WHAT is in the payload? If they’ve got one of these ‘super-EMP’ weapons, how do we know? It might be a harmles dummy payload, or it might be a USA-ending weapon. How would we know?


20 posted on 06/20/2011 10:38:45 AM PDT by hoagy62 (Help stamp out crack-pull up your pants.)
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To: justlittleoleme

Read :
“ONE SECOND AFTER” By WILLIAM R. FORSTCHEN

Chilling......


21 posted on 06/20/2011 10:44:09 AM PDT by Robe (Rome did not create a great empire by talking, they did it by killing all those who opposed them)
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To: justlittleoleme

Interesting book, although the author is not the best storyteller. Doesn't understand that good writing is about showing, not telling. Misses several key opportunities to hit this one out of the park.

22 posted on 06/20/2011 10:44:52 AM PDT by bolobaby
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To: justlittleoleme
A good novel on the possible after effects of an EMP strike..


23 posted on 06/20/2011 10:48:09 AM PDT by Jaxter ("Pro Aris et Focis")
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To: Vermont Lt
Life expectancy would drop to 1850’s levels.

Actually it would be lower. In the 1850s, people had the skills, knowledge and infrastructure to live in a functioning 1850s level society.

Not too many 21st century Americans and Europeans would have the slightest idea how to get food and shelter if there was a sudden permanent loss of access to electricity. Moreover, the breakdown of society would mean that there would be no recognized private property, other than what people could take and protect by their own use of force.

To say nothing of the loss of respect for one another and work ethic that characterized what was then a largely Judeo-Christian society.

I know we have an abundance of hearty, self-sufficient, gun-toting, food growing Freepers (alas, I am not one), but everyone else would essentially be screwed.

24 posted on 06/20/2011 10:48:22 AM PDT by Maceman (Obama: As American as nasei goreng)
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To: justlittleoleme
"Samore, who handles arms control and non-proliferation issues, warned that “additional strong sanctions will be imposed on the North with the support of Russia and China.""

US TOLD TO LEAVE CENTRAL ASIA [Russia & China demand "deadline."]
SBS (AU) ^ | 06JUL05 | SBS
Posted on Wed 06 Jul 2005 12:49:21 AM MST by familyop

Excerpt:
"The presidents of the six-nation Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO), which comprises Russia, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan and China, signed a declaration calling for deadlines to be set on the closure of airbases used by US forces in Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan."

Putin: Russia Building Nuclear Weapon U.S. Won't Have
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1282021/posts

Russia says new Topol RS-12 mobile ICBM can evade U.S. missile defense
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1513904/posts


25 posted on 06/20/2011 10:48:58 AM PDT by familyop (Rome was burned in a day--twice.)
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To: bolobaby

Dang, you beat me.


26 posted on 06/20/2011 10:49:09 AM PDT by Jaxter ("Pro Aris et Focis")
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To: justlittleoleme

If China really wanted to screw us, they would tell Little Kim to launch the EMP. He gives the order from a helicopter heading to the Chinese border. So we nuke North Korea, so what? China can toss a nuke at us via their proxy, and then have plausible deniability against retaliation.


27 posted on 06/20/2011 10:49:39 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 ("It is only when we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything" -- Fight Club)
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To: GOPJ

Ask yourself, what would happen to our nuclear power plants in a lightening strike?

Keyword: electronic circuit breaker

Nuke plants should be very well protected from gamma due to all the rebar and metal in the outer buildings. The control systems would essentially be protected by multiple Faraday cages.


28 posted on 06/20/2011 10:51:25 AM PDT by Justa
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To: GOPJ
Ask yourself, what would happen to our nuclear power plants in an EMP attack? I'll go with total meltdown - across the country.

A very interesting question. At Fukushima, I think the earthquake didn't do anything really massive to the nuclear plants. And I think the tsunami didn't do anything really massive to the nuclear plants. But those events did create a power outage and the power outage led to meltdowns.

I don't think Japan expected such a turn of events, and it is not clear to me that America has either.

29 posted on 06/20/2011 10:51:28 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (The USSR spent itself into bankruptcy and collapsed -- and aren't we on the same path now?)
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To: sneakers

EMP bump


30 posted on 06/20/2011 10:51:31 AM PDT by sneakers ("Obama is like the dog that chased a car and caught it. Now he doesn't know what to do with it.")
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To: Nachoman

EMP is well known and measurable. They don’t need to build a grid to test it.


31 posted on 06/20/2011 10:52:51 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: GOPJ

All our serious enemies (Iran, NK, Chavez, Castro,...) understand that successfully delivering a high EMP yield weapon would be a knockout blow. We would be left with our submarines. They could destroy all our enemies. That should be made clear to the Russians and Chinese. They may be able to knock out our electric grid, but they will have nothing left but smoldering craters.


32 posted on 06/20/2011 10:57:41 AM PDT by ZeitgeistSurfer
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To: PapaBear3625
Interesting scenario. Except the Chicoms lose their best customer. Their US treasuries are worthless. Their export business is gone. Their economy is toast. Their people starve, rioting and pillaging before they do. Then the US retaliates and wipes them out. Its a lose/lose.
33 posted on 06/20/2011 10:58:15 AM PDT by Former Proud Canadian (We .. have a purpose .. no longer to please every dictator with a vote at the UN. PM Harper)
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To: camerongood210
I hope that's an exaggeration.

I doubt it.

Keep in mind, that North Korea is a proxy for the Chinese military, which is drooling at the prospect of attacking the U.S....but doesn't want to be counter-attacked. Hence the use of a decoy nation. Which we have been altogether too lame about accepting as an "independent" just regarding it as a "friend" of China's.... not the puppet it is.

We should be telling the Chicoms that if North Korea attacks us...they will be held directly responsible...first and foremost.

34 posted on 06/20/2011 10:59:00 AM PDT by Paul Ross (Ronald Reagan-1987:"We are always willing to be trade partners but never trade patsies.")
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To: Hodar

Uh...That should be PV=nRT. And the frost you see on those rockets comes from the liquid oxygen and/or liquid hydrogen part of the propellant.


35 posted on 06/20/2011 10:59:12 AM PDT by hellbender
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To: Vermont Lt

“Life expectancy would drop to 1850’s levels.”

It would be WAY less than 1950’s levels, since all the survival/farming/hunting skills have been lost. PLUS, with no electricy to refrigerate food, or run gas pumps, etc., mass STARVATION would ensue in just WEEKS! The few remaining would ENVY the people of Angola!


36 posted on 06/20/2011 11:00:24 AM PDT by 2harddrive
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To: Hodar
There are at least two errors in your post.

1) The Apollo rockets used LOX/Kerosene for the first stage, and LOX/LH2 for the second and third stages. LOX and LH2 frost the vents on their containers when filled, because LOX and LH2 are COLD. LOX ~ 90K, LH2 ~ 20K. The frost has nothing to do with pressure changes while filling a volume.

2) The North Korean Taepodong missile is powered by nitric acid/kerosene. Neither of these is cold, but both are liquid. There may be detectable venting of gases, but it won't be the frost and fog of a Saturn V.

3) US ballistic missiles (currently Minuteman III and Trident II) are solid fueled.

37 posted on 06/20/2011 11:03:22 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: GOPJ

Most likely nothing would happen to the nuke plant itself. They would lose the external infrastructure such as transformers, generators, and other devices which are not protected. They’ll be forced to shutdown though as the system to distribute the electricity would be heavily damaged.


38 posted on 06/20/2011 11:05:42 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: hoagy62

I would guess that there would be some radio chatter ... but in an ideal execution - we wouldn’t know until our lights went out.


39 posted on 06/20/2011 11:06:02 AM PDT by Hodar (Who needs laws .... when this "feels" so right?)
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To: justlittleoleme
This is a very difficult weapon to create and to implement... and I do not believe that they could field this weapon unless the chicoms gave them an operational copy of ours that they either stole from us or that clinton sold or gave to them.

LLS

40 posted on 06/20/2011 11:13:23 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer ("GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH"! I choose LIBERTY and PALIN!)
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To: justlittleoleme

S. Korean Lawmaker, “Russia might have given N. Korea know-how of miniature nukes”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1717327/posts

WikiLeaks: North Korea Shipped 19 Advanced Nuclear-Capable Missiles to Tehran
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2634540/posts


41 posted on 06/20/2011 11:15:06 AM PDT by familyop (Rome was burned in a day--twice.)
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To: Vermont Lt

And the life expectancy in nork would be under 15 minutes when Boomers retaliate. So yeah it’s a first strike weapon.


42 posted on 06/20/2011 11:17:24 AM PDT by Kozak ("It's not an Election it's a Restraining Order" .....PJ O'Rourke)
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To: justlittleoleme

I saw one of those military tv shows saying that a EMP burst in the air, I forget the exact altitude, could essentially turn the lower 48 states into the Dark Ages over night. You can protect your stuff with faraday cages but they are pretty expensive. Just imagine the chaos that would ensue if the lights everywhere suddenly went off.


43 posted on 06/20/2011 11:23:01 AM PDT by eak3
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To: Hodar

This is why the administration is talking to google. Google wants to connect us all to an electrical grid so our electricity can be monitored and rationed down the road.

By doing that, a smaller weapon could fry the grid. They wouldn’t have to launch something to impact the entire country. Feasible it could be done by sabotage of a few monitoring locations.

China could already knock out satellites. A coordinated attack that blinds us and then hits selected targets has the same impact and it could be brought back relatively quickly.


44 posted on 06/20/2011 11:23:10 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (Sarah Palin, the only candidate to be vetted by the NY Times, the Washington Post and NBC.)
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To: justlittleoleme; Titan Magroyne; All

A Must Read: http://www.amazon.com/Lights-Out-David-Crawford/dp/0615427359#reader_0615427359


45 posted on 06/20/2011 11:23:10 AM PDT by Drumbo ("Democracy can withstand anything but democrats." - Jubal Harshaw [Robert A. Heinlein])
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To: eak3

46 posted on 06/20/2011 11:24:59 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (The USSR spent itself into bankruptcy and collapsed -- and aren't we on the same path now?)
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To: EQAndyBuzz

The Grid is a very complex control loop. That’s why a single mishap in New York; that only affects a small sub-station can bring the entire city to it’s knees. It’s happened not that long ago.

Your point is very well taken; you don’t need to destroy a power generation system, you can unbalance the load, and cause this instability to trip safety breakers - and if you do it ‘smart’ you can bring down a huge area, for long enough to really do some damage. And the damage need not be physical, you can do a lot of damage to the morale of the population by removing something they depend upon, and take for granted.


47 posted on 06/20/2011 11:29:04 AM PDT by Hodar (Who needs laws .... when this "feels" so right?)
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To: eak3

faraday cages are not really expensive just very cumbersome. A faraday cage is just a box made out of conductive material. This prevents the electrical pulse from impacting whatever is inside.

On a small scale a simple metal box will protect small electronic items. Of course its hard to use them while they are in the box.


48 posted on 06/20/2011 11:29:53 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: eak3

A Faraday cage doesn’t have to be expensive... All you need is a wooden ammo crate, some aluminum foil, aluminum tape (used for sealing ductwork), and a ground wire. Place the items to be protected inside, cover the box with the foil, secure the foil with the aluminum tape, and then fasten the ground wire to the aluminum covering the box and then to a ground rod. It is important that you run the ground wire to a good ground, and do not use the ground circuit found in you home. Use a separate gound rod. Easy...


49 posted on 06/20/2011 11:30:02 AM PDT by Raven6 (What we need: More people that can shoot like Tennesseans and fight like Texans!)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Im confused at those alititude numbers.. its approx only 60 miles from sea level to space.. so these would be detonated from outer space??


50 posted on 06/20/2011 11:31:01 AM PDT by eak3
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