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A 'Fast and Furious' border fiasco
NY Post ^ | June 19, 2011 | Michael A. Walsh

Posted on 06/20/2011 12:05:02 PM PDT by neverdem

There's a war along the Mexican border all right, but it's not necessarily the one you're thinking of. In fact, this one has spread all the way to the halls of Congress.

This week, the Obama administration is expected to fire Kenneth Melson, the acting head of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives -- tossing him under the bus as a symbolic gesture to a congressional committee headed by Rep. Daryl Issa (R-Calif.).

Issa's Committee on Oversight and Government Reform is investigating an insane ATF operation -- a supposed sting that involved the deliberate funneling of thousands of weapons to ultra-violent Mexican drug cartels in 2009-10.

The op's name, "Fast and Furious," came from the series of movies about an undercover drag racer working for the FBI -- which gives you some idea of the lack of seriousness behind this cockamamie scam.

The Justice Department, which oversees the ATF, says the idea was to allow the sale of handguns, AK-47s and .50 caliber rifles to so-called "straw purchasers," who'd then pass them along to the cartels. In theory, ATF agents would then trace the extent of the smuggling networks in an effort to stop the illegal cross-border gun trade.

--snip--

Oops No. 2: The gangs used the weapons for what you'd expect. At least two American agents have been killed with Fast and Furious guns...

--snip--

In the meantime, ranchers have been shot and property trashed, and the lives of Border Patrol and ICE agents have been snuffed out in the line of duty.

The Issa hearings are just scratching the surface of a larger scandal -- Washington's consistent, bipartisan refusal to fulfill its constitutional duty to secure the country's borders.

(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Mexico; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: banglist; batf; bho44; bhodoj; fastandfurious; gunrunner; gunwalker; melson; projectgunwalker
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Oops No. 2: The gangs used the weapons for what you'd expect. At least two American agents have been killed with Fast and Furious guns.

I haven't seen that claim before, just that "Gun Walker" firearms were recovered at the scene.

1 posted on 06/20/2011 12:05:08 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

bump for later


2 posted on 06/20/2011 12:08:16 PM PDT by joe fonebone (Project Gunwalker, this will make watergate look like the warm up band......)
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To: neverdem

I suspect that this idiocy was approved by someone higher-up than Melson. Maybe, much higher. Is he the fall guy?


3 posted on 06/20/2011 12:09:56 PM PDT by Signalman
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To: neverdem

Looks like Melson play the sacrificial lamb in “Fast and Furious”

Let’s all hope that it’s not a role he is looking for.


4 posted on 06/20/2011 12:11:49 PM PDT by Recon Dad (Herman Cain is the man in 2012)
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To: neverdem

Took awhile but this is heating up. Zer0 is lieing, He knew. So this is a cover up as well as running guns into a friendly neighbor, murder of a US Officer, and who knows how many murders in Mexico.

Need’s to be a trial, let the cards fall as they may. Can;t get away with murder


5 posted on 06/20/2011 12:12:18 PM PDT by reefdiver ("Let His day's be few And another takes His office")
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To: Signalman

Holder, a virulant anti-2nd amendment activist, was obviously in on this from the beginning.


6 posted on 06/20/2011 12:12:27 PM PDT by Siena Dreaming
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To: neverdem

Treasonous evil - beyond the pale.


7 posted on 06/20/2011 12:12:45 PM PDT by dainbramaged (I lost my mantra around 1969.)
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To: neverdem

The MSM will not be able to ignore this one much longer, Rush was discussing it today.

Lets uncover what is under the rock and see if that is like opening a can of worms.

You know what they say about opening a can of worms don’t you? Once opened it will never go back in the same size can.


8 posted on 06/20/2011 12:13:59 PM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: neverdem
Hope Issa does not let this go. King Obama and Holder probably knew of this transfer of weapons and this could be reason for treason.
9 posted on 06/20/2011 12:14:06 PM PDT by Logical me
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To: neverdem

Not in the exerpt is that one of the USA .50’s was later used to SHOOT DOWN A MEXICAN POLICE HELICOPTER.

OK now we all knew there is a narco-state down there, sure, but you have to understand is this:

The Obama admin is apparently very good friends with the operatives of the Mexican narco-state and SUPPLIES THEM.

How would you like to be working for BP in the hot desert, with your buddies being killed by the guns your bosses provide to the enemy you’re paid to stop..?


10 posted on 06/20/2011 12:17:48 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: Logical me

What an opportunity to bring a tweeting president down.

If this was during Bush, the MSM would be calling for Bush’s head. And they would deserve to get it. The president got people killed because he was trying to get gun control n under the radar. All he did was solidify the reasons why there has to be a border wall.


11 posted on 06/20/2011 12:19:03 PM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (Sarah Palin, the only candidate to be vetted by the NY Times, the Washington Post and NBC.)
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To: neverdem

I want Melson’s ass subpeonad yesterday.


12 posted on 06/20/2011 12:19:10 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Recon Dad

Issa started lower on the totem pole as I proposed. He needs to stick to the plan and work his way up. Just ignore what higher ups Obama wants to sacrifice. The information ~ that will send people to the gurney ~ is available in the ranks and can be found by bringing in people and giving them the chance to rat out their boss’ boss.


13 posted on 06/20/2011 12:23:06 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: neverdem

Obama and Holder both knew perfectly well what they were doing. That’s why Obie posed with the President of Mexico while he accused the U.S. of supplying guns to the drug cartels.

And Hillary is in this up to her eyebrows, as well. She was the one who spent the most time telling the media that Mexican gun violence was the fault of American arms dealers.

It has nothing to do with nailing the drug cartels. It has everything to do with lying and propaganda, working closely with the MSM, in order to take down the Second Amendment.

There is no other possible reason for doing this. None. They may be stupid and incompetent, but they aren’t stupid enough to think they could ID the drug cartels by doing this.


14 posted on 06/20/2011 12:24:10 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Lurker

I agree. Subpoena Melson and put him under oath to find out who authorized this murderous program.

I can then guarantee you it will then trickle right up to the smartest president -sarc- we’ve ever had.


15 posted on 06/20/2011 12:24:26 PM PDT by Kevin in California
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To: gaijin

OK uh...let me get this right:

ATF GS-12’s took time off from the completely apolitical soft-ball game, right? So they have some free-time. And they’re chilling on some brews, these guys, and then all of a sudden they’re like:

“Why don’t we export a whole bunch of guns down to Mexico to find out who’s buying them..?”

“Well Tex, how would you track them as they were used..? GPS or what? Ya think that’ll WORK...?”

“Nah, well...they’ll get used down there, and then when they’re strewn about some narco-shoot-out then we’ll fingerprint the bodies, and then we’ll know who bought them...”

“Won’t the serial numbers be off, by that point? You think they’ll be easy to trace...?”

“Well....some might still have those numbers. Some, sure...”

PLAUSIBLE? NOT IN A MILLION YEARS..!

“Never let an Emergency go to waste....”

There was no emergency of the type they felt needed, and when they saw that they ***MADE*** the emergency.


16 posted on 06/20/2011 12:26:24 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: neverdem

BATF was soooo stupid!

They didn’t even take bullet samples and empty casing samples before selling the guns.

If they had done that they could have at least been able to trace the guns history prior to recovery of the physical weapon itself. The entire chain of command is incompetent.

These guns now won’t be traceable until the actual weapon is recovered.


17 posted on 06/20/2011 12:26:49 PM PDT by ImJustAnotherOkie (zerogottago)
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To: gaijin

The man masquerading as the President of the United States DID THIS, and the head of the DOJ —those guys.


18 posted on 06/20/2011 12:28:51 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: Recon Dad

Not so! The first of many heads to roll because of this. This is going to reach high.


19 posted on 06/20/2011 12:33:28 PM PDT by DarthVader (That which supports Barack Hussein Obama must be sterilized and there are NO exceptions!)
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To: neverdem

The thugs at the BATFE love to give guns to the Mexican thug criminals but hate law-abiding citizens from owning them!


20 posted on 06/20/2011 12:34:27 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: ImJustAnotherOkie

Think about it for a moment. If you were running guns for a purpose(s) other than catching criminals would you want them easily traceable? I wouldn’t. In fact the purpose of F&F/gunwalker was to manufacture evidence with which to create new draconian gun laws here. Think back to Barry’s first year or so when the MSM was running all the stories about how US guns were flooding Mex and getting into the hands of drug cartels. That was propaganda on which to build more gun laws. There would come a point when Barry and the dems would have to act. The only fly in that ointment were the whistleblowers who blew the operation. When Barry spoke of working behind the scenes gun restriction this is what he was talking about. Our own govt conspired against us.


21 posted on 06/20/2011 12:41:48 PM PDT by 556x45
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To: Siena Dreaming

Certified letter sent to Obama directly by the whistleblower.

Don’t expect to see that reported.


22 posted on 06/20/2011 12:43:40 PM PDT by TigerClaws
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To: TigerClaws

What did it say?


23 posted on 06/20/2011 12:47:28 PM PDT by Siena Dreaming
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To: 556x45

My point still rings true.

The incompetence of this boggles the mind.

Did they not think they were traceable?

If untracability was their goal, they should have shot the gun dealers and all the case agents, all the people at the factory who made the weapons, and every intermediaries in between.


24 posted on 06/20/2011 12:50:00 PM PDT by ImJustAnotherOkie (zerogottago)
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To: Signalman

I’d bet $ that Frick and Frack (aka Holder and Obama) were both well aware of this operation.


25 posted on 06/20/2011 12:51:24 PM PDT by AlphaOneAlpha
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To: ImJustAnotherOkie

Not traceable? you think they _wanted_ them traced?


26 posted on 06/20/2011 12:55:56 PM PDT by ctdonath2
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To: ImJustAnotherOkie

No doubt the ATF is just about the defn of incompetent. That much isn’t in dispute. I believe they thought guns going over the border were beyond traceability. Once over the border they were ‘anonymous’. I think they felt nothing more was req’d once they went south so cleaning up in the states wouldn’t be necessary. In fact the majority of dealers live in fear of the ATF. The ATFs MO is to show up unannounced, confiscate the entire inventory and run the dealer out of money by continuing the case indefinitely. Who wants to go there? So no need to kill when intimidation is already working well.


27 posted on 06/20/2011 1:02:50 PM PDT by 556x45
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To: neverdem
"... I haven't seen that claim before, just that "Gun Walker" firearms were recovered at the scene."

A US Border Patrol agent was killed by AK47 bullets and the AKs used to kill him were dropped at the scene by the fleeing murderers. Those AKs were 'Fast And Furious' transported guns.

I suppose it's possible that those AKs weren't used in the slaying and that the murderers dropped them only because they wanted to flee the scene with the other AKs they brought which they DID use to kill the American citizen, but that sort of strains credulity, I think.

Since then, I've read that forensics determined that the bullets came from the AKs dropped at the scene, so this is all irrelevant.

28 posted on 06/20/2011 1:04:56 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: gaijin
ATF GS-12’s took time off from the completely apolitical soft-ball game, right?

The administration would love for us to believe that the decision was made all the way down at that level. I've known many GS-12s and 13s. There is no way they could make a decision like this. In the grand scheme of things, they're middle management at best.

29 posted on 06/20/2011 1:05:41 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: neverdem
I haven't seen that claim before, just that "Gun Walker" firearms were recovered at the scene.

That is what gave this story legs. One of the earliest articles on FR, February 3d, was about BP Agent Brian Terry being shot with a rifle allowed to "walk" across the border by BATFE.

Agent Terry’s Family May Sue the ATF Under the Federal Tort Claims Act

What we do know is this: Brian Terry, a Border Patrol agent and U.S. Marine veteran, was murdered on American soil by foreign nationals using rifles that were illegally purchased a year ago by straw-man buyers at an Arizona gun store. We also know that ATF has been instructing U.S. dealers to proceed with the sale of guns to illegal straw purchasers, even after the dealers had specifically warned them that they appeared to be illegal. We know that two of these ‘monitored’ guns were recovered at the scene of Agent Terry’s murder.


30 posted on 06/20/2011 1:06:21 PM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: neverdem

I remember reading earlier this year that one US ICE agent was killed and one was injured ehwn they were ambushed inside Mexico with Fast and Furious guns.


31 posted on 06/20/2011 1:17:23 PM PDT by jospehm20
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To: EQAndyBuzz
What an opportunity to bring a tweeting president down.

So now we have a "twit" who "tweets" in the White House .... sweet! /s

32 posted on 06/20/2011 1:18:25 PM PDT by MissMagnolia (Obama: Empty suit inflated with the hot air of charm, charisma & bullsh*t. We can't afford 4 more.)
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To: The KG9 Kid; TigersEye; Travis McGee; Joe Brower; wardaddy; El Gato; Squantos; Eaker; Jeff Head; ...
Since then, I've read that forensics determined that the bullets came from the AKs dropped at the scene, so this is all irrelevant.

The KG9 Kid, do you have a source? The NY Times says otherwise. I know it's the NY Times, but their style is to ignore inconvenient stories.

Justice Department Accused of ‘Reckless Technique’

Some of those agents blew the whistle to Congress this year after two such guns were found at the scene of the murder of the Border Patrol agent, Brian A. Terry. An official with knowledge of the investigation said that neither the bullet that killed Mr. Terry in December nor the casings found at the scene had been linked to the weapons that were recovered there.

The official emphasized that “the murder weapon has not been discovered.”


33 posted on 06/20/2011 1:36:53 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: neverdem

I didn’t save a source for what I’ve read, but I read it here on FR where the source of that info came from. Washington Times seems to be the source I remember seeing.


34 posted on 06/20/2011 1:54:10 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: 556x45

Agree, the whole purpose was to shut down gun sales to US citizens...GG


35 posted on 06/20/2011 1:58:39 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: neverdem; The KG9 Kid

Two rifles recovered at the scene of the shootout that cost Agent Brian Terry’s life were positively identified as guns allowed to cross the border under Fast&Furious. Are you seriously going to split hairs about what gun was the actual gun to fire the killing bullet? Give me a freakin’ break!


36 posted on 06/20/2011 2:16:33 PM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: reefdiver

“Can’t get away with murder”

Sure you can. Ever hear of Vince Foster?

These hearings are a joke, just like all of the other hearings that we thought would surely bring down the Clinton regime.


37 posted on 06/20/2011 2:40:57 PM PDT by MikeSteelBe ( "Failure to speak out against evil is evil itself" - Dietrich Bonhoeffer)
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To: TigersEye
Two rifles recovered at the scene of the shootout that cost Agent Brian Terry’s life were positively identified as guns allowed to cross the border under Fast&Furious. Are you seriously going to split hairs about what gun was the actual gun to fire the killing bullet? Give me a freakin’ break!

I think the drug cartels left those "Gun Walker" firearms on purpose. I've read stories that they knew they were under surveillance. If the BATFE knew that the weapon that killed Border Patrol Agent Terry didn't originate with "Gun Walker," Gunrunner or "Fast and Furious," they would be screaming it from the mountaintops, IMHO.

38 posted on 06/20/2011 2:42:12 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: DarthVader

Stune my beeber, it’s hugh and series!

Do you even remember Whitewater, Waco, Lewinsky, Vince Foster, ect?

The acting ATF director will resign, nothing more to see here, move along.


39 posted on 06/20/2011 2:46:10 PM PDT by MikeSteelBe ( "Failure to speak out against evil is evil itself" - Dietrich Bonhoeffer)
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To: neverdem
If the BATFE knew that the weapon that killed Border Patrol Agent Terry didn't originate with "Gun Walker," Gunrunner or "Fast and Furious," they would be screaming it from the mountaintops, IMHO.

I am sure they would which makes it clear that it did.

40 posted on 06/20/2011 2:48:48 PM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: MikeSteelBe

This is way more different.


41 posted on 06/20/2011 2:50:03 PM PDT by DarthVader (That which supports Barack Hussein Obama must be sterilized and there are NO exceptions!)
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To: TigersEye
I am sure they would which makes it clear that it did.

This is going to trial. We'll see. IMHO, Terry's family wants blood.

42 posted on 06/20/2011 3:11:17 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks neverdem.


43 posted on 06/20/2011 3:30:48 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Thanks Cincinna for this link -- http://www.friendsofitamar.org)
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To: muawiyah

Unless people start turning up in Fort Marcy Park.


44 posted on 06/20/2011 3:49:43 PM PDT by Recon Dad (Herman Cain is the man in 2012)
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To: DarthVader

Please explain. Like Ross Perot, I’m all ears.

I remember what it was like to believe this country stood for the rights of victims like Agent Terry and the rule of law.

A decade of watching these silly “hearings” and having my hopes dashed time and time again made me grow up and accept the fact that are ruled by a two-faced republicrat oligarchy that does not give a crap about the common man.

One more trip to the polls in 2012 will NOT fix this mess.


45 posted on 06/20/2011 4:20:12 PM PDT by MikeSteelBe ( "Failure to speak out against evil is evil itself" - Dietrich Bonhoeffer)
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To: MikeSteelBe

Relax and don’t worry about it everything is under control.


46 posted on 06/20/2011 4:27:15 PM PDT by DarthVader (That which supports Barack Hussein Obama must be sterilized and there are NO exceptions!)
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To: neverdem

IMNHO the Terry family deserves blood for what has happened.


47 posted on 06/20/2011 6:06:44 PM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: ImJustAnotherOkie

>BATF was soooo stupid!
>
>They didn’t even take bullet samples and empty casing samples before selling the guns.

That might have actually been a waste of time/effort/money; after firing several thousand rounds through the weapon the “thumbprint” would have changed sufficiently to make it impossible [pr nearly so] to trace.

>The entire chain of command is incompetent.

Agreed; but that is because the whole idea of having a “sting” operation where the items leave your zone-of-control, much less jurisdiction!, is absurd.


48 posted on 06/20/2011 6:25:04 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: MikeSteelBe; reefdiver

>>“Can’t get away with murder”
>
>Sure you can. Ever hear of Vince Foster?

Lon Horiuchi


49 posted on 06/20/2011 6:54:16 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: DarthVader

Spoken like a true loyal subject of the “king”.

It sounds like you have been sterilized and are under control.


50 posted on 06/21/2011 5:34:54 AM PDT by MikeSteelBe ( "Failure to speak out against evil is evil itself" - Dietrich Bonhoeffer)
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