Skip to comments.Firearms industry has a stranglehold on Congress and state legislatures
Posted on 06/24/2011 9:09:02 PM PDT by OneLoyalAmerican
Guns in Bars sounds like the concept of a high-octane Hollywood film, kind of like Snakes on a Plane.
Unfortunately, it is instead a new law in the State of Ohio.
Issues involving firearms always stir up a great deal of passion in this country, and the degree to which the Second Amendment affords Americans the right to own any and all guns will probably always be debated.
But youd think there are some gun-related issues on which we could all agree. For example, I would expect that few level-headed people would advocate having loaded weapons in establishments that are primarily for alcohol consumption. Guns and alcohol are now the most toxic mix on our cocktail menus. Even if those carrying guns in bars were not consuming, lethal weapons have no place in an area where a little bit of liquor can lead to a great deal of trouble.
Polls suggest there is a degree of consensus about this. A survey commissioned earlier this year by Mayors Against Illegal Guns, of which I am the Ohio chairperson, found that 80 percent of Ohio residents opposed allowing guns in establishments that sell alcohol. And that 80 percent included 77 percent of gun owners.
So how did this misguided and unpopular proposal become law?
The firearms industry has a stranglehold on Congress and state legislatures around the country. When the the gun lobby says Jump, these legislative bodies ask, How high?
The argument in favor of this proposal on this issue is similar to the one we hear on all firearms-related issues. The gun lobby contends that, despite all evidence to the contrary, guns make us safer.
The gun lobby argues it is irresponsible not to allow concealed, loaded weapons in bars because, under the current law, those gathered in taverns today are defenseless. By this logic, we should be required to carry a firearm everywhere to protect ourselves, just as were required to wear seatbelts in our automobiles.
Of course, that would be ridiculousthough only slightly more ridiculous than passing a law to allow guns in bars. The fact is this outlandish proposal would be a terrible addition to an already bad law.
I fought Ohios existing concealed carry law when it was first proposed, and I believe Ohio would be a safer state without it. Like all mayors of big cities, Ive seen the heartbreaking effects of gun violence up close, and I know putting more guns in more peoples hands promotes more violence, not less.
Proponents of the concealed carry statute point out that Ohioans must go through firearms safety training in order to obtain a permit to carry a gun in the Buckeye State. Thats true, but Ohio also honors concealed carry permits from 20 other states, some of which have less stringent requirements.
Those states include Utah, where residents can get a concealed carry permit after only four or five hours of weapons training. And unlike in Ohio, Utahs required training does not even include firing the gun.
This means an Ohio resident can go through the lax training requirements to obtain a Utah concealed carry permit, which can then be used to carry a concealed gun in Ohio. Better yet, you dont even have to go to Utah to get the permit. Ohio residents can get their Utah permits right here at home.
Now, those poorly trained Utah permit holders will be carrying their gunslegallyinto drinking establishments.
Now that the gun lobby folks have succeeded in getting this law approved, I cant imagine where they could do further damage to our community, unless of course they proposed something as irresponsible as the elimination of the concealed carry permit process altogether.
And that is exactly what the gun lobby is now proposing in Ohio. A new bill would scrap the concealed carry permit process while authorizing guns in public buildings, on college campuses and in day care centers.
Day care centers? It sounds like a bad joke. But so did guns in bars. And we arent laughing.
Michael B. Coleman is the mayor of Columbus, Ohio
SB17 text: “you may have a firearm if you are not consuming alcohol”
From what I understand about Columbus, they coddle the criminal element well. Maybe Mr. Coleman ought to get his house in order before he criticizes the rest of us who are law-abiding gun owners.
I am a bit bewildered on the reason behind letting a bunch of drunks get together all armed. All of us gunowners are taught safety and responsibility, drinking and carrying to me isnt all that responsible.
And your solution would be?
maybe treat it like drinking and driving, you get caught intoxicated while carrying you lose your permit to carry.
Yeah, because it’s a huge problem in PA, where there is no law on the books restricting your RIGHT to carry when consuming an alcoholic beverage. It’s almost like the State trusts the people to be responsible (CRAZY AS THAT SOUNDS!!).
Oh wait, wild west shootouts, blood in the streets, etc... Idiot.
Perhaps post #3 can help.
Mayhap a suspension. Even drunk drivers get second chances. Both are responsible for a deadly weapon.
Seriously, I believe its a good idea, mainly because while we are pushing for MORE gun freedom, the libs are always pushing for LESS. If things don't go our way, it will go their way...And we'll have no guns at all.
With the new law the restaurant owners can still post a sign to prohibit people coming in armed, but the penalty will be a misdemeanor instead of a felony.
Yeah, I won’t pack if I am drinking, most of the time. If I go out to dinner with The Warden I will almost always carry. I may have a beer or two, but I won’t be over the legal limit. Now, I’m not saying having a beer when armed is smart, but if she is with me and we are out, I’ll take my chances with the goblins and with the law. I’d rather be judged by twelve than carried by six.
Rab sees no requirement to be armed prior to entry to a “bar” even though entering is probably a bad idea. Going anywhere unarmed is probably a bad and possibly fatal idea.
Uniform Crime Statistics Columbus violent crime rate, under the tenure of Mayor Dufus.
CRIME INDEX: 2
100 is safest
This city is safer than 2% of the cities in the US.
More likely than not, that 2% are the Mayors Against Illegal Guns cities.
MY CHANCES OF BECOMING A VICTIM
1 in 119
1 in 281
Send your children to Columbus; for what?
I understand your concern about what people do when they get together for a week long hunting trip, but this isn't about that.
And it's not really about going armed in bars.
It's about going armed in restaurants.
Previously those with a Concealed Handgun License could not carry a firearm in an establishment where alcohol was served/consumed. That meant they could not carry in restaurants that served alcohol, which is a lot of restaurants, especially the better ones.
All CHL holders wanted to do was be able to carry when they patronized a nice restaurant.
The thing is, Ohio does not distinguish between establishments that are primarily for drinking, with some eating, and those that are primarily for dining, with some drinking. Some states distinguish based on percentage of sales, but Ohio doesn't.
So in order to legalize carry in restaurants that serve alcohol, they had to legalize it for bars too.
Legalized carry in restaurants was mostly the point of the effort. The anti-gun folks are ranting about the bar part because, well because they are anti-gun.
And as someone else wrote, it's not legal to drink and carry.
Note to Self: Don’t refer to yourself with a 5 year-olds name and expect adults to take you seriously.
Ever notice how Mayor Dufus never understands the difference between “legal” and “illegal?” He supports illegal immigration too.
What’s next, not knowing the difference between legal and illegal campaign contributions?
Thanks for the information. I believe the reason “Mayors Against Illegal Guns” exists is to give Blue City Mayors an excuse for the unwillingness to control crime in the cesspools for cities they represent. Columbus looks bad. Have you guys caught up with Cleveland yet?
“I know putting more guns in more peoples hands promotes more violence, not less”
It couldn’t be clearer. This low-grade moron fails to distinguish between the probable consequences of:
1. Responsible people having guns to defend themselves; and
2. Bad outlaws stealing and carrying guns for the explicit purpose of committing violent crimes.
Is it a phobia? Everyone who would touch a gun is equally bad? Or just a cynical move to harm the US?
Ah, well, the false moral equivalence is the bread of life to leftard apologetics.
Hey, wuss: God made man, but Sam Colt made them equal.
Dont refer to yourself with a 5 year-olds name and expect adults to take you seriously.
Did I do that to little Mikey? I'm such a stinker.
Here in Michigan, those of us that have a CPL cannot have even a .02 BAC. Also, I have to have the permission of the tavern owner to even carry openly.
We have an “Open-Carry Law” where one can frequent a restaurant or Bar/Restaurant as long as we “Open-Carry”.
You can’t carry your firearm with a CCW in Idaho if you are intoxicated. Firearms aren’t permitted in bars, K-12, courts and juvenile detention facilities.
May it always be so! Having an entire industry supporting our constitutional rights, how awesome is that?!
If that was the case, then the industry should have them jump right back to pre-NFA days.
They'd really be able to sell ammo if everyone could just go buy a select fire rifle or subgun.
Already that way in North Dakota.
The nibble technique leading to total gun control.
This kind of thinking has not stopped gang shootings in Chicago, or any other large city, where guns are outlawed completely.
Inscrutably enough, this seems to be OK S.O.P. for kopz.
But the actual bill says that the carrying is OK for anybody who is SOBER — not drinking.
As has been said before, if liberals looked at the 2nd Amendment the same way they look at the 1st, then people would be required to carry weapons.
. . . I know putting more guns in more peoples hands promotes more violence, not less.
As Reagan said, it's not that liberals are stupid, it's just that they know so much that isn't so.
. . . an Ohio resident can go through the lax training requirements to obtain a Utah concealed carry permit, which can then be used to carry a concealed gun in Ohio. Better yet, you dont even have to go to Utah to get the permit. Ohio residents can get their Utah permits right here at home.
??? How does that happen? States will issue concealed carry permits to non-residents? And all this time, I thought a person had to be a resident of a state to get a concealed permit from that state.
I can see it now -- go with friends to a bar, the server comes by, and when it comes to your turn to order, you can say, "I'll have the ginger ale -- I'm the designated shooter."
"I'll have the ginger ale -- I'm the designated shooter."
LOL! Excellent line.
How does that happen? States will issue concealed carry permits to non-residents?
Recipricol aggreements. Plus, seems if two states have an idential standard, why not? In my case, I was an Illinois resident, living in Ohio over 90 days when applying for my first CCW. My wife and I liked the CCW concept so much, we've made Ohio our home.
Funny thing, as a volunteer firefighter, when our members respond to a call, they turn over their firearms to the fire apparatus engineer before suiting up. I-love-it-here.
Lets say we’re both in a bar along with a lady and her date.The lady’s ex boyfriend comes to the bar with a bad case of “if I can’t have her no one else will!”He decides to take them out plus he might as well take out the other people since they were in on her cheating on him and deserve to be punished as well.Mr.Stalker pulls out his weapon and starts shooting at the couple.West Texas Chuck pulls out his weapon and takes out Mr.Stalker before everyone else gets hurt and Mr.Bonehead4freedom who has no gun in the bar is grateful since he would have just been another target of opportunity if West Texas Chuck wasn’t there to stop this nut case.
Nut cases with guns use free zones every time to maximize their stupidity I have yet to see one attack a police station.
“The firearms industry has a stranglehold on Congress and state legislatures around the country. When the the gun lobby says Jump, these legislative bodies ask, How high?”
Bull-butter!!! The relationship is tenuous at best...
I will bet a dollar to a donut hole that Mayor Mikey B Coleman is part of Bloomberg’s Mayors Against Guns crowd...
I absolutely hate going to Columbus and most of the time that I do go, it’s to take my son to Childrens Hopsital. But I usually take the option of going to the “Close to Home” offices and hit Westerville for that.
Mikey will bite at anything...
Thanks for asking.
In rural firefighting situations, some firefighters respond to the scene in their personal vehicles, donning their PPE at the scene; others respond to the station bringing the fire apparatus to the fireground. All coordinated by two way radio communications as the available respond. FAE remains with a vehicle, and holds firefighter accountability tokens, alongside the firearm of choice.
We didn't require a law written by some genius in Columbus, nor a NFPA model SOP. Just a consensus of personal preference.
At this time we're not entirely sold upon a necessity for CCW within a fireground hot zone; meaning a burning structure and/or wildland fire interface. Yet, no is going to say: "are you CCW under your turnout gear."
Thanks for the info.
I’m in the rural area myself, and am GREATLY impressed with the speed that my neighbors have responded to situations at my house!
Have you guys caught up with Cleveland yet?
LOL. Give Mikey credit, he, like all slimey politicians, do their best work fouling the CCW process.
I lived in Cleveland when CCW became the law. Every Cleveland resident seeking a CCW permit found it necessary to travel to a neighboring county to apply; because Cuyahoga County refused to fund the CCW application procedure.
Best part, the ex-Mayor of Cleveland had laid off 1/2 the police force when CCW began. And the post-CCW crime rate went down.
Uniform Crime Statistics Cleveland violent crime rate.
CRIME INDEX: 6
100 is safest
This city is safer than 6% of the cities in the US.