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Could Obama Just Ignore the Debt Ceiling? (NYT trial balloon)
New York Times ^ | June 28, 2011 | CATHERINE RAMPELL

Posted on 06/28/2011 2:52:34 PM PDT by reaganaut1

In the ongoing debate over raising the debt ceiling, one option has not had much prominence: whether the Obama administration could ignore it altogether, and just spend the money it owes anyway. Would that be legal?

Matthew Zeitlin at The New Republic spoke with a few political scientists, budget wonks and constitutional scholars who argue that it would be. An excerpt:

Garrett Epps, a legal journalist and professor at University of Baltimore School of Law, has made an even broader argument in a pair of articles for The Atlantic’s website. In an interview, Epps told me that there was a strong argument that the debt ceiling is unconstitutional because it exceeds the legislative branch’s power of the purse. The argument goes like this: Because Congress already appropriated the funds in question, it is the executive branch’s duty to enact those appropriations. The debt ceiling, then, is legislative “double-counting,” because the executive branch is obligated to spend the money Congress appropriates, without having to go back and ask again for permission.

Of course, ignoring the debt ceiling could have some severe political consequences, especially since most Americans do not seem to realize that doing so primarily requires making good on payments already promised, as opposed to committing to new spending. That may explain why most Americans still are against raising the ceiling.

(Excerpt) Read more at economix.blogs.nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Front Page News; Government
KEYWORDS: constitution; dearleader; debtceiling; debtlimit; ilduce; imperialpresidency; lawless; mayitbethefinalstraw; obama
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He certainly will if he thinks it is advantageous. Republicans better shoot down this trial balloon.
1 posted on 06/28/2011 2:52:37 PM PDT by reaganaut1
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To: reaganaut1
Wow.

They are just ignoring every law.

And they have the NYT cheerleading.

America, she is done.

2 posted on 06/28/2011 2:55:24 PM PDT by Lazamataz (Until Obama, has there ever been, in history, a Traitorous Ruler?)
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To: reaganaut1

Kings of England had less power than that. Next thing you know, Chairman ObaMao can institute his own tax policy.


3 posted on 06/28/2011 2:58:32 PM PDT by RecoveringPaulisto
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To: reaganaut1

Hopefully Obama ignoring the debt ceiling is the final straw.


4 posted on 06/28/2011 2:59:10 PM PDT by NoLibZone (Be respectful, be courteous, have a plan to kill every flash mob member that threatens you & others.)
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To: NoLibZone

Final straw for whom?


5 posted on 06/28/2011 3:00:22 PM PDT by John W (Natural-born US citizen since 1955)
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To: reaganaut1

Could Congress Just Impeach Obama If He Ignores The Debt Ceiling? (Tribune7 trial ballon)


6 posted on 06/28/2011 3:02:05 PM PDT by Tribune7 (We're flat broke, but he thinks these solar shingles and really fast trains will magically save us.)
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To: reaganaut1
Time's Richard Stengel thinks he has the answer...


7 posted on 06/28/2011 3:03:12 PM PDT by mc5cents (Noli nothis permittere te terere)
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To: reaganaut1
Hmm. Executive branch spending not authorized by Congress. Gee, do you think that's legal?

The House would likely impeach and the Senate would likely acquit, or maybe as with Zero's other law-breaking, they'd just cut to the Senate acquital scene, doing nothing once again.

Does all that make it legal?

Oh, and then there's "We The People" with which to contend.

I don't think that'll go quite as easily as it did with the Senate!

HF

8 posted on 06/28/2011 3:03:19 PM PDT by holden
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To: reaganaut1

Do any of these so-called “constitutional scholars” ever actually read the Constitution?

Article 1, Section 8:

“The Congress shall have power to...pay the debts..of the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;”

According to the Constitution, it is Congress that has the ability to borrow money, not the Executive branch. So unless Congress authorizes the borrowing by raising the debt ceiling, any borrowing by the administration would be unconstitutional.

Not that it would keep them from trying...


9 posted on 06/28/2011 3:03:52 PM PDT by CA Conservative
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To: reaganaut1

He’s ignored to bloody many laws, what’s one more?


10 posted on 06/28/2011 3:04:25 PM PDT by RWB Patriot ("My ability is a value that must be purchased and I don't recognize anyone's need as a claim on me.")
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To: reaganaut1

Obama usually ignores laws and whatever he wants. The “Debt Ceiling” is no big deal for him while pursuing the Cloward–Piven strategy.


11 posted on 06/28/2011 3:06:00 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Tribune7

sounds good, but no way the dem senate votes to convict.


12 posted on 06/28/2011 3:07:19 PM PDT by rokkitapps ( Hearings on healthcare waivers NOW! (If you agree make this your tagline))
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To: reaganaut1
constitution Pictures, Images and Photos
13 posted on 06/28/2011 3:07:33 PM PDT by Snickering Hound
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To: reaganaut1

I’m confused. Presidents don’t spend money. Congress does.


14 posted on 06/28/2011 3:10:36 PM PDT by RobRoy (The US today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: holden

>>Oh, and then there’s “We The People” with which to contend.<<

Which may explain why he rides around in a “tank that looks like a car.”


15 posted on 06/28/2011 3:12:26 PM PDT by RobRoy (The US today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: RecoveringPaulisto
"Stroke of the pen. Law of the land. Kinda cool."
--Clinton presidential aide Paul Begala, July 1998
(concerning Executive Orders)

HF

16 posted on 06/28/2011 3:13:27 PM PDT by holden
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To: reaganaut1

Obama could and by extension Congress ignore the debt ceiling, since Obama actually doesn’t spend money, but certainly the bond market will not ignore such a move


17 posted on 06/28/2011 3:14:59 PM PDT by Popman (Obama. First Marxist to turn a five year Marxist plan into a 4 year administration.)
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To: rokkitapps

>>sounds good, but no way the dem senate votes to convict.<<

I’ve said since summer of 2009 that I do not believe Urkel will finish his term. I’ll add a caveat: There is one way he could, but it is along the lines of dictatorship, but a new hybrid for the new millennium. They seem to be pretty creative with that stuff.


18 posted on 06/28/2011 3:14:59 PM PDT by RobRoy (The US today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: mc5cents

That’s a really shocking and sad picture.


19 posted on 06/28/2011 3:14:59 PM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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To: reaganaut1

yes obama can ignore the debt ceiling of course that will assure he loses the election..........


20 posted on 06/28/2011 3:16:05 PM PDT by SECURE AMERICA (Where can I sign up for the New American Revolution and the Crusades 2012?)
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To: Tribune7

How about we all quit paying taxes? If enough of us do it at one time, there’s nothing they can do about it.


21 posted on 06/28/2011 3:17:50 PM PDT by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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To: RobRoy

Hope you are right. The USA can’t survive much more of Barry’s shenanigans.


22 posted on 06/28/2011 3:19:43 PM PDT by rokkitapps ( Hearings on healthcare waivers NOW! (If you agree make this your tagline))
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To: reaganaut1

He’s a socialist fascist.

They seize power by fiat; it’s their nature.


23 posted on 06/28/2011 3:21:23 PM PDT by TheThirdRuffian (Nothing to see here. Move along.)
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To: Lazamataz

The RNC response should be to announce that if Obama illegally issues bonds, the law will be that such bonds will not be paid.

Power for the same or not, it would create such a cloud that no one would buy them.


24 posted on 06/28/2011 3:24:12 PM PDT by TheThirdRuffian (Nothing to see here. Move along.)
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To: reaganaut1
Just remember that Obambi is not in the slightest bit responsible for any of this mess.

None of this was Obambi's responsibility . It was the staffer that filled out the questionaire for his first term incorrectly .

25 posted on 06/28/2011 3:25:15 PM PDT by laweeks
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To: reaganaut1; neverdem; Kaslin; SunkenCiv

That they’re even contemplating this is shocking.


26 posted on 06/28/2011 3:27:50 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued (Illegal aliens collect welfare checks that Americans won't collect)
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To: reaganaut1

He will certainly seal his re-election fate if he does.


27 posted on 06/28/2011 3:30:32 PM PDT by AdaGray
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To: reaganaut1

Obama can not ignore the debt ceiling.

He can not spend money he doesn’t have to spend. That would be fraud.

He can’t borrow beyond the debt limit, because he will be violating the debt limit law.

He can’t change taxes without congress.

The Debt Limit law makes most appropriations subject to having sufficient funds on hand. If Obama doesn’t have sufficient funds on hand, his only two options are to borrow money and he can’t do that except to the extent authorized by Congress or to wait for new tax revenues to flow in.


28 posted on 06/28/2011 3:33:23 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: reaganaut1

That has worried me a lot and I am very surprised more haven’t talked about it. There has been much discussion in the past on whether or not a “debt ceiling” is even Constitutional.

All that means is that if there is an argument that it is unconstitutional, I think there is a real chance that the Obama Admin will ignore it if no deal is reached.


29 posted on 06/28/2011 3:33:49 PM PDT by RIghtwardHo
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To: John W

Tea party House of Reps. Maybe another impeachment, thats who


30 posted on 06/28/2011 3:36:43 PM PDT by reefdiver ("Let His day's be few And another takes His office")
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To: mc5cents

Funny you mention him. In a Charlie Rose interview, he pushed the idea that the 14th amendment ‘all debts should be deem valid’ clause meant the debt ceiling could be unconstitutional.

These liberals will find a way to avoid the one thing they really oppose: Doing whatever it is that conservatives want.


31 posted on 06/28/2011 3:39:29 PM PDT by WOSG (Herman Cain for President)
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To: reaganaut1

No Controlling Legal Authority

Who’s going to accuse him of a crime? Who’s going to threaten him with being cited? Arrested?

What, are you kidding me?

How much you wanna bet this “trial balloon” was given birth in the Oval Office and faxed over to the Times?


32 posted on 06/28/2011 3:40:42 PM PDT by atc23 (The Confederacy was the single greatest conservative resistance to federal authority ever.)
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To: TheThirdRuffian

You’re assuming the GOP/RNC has something between their legs. The last chairman of the RNC is Boo-Hoo Boner’s spokesperson and sucks up to Chris Mathews everyday.


33 posted on 06/28/2011 3:45:01 PM PDT by Terry Mross (I'll only vote for a SECOND party.)
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To: reaganaut1

This is old news. Denninger has brought it up before. It seems that there is no “or else” in the law. So Obama can break it without penalty. Congress critters always forget the penalty part when government officials could be punished for breaking a law.


34 posted on 06/28/2011 3:48:19 PM PDT by Revel
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To: Red Steel

The discipline for this will come from the bond market, not from Obama’s respect for the law.

Would you invest in a bond of questionable authorization? I wouldn’t. It would make interest rates skyrocket.


35 posted on 06/28/2011 3:50:48 PM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
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To: reaganaut1

We’ve been operating without a budget for 2 years. If they can ignore the mandate to actually make a budget they can easily ignore the debt ceiling law. And given how little complaining the GOP has done about the lack of budget they really have no leverage to enforce the ceiling.


36 posted on 06/28/2011 3:54:10 PM PDT by discostu (Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn)
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To: reaganaut1
Could Obama Just Ignore the Debt Ceiling?

What debt ceiling?

What War Powers Act?

Want some whiskey in you water? Sugar in your tea? What's all these crazy questions you're asking me?

37 posted on 06/28/2011 3:56:00 PM PDT by Polybius
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To: reaganaut1; xzins; wmfights; blue-duncan
Why don't all American taxpayers just open up new accounts at banks, put $1 in the account and then write a check to the Federal Goverment for the $20,000 or so that we supposedly owe to pay our income taxes?

Hell if the government can create money out of thin air, then they can cover our bad checks.

38 posted on 06/28/2011 3:59:20 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: reaganaut1

whu not. he ignores congress, the constitution, judges and all of the reponsibity and decision making his job entails.


39 posted on 06/28/2011 4:00:02 PM PDT by bravo whiskey (If the little things really bother you, maybe it's because the big things are going well.)
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To: reaganaut1
Doesn't matter what the GOP does. It will be polled over the next week. If Obama is close to 50%, he's going to do it, and it won't be used against him in 2012.

He wants to destroy our way of life. I don't know how many times I can type this, but the answer never seems to get through to people.

40 posted on 06/28/2011 4:06:53 PM PDT by Carling (At some point, those surrounding Obama have to realize that they are working for a psychopath)
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To: abb

Thats exactly what would need to be done.If Obama does not follow the law, why should the people?


41 posted on 06/28/2011 4:09:10 PM PDT by Candor7 (Obama . fascist info..http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html)
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To: reaganaut1

Let them do it. Then the S&P can downgrade our credit rating and finally light the match and toss it onto this gas covered smoldering mass that used to be the United States of America. Countries are already looking to dump us as the worlds reserve currency. America is like the punch-drunk boxer out on his feet and has no sense to fall over. We can only blame ourselves for standing by and letting the govt do this to us. So feel free to hate on me for stating the truth that no one wants to talk about.


42 posted on 06/28/2011 4:09:50 PM PDT by eak3
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To: RWB Patriot

and i blame the GOP- because they do nothing but sit around like little girls and take it (except for a few exceptions- Issa being one of those cases)...


43 posted on 06/28/2011 4:09:51 PM PDT by God luvs America (63.5million pay no federal income tax then vote demoKrat)
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To: rokkitapps

This is why we have to make sure we get the majority and especially the super majority back in the Senate. Plus ad more seats to the House


44 posted on 06/28/2011 4:10:56 PM PDT by Kaslin (Acronym for OBAMA: One Big Ass Mistake America)
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To: reaganaut1

He could try and ignor it, but the House can defund it and order him held in contempt until impeachment. He wont be able to as much as fart without someone-the military, crawling up his ass.
If they fail to do it, then under the tenth amendment, the states can do it and if not the states, THEN THE PEOPLE can enforce their will.

And I am ready, Are you?


45 posted on 06/28/2011 4:13:56 PM PDT by crz
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks reaganaut1.
...and just spend the money it owes anyway. Would that be legal?
Releasing the (supposed) Strategic Reserve a few days ago will also have an impact on A) national security and B) the deficit.


46 posted on 06/28/2011 4:17:03 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's the Obamacare, stupid! -- Thanks Cincinna for this link -- http://www.friendsofitamar.org)
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To: reaganaut1

Same old stunt. Every time lefties run into opposition they start spreading runors that they’re just going to ignore what the people want. Clinton was just going to stay for another term, Democrats were just going to ignore the 2010 election, Gray Davis was just going to refuse to leave, Obama was just going to ignore Congress. And every time they cave.


47 posted on 06/28/2011 4:31:06 PM PDT by ArmstedFragg (hoaxy dopey changey)
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To: reaganaut1

It would be an impeachable offense, but is there any GOP rep. or Senator who would have the guts to vote to impeach?


48 posted on 06/28/2011 4:32:39 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: reaganaut1

Sure he can do this if he wants a revolution to start imediately.Many of us are at the end of our ropes with the mismanagement his lendership has wrought.


49 posted on 06/28/2011 4:34:06 PM PDT by chris_bdba
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To: ArmstedFragg

” And every time they cave. “

With the exception, of course, of TARP, Porkulus, and Obamacare - possibly the three worst pieces of legislation of the past 75 years, and all passed over the objection of substantial majorities of the population...


50 posted on 06/28/2011 4:36:33 PM PDT by Uncle Ike (Rope is cheap, and there are lots of trees...)
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