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Germany to sell tanks to Saudi Arabia: report
Agence France Presse (AFP) ^ | 02/07/2011

Posted on 07/02/2011 12:48:03 PM PDT by sukhoi-30mki

Edited on 07/02/2011 1:21:40 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

Germany has allowed the sale of 200 Leopard tanks to Saudi Arabia after decades of blocking heavy weapons sales to the kingdom, the Der Spiegel said Saturday.

The federal security council approved the sale last week, the weekly news magazine said without citing sources.


(Excerpt) Read more at expatica.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Germany; Israel; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bahrain; egypt; germany; iran; iraq; israel; jordan; kuwait; leopard; mbt; saudiarabia; yemen

1 posted on 07/02/2011 12:48:07 PM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki
The order is to include 84 new F-15 fighter jets and 178 combat helicopters.

Boeing's union pukes are going to love this.


2 posted on 07/02/2011 12:52:37 PM PDT by darkwing104 (Lets get dangerous)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

A bit of detail/specs on the 2A7 model:

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htarm/articles/20100625.aspx


3 posted on 07/02/2011 12:56:09 PM PDT by DemforBush (Serpentine, Shel! Serpentine!)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

More weapons for Israel to one day face. Thanks Germany...


4 posted on 07/02/2011 1:00:14 PM PDT by TheBattman (They exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature...)
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To: DemforBush

Does anybody know if the Saudis actually pay the United States for defending their oil? If they do not pay us then why don’t we demand something for our efforts? If the Saudis started paying us, that would help balance off the trade deficit and they would have billions of dollars less to spread Wahabbism throughout the world.


5 posted on 07/02/2011 1:02:21 PM PDT by cradle of freedom (Long live the Republic !)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Do they come with book-on-disk version of Mein Kampf? Its a popular title amongst adherent to the religion of “peace”


6 posted on 07/02/2011 1:05:17 PM PDT by King Moonracer (Bad lighting and cheap fabric, that's how you sell clothing.....)
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To: TheBattman

We have sold the M1 to the Saudis in the past. I never worried too much, because all their eggs were in our basket. Without a continuous stream of ammunition and parts, these tanks don’t go far (I’m an ex M1 tanker). This ‘diversification’ does cause concern, as the US loses some control. It is also a very sobering example of the potential superiority of the Leopard over the M1. It usually wins manueverabilty tests, rapid fire tests, etc. Still - not really battle tested.


7 posted on 07/02/2011 1:11:12 PM PDT by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks sukhoi-30mki.


8 posted on 07/02/2011 1:57:31 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's the Obamacare, stupid! -- Thanks Cincinna for this link -- http://www.friendsofitamar.org)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
Sorta side-topic, but I had always thought Panzer was the German rendering of "panther" -- actually, Panzer just means "tank", and their word for panther is Leopard...
9 posted on 07/02/2011 2:08:04 PM PDT by mikrofon (And here I studied Deutsch for 2 years ;)
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To: TheBattman
The kingdom is worried more about Obummer and Iran and the brotherhood than they are Israel. They see Iran taking over Iraq as soon as we leave, mookie will be in control.
10 posted on 07/02/2011 2:23:51 PM PDT by org.whodat
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To: lacrew

Saudi does not have the personnel to man what they have.

Half of the Saudi bought M1A1s are de facto US pre-positioning sets for a division. Paid for by Saudi but, maintenance supervised by MAAG Riyadh.


11 posted on 07/02/2011 2:35:39 PM PDT by DJ Elliott (Montrose Toast Blog)
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To: lacrew

These are replacement for French AMX-30s. The deal for Le Clerks was canx. Saudi has always bought from 2-3 sources.


12 posted on 07/02/2011 2:40:57 PM PDT by DJ Elliott (Montrose Toast Blog)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Do you suppose the Saudis said they wouldn’t buy any more Mercedes products unless they got the Leapords ??

(Back when I was working in the KSA almost every medium and heavy truck or luxury car was Mercedes.) >PS


13 posted on 07/02/2011 2:52:28 PM PDT by PiperShade
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To: darkwing104

It’s time to pull our troops out.

Let them call Germany the next time they feel threatened by Iran.


14 posted on 07/02/2011 2:52:35 PM PDT by Iron Munro (The more effeminate & debauched the people, the more they are fitted for a tyrannical government.)
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To: lacrew

I guess the Saudis got wise the M-1.

By many accounts the Leapord is a much better tank than the M-1. Its got a better gun system, probably equally as good armour is lighter and goes a hell of a lot further on a gallon of fuel. >PS


15 posted on 07/02/2011 2:56:30 PM PDT by PiperShade
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To: mikrofon

Actually, “panzer” means armor. The full German name for a tank is “panzerkampfwagen”. That means armored fight vehicle.


16 posted on 07/02/2011 2:58:42 PM PDT by AnAmericanAbroad (It's all bread and circuses for the future prey of the Morlocks.)
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To: cradle of freedom

Don’t know if “pay” is exactly the correct way to express what I think is happening. I suspect the USA has a lot of pre-positioned assets in country. I also suspect there’s some disguized installations deep in the “empty quarter” as well.

Back when I was there, ( the mid-Seventies ) there was a large USACOE presence and a lot of MATs traffic as well as a lot of military contractors around all the time.

Two of the holiest sites of all Islam are inside their borders and the Saudis take their “Defender of the Faith” title seriously, I know. They also have to let their enemies into their nation every year on Hadj.

Small wonder they’re always angling for secret alliances with the U.S.d and some other Western nations. >PS


17 posted on 07/02/2011 3:18:26 PM PDT by PiperShade
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To: mikrofon

“Panzer just means “tank”, and their word for panther is Leopard...”

WRONG.

The German word for panther is....ready for this?

Panther.


18 posted on 07/02/2011 4:44:28 PM PDT by wolficatZ (Somebody once wrote "Revenge is a dish that has to be eaten cold".)
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To: wolficatZ

OK .... That’s what I get for using Babelfish ;)


19 posted on 07/02/2011 5:04:05 PM PDT by mikrofon (SHHHHH!)
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To: TheBattman
More weapons for Israel to one day face. Thanks Germany...

Yeah, if it comes to that they'll arrive a month or two after all those fighter jets from XXX have flattened the place. Thanks XXX....

20 posted on 07/02/2011 5:13:39 PM PDT by Moltke (Always retaliate first.)
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To: cradle of freedom
They do pay us for that privilege. But the difference in the balance of accounts is SO vast that its a drop in the bucket.

You need to understand that the Saudi's are SO well armed its beyong comprehension. They just don't have all that many qualified soldiers to use what they have.

The breadth of Saudi military hardware is extremely vast and ready at a moments notice for somebody to climb into the cockpit that knows what they're doing and go to town.

The Saudi's spend billions just maintaing the hardware in a state of perpetual readyness according to engineering design specs. That means the M1A2's are fired up at minimal time intervals and brought to minimal operating temps per design specs Likewise w/the fighter jets: engines spooled up and run for X engineer specified amount of time to prolong storage life and absolute instantaneous readiness.

Just think of the Saudi military showcase to be akin to Jay Leno's car vault. They have everything but nobody to use it.

IF the Saudi's squeal, guess who comes running (and guess what they'll have at disposal)?

The amount they've spent on archival of their hardware is staggering to the knees.

21 posted on 07/02/2011 5:34:52 PM PDT by raygun (http://bastiat.org/en/the_law DOT html)
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To: raygun

Have you ever read “Secrets of the Kingdom” by Gerald Posner?


22 posted on 07/02/2011 6:39:25 PM PDT by cradle of freedom (Long live the Republic !)
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To: raygun
Several thoughts come to mind. Germany is looking to make a whole bunch of Euros off the Leopard sale because it's downsizing the Bundeswehr to a ceremonial force to pay for it's socialist lifestyle. It won't work and they just might need the troops to fight the Muslim threat menacing Germany and Western Europe. (Socialists don't care where other people's money comes from as long as they maintain their lifestyle.)

Quite right about the Saudis — they have tons of equipment. I question not only whether they have the manpower to use the hardware, but whether they have the maintenance personnel to maintain it. Saudis are not renowned for there technical skills.

23 posted on 07/02/2011 7:05:52 PM PDT by MasterGunner01 (To err is human; to forgive is not our policy. -- SEAL Team SIX)
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To: MasterGunner01

“Quite right about the Saudis — they have tons of equipment. I question not only whether they have the manpower to use the hardware, but whether they have the maintenance personnel to maintain it. Saudis are not renowned for there technical skills.”

Its not a question. They don’t. Saudi contracts out most of its maintenance and over half of its US armor is in storage because they do not have the personnel to man it. De facto US prepositioning equipment funded by Saudi and supported by US FMS via MAAG Riyadh.


24 posted on 07/02/2011 9:22:54 PM PDT by DJ Elliott (Montrose Toast Blog)
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To: DJ Elliott
In 1985, I was on my way to Europe on vacation to the Netherlands and the UK. I shared the three seats on the B747 with a sports writer and a C-130 maintenance instructor from Lockheed. The Lockheed guy recounted that he was supposed to teach six Saudis how to maintain the C-130 under a contract between Saudis and Lockheed.

The first day of class, six Saudis showed up. The second day it was five — No. 6 was never seen again.

Attendance in class was spotty at best. No. 4 and 5 disappeared during week two. No. 3 would show up about one-third of the time and No. 2 seemed to come on the days No. 3 was off. No. 1 got showed up enough to absorb half the course.

A week before graduation was supposed to happen, the Lockheed instructor was asked how many would graduate to be certified as C-130 mechanics. The answer was none. Asked why, he responded “because the either weren't there or just took off and never came back.”

The Saudis eventually subcontracted the C-130 maintenance to the Pakistanis.

25 posted on 07/02/2011 9:57:41 PM PDT by MasterGunner01 (To err is human; to forgive is not our policy. -- SEAL Team SIX)
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To: MasterGunner01

It hasn’t changed since.

Saudi has a small population to begin with.
The number willing to actually work is a very small minority of that.


26 posted on 07/02/2011 10:01:15 PM PDT by DJ Elliott (Montrose Toast Blog)
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To: org.whodat
They see Iran taking over Iraq as soon as we leave, mookie will be in control.

Yeah, the Iraq war was total stupid. Not only did we take out Iran's enemy, we set it up for them to take over Iraq.

27 posted on 07/02/2011 10:15:47 PM PDT by Doe Eyes
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To: sukhoi-30mki

“Ze drem vil finali kum tru.”


28 posted on 07/02/2011 10:18:31 PM PDT by RichInOC ("In the name of Allah, The Inexorable, The Irresistible...")
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To: TheBattman
"More weapons for Israel to one day face. Thanks Germany..."

In other news: "The sale of AWACS (Airborne Warning and Control System) surveillance planes to Saudi Arabia by the United States administration of President Ronald Reagan was a controversial part of what was then the largest foreign arms sale in US history. The sale saw objections from a majority of Americans, prominent US Senators, the State of Israel and the Israel lobby."

"More weapons for Israel to one day face. Thanks USA..."

29 posted on 07/03/2011 1:06:15 AM PDT by FW190
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To: mikrofon

Panzer literally means “armor”.


30 posted on 07/03/2011 5:18:47 AM PDT by avid (Please consider the environmental impact of not printing this posting!)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

“More weapons for Israel to one day face.” .............................. Its all about “training” and “the will” to fight. Which military is the better lead and better fed? This is more about Iran than Israel.


31 posted on 07/03/2011 7:13:00 AM PDT by Bringbackthedraft (The storm clouds of war are on the horizon, 1939 is again approaching us.)
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To: AnAmericanAbroad
The Deutschland-class pocket battleships of World War Two fame (or infamy) were actually designated Panzerschiffes, "Armored Ships".
32 posted on 07/03/2011 8:06:46 AM PDT by Stonewall Jackson (Democrats: "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.")
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To: DJ Elliott
I read that Saudi is woefully deficient in such mundane things as auto mechanics. Saudis have a hangup on Mercedes-Benz cars, but the don't (or can't) fix even small maintenance related items — like disc brake pads. Saudis will just dump the car and get a new one. There must be tons of good used, low mileage cars in Saudi that wouldn't take much to fix and put back on the road.
33 posted on 07/03/2011 4:29:56 PM PDT by MasterGunner01 (To err is human; to forgive is not our policy. -- SEAL Team SIX)
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To: FW190

Lest we forget all the arms we sold Iraq a few decades back...


34 posted on 07/05/2011 2:52:28 PM PDT by TheBattman (They exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature...)
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To: PiperShade

“Its got a better gun system”
I doubt this, because they both share the same smooth bore gun.


35 posted on 07/07/2011 6:35:22 AM PDT by buzzer
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To: buzzer

Yeah, I know its the same gun, but the “system” pointing it is the key. Some folks rate the Leapord’s as better than the Abrahams’.

Where the Leapord shines IMO is in its range and mobility. Its not hard to “soft kill” Abrahams. Just take out their fuel train. >PS


36 posted on 07/07/2011 4:29:54 PM PDT by PiperShade
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To: MasterGunner01

Actually, there’s an export industry for those used cars. Run by expats. Been going on for decades.

The Saudi dumps his broke car and buys another. The expats buy the abandoned car cheap, fixes it up and sells it for a profit in countries nearby that are not so rich...


37 posted on 07/08/2011 5:27:36 PM PDT by DJ Elliott (Montrose Toast Blog)
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To: DJ Elliott

Recycling before it was “cool” to recycle. I love capitalism at work.


38 posted on 07/08/2011 5:30:01 PM PDT by MasterGunner01 (To err is human; to forgive is not our policy. -- SEAL Team SIX)
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To: buzzer

You answered:

...........“Its got a better gun system”
I doubt this, because they both share the same smooth bore gun..........

Although it is true that the Abrams uses the same cannon like the first Leopard 2 (Rheinmetall 120 mm L/44), the current models Leopard 2A6 and Leopard 2A7 use a improved and longer cannon (Rheinmetall 120 mm L/55). Since US tanks do not mess around with Leos, there is no millitary need for an upgrade in the moment. Nevertheless we love to sell you some new cannons that are up to date.

Regards from Europe!

Andreas


39 posted on 07/09/2011 1:48:53 AM PDT by European Guest (De omnibus dubitandum)
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To: TheBattman

You said:

“...More weapons for Israel to one day face. Thanks Germany...”

What I heared was that the Israelis were in favor of this deal since they want the Saudis being able to defend themselves aganinst Iran.

Regards from Europe!

Andreas


40 posted on 07/09/2011 1:53:59 AM PDT by European Guest (De omnibus dubitandum)
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To: Doe Eyes

the Iraq war was total stupid. Not only did we take out Iran’s enemy, we set it up for them to take over Iraq.

//////////////
Very True.


41 posted on 07/20/2011 11:18:00 PM PDT by TomasUSMC ( FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM)
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