Skip to comments.Germany to sell tanks to Saudi Arabia: report
Posted on 07/02/2011 12:48:03 PM PDT by sukhoi-30mkiEdited on 07/02/2011 1:21:40 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
Germany has allowed the sale of 200 Leopard tanks to Saudi Arabia after decades of blocking heavy weapons sales to the kingdom, the Der Spiegel said Saturday.
The federal security council approved the sale last week, the weekly news magazine said without citing sources.
(Excerpt) Read more at expatica.com ...
Boeing's union pukes are going to love this.
A bit of detail/specs on the 2A7 model:
More weapons for Israel to one day face. Thanks Germany...
Does anybody know if the Saudis actually pay the United States for defending their oil? If they do not pay us then why don’t we demand something for our efforts? If the Saudis started paying us, that would help balance off the trade deficit and they would have billions of dollars less to spread Wahabbism throughout the world.
Do they come with book-on-disk version of Mein Kampf? Its a popular title amongst adherent to the religion of “peace”
We have sold the M1 to the Saudis in the past. I never worried too much, because all their eggs were in our basket. Without a continuous stream of ammunition and parts, these tanks don’t go far (I’m an ex M1 tanker). This ‘diversification’ does cause concern, as the US loses some control. It is also a very sobering example of the potential superiority of the Leopard over the M1. It usually wins manueverabilty tests, rapid fire tests, etc. Still - not really battle tested.
Saudi does not have the personnel to man what they have.
Half of the Saudi bought M1A1s are de facto US pre-positioning sets for a division. Paid for by Saudi but, maintenance supervised by MAAG Riyadh.
These are replacement for French AMX-30s. The deal for Le Clerks was canx. Saudi has always bought from 2-3 sources.
Do you suppose the Saudis said they wouldn’t buy any more Mercedes products unless they got the Leapords ??
(Back when I was working in the KSA almost every medium and heavy truck or luxury car was Mercedes.) >PS
It’s time to pull our troops out.
Let them call Germany the next time they feel threatened by Iran.
I guess the Saudis got wise the M-1.
By many accounts the Leapord is a much better tank than the M-1. Its got a better gun system, probably equally as good armour is lighter and goes a hell of a lot further on a gallon of fuel. >PS
Actually, “panzer” means armor. The full German name for a tank is “panzerkampfwagen”. That means armored fight vehicle.
Don’t know if “pay” is exactly the correct way to express what I think is happening. I suspect the USA has a lot of pre-positioned assets in country. I also suspect there’s some disguized installations deep in the “empty quarter” as well.
Back when I was there, ( the mid-Seventies ) there was a large USACOE presence and a lot of MATs traffic as well as a lot of military contractors around all the time.
Two of the holiest sites of all Islam are inside their borders and the Saudis take their “Defender of the Faith” title seriously, I know. They also have to let their enemies into their nation every year on Hadj.
Small wonder they’re always angling for secret alliances with the U.S.d and some other Western nations. >PS
“Panzer just means “tank”, and their word for panther is Leopard...”
The German word for panther is....ready for this?
OK .... That’s what I get for using Babelfish ;)
Yeah, if it comes to that they'll arrive a month or two after all those fighter jets from XXX have flattened the place. Thanks XXX....
You need to understand that the Saudi's are SO well armed its beyong comprehension. They just don't have all that many qualified soldiers to use what they have.
The breadth of Saudi military hardware is extremely vast and ready at a moments notice for somebody to climb into the cockpit that knows what they're doing and go to town.
The Saudi's spend billions just maintaing the hardware in a state of perpetual readyness according to engineering design specs. That means the M1A2's are fired up at minimal time intervals and brought to minimal operating temps per design specs Likewise w/the fighter jets: engines spooled up and run for X engineer specified amount of time to prolong storage life and absolute instantaneous readiness.
Just think of the Saudi military showcase to be akin to Jay Leno's car vault. They have everything but nobody to use it.
IF the Saudi's squeal, guess who comes running (and guess what they'll have at disposal)?
The amount they've spent on archival of their hardware is staggering to the knees.
Have you ever read “Secrets of the Kingdom” by Gerald Posner?
Quite right about the Saudis — they have tons of equipment. I question not only whether they have the manpower to use the hardware, but whether they have the maintenance personnel to maintain it. Saudis are not renowned for there technical skills.
“Quite right about the Saudis they have tons of equipment. I question not only whether they have the manpower to use the hardware, but whether they have the maintenance personnel to maintain it. Saudis are not renowned for there technical skills.”
Its not a question. They don’t. Saudi contracts out most of its maintenance and over half of its US armor is in storage because they do not have the personnel to man it. De facto US prepositioning equipment funded by Saudi and supported by US FMS via MAAG Riyadh.
The first day of class, six Saudis showed up. The second day it was five — No. 6 was never seen again.
Attendance in class was spotty at best. No. 4 and 5 disappeared during week two. No. 3 would show up about one-third of the time and No. 2 seemed to come on the days No. 3 was off. No. 1 got showed up enough to absorb half the course.
A week before graduation was supposed to happen, the Lockheed instructor was asked how many would graduate to be certified as C-130 mechanics. The answer was none. Asked why, he responded “because the either weren't there or just took off and never came back.”
The Saudis eventually subcontracted the C-130 maintenance to the Pakistanis.
It hasn’t changed since.
Saudi has a small population to begin with.
The number willing to actually work is a very small minority of that.
Yeah, the Iraq war was total stupid. Not only did we take out Iran's enemy, we set it up for them to take over Iraq.
“Ze drem vil finali kum tru.”
In other news: "The sale of AWACS (Airborne Warning and Control System) surveillance planes to Saudi Arabia by the United States administration of President Ronald Reagan was a controversial part of what was then the largest foreign arms sale in US history. The sale saw objections from a majority of Americans, prominent US Senators, the State of Israel and the Israel lobby."
"More weapons for Israel to one day face. Thanks USA..."
Panzer literally means “armor”.
“More weapons for Israel to one day face.” .............................. Its all about “training” and “the will” to fight. Which military is the better lead and better fed? This is more about Iran than Israel.
Lest we forget all the arms we sold Iraq a few decades back...
“Its got a better gun system”
I doubt this, because they both share the same smooth bore gun.
Yeah, I know its the same gun, but the “system” pointing it is the key. Some folks rate the Leapord’s as better than the Abrahams’.
Where the Leapord shines IMO is in its range and mobility. Its not hard to “soft kill” Abrahams. Just take out their fuel train. >PS
Actually, there’s an export industry for those used cars. Run by expats. Been going on for decades.
The Saudi dumps his broke car and buys another. The expats buy the abandoned car cheap, fixes it up and sells it for a profit in countries nearby that are not so rich...
Recycling before it was “cool” to recycle. I love capitalism at work.
...........Its got a better gun system
I doubt this, because they both share the same smooth bore gun..........
Although it is true that the Abrams uses the same cannon like the first Leopard 2 (Rheinmetall 120 mm L/44), the current models Leopard 2A6 and Leopard 2A7 use a improved and longer cannon (Rheinmetall 120 mm L/55). Since US tanks do not mess around with Leos, there is no millitary need for an upgrade in the moment. Nevertheless we love to sell you some new cannons that are up to date.
Regards from Europe!
“...More weapons for Israel to one day face. Thanks Germany...”
What I heared was that the Israelis were in favor of this deal since they want the Saudis being able to defend themselves aganinst Iran.
Regards from Europe!
the Iraq war was total stupid. Not only did we take out Iran’s enemy, we set it up for them to take over Iraq.