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Leif Ericson discovers new continent
05/07/2011 | WesternCulture

Posted on 07/04/2011 11:40:41 PM PDT by WesternCulture

America belongs to the Americans.

Yes, but the discovery of America does not belong to silly Southern Europe.

From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leif_Ericson

Viking explorers discovered America. Anyone denying this is selling LIES.

Leif Ericson is the King of all explorers.

No other Westerner, rightfully, can claim to have discovered America.

It's time to see who's who, Columbus.


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: barbarians; toughguys; vikings; warriors
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1 posted on 07/04/2011 11:40:46 PM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: WesternCulture

The Wikipedia link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leif_Ericson


2 posted on 07/04/2011 11:41:53 PM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: WesternCulture

I wonder what those who were living in America for 15,000 years when Erikson arrived would have to say about this?


3 posted on 07/04/2011 11:44:12 PM PDT by trumandogz
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To: WesternCulture
I got news for you. The only people who care about Leiff Erickson are Jack and Shit. And Jack left town.

Seriously, while he may have gotten here first, who cares? His discovery never amounted to a hill of beans. For all we know, there were dozens more who arrived before him, and down the road we may learn of them. We certainly know that others DID arrive in the Americas first, as the continents were already populated by people who crossed over from the Bering Strait.

Point is, it was Columbus' voyage which opened up the Americas to Europe and changed history. Leiff's voyage is just a blip which no one took notice of.
4 posted on 07/04/2011 11:46:42 PM PDT by Optimus Prime (Do liberals even qualify as sentient beings?)
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To: trumandogz

>> I wonder what those who were living in America for 15,000 years when Erikson arrived would have to say about this?

I bet they’d say they ate a lot of yogurt to live that long.


5 posted on 07/04/2011 11:49:37 PM PDT by Gene Eric (*** Jesus ***)
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To: trumandogz
I wonder what those who were living in America for 15,000 years when Erikson arrived would have to say about this?

I t'ink they told them to leif....

6 posted on 07/04/2011 11:52:56 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: trumandogz

“I wonder what those who were living in America for 15,000 years when Erikson arrived would have to say about this?”

- They weren’t Westerners. The Vikings though, were..

Nations like Britain, France, China and Germany are ambitious like Hell.

But in the long run, puny Scandinavia will have a say.


7 posted on 07/04/2011 11:54:07 PM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: Optimus Prime

Interesting analysis.


8 posted on 07/04/2011 11:55:34 PM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: WesternCulture

News flash, there were already people here. Giving credit to either the vikings or Columbus would be like me letting myself into your house while you’re at work and discovering your television set. It was the age of conquest and the stone age Native Americans were no match for my ancestors. The vikings may have been the first Europeans in the New World, but they didn’t have the means to take it, and in the end, that’s all that matters.


9 posted on 07/05/2011 12:05:46 AM PDT by Melas (Sent via Galaxy Tab)
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To: Optimus Prime

We said almost exactly the same thing. Interesting.


10 posted on 07/05/2011 12:07:47 AM PDT by Melas (Sent via Galaxy Tab)
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To: WesternCulture

Columbus changed the world. Leif not so much...


11 posted on 07/05/2011 12:08:47 AM PDT by desertfreedom765
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To: Melas

Good grief, can you read?

“No other Westerner, rightfully, can claim to have discovered America.”

It’s not about who inhabited the Continent first, it’s about competing explorations and discoveries!


12 posted on 07/05/2011 12:09:06 AM PDT by Gene Eric (*** Jesus ***)
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To: WesternCulture

13 posted on 07/05/2011 12:16:02 AM PDT by Lockbar (March toward the sound of the guns.)
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To: Melas

The thing is that Viking/North European knowledge of the World was coherent with that of the Catholic intellectual sphere at the time of Columbus.

Southern Europe (read Rome and the Vatican) simply was being dishonest.

All in all, this conflict is a consequense of Sweden’s military defeat of the Papal troops back in the 17th century.

Don’t you try and f*ck up our history!

It is sacred to us and we will come back at you, claiming dear truth.


14 posted on 07/05/2011 12:18:17 AM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: Optimus Prime

Ha! Exactly what I’ve always thought, but you were much more eloquent!!!


15 posted on 07/05/2011 12:33:19 AM PDT by MacMattico
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To: WesternCulture

Ericson was far from the first person to discover the Americas. There’s a whole genre of literature devoted to the possibility that some other ancient culture may have landed here before the Europeans in the Age of Discovery. From the Chinese, to Arabs, to ancient Egypt, to Phoenicia; but so what? Columbus’s discovery of the New World was only the vanguard of the European expansion, whereby the various nations of the continent explored and colonized the whole world, in the process creating the modern era. Ericson discovered some new lands, and the world went on as before, nothing changed. That’s why Columbus get’s the credit, while Lief unfortunately (for him) gets the historical footnote.


16 posted on 07/05/2011 12:41:45 AM PDT by eclecticEel (Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness: 7/4/1776 - 3/21/2010)
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To: Melas

Relations between European immigrants and American Indians were very mixed. Some big nasties were sometimes played upon the Indians, but sometimes friendships were forged. Indians often tended to be nomadic in North America, not claiming any one spot as their own, while Europeans were more inclined to settle in a fixed locale.

Anyhow, the current system of allotting reservations to Indian tribes, while a seemingly fair compromise, hasn’t turned out all that well for the Indians. They don’t live replicas of their valiant ancestors’ lives; they live in depression and squalor.


17 posted on 07/05/2011 12:50:49 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Hawk)
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To: Optimus Prime

“Point is, it was Columbus’ voyage which opened up the Americas to Europe and changed history. Leiff’s voyage is just a blip which no one took notice of.”

Ericson’s charts were part of the body of the best chart-knowledge when Columbus sailed. The charts showed Columbus there was something there, and that it had and could be reached.

Columbus is credited with being a businessman/sea captain that got finance from Isabella, and assembled the known “science” (charts) of the day—both needed for a successful voyage.

I credit all of the early explorers, for they were amazing people, including their crews.

So Scandinavians can be justifiably proud of Ericson’s part.

At that time, the Scandinavians sailed to many distant places, including the Volga River in Russia, around to the Mediterranean, etc.

Their imprint on history is huge, particularly considering their small numbers.


18 posted on 07/05/2011 12:51:42 AM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: eclecticEel

“There’s a whole genre of literature devoted to the possibility that some other ancient culture may have landed here before the Europeans in the Age of Discovery.”

- I’m so impressed by these possibilities.

Perhaps India invented dynamite and everyone in shitholes like Caracas or Detroit drives around in a nice Volvo like people do in Gothenburg and Stockholm.


19 posted on 07/05/2011 12:51:46 AM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: WesternCulture

With my 100% Scandinavian bloodline, perhaps Leif is a distant relative. :^)


20 posted on 07/05/2011 12:54:10 AM PDT by Diver Dave (Because He Lives, I Can Face Tomorrow)
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To: Gene Eric
Good grief, can you read?

No I just stare at the screen and tap random keys in response. It's a miracle I've lasted this long.

21 posted on 07/05/2011 12:54:22 AM PDT by Melas (Sent via Galaxy Tab)
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To: WesternCulture

How else can you explain red haired “tall” pale skinned “Indians” in Nevada that used weapons that no local Indian had ever seen before. (Like Axes?) - Shields. - Helmets. - Leg protectors. - Wooden chest plates.


22 posted on 07/05/2011 1:17:52 AM PDT by jongaltsr (It)
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To: jongaltsr
LOL, time line, time line, the Spanish plundered what is now Mexico and central and south America, how many years before Jamestown. And where did all those horses and cattle come from. Time line time line.
23 posted on 07/05/2011 2:45:27 AM PDT by org.whodat
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To: WesternCulture
Absolutely untrue! Leif Erickson landed in America, then his group left leaving no influence. It was Columbus who discovered America for Europe. He is the one who brought european science and enlightenment thought to America (at least he brought the antecedants of such). The same cannot be said of Leif Erickson or the indians.

And if the Columbus had not discovered America, the Arabs with their superior seafaring technology (they had the astrolobe, afterall) could have claimed America as their own. A horrific thought that is only coming true in our present times: Obama, Arab American liar

24 posted on 07/05/2011 3:05:12 AM PDT by Stepan12 (Palin & Bolton in 2012)
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To: Stepan12

What about Saint Brendan the Navigator?


25 posted on 07/05/2011 3:09:15 AM PDT by cumbo78
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To: WesternCulture

The Vikings settled briefly in Newfoundland, and there are remains there of their settlement — but it only lasted a few years at most. The natives were apparently not friendly.

Well, it shows that America was just waiting to be “discovered,” and some sort of contact was inevitable.

It is difficult to think of a point at which the contact was peaceful or at all congenial. Surely the Spanish contact was genocidal, lead by a pack of misfits and freebooters, and laying the seeds of prolonged suffering and disaster lasting to modern times.

The New England contacts were initially much more peaceful, but even friendly contacts between greatly differing cultures are difficult to sustain. The King Philip’s War, in which the Indians wiped out several towns, led to an unrestrained war of survival, and poisoned relations between Europeans and the Indians for centuries.

It is difficult to think of most of the early explorers as truly great people, when they had so many moral faults, and were no more advanced in their cruel behavior than the savages they encountered.


26 posted on 07/05/2011 3:57:32 AM PDT by docbnj
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To: jongaltsr

Were there ancient Mormons in Nevada?

;^)

Anyway, Leif Ericson made his contribution to the body of navigational knowledge, no doubt about it.

But was Columbus aiming to reopen Ericson’s discovery of a new land? IIRC, ol’ Chris was sailing westward hoping to reach India and bypass the spice routes that were being waylaid by the Mohammedans.

He even called the natives he encountered “Indians”. Howcum?


27 posted on 07/05/2011 4:41:19 AM PDT by elcid1970 ("Deport Muslims. Nuke Mecca. Death to Islam. Freedom for mankind.")
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To: WesternCulture

His blue eyes and size scared the living crap out of the natives!


28 posted on 07/05/2011 4:44:44 AM PDT by WellyP
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To: WesternCulture

Scandanavia and especially Iceland (where Leif sailed from) was so far removed from the European mainstream in AD 1000 that Leif Ericson’s discovery remained a secret...and a “secret discovery” is a contradiction in terms. Certainly Leif’s discovery is fact, and was an amazing act of courage, but, none-the-less, it wasn’t known to the rest of Europe until 800+ years later.

Saint Brendan (may) have “discovered” America too—100 years before Leif, or even the Egyptians.... so what? All of these, IF they happened, were again of the “secret discovery” variety.

Columbus though, having been sent by a wealthy mainstream European kingdom, got America KNOWN. His was anything BUT a “secret” discovery (though there were educated people, even in Northern Europe, like Dr. Martin Luther, who didn’t believe another two continents were discovered.)

Even after Columbus, it took Northern Europeans another 100 years before they started exploring and settling the newly uncovered lands...(while the Spanish and Portuguese explored, conquered and settled the Caribbean, and Latin America by that time... )

So a “discovery” which remains covered up, for whatever the reasons...cannot really count as a discovery—as in the meaning of the word, things must get known.


29 posted on 07/05/2011 4:45:29 AM PDT by AnalogReigns
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To: WesternCulture

Once again you show yourself to be ignorant.

You wrote:

“Southern Europe (read Rome and the Vatican) simply was being dishonest.”

What on earth are you talking about?

“All in all, this conflict is a consequense of Sweden’s military defeat of the Papal troops back in the 17th century.”

Again, what on earth are you talking about? Are you honestly claiming short lived Swedish victories in the 17th century somehow changed history backwards in time in the 15th century?

And then you have this gem:

“Don’t you try and f*ck up our history!”

No, you’ll just let the Muslims do it for you.


30 posted on 07/05/2011 4:47:05 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Sweden - one of the next Muslim countries)
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To: WesternCulture

Don’t forget, the Natives were almost stone age, 15,000 years behind Europe. They didn’t even have the wheel or the knowledge to forge metals!


31 posted on 07/05/2011 4:47:53 AM PDT by WellyP
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To: WellyP
His blue eyes and size scared the living crap out of the natives!

I'll bet they did!

Oh, wait. Wrong Leif...

32 posted on 07/05/2011 4:49:16 AM PDT by COBOL2Java (Obama is the least qualified guy in whatever room he walks into.)
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To: WesternCulture
America had often been discovered before Columbus, but it had always been hushed up.
-- Oscar Wilde, Irish dramatist, novelist, & poet (1854 - 1900)
33 posted on 07/05/2011 5:16:57 AM PDT by Johnny B.
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To: WesternCulture

Nothing puny about Scandinavia in those days. The Viking expansion was amazing. It was probably fueled by a population explosion in their homeland resulting from the Medieval Warm Period. Norsemen conquered and settled most of Britain, a large part of France, and Sicily, and founded the first Russian state. Much of the population of Britain, Ireland, and Russia has Norse blood, which may account for the daring and aggressive behavior of those nations in later centuries. Part of the problem with the Norse settlements in Greenland and Newfoundland is that they tried to live like Europeans (keeping cattle for example) as the climate drastically cooled as the Little Ice Age approached.


34 posted on 07/05/2011 5:26:04 AM PDT by hellbender
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To: jongaltsr
Try this:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1027699/posts

35 posted on 07/05/2011 5:27:20 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Morgan at Cowpens.)
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To: WesternCulture
Lief never made it known to the civilized world and that is the major part of discovery.
36 posted on 07/05/2011 5:27:46 AM PDT by deadrock
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To: Stepan12

And if the Columbus had not discovered America, the Arabs with their superior seafaring technology (they had the astrolobe, afterall) could have claimed America as their own
What "superior seafaring technology" are you referring to?

BTW, the astrolabe was invented by the Greeks, and the mariner's astrolabe was also invented in Europe. Columbus himself used an astrolabe. AFAICS, the Barbary corsairs didn't make it too far from the North African coast.
37 posted on 07/05/2011 5:32:07 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: WesternCulture

Certainly Ericson “discovered” America, as did many before him. But once Columbus “discovered” America, it stayed discovered.


38 posted on 07/05/2011 5:46:17 AM PDT by T. P. Pole
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To: Optimus Prime
who cares? His discovery never amounted to a hill of beans

Columbus cared. Knowledge of the 'New World' was shared by the sailing culture of Columbus's day. Like almost all human discoveries and advancements, today's discoveries are built on past efforts.

Columbus's voyage opened the 'New World' to exploration because it's time had come. The shipbuilding and seafaring technologies of that day facilitated the accomplishments. Just like the technologies of the mid-20th century facilitated space exploration. It's time had come and the accomplishment was based on hundreds of years of discovery and knowledge.

Leiff Erickson did not lead an occupation of the 'New World' but his efforts left the knowledge for others to use later.

To me, the most interesting thing in the Wikipedia article is "Leif rescued an Icelandic castaway named Thorir and his crew". There were other Norsemen working the 'New World'?? Leif the Lucky kept Thoror's cargo? Maybe Leif is like Columbus. He learned about the 'New World' from others before him.

39 posted on 07/05/2011 5:52:43 AM PDT by CharlyFord
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To: WesternCulture

The diocese of Vinland, established by Leif Ericson’s colonists, was only lost a few mere decades before Columbus.


40 posted on 07/05/2011 5:53:57 AM PDT by dangus
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To: WesternCulture

Then, only a few thousand years later, my great grandfather, Gus Swanson arrived in time to help lay the cobblestones for his adopted homestown’s main street.


41 posted on 07/05/2011 5:54:24 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (Eh ?)
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To: WesternCulture

Bjarni Hurjulfson. No kidding. The sagas of King Olaf, older than the other Norsement sagas, give credit to Bjarni Hurjulfson as early as 985. Ericson’s sagas may have caught the Norse imagination more, because he went as a Christian evangelist in the year 1000 AD.


42 posted on 07/05/2011 6:04:24 AM PDT by dangus
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To: trumandogz
I wonder what those who were living in America for 15,000 years when Erikson arrived would have to say about this?

Go to the casino and find out.

43 posted on 07/05/2011 6:07:36 AM PDT by King Moonracer (Bad lighting and cheap fabric, that's how you sell clothing.....)
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To: dangus

And to this day Norsemen in New Foundland rub and kiss the Bjarni Stone for luck.


44 posted on 07/05/2011 6:16:23 AM PDT by commish (Freedom tastes sweetest to those who have fought to preserve it.)
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To: WesternCulture

Did he bring Smallpox and slaves? No. Then %$#@ him.


45 posted on 07/05/2011 6:19:53 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: WesternCulture

Columbus had better documentation.


46 posted on 07/05/2011 6:22:38 AM PDT by onedoug (If)
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To: trumandogz

——I wonder what those who were living in America for 15,000 years when Erikson arrived would have to say about this?——

Of interest is those already here. At this time, the great American cities in Arizona, New Mwxica and Illinois were on the verge of explosive growth.

The climate must have been very different than now.

The people of whom you speak now live on Hopi Mesa and Zuni and Acoma Pueblos having moved from their cities.


47 posted on 07/05/2011 6:31:43 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. N.C. D.E. +12 ....( History is a process, not an event ))
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To: WesternCulture

Columbus discovered the beautiful Bahamas with sunshine and topless maidens.

Leif found yet another frozen rock.

It’s better in the Bahamas!


48 posted on 07/05/2011 6:35:18 AM PDT by DUMBGRUNT (The best is the enemy of the good!)
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To: T. P. Pole

Always been my point. It Stayed Discovered.

The OP also left out the Portuguese whos fishing boats were crossing the Atlantic looking for Cod for a thousand years before Columbus.

There is also strong evidence for the Portuguese discovering South America long before Columbus, and, that he had their info in hand when he sailed.


49 posted on 07/05/2011 10:07:27 AM PDT by Conan the Librarian (The Best in Life is to crush my enemies, see them driven before me, and the Dewey Decimal System)
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To: Conan the Librarian

That would be ‘whose’.


50 posted on 07/05/2011 10:08:41 AM PDT by Conan the Librarian (The Best in Life is to crush my enemies, see them driven before me, and the Dewey Decimal System)
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