I'll bet they did!
Oh, wait. Wrong Leif...
Posted on 07/04/2011 11:40:41 PM PDT by WesternCulture
America belongs to the Americans.
Yes, but the discovery of America does not belong to silly Southern Europe.
From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leif_Ericson
Viking explorers discovered America. Anyone denying this is selling LIES.
Leif Ericson is the King of all explorers.
No other Westerner, rightfully, can claim to have discovered America.
It's time to see who's who, Columbus.
No I just stare at the screen and tap random keys in response. It's a miracle I've lasted this long.
How else can you explain red haired “tall” pale skinned “Indians” in Nevada that used weapons that no local Indian had ever seen before. (Like Axes?) - Shields. - Helmets. - Leg protectors. - Wooden chest plates.
And if the Columbus had not discovered America, the Arabs with their superior seafaring technology (they had the astrolobe, afterall) could have claimed America as their own. A horrific thought that is only coming true in our present times: Obama, Arab American liar
What about Saint Brendan the Navigator?
The Vikings settled briefly in Newfoundland, and there are remains there of their settlement — but it only lasted a few years at most. The natives were apparently not friendly.
Well, it shows that America was just waiting to be “discovered,” and some sort of contact was inevitable.
It is difficult to think of a point at which the contact was peaceful or at all congenial. Surely the Spanish contact was genocidal, lead by a pack of misfits and freebooters, and laying the seeds of prolonged suffering and disaster lasting to modern times.
The New England contacts were initially much more peaceful, but even friendly contacts between greatly differing cultures are difficult to sustain. The King Philip’s War, in which the Indians wiped out several towns, led to an unrestrained war of survival, and poisoned relations between Europeans and the Indians for centuries.
It is difficult to think of most of the early explorers as truly great people, when they had so many moral faults, and were no more advanced in their cruel behavior than the savages they encountered.
Were there ancient Mormons in Nevada?
;^)
Anyway, Leif Ericson made his contribution to the body of navigational knowledge, no doubt about it.
But was Columbus aiming to reopen Ericson’s discovery of a new land? IIRC, ol’ Chris was sailing westward hoping to reach India and bypass the spice routes that were being waylaid by the Mohammedans.
He even called the natives he encountered “Indians”. Howcum?
His blue eyes and size scared the living crap out of the natives!
Scandanavia and especially Iceland (where Leif sailed from) was so far removed from the European mainstream in AD 1000 that Leif Ericson’s discovery remained a secret...and a “secret discovery” is a contradiction in terms. Certainly Leif’s discovery is fact, and was an amazing act of courage, but, none-the-less, it wasn’t known to the rest of Europe until 800+ years later.
Saint Brendan (may) have “discovered” America too—100 years before Leif, or even the Egyptians.... so what? All of these, IF they happened, were again of the “secret discovery” variety.
Columbus though, having been sent by a wealthy mainstream European kingdom, got America KNOWN. His was anything BUT a “secret” discovery (though there were educated people, even in Northern Europe, like Dr. Martin Luther, who didn’t believe another two continents were discovered.)
Even after Columbus, it took Northern Europeans another 100 years before they started exploring and settling the newly uncovered lands...(while the Spanish and Portuguese explored, conquered and settled the Caribbean, and Latin America by that time... )
So a “discovery” which remains covered up, for whatever the reasons...cannot really count as a discovery—as in the meaning of the word, things must get known.
Once again you show yourself to be ignorant.
You wrote:
“Southern Europe (read Rome and the Vatican) simply was being dishonest.”
What on earth are you talking about?
“All in all, this conflict is a consequense of Sweden’s military defeat of the Papal troops back in the 17th century.”
Again, what on earth are you talking about? Are you honestly claiming short lived Swedish victories in the 17th century somehow changed history backwards in time in the 15th century?
And then you have this gem:
“Don’t you try and f*ck up our history!”
No, you’ll just let the Muslims do it for you.
Don’t forget, the Natives were almost stone age, 15,000 years behind Europe. They didn’t even have the wheel or the knowledge to forge metals!
I'll bet they did!
Oh, wait. Wrong Leif...
Nothing puny about Scandinavia in those days. The Viking expansion was amazing. It was probably fueled by a population explosion in their homeland resulting from the Medieval Warm Period. Norsemen conquered and settled most of Britain, a large part of France, and Sicily, and founded the first Russian state. Much of the population of Britain, Ireland, and Russia has Norse blood, which may account for the daring and aggressive behavior of those nations in later centuries. Part of the problem with the Norse settlements in Greenland and Newfoundland is that they tried to live like Europeans (keeping cattle for example) as the climate drastically cooled as the Little Ice Age approached.
What "superior seafaring technology" are you referring to?
And if the Columbus had not discovered America, the Arabs with their superior seafaring technology (they had the astrolobe, afterall) could have claimed America as their own
Certainly Ericson “discovered” America, as did many before him. But once Columbus “discovered” America, it stayed discovered.
Columbus cared. Knowledge of the 'New World' was shared by the sailing culture of Columbus's day. Like almost all human discoveries and advancements, today's discoveries are built on past efforts.
Columbus's voyage opened the 'New World' to exploration because it's time had come. The shipbuilding and seafaring technologies of that day facilitated the accomplishments. Just like the technologies of the mid-20th century facilitated space exploration. It's time had come and the accomplishment was based on hundreds of years of discovery and knowledge.
Leiff Erickson did not lead an occupation of the 'New World' but his efforts left the knowledge for others to use later.
To me, the most interesting thing in the Wikipedia article is "Leif rescued an Icelandic castaway named Thorir and his crew". There were other Norsemen working the 'New World'?? Leif the Lucky kept Thoror's cargo? Maybe Leif is like Columbus. He learned about the 'New World' from others before him.
The diocese of Vinland, established by Leif Ericson’s colonists, was only lost a few mere decades before Columbus.
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