Skip to comments.More Signs Of Eurozone Disintegration, As Denmark Throws Up New Blocks At The Border
Posted on 07/05/2011 9:49:31 AM PDT by lbryce
The newest threat to the eurozone may be coming from the North.
This morning, Denmark reintroduced customs checkpoints on its borders with Germany and Sweden, in a move that threatens the integrity of passport-free travel within the EU.
The European Commission is up in arms over Denmark's actions, saying that it will "take all necessary steps" to enforce EU law.
Since its adoption in 1995, the Schengen accord has allowed people and goods to move freely among most European countries. Proponents of the treaty tout its positive influence on trade:
According to FT columnist Andrew Hall: "Among the first beneficiaries of the lifting of continental European border controls in the early 1990s were trucking companies and their customers...The more clogged the frontier, the less profitable the cross-border traders."
But the treaty has recently come under criticism, particularly in the wake of popular uprisings in Tunisia and Libya which have sent a stream of French-speaking migrants to Italy and France. These two countries angered Europe by temporarily suspending the Schengen treaty in May.
Denmark has increasingly been criticized for its "open and hostile atmosphere towards Muslim groups." The Danish government says the new customs controls are really meant to prevent the entrance of organized crime gangs from eastern Europe, and not an influx of Muslim immigrants.
(Excerpt) Read more at businessinsider.com ...
Expect New Hampshire to put up immigration check points at the Massachusetts border any day now.
>>That Denmark must resort to curtailing the freedoms, human rights as granted by the EU indicates<<
That is just silly. Travel between countries is not a “human right.” Denmark is merely reasserting its sovereignty. The EU was hoping it could mimic the success of the USA by having its countries pretend to be States and the EU be the Federal Government.
But the EU charter isn’t the US Constitution, the countries are not States, there is no Texas v. White to clarify their roles. Look at what Greece did to the entirety.
The EU is disintegrating as a cohesive unit — not from islam (although that is certainly playing a part since most muslims are on the dole pulling the whole thing down), but from the fact that it could not possibly succeed: economically, politically, historically nor militarily. It was an idea as DOA as Communism.
What do you expect? The Idiots let the Muslim Hordes in in Masses to Invade, rape,loot,plunder and Murder.
>>The EU was hoping it could mimic the success of the USA by having its countries pretend to be States and the EU be the Federal Government.<<
Uh oh. When will they have their civil war?
FWIW, once I realized how it worked in the US before the civil war, it hit me that this is pretty much exactly where they are going in the EU. It is the US back when governors were more powerful than the president.
There, I fixed it.
>>Uh oh. When will they have their civil war?
FWIW, once I realized how it worked in the US before the civil war, it hit me that this is pretty much exactly where they are going in the EU. It is the US back when governors were more powerful than the president.<<
Again, the analogy doesn’t hold. They don’t have anything from which to secede. EU participation is more like a treaty — if a country just walks away it is a contract issue. The USA, pre-Civil War was always a Union. Again, that was clarified in Texas V. White: The USA is an indivisible country made up of indivisible States. When States joined the Union, it was forever (that was the deal — it is a different thread on right of secession, State’s Rights and the like).
The USA is no analogy for the EU participation model.
Well, perhaps the organized crime gangs and the Muslims are one and the same. It’s kind of like fighting the drug cartels and Mexican illegals at the same time.
Its the Weekly Standard line borrowed from their leftist upbring, all European nations must be reduced.
That helps, but doesn’t change the underlying issue. If a country asserts its sovereignty, what recourse does the EU have?
The EU was destined to fall — it is just happening a little sooner than anyone thought.
EU = Articles of Confederation
Can’t disagree. We’re on the same side. :-)
I hope the “Home of the Brave” will follow the example of tiny Holland.
I need more coffee. When I read the title: “Denmark throws up new blocks”, I thought it was a public health warning about a new kind of stomach flu.
The **EMU** is a different matter entirely, and is doomed, probably sooner than later. Eurocurrency will fail generally for the **lack** of economic cohesion among the economies of the assorted member nations. Imagine if Texas were broadly capitalist, California broadly socialist, NY broadly crony capitalist, North Dakota broadly mercantilist, and so forth, to a greater degree than today. That's what you have today in the economies of Wonderland (my private name for the Eurozone).
As another poster noted, this is a straightforward matter of sovereignity. What is EU going to do about it, except exact some sort of petty punishment? Not one damned thing. If the PC bozos of the Euro-ruling elite can't get it into their heads that open borders and "multiculturalism" are simply slow-acting death warrants for a nation, then, yes, EU will fall.
If, contrarily, the assorted populations of the various EU member nations (essentially) force the pointy-heads to abandon these two idiotic propositions (the Dutch have already shit-canned the multi-culti bs), then there is no reason why EU, as a political entity, cannot survive.
Have to find some means of getting shut of their excess, uh, Amish populations though.
>>The EU need not fall, ever, if the EC will lift the heavy hand of the Eurocrats in Brussles. Far stranger political unions (think Holy Roman Empire) have lasted far longer than the EU.<<
But look at the cracks already appearing. Greece’s economy France’s re-emerging (thank God) Conservatism, Denmark’s isolationism.
Europe ain’t the Roman Empire. Too many interests, to much cultural pride (are there any neighbor cultures more diverse than Spain, Germany, France and Portugal in the world?).
The EU will fall. Soon.
Mark my words. It never made sense and it won’t hold. There are no Roman Legions, even in small number, to keep the city/states in line. There is just Bluster in Brussels.
As each EU member sees that it is NOT in their interest to remain in it, they will pull out, either directly (by dictate) or indirectly (by action).
The EU makes no practical sense in the modern world.
Our worry should be that the USA is rushing to become the EU (diverse cultures and languages, socialism as a economic basis) while the EU’s failing experiment is crashing against the rocks.
Very good point. Chechens figure prominently in Russian organized crime.
As to "cracks already appearing", I cannot even count the number of FReepers who have referred to 'the next civil war' or 'CW2' in the past year or so. The same sorts of terms appear constantly, albeit much more profanely as a rule, on the lefty boards and blogs. "Cracks" are an everywhere, all-the-time phenomenon in most nations where there is even a modicum of freedom of communication.
Ain't gonna happen. That's as silly as suggesting that Germany might invade Fr
>>please note that I did not argue that EU would NOT fall, merely that there was no need for it to do so. The principal question for Wonderland is: will the Eurocrats take their fat thumbs off the scale. The answer that eventuates will also be the answer to EU survival.<<
A difference without a distinction. There is a need for it to fall since there is no need for it to exist. I repeat my earlier argument that the EU is a pathetic attempt to emulate the USA, substituting countries for states. It is not possible for that model to succeed.
Are you saying it can succeed? If so, please say why. If there is something in the EU construct that creates a USA-style federalism, I have missed it.
>>As to “cracks already appearing”, I cannot even count the number of FReepers who have referred to ‘the next civil war’ or ‘CW2’ in the past year or so. The same sorts of terms appear constantly, albeit much more profanely as a rule, on the lefty boards and blogs. “Cracks” are an everywhere, all-the-time phenomenon in most nations where there is even a modicum of freedom of communication.<<
How a USA “CW2” reactionistic backlash to the current administration’s abuse of power relates to the very real riots in Greece and now Denmark’s closing of her borders is beyond my ken.
The first is conceptual, the latter physical.
And France has shown its quick ability to throw a country-wide tantrum whenever government exercises its power to control the economy.
The EU cracks are quite real. The CW2 analogy conceptual (for the moment).
The author is whining. I find it Refreshing to read about at least some country interested in securing it’s border.
The notion of any political union "needing to exist" is curious in the extreme. Political unions, speaking historically, come into existence to fill an actual or perceived political void, or to unite assorted peoples against a common threat, the latter reason being perhaps more common historically, or to attempt to bring some amount of order to a chaotic political and/or economic situation.
I would suggest that the formation of the EU was a response to the third condition above, with a chunk of the second condition thrown in; post-WW II Europe was nothing if not chaotic, both economically and politically, and the first response was the Franco-German Iron and Steel pact of the 1950s. The common enemy bit was, of course, the Warsaw Pact, but the Europeans had the luxury of the US having their back (and front, and sides), and so were quite leisurely in their response to the political threat.
Naturally, the political class being the political class, a simple commercial pact evolved over time into something considerably more grotesque. No, I'm not referring to EU, I'm referring to ERM, the infamous and thoroughly bungled European Rate Mechanism, which was torpedoed by the perceived self-interest of, of ALL peoples, the Germans.
Having failed outright in this piece of madness, the pointy-heads simply couldn't resist having another go, to wit, Maastricht. The reasons, absent the by-then-deceased Warsaw Pact, were the very same as in the 1950s, although made more complex by the addition of more players.
You should take a look at the European "Constitution" sometime. It is arguably the most self-important, prolix, intrusive and incompetent set of organisational "principles" ever set to paper. Anything you care to name is wrong with this screwy document.
However, that said, it can be fixed to the point where it would be acceptable to (almost) all the EU members. All that is necessary is for the political class -- ideally, with guns to their respective heads -- to remove the 70-odd percent of the document that is overreaching, antidemocratic, disrespective of personal liberties and blatantly contralogical.
Will the political class do this, will they (pardon my metaphor previously) take their collective and collectivist thumbs off the scales? Probably not. If not, then we're agreed: Wonderland is in for another great war, or at minimum a couple of decades of upheavals. If, however, they would, the EU can exist for an indefinite time.
The monetary system, EMU, is toast no matter how it is sliced. Milton Friedman said as much, pointedly, in 1995 and 1997, and he was absolutely spot on. Reading his essays on the subject will repay you or anyone very handsomely, the more so in that he was an excellent and very clear writer.
>>As previously noted, we shall have to agree to disagree.<<
And I appreciate that. You have a perspective, which you clarified very well.
I am not sure you are making your point more than mine, but we might be discussing it from a different angle.
My take: the EU will crumble. Not in historical epoch speed but in the next few years.
My understanding of your take: It will hang in there for the long haul, despite its problems. You just add the Monetary system will dissolve.
From the latter, I propose my former. In the absence of a singular monetary model, the political model cannot stand.
I need to add that lately on FR, many discussions leave the issues and enter the personal. I appreciate your excellent analysis and respect for mine.
We can (and should?) debate the points of our respective perspectives of the EU (and, by extension the EMU). It is gratifying to see someone as erudite and informed as you.
I ain’t changing my prediction — I am acknowledging that you provide significant food for thought :)
So the motto for NH is: “Live Free Or Die”, while the motto for MA is: “TRY and live free and you’ll DIE!”