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U.S. Officials Behind 'Fast and Furious' Gun Sales Should Be Tried in Mexico, Lawmaker Says
Fox News ^ | July 05, 2011 | William La Jeunesse

Posted on 07/05/2011 4:23:56 PM PDT by moonshinner_09

While the investigation continues into the U.S. operation that helped send thousands of guns south of the border, Mexican lawmakers say they'll press for extradition and prosecution in Mexico of American officials who authorized and ran the operation.

"I obviously feel violated. I feel my country's sovereignty was violated," Mexico Sen. Rene Arce Islas told Fox News. "They should be tried in the United States and the Mexican government should also demand that they also be tried in Mexico since the incidents took place here. There should be trials in both places."

Arce is chairman of Mexico's Commission for National Security, a congressional panel similar to the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee.

His point of view is shared by many Mexican politicians, including Sen. Santiago Creel, a former Interior Minister and the likely presidential nominee next year of the National Action Party to succeed Felipe Calderone, also of PAN.

"I think we should at least try to prove that what happened in Mexico must be sanctioned by Mexican laws and under our sovereignty," Creel told us. "What can't happen is that this now ends on an administrative sanction, or a resignation. No, no, no. Human lives were lost here. A decision was made to carry out an operation that brought very high risk to human lives."

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Mexico; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: atf; buildthefence; gunwalker; immigration; mexico; mx; sodomhusseinobama
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Cannot wait to see how fearless leader handels this.
1 posted on 07/05/2011 4:23:59 PM PDT by moonshinner_09
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To: moonshinner_09

He’ll handle it as soon as he manages to clean his pants out.


2 posted on 07/05/2011 4:26:02 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: moonshinner_09

What we need is a scapegoat. Eric Holder will do :)


3 posted on 07/05/2011 4:27:19 PM PDT by chesley (Eat what you want, and die like a man.)
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To: moonshinner_09

This is funny in a perverse way, since Obama and Holder are big fans of international courts for our soldiers, and other forms of subordinating our sovereignty to international groups. But now, the shoe is on the other foot, as it is their policies that caused the problem!


4 posted on 07/05/2011 4:27:29 PM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
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To: moonshinner_09

LOL!!


5 posted on 07/05/2011 4:28:45 PM PDT by Charlespg
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To: moonshinner_09

Bump.


6 posted on 07/05/2011 4:30:26 PM PDT by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: The flash mob who wonÂ’t leave.)
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To: moonshinner_09

Mexico should take this to the world court. DumBO believes that the world court trumps U.S. law.


7 posted on 07/05/2011 4:32:22 PM PDT by depressed in 06 (I'll follow Allen West out of hell.)
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To: moonshinner_09

I’m still finding it hard to believe Mexico, at least at the highest level, wasn’t in on the scam. They were trumpeting the 90% lie, right along with our anti-gun pols and our mediots. To me, that suggests they all had a huddle beforehand.


8 posted on 07/05/2011 4:35:20 PM PDT by FlyVet
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To: moonshinner_09

Turning Holder over to Mexico to be tried in a Mexican court and serve time in a Mexican prison would send a priceless chill through the ranks of progressive schemers. Not a chance it would happen.


9 posted on 07/05/2011 4:38:45 PM PDT by theBuckwheat
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To: moonshinner_09

I think prosecution (under President Palin) should go for death penalty for Holder. Anyway, I’m fine simply extraditing Holder and his cronies to Mexico. This is in line with the international position of Holder et co.

I hope Mexico issues international arrest warrant via Interpol. He should feel hunted down and in danger of arrest anywhere he goes for the rest of his life.

I think he is an exception, the most disgusting figure in Obama’s admin. He lied under oath to Congress about Clinton’s pardons, started witch hunt against Bush era officials and CIA agents, instituted openly racist policy at DOJ and is responsible of secret government program for weapons trade and is accessory for murder (and lied about it).

“Holder, how many people you killed today??”


10 posted on 07/05/2011 4:39:08 PM PDT by heiss
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To: moonshinner_09

Um, no. We’re not going to try American citizens in Mexico.


11 posted on 07/05/2011 4:42:27 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. *4192*)
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To: moonshinner_09

Karmageddon!

Oh this is fantastic! And for once, the Mexican Pols are right.

But watch Obama say “We’ll rant amnesty for illegals if you back of extradition over gunrunner.”

Or was that his plan to begin with?


12 posted on 07/05/2011 4:43:21 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart
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To: Pearls Before Swine
Yes, here's a marvelous opportunity for a "demonstration project" to see how those international/transnational court thingies work.

Shades of LBJ!

13 posted on 07/05/2011 4:44:07 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: BuckeyeTexan
We’re not going to try American citizens in Mexico.

So I guess you're in favor of us not trying Mexican citizens in the US then. Right?

L

14 posted on 07/05/2011 4:44:28 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: BuckeyeTexan

Of course we are. These are the guys who want to try American citizens all over the place. Let them go first.


15 posted on 07/05/2011 4:45:46 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: moonshinner_09

Including Obama!!!! I’d pop corn to watch that one.


16 posted on 07/05/2011 4:46:30 PM PDT by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: moonshinner_09

Absolutely correct. What the DOJ did amounted to an undeclared “kinetic military action” against Mexico and Mexican residents/nationals using what amount to paramilitary forces.

Does anyone doubt, for even an instant, that the US government would just sit still if the Mexican government started arming American extremists - such as the white supremacists - by funneling arms into the U.S. through illicit channels, just to see if they could “track” those arms to crimes committed in the U.S.?


17 posted on 07/05/2011 4:46:51 PM PDT by Oceander (The phrase "good enough for government work" is not meant as a compliment)
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To: Lurker

If they committed their crime in Mexico, they shouldn’t be tried in the U.S. Mexico has jurisdiction over them. Likewise, American citizens committing crimes in the U.S. shouldn’t be turned over to Mexico.


18 posted on 07/05/2011 4:49:51 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. *4192*)
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To: muawiyah

No damn way. The U.S. has jurisdiction over these crimes.


19 posted on 07/05/2011 4:52:13 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. *4192*)
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To: BuckeyeTexan
Likewise, American citizens committing crimes in the U.S. shouldn’t be turned over to Mexico.

It's called "extradition" and it's a legal concept that's been around well over a hundred years. I suggest you look into it. If Mexico issues arrest warrants for the Government officials involved in this affair the US is treaty bound to turn them over for trial in Mexico.

If they committed their crime in Mexico, they shouldn’t be tried in the U.S.

That's not the way it works. All it will take is for one Mexican Court to issue an arrest warrant for the head of the ATF or for AG Holder and then demand their extradition. We do it to Mexico every single day.

L

20 posted on 07/05/2011 4:53:56 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: BuckeyeTexan
They conspired to break Mexican laws. That gives Mexico jurisdiction over this legally. If you disagree I suggest you read up on our little adventure in Panama a few years back.

There's a certain former Panamanian President who's now residing in a US Federal prison for doing almost exactly what AG Holder did except for the fact that it was guns instead of drugs.

L

21 posted on 07/05/2011 4:56:40 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Pearls Before Swine

Yep, let’s see how the internationalists in the CasaBlanca handle this one!


22 posted on 07/05/2011 4:57:15 PM PDT by Travis McGee (Castigo Cay is in print and on Kindle.)
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To: moonshinner_09

The Mexicans have a great idea here, and we should comply. Just as soon as the Black Panther voting intimidation case is settled and the $1.65 Trillion deficit is addressed, we’ll be able to send the clow.... I mean, Fast&Furious officials, down South..


23 posted on 07/05/2011 5:05:25 PM PDT by C210N (0bama, Making the US safe for Global Marxism)
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To: moonshinner_09

Hey Senator Islas, first let me say I find it remarkable that it’s possible to feel violated in Mexico. I should think just being Mexican would be violation enough. And secondly, I feel violated every time your people break into my country you little worm.


24 posted on 07/05/2011 5:08:53 PM PDT by jmacusa (Political correctness is cultural Marxism. I'm not a Marxist.)
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To: moonshinner_09

25 posted on 07/05/2011 5:09:24 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: moonshinner_09
"I obviously feel violated. I feel my country's sovereignty was violated," Mexico Sen. Rene Arce Islas told Fox News.

Welcome to the party pal. DC violates every countries sovereignty. Including the sovereignty of the United States.

26 posted on 07/05/2011 5:09:27 PM PDT by justa-hairyape
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To: Lurker
It's called "extradition" and it's a legal concept that's been around well over a hundred years. I suggest you look into it.

We don't extradite American citizens to Mexico for crimes committed in the U.S. I suggest you look it up.

All it will take is for one Mexican Court to issue an arrest warrant for the head of the ATF or for AG Holder and then demand their extradition.

B.S. We won't turn over anyone to Mexico who needs to be tried here first. Mexico can issue all the warrants they want but they won't get anyone until we're finished with them. Even then I doubt we'd extradite in this case.

27 posted on 07/05/2011 5:10:24 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. *4192*)
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To: BuckeyeTexan
The Mexicans claim that 150 local officials, etc. have been killed with them.

They have jurisdiction over those crimes.

Holder needs International Justice.

28 posted on 07/05/2011 5:12:33 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: BuckeyeTexan
We don't extradite American citizens to Mexico for crimes committed in the U.S.

Conspiring to smuggle weapons into Mexico is a crime in Mexico my friend.It doesn't matter where the conspiracy took place. You lose.

By your thinking Noriega would still be President of Panama.

Even then I doubt we'd extradite in this case.

I bet President Palin would sign off on it in a heartbeat.

29 posted on 07/05/2011 5:14:15 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Lurker
They sold guns to straw purchasers in the U.S. They didn't transport the guns to Mexico themselves. Which Mexican laws did they conspire to break?

Totally different situation with Noriega. We invaded Panama. He was a POW. Last I checked, Mexico hasn't (officially) invaded the U.S. If they do and they capture Holder ... well, they can have him. Until then, they can try him in abstentia because they're not getting him from us.

The 1989 invasion of Panama by the United States removed him from power; he was captured, detained as a prisoner of war, and flown to the United States. Noriega was tried on eight counts of drug trafficking, racketeering, and money laundering in April 1992. Noriega's U.S. prison sentence ended in September 2007; pending the outcome of extradition requests by both Panama and France, for convictions in absentia for murder in 1995 and money laundering in 1999, respectively. France was granted its extradition request in April 2010. He arrived in Paris on April 27, 2010, and after a re-trial as a condition of the extradition, he was found guilty and sentenced to seven years in jail in July 2010.

30 posted on 07/05/2011 5:23:19 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. *4192*)
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To: muawiyah

Conservatism 101: International law doesn’t trump the U.S. Constitution.


31 posted on 07/05/2011 5:28:35 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. *4192*)
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To: Lurker
By your thinking Noriega would still be President of Panama.

Noriega was captured as a POW. Then he was tried in the U.S. if Mexico wants to invade the U.S. and capture Holder as a POW. They can do whatever the hell they want with him.

I bet President Palin would sign off on it in a heartbeat.

I doubt it. She'd uphold the Constitution first. That implies she'd try Holder here first before considering extradition.

32 posted on 07/05/2011 5:33:17 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. *4192*)
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To: moonshinner_09

Senator Arce should start with Dick Obama, and then Eric Holder.


33 posted on 07/05/2011 5:47:02 PM PDT by FlyingEagle
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To: moonshinner_09; John Semmens
"I obviously feel violated. I feel my country's sovereignty was violated," Mexico Sen. Rene Arce Islas told Fox News.

This quote made me check to see if it was one of John's!

34 posted on 07/05/2011 5:54:34 PM PDT by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: BuckeyeTexan
We’re not going to try American citizens in Mexico.

Obama is probably not a natural born citizen but he is obviously behind the scheme to dump guns into Mexico. If Obama can't prove he's a citizen, I vote to send him to Mexico.

Holder is a pawn in Obama's Watergate.

35 posted on 07/05/2011 5:55:50 PM PDT by politicianslie (Democrats are COMMUNISTS, Repubs are SOCIALISTS, and Barry is a Muslim manipulating USEFUL IDIOTS)
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To: moonshinner_09

If this were a just world, both Obama and Holder would be on trial in Mexico and sentenced to life.


36 posted on 07/05/2011 5:57:58 PM PDT by kittymyrib
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To: BuckeyeTexan
We invaded Panama.

Yes, we did. Now go learn why we didi it.

He was a POW.

Then why was he in a Federal prison after the cessation of hostilities? Wasn't the war over?

You're wrong. Just admit it and move on.

37 posted on 07/05/2011 6:03:46 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: politicianslie
If Obama can't prove he's a citizen, I vote to send him to Mexico.

Me too, FRiend. (I'm only half kidding.)

38 posted on 07/05/2011 6:04:21 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. *4192*)
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To: Pearls Before Swine
Bachmann could make a big deal out of this and it would go a long way with Conservatives. She could announce that Her administration would investigate & prosecute this crime to the highest levels.

I recall zer0 making similar statements about Cheney, It sure fired up the wackos

39 posted on 07/05/2011 6:04:26 PM PDT by reefdiver ("Let His day's be few And another takes His office")
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks moonshinner_09.
"I obviously feel violated. I feel my country's sovereignty was violated," Mexico Sen. Rene Arce Islas told Fox News.
The entire government of Mexico, including this joker, should be tried for corruption and the various crimes against humanity being carried out with his tacit approval by the drug gangs. OTOH, if Holder and Zero are the ones put on trial, then I'm okay with it.


40 posted on 07/05/2011 6:10:31 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Lurker
Yes, we did. Now go learn why we didi it.

PDF interfered in our freedom of movement exercises and regularly harassed our troops and citizens.

Then why was he in a Federal prison after the cessation of hostilities? Wasn't the war over?

Under Article 85 of the Third Geneva Convention, Noriega is still considered a prisoner of war, despite his conviction for acts committed prior to his capture by the "detaining power" (the United States). This status has meant that in Florida he had his own prison cell furnished with electronics and exercise equipment. His cell had been nicknamed "the presidential suite".

You're wrong. Just admit it and move on.

That's my advice to you. The difference between Noriega and Holder is monumental. Panama didn't extradite Noriega to us. We captured him. Mexico is free to issue warrants against our citizens and try them in abstentia for any crimes they believe our citizens committed but that doesn't mean we have to or should extradite said citizens.

41 posted on 07/05/2011 6:20:50 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. *4192*)
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To: BuckeyeTexan
That, by itself, doesn't mean we have to extradite Holder and/or Obama to Mexico ~ but there's really no good reason to NOT do that.

Mexico doesn't have an official death penalty whereas Texas does. To the degree any of those crimes were commited in whole or in part in Texas then Texas would be forced to execute them both.

They have a much better chance with Mexico. They should start packing now. Get in while the getting is good.

42 posted on 07/05/2011 6:54:12 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: moonshinner_09

Extradite Holder!


43 posted on 07/05/2011 7:09:08 PM PDT by UnwashedPeasant (Don't nuke me, bro)
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To: Lurker
I've only been pointing out our Extradition Treaty with Mexico for the past two weeks.

The ATF committed crimes against Mexico and nothing is being done about it on this side (US) of the border.

44 posted on 07/05/2011 7:58:58 PM PDT by Deaf Smith (I spent all my money on women & booze, the other rest I just plain blew.)
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To: BuckeyeTexan
but that doesn't mean we have to or should extradite said citizens.

Actually we do have to. Here's a link to the US-Mexican Extradition Treaty.

L

45 posted on 07/05/2011 8:03:32 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: moonshinner_09

I have to agree with them, send them to rot in
Mexico.

I’d bet some of them would talk their heads of
to avoid that.


46 posted on 07/05/2011 8:04:09 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: moonshinner_09

Extradite Holder and Zero? Where do I sign up to help?


47 posted on 07/05/2011 8:05:51 PM PDT by Colonel_Flagg ("Mr. Romney and Mr. Obama are not rivals, they're running mates." - Rep. Thaddeus McCotter)
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To: Lurker
I was mistaken, it has been the past four weeks.

Saturday, June 04, 2011 8:34:41 AM · 13 of 19 Deaf Smith to eyeamok " it is nothing but a dog and pony show." Easy enough. Give pertaining evidence of deaths in Mexico tied to the guns to the Mexican authorities. Let the Mexican government issue arrest warrants & extradition papers on the ATF agents. The ATF agents would turn on Holder & Hussein very quickly vs risking Mexican prisons.

48 posted on 07/05/2011 8:20:34 PM PDT by Deaf Smith (I spent all my money on women & booze, the other rest I just plain blew.)
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To: Pearls Before Swine
"... as it is their policies that caused the problem!"

...as it is their policies that caused the ATROCITY! I wish that word was used more, instead of "tragedy". Whenever it is a person that has committed a heinous act, the word ATROCITY should ALWAYS be used!

49 posted on 07/05/2011 8:52:25 PM PDT by jackibutterfly (The American Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.)
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To: Lurker

But you didn’t actually read that treaty, right? No, because if you did, you’d realize that there are certain restrictions on extradition between the U.S. and Mexico. Namely, we don’t have to extradite our own nationals (citizens). It’s up to us to decide if we will or not. Mexico does not extradite its citizens but agrees to prosecute them itself if appropriate. It’s called a jurisdictional restriction on extradition.

For all those on this thread who would so willingly turn over an American citzen to Mexico, you might want to apply that logic to yourself or your children and then decide if in that circumstance you’d want to be governed by the Constitution of the United States or by international law.

I cannot believe I’m having this discussion with any FReeper.


50 posted on 07/06/2011 4:02:37 AM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. *4192*)
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