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Pa. family on trial over seized gold coins;US says 1933 “double eagles” stolen from mint
AP via WAPO ^ | 07/06/2011 | staff

Posted on 07/06/2011 6:42:48 PM PDT by Kid Shelleen

A jeweler’s heirs with a cache of rare $20 gold coins will fight for the right to keep them when they square off in court this week against the U.S. Treasury.

Treasury officials charge that the never-circulated “double eagles” were stolen from the U.S. Mint in Philadelphia in 1933. They could be worth $80 million or more, given that one sold for nearly $7.6 million in 2002. The coins come from a batch that were struck but melted down after President Franklin D. Roosevelt took the country off the gold standard in 1933

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: doubleeagles; gold; goldcoins; usmint
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1 posted on 07/06/2011 6:42:51 PM PDT by Kid Shelleen
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To: Kid Shelleen

Even if they were stolen, isn’t there a statute of limitations?


2 posted on 07/06/2011 6:45:07 PM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
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To: Kid Shelleen

“...after President Franklin D. Roosevelt took the country off the gold standard in 1933...”

Uh, nice try AP.

What the stinking, stupid, socialist bastard did was outlaw the private ownership of gold, orchestrate banking “holidays” to get control of deposit boxes, and then mandated that a banking officer be present whenever a deposit box was opened and to confiscate all gold.

Also, he did not take us off the gold standard. He cut back the gold reserve to dollar ratio. It was Nixon who finally took us off the gold standard completely.


3 posted on 07/06/2011 6:48:51 PM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Prepare for survival.)
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To: Kid Shelleen

The coins are being held in Fort Knox. They may actually represent the only gold currency of any worth in that place.


4 posted on 07/06/2011 6:49:01 PM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (If you think it's time to bury your weapons.....it's time to dig them up.)
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To: Pearls Before Swine
Even if they were stolen, isn’t there a statute of limitations?

There may be a statute of limitations on prosecuting them for theft, but AFAIK there's no statute of limitations on seizing the stolen goods and returning them to their rightful owner.

5 posted on 07/06/2011 6:49:42 PM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's called the "Statue of Liberty" and not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: Kid Shelleen

“...went to the U.S. Treasury to authenticate the coins...”

Whatta’ya? Kidden’ me????

How stupid do you have to be???


6 posted on 07/06/2011 6:50:27 PM PDT by G Larry (I dream of a day when a man is judged by the content of his character)
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To: FreedomCalls
There may be a statute of limitations on prosecuting them for theft, but AFAIK there's no statute of limitations on seizing the stolen goods and returning them to their rightful owner.

Wasn't OJ operating under that theory, trying to recover his stolen memorabilia? He's in jail now.

7 posted on 07/06/2011 6:53:18 PM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
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To: Pearls Before Swine

Sounds like it the government’s case to prove they were stolen, i.e. that absolutely none of them were sent out for circulation. It will be the heir’s burden that the coins were obtained legally.


8 posted on 07/06/2011 6:55:10 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Islam is the religion of Satan and Mohammed was his minion.)
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To: Pearls Before Swine

When the hyper greedy, rapacious federal government wants what you have, there is no statute of limitations or protection. That the country bequeathed to us by the Founders has been reduced to this by generations of disgusting politicians from across the political spectrum with barely a whimper from the people is beyond tragic.


9 posted on 07/06/2011 6:55:36 PM PDT by Wolfstar ("If you would win a man to your cause, first convince him that you are his friend." Abraham Lincoln)
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To: Kid Shelleen
Treasury officials charge that the never-circulated “double eagles” were stolen from the U.S. Mint in Philadelphia in 1933. They could be worth $80 million or more, given that one sold for nearly $7.6 million in 2002. The coins come from a batch that were struck but melted down after President Franklin D. Roosevelt took the country off the gold standard in 1933

Ping for later

10 posted on 07/06/2011 7:11:32 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Posting news feeds, making eyes bleed: he's hated on seven continents)
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To: Kid Shelleen

And no one thinks they’re not capable of stealing everything you have—all they have to do is just saying “mine”.


11 posted on 07/06/2011 7:16:21 PM PDT by WKUHilltopper (And yet...we continue to tolerate this crap...)
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To: Wolfstar

Agree. The “government” needs the money - they have become like Hal in “2001 A Space Odyssey.” Created to “help” but ultimately see it in their own best interests to destroy and confiscate to continue their survival.


12 posted on 07/06/2011 7:17:56 PM PDT by khnyny (Our government has become Hal in "2001 A Space Odyssey")
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To: Kid Shelleen

Sounds like an inside job.


13 posted on 07/06/2011 7:22:16 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open ( <o> ---)
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To: Kid Shelleen

This is a tough call, because the government doesn’t deserve to have them in light of their being evil gold stealing corrupt bastards, and the people don’t deserve to have them, because their actions demonstrate that they have to be the stupidest specimens of humanity to walk the planet...

That said, back in the day it was pretty common practice to let issues “slip’ out to employees and friends in exchange for cash value before the issuance. The books balanced, and a few folks got to hold new types before everyone else.


14 posted on 07/06/2011 7:24:46 PM PDT by Axenolith (Government blows, and that which governs least, blows least...)
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe
Also, he did not take us off the gold standard.

By outlawing the possession of gold, Roosevelt did take us off the gold standard domestically for all practical purposes.

Nixon simply closed the Gold exchange window to foreign governments. If he hadn't, Ft. Knox would have been cleaned out by European countries repatriating U.S. Marshall Plan dollars.

15 posted on 07/06/2011 7:25:16 PM PDT by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

The challenge is proving they were legally acquired 80+ years ago. And if they’ve been held that long, how can it be illegal to hold them today?


16 posted on 07/06/2011 7:25:38 PM PDT by tbw2
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To: tbw2

If they were illegally acquired, then the rightful owner can reclaim them. It is the same way that heirs of Holocaust victims can reclaim the paintings and property stolen from them by the Nazis.


17 posted on 07/06/2011 7:28:58 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Islam is the religion of Satan and Mohammed was his minion.)
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To: Axenolith

The 1894-S Barber Dime could be construed to be like this, it wasn’t authorized to be issued from the SF Mint, but the director had the dies on hand and polished them to make 24 specimens for visiting bankers. He gave 3 of them to his daughter, one she spent on ice cream (and this is one of the surviving known specimens). 15 are floating around out there, probably in uncurculated/proof condition, and the last sale of one was for 1.8 million dollars IIRC...


18 posted on 07/06/2011 7:31:39 PM PDT by Axenolith (Government blows, and that which governs least, blows least...)
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To: smokingfrog

I would say so. I interviewed with the Mint and they are very tight on security.


19 posted on 07/06/2011 7:34:21 PM PDT by scrabblehack
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To: khnyny

Wonderful and very apt analogy. Government has indeed become like Hal. :)


20 posted on 07/06/2011 7:42:37 PM PDT by Wolfstar ("If you would win a man to your cause, first convince him that you are his friend." Abraham Lincoln)
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To: Alex Murphy

The coins come from a batch that were struck but melted down after President Franklin D. Roosevelt took the country off the gold standard in 1933

So this means that the coins would not exist if things had gone as planned. So the judge should order the coins to be melted down and the gold to be returned to the US mint. Heck just think...They will still make a profit.


21 posted on 07/06/2011 7:42:46 PM PDT by Revel
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To: Kid Shelleen

So, the government seizes the coins and gains maybe a couple of thousands worth of gold. Or, the heirs sell the coins, make $80 million, and local, state and federal governments rake in millions in taxes. Which will the government do?

It’s a no-brainer.


22 posted on 07/06/2011 8:02:28 PM PDT by Grut
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To: Kid Shelleen

this makes no sense, the person accused of the crime is not able to defend himself, how can the trial be fair?
let the fam keep the coins... good grief...


23 posted on 07/06/2011 8:17:51 PM PDT by reflecting
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To: Kid Shelleen
The coins come from a batch that were struck but melted down after President Franklin D. Roosevelt took the country off the gold standard in 1933

If they were melted down they don't exist.


24 posted on 07/06/2011 8:36:32 PM PDT by Iron Munro (The more effeminate & debauched the people, the more they are fitted for a tyrannical government.)
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To: Axenolith

“The 1894-S Barber Dime could be construed to be like this, it wasn’t authorized to be issued from the SF Mint, but the director had the dies on hand and polished them to make 24 specimens for visiting bankers. “

Theoretically, these could be seized under existing laws concerning coinage, but I doubt if it would be perused. There are a few other “semi-mythical” coins in this state, from what I remember when I enjoyed coins as a hobby.

I suppose that the only way to really force the legal issue would be to try to buy something with it, maybe also using a 1913 Liberty nickel in the purchase!

I’ve visited a mint (the Denver mint), and I think they designed the place so that someone is always watching everything. Otherwise, many “strange oddities” would start to appear in collections!


25 posted on 07/06/2011 8:37:48 PM PDT by The Antiyuppie ("When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day.")
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To: scrabblehack

“I would say so. I interviewed with the Mint and they are very tight on security.”

They weren’t always so...there are many examples of “very strange” 19th century US coinage.


26 posted on 07/06/2011 8:45:11 PM PDT by The Antiyuppie ("When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day.")
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To: Blood of Tyrants

“Sounds like it the government’s case to prove they were stolen....”

Not for 1933 double eagles. No such coin was ever released for general circulation; in essence, ALL existing examples are automatically stolen, and though they are pretty much just an ounce of gold apparently not much different than any other ounce of gold (.9675 tr oz) if that almost-ounce of gold happens to be in the form of a 1933 double eagle, the government has already gone to insane lengths several times to retrieve the very few examples that exist.


27 posted on 07/06/2011 8:48:51 PM PDT by Attention Surplus Disorder (Tired of being seen as idiots, the American people went to the polls in 2008 and removed all doubt.)
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To: Kid Shelleen

Buy $20 Liberty gold dolllars in MS 62 or better condition. 1 oz of gold with less than $200 Premium for scarcity. A good place to have some funds.


28 posted on 07/06/2011 9:16:20 PM PDT by samadams2000 (Someone important make......The Call!)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
"If they were illegally acquired, then the rightful owner can reclaim them. It is the same way that heirs of Holocaust victims can reclaim the paintings and property stolen from them by the Nazis."

They merely need to produce the original receipt and affidavits from the original buyer and seller. If they cannot prove ownership, we must assume everything belongs to the State (or the Nazis).

29 posted on 07/06/2011 11:25:04 PM PDT by UnwashedPeasant (Don't nuke me, bro)
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe

” orchestrate banking “holidays” to get control of deposit boxes”

The bank holidays were intended to halt bank runs, I don’t think it had anything to do with the gold issue. If there were breaches of safe deposit boxes during the bank holidays I’ve never heard of them.

Gold was being revalued in order to expand the money supply. The money supply had fallen by 30% over Hoover’s last three years as credit collapsed, and revaluing gold from $20 to $33 served to increase the monetary base. It didn’t cure the Depression, so all it really managed to do was reduce the personal economic freedom of Americans and increase the future prospects for inflation.


30 posted on 07/06/2011 11:36:17 PM PDT by Pelham (Islam. The original Evil Empire)
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe
“...after President Franklin D. Roosevelt took the country off the gold standard in 1933...”

The Idiot on the Dime.

31 posted on 07/06/2011 11:39:51 PM PDT by cynwoody
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To: smokingfrog

“Sounds like an inside job.”

I believe it was. One of the Mint officials took a number of the 1933 coins out of the bags that were for melting and replaced them with other coins of the same denomination so the bags would weigh out right, then took the 1933s to a coin dealer who kept them for years.


32 posted on 07/06/2011 11:41:02 PM PDT by PLMerite (Shut the Beyotch Down!)
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To: Yo-Yo

Two different gold standards. One is the classical standard, the other the ‘gold exchange standard’ IIRC. Both served to restrain inflation. It’s only after Nixon closed the gold window that the inflation of the 70s really took off. His option was put the economy into recession and reduce the growth of dollars, something JFK and LBJ had also been unwilling to do. The “Triffin Dilemma is what had confronted all three Presidents:

http://www.imf.org/external/np/exr/center/mm/eng/mm_sc_03.htm


33 posted on 07/06/2011 11:44:27 PM PDT by Pelham (Islam. The original Evil Empire)
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To: UnwashedPeasant

It seems that the state has an excellent case as they claim that absolutely no 1933 gold coins were issued by the government.


34 posted on 07/07/2011 11:56:40 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Islam is the religion of Satan and Mohammed was his minion.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

Not if the bring in a jury from Clearwater, Floriduh!
The coins were found in swamp.


35 posted on 07/07/2011 12:06:58 PM PDT by GOYAKLA (Flush Congress in 2010 & 2012)
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To: GOYAKLA

Even if you “find” stolen items, the rightful owner can reclaim them. In many states if you find something worth more than $200 and make no effort to return it to the owner, you are guilty of theft.


36 posted on 07/07/2011 1:37:17 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Islam is the religion of Satan and Mohammed was his minion.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

Politely a Question.
Where were you when we in Floridah were holding the”Casey Anthony Trial”?
Did you need @/S notation?
It was a jab at the JURY(?).
Politely! G


37 posted on 07/07/2011 1:44:16 PM PDT by GOYAKLA (Flush Congress in 2010 & 2012)
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To: FreedomCalls

That’s why if you are going to buy art, you should always check its pedigree. If it was stolen, it can be taken from you with no compensation.


38 posted on 07/07/2011 1:58:14 PM PDT by Stonewall Jackson (Democrats: "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.")
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To: GOYAKLA

What does that have to do with this?


39 posted on 07/07/2011 2:37:07 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Islam is the religion of Satan and Mohammed was his minion.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

If a person had a item that there was dispute as to ownership, it would probably windup in a court somewhere. Do not think courts and especially in Florida would settle as you might think. I was comparing Juries good or bad.


40 posted on 07/07/2011 3:30:14 PM PDT by GOYAKLA (Flush Congress in 2010 & 2012)
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To: GOYAKLA

It may never go to trial. I suspect that someone at the mint stole them or perhaps if they were semi honest, they threw a few pre-1933 double eagles in the pile to replace the ones they took (which is what I would argue). I would also argue that since the government melted down all the 1933 double eagles, they believed that they had no value other than the melt value so what does the government care if they melted 100,000 1933 DEs or 99,990 1933s and 10 1932s?


41 posted on 07/07/2011 4:03:24 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Islam is the religion of Satan and Mohammed was his minion.)
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To: GOYAKLA

P.S. I hope the government loses because if they win, they can also argue that the five 1913 Barber nickles were stolen and they want them back.


42 posted on 07/07/2011 4:05:26 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Islam is the religion of Satan and Mohammed was his minion.)
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To: cynwoody

Interesting fact is what I believe was exempt from FDR’s gold grab were coins for numismatic value, and jewlry. I understand that a lot of people became instant coin collectors in the ‘30’s.


43 posted on 07/07/2011 4:08:33 PM PDT by catfish1957 (Hey algore...You'll have to pry the steering wheel of my 317 HP V8 truck from my cold dead hands)
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To: Kid Shelleen
They could be worth $80 million or more, given that one sold for nearly $7.6 million in 2002.

Simple question.... If all the 1933 $20 gold pieces were stolen from the mint, why wasn't the one sold in 2002 seized also?

44 posted on 07/07/2011 4:11:56 PM PDT by catfish1957 (Hey algore...You'll have to pry the steering wheel of my 317 HP V8 truck from my cold dead hands)
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To: catfish1957

i believe it was seized by the treasury dept as well and they then got permission to sell it on the open market. That is how the price was established.


45 posted on 07/07/2011 7:08:29 PM PDT by Kid Shelleen (Beat your plowshares into swords. Let the weak say I am strong)
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To: catfish1957

i believe it was seized by the treasury dept as well and they then got permission to sell it on the open market. That is how the price was established.


46 posted on 07/07/2011 7:08:44 PM PDT by Kid Shelleen (Beat your plowshares into swords. Let the weak say I am strong)
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To: Kid Shelleen

So the Treasurey sold the coin? What’s next get the Smithsonian to sell the 1849 Double Eagle?


47 posted on 07/07/2011 7:50:32 PM PDT by catfish1957 (Hey algore...You'll have to pry the steering wheel of my 317 HP V8 truck from my cold dead hands)
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To: Yo-Yo

Not really. FDR partially took us off the gold standard. The private possession of gold had nothing to do with the amount of gold that was backing the cash. He outlawed it to strengthen the dollar, which the depression was killing. Typical statist. Stick to your ideology (the government can control the value of the dollar) and destroy anything that disproves that theory (commodities).


48 posted on 07/07/2011 7:55:45 PM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Prepare for survival.)
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To: Pelham

Read non-PC history. The bank holidays were intended to stop bank-runs, but they were also used to confiscate gold.


49 posted on 07/07/2011 7:59:42 PM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Prepare for survival.)
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To: cynwoody

Which still had some value up until 1964, when it was 90% silver. The next year they took the silver out. The dime is currently worth about two cents (www.coinflation.com).


50 posted on 07/07/2011 8:01:52 PM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Prepare for survival.)
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