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The Sneaky Way They Plan on Cutting Social Security Benefits
EPJ ^ | 7-8-2011

Posted on 07/08/2011 4:41:50 AM PDT by blam

The Sneaky Way They Plan on Cutting Social Security Benefits

July 8, 2011

Talk of changing the way the CPI is calculated is now part of on going talks on how to deal with the debt expansion. Reuters explains bluntly what is going on:

President Barack Obama and lawmakers are considering cutting Social Security and increasing revenue by changing the way the government measures inflation.

Four senior congressional aides said lawmakers are discussing using an alternative yardstick to gauge inflation, known as the “chained consumer price index,” to determine annual cost-of-living adjustments for millions of Americans. How much of an impact will the change in the method of calculating CPI have on Social Security?

It could result in cutting Social Security by $112 billion over 10 years, raising taxes by $60 billion and cutting pension and veterans’ disability payments by $24 billion, according to estimates by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office and the Joint Committee on Taxation.

According to Reuters:

Advocates say the change is needed because the government’s current measure of inflation overstates how quickly prices rise. Got that? In May, the annualized core CPI came in at 2.4% and the government debt negotiators think this is too high a number.

Senator Tom Coburn of Oklahoma goes one better, he says:

There hasn’t been any economist anywhere that says we shouldn’t do that, [change the way inflation is measured] Earth to Couburn, start with John Williams at Shadow Stats, if you are looking for some one who thinks the CPI measure has been manipulated downward enough already and read up on the last manipulation of the CPI, which was inspired by President Richard Nixon.

Coburn continues with this outrageous remark:

We need a CPI that truly reflects what’s happening in the economy, not what’s good for the politicians.

Bottom line: D.C. politicians are attempting every way possible to raise revenue and cut expenditures, even if it is on the back of the elderly. They will lie and say things with a straight face, even if a quick trip to the supermarket confirms the absurdity of the statements made by politicians like Coburn.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: budgetcuts; politics; socialsecurity; ss
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1 posted on 07/08/2011 4:41:56 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam
m
2 posted on 07/08/2011 4:43:30 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam

3 posted on 07/08/2011 4:44:27 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam

We’re broke, so it’s gotta be cut. People who haven’t saved on their own were just plain stupid.


4 posted on 07/08/2011 4:46:59 AM PDT by Wolfie
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To: Wolfie

There are far too many “other” areas which can be cut....S.S. is not the Gov.s money it’s the peoples money who paid into it. Let them cut all the fraud and waste first...


5 posted on 07/08/2011 4:51:01 AM PDT by caww
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To: caww

Social Security is a socialist abomination foisted upon us by FDR. The sooner it’s killed off, the better.


6 posted on 07/08/2011 4:54:34 AM PDT by Wolfie
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To: blam

How about cutting Social Security and medicare benefits... FOR ALL THE FRIGGING ILLEGAL ALIENS.

Wake up, republican morons in the House. You’re about to hand the communist retard an election issue on a silver platter.


7 posted on 07/08/2011 4:55:08 AM PDT by snowrip (Liberal? You are a socialist idiot with no rational argument.)
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To: blam

It’s a start, cutting this welfare program. But the cut is so minor as to have minimal impact on our overall impending dollar collapse. We’ll need to essentially freeze benefits while inflation reduces their value by 25% or so...that would get the program’s payouts back in line with it’s income.

But it is a start.


8 posted on 07/08/2011 4:56:16 AM PDT by BobL (PLEASE READ: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2657811/posts)
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To: Wolfie

Agreed but give me all I put into it plus interest. Not a penny more but not a penny less of my contributions


9 posted on 07/08/2011 4:58:08 AM PDT by italianquaker (When will Wallace ask obama if he is a flake?)
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To: Wolfie

Perhaps. But you don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater....and you don’t “rob” the people who have payed into S.S. their whole life. Savings or not aside...they have invested in S.S. and they have a right to expect their fair return.


10 posted on 07/08/2011 5:01:26 AM PDT by caww
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To: Wolfie
We’re broke, so it’s gotta be cut. People who haven’t saved on their own were just plain stupid.

People who saw 6% deducted from their pay for forty years might think they did 'save'. Maybe you're just plain stupid when you ignore the reckless and irresponsible acts of politicians and choose to insult people who contributed to that system all their working years.

11 posted on 07/08/2011 5:02:37 AM PDT by Will88
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To: blam

So now a sirloin steak will equal a half of can of dog food instead of a full can.


12 posted on 07/08/2011 5:03:16 AM PDT by steveab (When was the last time someone tried to sell you a CO2 induced climate control system for your home?)
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To: blam

There’s nothing sneaky about it. It’s well justified and sensible. Do this and for those under 55 change the age at which people retire and ss will be solvent for 70 more years.


13 posted on 07/08/2011 5:05:43 AM PDT by the Real fifi
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To: the Real fifi

Gee : And I thought they haven’t given Social Security recipients a raise for the last two years.


14 posted on 07/08/2011 5:08:03 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: Will88

If people were looking, they would have noticed the deduction was 12%

The employer contribution is a fig leaf covering the truth


15 posted on 07/08/2011 5:09:53 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. N.C. D.E. +12 ....( History is a process, not an event ))
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To: Wolfie

I think SS should be phased out over time staring with the option of investing our own SS payments. But I don’t understand why they always want to stick it to the seniors instead of the perfectly healthy, but terribly lazy, 20-somethings sitting on the couch collecting benefit after benefit. The chick in our local grocery throwing a tantrum because WIC pays for only whole milk and she prefers 2% springs to mind...


16 posted on 07/08/2011 5:10:24 AM PDT by nodumbblonde ("The ladder of success is best climbed by stepping on the rungs of opportunity." - Ayn Rand)
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To: Wolfie

No more retirement. We gotta work til we can’t then starve and die.


17 posted on 07/08/2011 5:11:30 AM PDT by screaminsunshine (Socialism...Easier said than done.)
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To: caww

If there was a “real” social security trust fund it could be invested to keep up with inflation.


18 posted on 07/08/2011 5:13:25 AM PDT by screaminsunshine (Socialism...Easier said than done.)
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To: the Real fifi

As has been posted before: LOOK at Chile!

Chile’s Privatized Social Security System at Thirty - POST SCRIPTS
www.norcalblogs.com/post_scripts/.../chiles-privatized-social.html - Cached1 May 2011 – Workers are free to change from one AFP to another. ... Chile’s SS system was designed by a man who is a fan of capitalism and is now a fellow ... Chile is a republic with a constitution and three branches of government: ...

AND while we are at it, Healthcare:

[PDF] Profile of the Health Service System: Chile
www.who.int/entity/ageing/projects/intra/phase.../alc_intra1_cp_chile.pdfFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
i Political Constitution of the Republic of Chile ... free-choice operation, and the SS have decentralized operations with their network of facilities. ...


19 posted on 07/08/2011 5:15:39 AM PDT by WellyP
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To: italianquaker

“Agreed but give me all I put into it plus interest. Not a penny more but not a penny less of my contributions”

That’s not one of the choices.

You have two choices:

1. Accept less, perhaps even drastically less in Social Security and other government benefits.

2. Get nothing - either through hyperinflation, or through drastic financial duress.

You really don’t have the choice you want.


20 posted on 07/08/2011 5:15:56 AM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: BobL

Agree!


21 posted on 07/08/2011 5:16:26 AM PDT by babble-on
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To: blam

I’ve been saying for years that this would be the case. In fact, I don’t see how any of these massive entitlement programs can ever function in the long run without this sort of approach.


22 posted on 07/08/2011 5:18:32 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: screaminsunshine

No, you just have to work hard, plan well, and save for your retirement. It’s not a complicated concept.


23 posted on 07/08/2011 5:21:33 AM PDT by Wolfie
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To: RFEngineer

Actually WE have no choice


24 posted on 07/08/2011 5:22:22 AM PDT by italianquaker (When will Wallace ask obama if he is a flake?)
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To: blam; All
Socialist Insecurity checks real purchasing power has gone up and up with so called inflation adjustment. Senator Coburn is correct.

Socialist Insecurity has always been a Ponzi scheme.

25 posted on 07/08/2011 5:22:34 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: Venturer
Gee : And I thought they haven’t given Social Security recipients a raise for the last two years.

They haven't because of the way the CPI is calculated (no consideration for the increase in the cost of Food or Fuel) and some (including many R's) are saying the rate of inflation has been OVER estimated?

Glad to see so many of our Freepers such as Wolfie are independently wealthy and will not have to worry about their retirement or, apparently supporting a widowed 90 year old Mother who relies on SS for income (and who because as a single Mom raising 3 children COULD NOT PUT ANY MONEY ASIDE, MORON) as some of us do and who while we/they help out, could not afford to support their family as well as their elderly parent (completely) at the same time

Such compassion!

26 posted on 07/08/2011 5:26:20 AM PDT by Conservative Vermont Vet (l)
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To: Wolfie

Well social security is the best deal for those who pay in the least. The less you “invest” the better the return.


27 posted on 07/08/2011 5:28:45 AM PDT by screaminsunshine (Socialism...Easier said than done.)
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To: italianquaker

“Actually WE have no choice”

This is true, if by “we” you mean “everyone”.


28 posted on 07/08/2011 5:30:39 AM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: bert
If people were looking, they would have noticed the deduction was 12%.

The notion that an employee's pay would have automatically been 6% higher absent the employer's SS contribution is quite a stretch.

More likely the amount of the employer contribution would have simply increased the employer's pre-tax income.

29 posted on 07/08/2011 5:35:46 AM PDT by Will88
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To: caww; Wolfie
they have invested in S.S. and they have a right to expect their fair return.

Your Social Security dollars were frittered away over the decades by politicians.

and you don’t “rob” the people who have payed into S.S. their whole life.

Ever heard the saying "eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"?

Those people who claim they are being "robbed" had decades in which to vote out the bastards (Republicans and Democrats) in power who were frittering away their money.

They didn't.

What you reap you will sow.

The problem now is that those people who claim they are being "robbed" are trying to make their children and grandchildren pay for their sins.

Too bad their children and grandchildren are engulfed in debt and a stagnant, uncompetitive economy.

That's not even counting the children and grandchildren who were aborted over the years.

30 posted on 07/08/2011 5:48:39 AM PDT by rabscuttle385 (Live Free or Die)
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To: caww
There are far too many “other” areas which can be cut....S.S. is not the Gov.s money it’s the peoples money who paid into it. Let them cut all the fraud and waste first...

How about converting the EPA, FCC, and 95% of all fedgov agencies into 7 person advisory councils to congress. Close ALL their buildings, auction them off. Enforcement for LAWS set forth by congress (not rules set forth by agencies) are enforced by federal agents and marshals.

31 posted on 07/08/2011 5:51:28 AM PDT by USCG SimTech (Honored to serve since '71)
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To: blam

Where has this guy been, its been going on for 20 years.


32 posted on 07/08/2011 5:59:11 AM PDT by D Rider
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To: blam

Old people have younger ones to take care of them by and large. Let them work or live with them.

Social security was never meant to be a primary support mechanism for anyone.

We need to return to the time when retirement was not even in the dictionary.


33 posted on 07/08/2011 6:00:43 AM PDT by bestintxas (Somewhere in Kenya, a Village is missing its Idiot.)
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To: italianquaker
"Agreed but give me all I put into it plus interest."

Don't forget, you put in x and your employer(s) put in x also. That's 2x plus interest.

If your employer wasn't mugged by the Government for your x, he could have paid it to you. You were worth it, right?

34 posted on 07/08/2011 6:06:48 AM PDT by eCSMaster (We will fight for America and it starts here in Madison, WI. It starts here. It starts now.)
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To: rabscuttle385
The problem now is that those people who claim they are being "robbed" are trying to make their children and grandchildren pay for their sins.

Sins? What sins might those be?

35 posted on 07/08/2011 6:12:37 AM PDT by Boston Blackie
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To: caww

If you’re close to retirement age, you’ll get your fair share and then some. But math is math and there aren’t enough workers to sustain SS benefits at their current levels and a bad economy with no job creation only makes it worse.

There’s no way to balance the budget, let alone tackle the debt without major reforms in both SS and Medicare - and yes, there will have to be cuts in benefits down the road. People 55 and above need not worry.

Younger people are slowly adjusting to the fact that SS will look very different for them when they reach their 60’s and in fact, may not be there at all. My 30 something children realize this and are making their own plans.

Again, the math doesn’t lie. We need a President who will look us in the eye and tell us the truth about these programs - charts would help. But Obama and Democrats need to demagogue the issue for political gain. They’ll never tell the truth.

Polls show that most people are in denial and truly believe that other areas of government can be cut enough to keep SS and Medicare solvent. The truth is, they can’t. Those two programs are green headed monsters that are sucking the lifeblood out of the budget and our children’s futures.

Do some research and you’ll see. A good place to start is:

http://market-ticker.org/cgi-mt/akcs-www?forum=Market-Ticker


36 posted on 07/08/2011 6:14:09 AM PDT by randita
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To: Boston Blackie
Sins? What sins might those be?

Their failures to manage their own government.

37 posted on 07/08/2011 6:16:12 AM PDT by rabscuttle385 (Live Free or Die)
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To: blam

While reading the first 30 or so comments, I understand why the Social Security debate is so toxic, the issue will NEVER be solved and will implode MUCH sooner than later.

I’m 44 years old, working since I’m 16, I expect not to see a dime of SS and will probably will die at my job(retirement for everyone will in the future, be considered an historic anomaly; IMHO).

Stay healthy my friends because the coming economic storm is going to kill what’s left of Social Security.


38 posted on 07/08/2011 6:19:33 AM PDT by Le Chien Rouge
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To: randita
Younger people are slowly adjusting to the fact that SS will look very different for them...

Randita, as a twenty-something, here's **my** expectation:

1. Social Security won't be there at all.

2. Some beneficiaries will vote for me to pay even higher taxes to pay their benefits.

Does this seem like an appropriate set of expectations?

39 posted on 07/08/2011 6:21:26 AM PDT by rabscuttle385 (Live Free or Die)
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To: blam

I wish they would quit using this blatant LIE. They are not cutting ANYONE”S Social Security Benefits. NOBODY ANYWHERE will recieve LESS than they do now. This will just effect the amount of the annual INCREASE people recieve.

And, I ask this, How many PRIVATE pension plans give yearly ‘Cost of Living’ increases?


40 posted on 07/08/2011 6:26:43 AM PDT by commish (Freedom tastes sweetest to those who have fought to preserve it.)
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To: rabscuttle385
Remarkable statement .... Don't blame my generation for this problem. I had money confiscated from my pay for over 50 years under a plan that was instituted before I was born.

I dislike the situation more than you do because I WAS robbed .... Even if the system was sustainable I would not break even.

I have despised SS since my first paycheck.

41 posted on 07/08/2011 6:37:45 AM PDT by Boston Blackie
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To: randita
People 55 and above need not worry.

I will be 64 in December. I am worried and angry. And I vote.

42 posted on 07/08/2011 6:38:46 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: Will88
"The notion that an employee's pay would have automatically been 6% higher absent the employer's SS contribution is quite a stretch."

Actually, people like me and Mr G, who are self employed, have been picking up the whole amount, so my income would have been 12% higher. And the amount is actually 15.6% now, for SS and medicare. 15.6% times 40 years would be quite a nice nest egg, thankyouverymuch.

43 posted on 07/08/2011 6:49:26 AM PDT by Grammy
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To: Boston Blackie
I had money confiscated from my pay for over 50 years under a plan that was instituted before I was born.

Just because it was instituted before you were born doesn't negate the fact that you had far more chances than members of my generation to neuter and dismantle the program.

I have despised SS since my first paycheck.

Good, we do agree on something.

44 posted on 07/08/2011 6:49:54 AM PDT by rabscuttle385 (Live Free or Die)
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To: Conservative Vermont Vet
They haven't because of the way the CPI is calculated (no consideration for the increase in the cost of Food or Fuel)

No. If anything the inclusion of fuel and food are the cause of the 0% SS COLA in 2010 and 2011. The SS COLA is calculated from the average CPI (I think CPI-W specifically) in July, August and September. In 2008 that was when gasoline, natural gas and food prices were spiking and gasoline hit $4 for the first time. The CPI was very high in those three months compared to 2007 so the COLA in January 2009 was 5.8%. Soon after the summer of 2008 those prices dropped (with gas hitting $1.419 on Christmas day 2008 where I lived). The third quarter CPI dropped from 2008 to 2009 so the COLA was 0% (it would have been negative except they don't allow that). Then by 2010 the CPI had raised some, but it wasn't back up to 2008 levels. So once again no COLA. Right now the CPI-W is about 3% above the 2008 levels and going up fast.

If SS had used the fourth quarter rather than third quarter CPI then the COLA would have been about 1.5% each for 2009, 2010 and 2011 because the mid-2008 spike would have been missed.

45 posted on 07/08/2011 6:52:16 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! Tea Party extremism is a badge of honor.)
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To: rabscuttle385

Well said. The fact is, we wanted those things they funded by stealing from social security, and let it go on for decades.


46 posted on 07/08/2011 6:54:57 AM PDT by Wolfie
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To: snowrip

How about cutting Social Security and medicare benefits... FOR ALL THE FRIGGING ILLEGAL ALIENS.


And then for the 60-somethings who are perfectly capable of working, and can still look forward to an extended retirement. And for those who have saved enough that the payment is a pittance anyway (repay them with an accumulated estate tax credit).

This cutting can be decided after adopting a plan that ensures annual solvency by floating the retirement age. The impatient 60-somethings can lobby against the illegals, cheats, and wealthy retirees to see how many extra months of retirement they can win in Congress.

But SS must not drag down our nation with added borrowing, as it is doing now.


47 posted on 07/08/2011 7:02:18 AM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Government borrowing is Taxation without Representation)
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To: caww; Le Chien Rouge; Wolfie; italianquaker; Will88; bert; screaminsunshine; nodumbblonde; ...

Here we go again.

There is no real “trust fund”;there never was a trust fund, nor was a trust fund ever intended; the “lockbox” never had a lock, nor was it meant to have a lock. Consequently, we never have, and are not, “paying into” anything, and we certainly aren’t making “contributions” (who could possibly repeat that with a straight face?).

All of this language has been used by the successors of FDR as rhetorical camouflage for programs that are intergenerational theft. They are immoral and unconstitutional, but we can no more expect to get our tax money back that has been squandered on SS, etc. than we can expect to get our money back that has been squandered in other immoral and unconstitutional programs.

I’ve probably paid withholding for as long or nearly as long as anyone here. The hard truth is that it is money down a rathole just like virtually everything else we pay in taxes. The “old age programs”, which have always been ponzi schemes, have always been heading for the cliff. People have been pointing that out since FDR’s day. The trouble is that people just didn’t want to listen.

Now the game of musical chairs is coming top an end, and we (older conservatives) are probably going to be among those left standing. The best thing to do is to stop stealing from the young. The fact that we were stolen from doesn’t justify our doing the same thing.

Most people who have been receiving SS, etc. for any length of time have received vastly more than they ever paid in withholding taxes because of demographics (that is part of the ponzi scheme element of the programs). That isn’t true for those approaching “retirement” age now.

From watching people on these threads, it is apparent that FDR succeeded in creating a raging sense of entitlement, even among some conservatives. He and his cronies knew that most people like getting government checks. This is why these programs have never been seriously challenged even though they are transparent frauds.

There is no point in endless postings about “solutions” that will keep these programs as they are. We can’t defy economic reality. Moreover, although we have been robbed by prior generations, we need to admit that these “programs” are stealing from our children and grandchildren.


48 posted on 07/08/2011 7:02:58 AM PDT by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: rabscuttle385

Well now its your generation’s turn to dismantle the system. How are you doing with that?


49 posted on 07/08/2011 7:05:30 AM PDT by Starstruck (Independence is the opposite of dependence)
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To: RFEngineer

You have two choices:

1. Accept less, perhaps even drastically less in Social Security and other government benefits.

2. Get nothing - either through hyperinflation, or through drastic financial duress.


I’m waiting for a political leader to explain this.

It’s basically the golden goose theory. The beneficiaries are strangling the golden goose. Also known as the “tragedy of the commons” or “overfishing.”


50 posted on 07/08/2011 7:07:12 AM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Government borrowing is Taxation without Representation)
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