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Soldiers told not to shoot Taliban bomb layers
Daily Telegraph (UK) ^ | 7/8/2011 | Andy Bloxham

Posted on 07/08/2011 7:01:17 PM PDT by 1066AD

They are instead being ordered to just observe insurgents and record their position to reduce the risk of civilian casualties.

The controversial policy emerged at an inquest into the death of Sgt Peter Rayner, 34, a soldier from the 2nd Batallion The Duke of Lancaster's Regiment who was killed in October last year by an improvised explosive device as he led a patrol in Helmand Province, Afghanistan.

Wendy Rayner, 40, disclosed that in the days leading up to his death her husband been told that it was not his job to attack insurgents laying bombs.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events; United Kingdom; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: afghanistan; nato; obama; roe; waronterror
More PC cr*p that gets the guys killed.

I think it's time to bring 'em all home, Afghanistan, Iraq, Europe, Asia. If they need something to do let's build bases on the Mexican border.

1 posted on 07/08/2011 7:01:25 PM PDT by 1066AD
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To: 1066AD

Maybe they should just shoot bean bags like Brian Terry had to do on the Mexican border.


2 posted on 07/08/2011 7:04:12 PM PDT by RummyChick
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To: 1066AD

They should observe—their bullet going into a Taliban’s head, repeat.


3 posted on 07/08/2011 7:05:24 PM PDT by Excuse_My_Bellicosity (Liberalism is a social disease.)
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To: 1066AD
“The Americans are different – their Rules of Engagement are pretty liberal. If they even suspect someone of laying a bomb, they can shoot them.”

Apparently this is only a Brit thing.

4 posted on 07/08/2011 7:05:44 PM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner (Sarah Palin has crossed the Rubicon!)
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To: 1066AD

“I think it’s time to bring ‘em all home, Afghanistan, Iraq, Europe, Asia.”

Sixty six years now. Yes it is.


5 posted on 07/08/2011 7:09:54 PM PDT by Psalm 144 (We are not governed. We are occupied.)
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To: Psalm 144

Any war that goes on for a decade is too long unless you’re fighting it on your own soil.


6 posted on 07/08/2011 7:11:49 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

If they even suspect someone of laying a bomb, they can shoot them.”


This cuts down on creeps applying for bomb-laying jobs. It works.


7 posted on 07/08/2011 7:13:06 PM PDT by txhurl (Did you want to talk or fish?)
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To: 1066AD; Lancey Howard

RoE that’s been in place for some time now.


8 posted on 07/08/2011 7:13:08 PM PDT by Gene Eric (*** Jesus ***)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner
Apparently this is only a Brit thing.

Sadly, I can't figure that out either.

The UK just decorated their first female sniper for neutralizing so many IED planters. The patrols would use the bodies to locate the device safely.

I guess she's out of a job.

9 posted on 07/08/2011 7:16:35 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Holy flippin' crap, Sarah rocks the world!)
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To: cripplecreek

I’m with you. This is not un-winnable. Winning is un-willed.

I suspect it is like Rusty Humphries was saying last night, the wars go on because there is too much money being made and too much being fed back to the coffers of politicians on both sides.

Bring ‘em home and lets get rid of the politicians.


10 posted on 07/08/2011 7:18:03 PM PDT by Sequoyah101 (Half the people are below average.)
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To: cripplecreek

When you engage in actual fighting, if victory is long in coming, then men’s weapons will grow dull and their ardor will be dampened. If you lay siege to a town, you will exhaust your strength. Again, if the campaign is protracted, the resources of the State will not be equal to the strain. Now, when your weapons are dulled, your ardor dampened, your strength exhausted and your treasure spent, other chieftains will spring up to take advantage of your extremity. Then no man, however wise, will be able to avert the consequences that must ensue. In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War


11 posted on 07/08/2011 7:20:53 PM PDT by Psalm 144 (We are not governed. We are occupied.)
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To: 1066AD
"What are we supposed to use, Harsh Language?"

-Space Marine being told to take the ammo out of his gun.
Aliens
12 posted on 07/08/2011 7:21:19 PM PDT by Tzimisce (Never forget that the American Revolution began when the British tried to disarm the colonists.)
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To: 1066AD

The ROE’s over there are insane


13 posted on 07/08/2011 7:29:52 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
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To: 1066AD; Navy Patriot; Virginia Ridgerunner

But it’s not really a new Brit thing:

It really ain’t the place nor time to reel off rhyming diction,
but yet we’ll write a final rhyme while waiting crucifixion.
For we bequeath a parting tip of sound advice for such men
who come in transport ships to polish off the Dutchman.

If you encounter any Boers, you really must not loot ‘em,
and if you wish to leave these shores, for pity’s sake, don’t shoot ‘em.
Let’s toss a bumper down our throat before we pass to Heaven,
and toast a trim-set petticoat we leave behind in Devon.

Harry (Breaker) Morant


14 posted on 07/08/2011 7:32:08 PM PDT by tlb
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To: 1066AD
"I think it's time to bring 'em all home, Afghanistan, Iraq, Europe, Asia. If they need something to do let's build bases on the Mexican border."

NO .. we need to go in ... bomb the shit out of all those friggin' places and let the un and the bilderburgers and anyone else come and try to get a piece of us.

I am SO pissed off about this shit.

Let's just kill the bastards, throw ozero out and be a proud nation again.

15 posted on 07/08/2011 7:36:44 PM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: 1066AD

I have a friend that watched infrared videos a year ago in Afghanistan while a group of Taliban planted two IED in roads far away from towns with no chance of civilian casualties. The battalion commander denied air and drone strikes to take them out. This, as ridiculous and absurd as it is, is not new. Might as well get the the troops out; they are not letting them kill bad guys. That is not how you fight a war.


16 posted on 07/08/2011 7:36:50 PM PDT by RatRipper (I'll ride a turtle to work every day before I buy anything from Government Motors.)
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To: 1066AD
Butchered to Make a Dutchman's Holiday (1902)

In prison cell I sadly sit,
A dammed crestfallen chappie,
And own to you I feel a bit–
A little bit—unhappy.

It really ain’t the place nor time
To reel off rhyming diction ;
But yet we’ll write a final rhyme
While waiting crucifixion.

No matter what end they decide
Quick-lime? or boiling oil? sir
We’ll do our best when crucified
To finish off in style, sir !

But we bequeath a parting tip
For sound advice of such men
Who come across in transport ship
To polish off the Dutchmen.

If you encounter any Boers
You really must not loot ‘em,
And, if you wish to leave these shores,
For pity’s sake, don’t shoot ‘em.

And if you’d earn a D.S.O.,
Why every British sinner
Should know the proper way to go
Is: Ask the Boer to dinner.

Let’s toss a bumper down our throat
Before we pass to heaven,
And toast: “The trim-set petticoat
We leave behind in Devon.”


17 posted on 07/08/2011 7:41:36 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (Monarchy is the one system of government where power is exercised for the good of all - Aristotle)
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To: 1066AD

It takes real effort to listen to politicians assign these rules to our soldiers, then complain about casualties and how long the war is taking...and not lay some serious hurt on them.


18 posted on 07/08/2011 7:42:42 PM PDT by RWB Patriot ("My ability is a value that must be purchased and I don't recognize anyone's need as a claim on me.")
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To: 1066AD
Yes Afghanistan is Vietnam.

Why do we sent our brave men and women into harms way without the intention of winning?

19 posted on 07/08/2011 7:43:38 PM PDT by Drill Thrawl (No one is more against progress than a progressive.)
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To: Drill Thrawl

Why do we sent our brave men and women into harms way without the intention of winning?


Insanity.

BTW: Your tag line is right on.


20 posted on 07/08/2011 7:47:07 PM PDT by unkus (Silence = Consent)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

The Brits have gone “wobbly.”


21 posted on 07/08/2011 7:48:20 PM PDT by verity (The Obama Administration is a Criminal Enterprise.)
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To: tlb
Good point. When I learned about Morant’s history and the landing at Gallipoli, I learned that the troops always pay for staff bureaucratic stupidity.
22 posted on 07/08/2011 7:48:42 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Holy flippin' crap, Sarah rocks the world!)
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To: knarf

Unfortunately our commander in chief appears to be Zapp Brannigan.

“Now, like all great plans, my strategy is so simple an idiot could have devised it. On my command all ships will line up and file directly into the alien death cannons, clogging them with wreckage.”


23 posted on 07/08/2011 7:50:36 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: 1066AD

Oh great......awesome to see that our lame ass ROE are still in effect. =.=


24 posted on 07/08/2011 7:52:25 PM PDT by cranked
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To: Gene Eric

The people laying the IEDs are usually nobodies who are paid to do it, or farmers who are threatened into doing it, or Taliban nobodies at the bottom of the food chain. In any event, they are never important people. The theory is that it’s preferrable to snatch these guys up and get intel to find a way up the food chain. That’s grunt stuff for the US forces.

If these guys are observed by Marine snipers, however, they’re dead, period.

I don’t know what the Brits do, but you would think all the allied forces would be on the same page.


25 posted on 07/08/2011 8:04:52 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: 1066AD

you call this a war? Get us out of afghanistan, iraq, germany and japan, bring our soldiers home to guard our borders to the north and south.


26 posted on 07/08/2011 8:17:50 PM PDT by Coleus (Adult Stem Cells Work, there is NO Need to Harvest Babies for Their Body Parts!)
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To: 1066AD

Yes, bring ‘em all home.


27 posted on 07/08/2011 8:19:24 PM PDT by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Ron_Paul_2008.htm)
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To: 1066AD

Agree....


28 posted on 07/08/2011 8:20:07 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: 1066AD

Two words.
Green
Glass


29 posted on 07/08/2011 8:21:46 PM PDT by MestaMachine (Guns don't kill people, the obama administration does. (Gunwalker Ping List))
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

Another reason the Brits lost the colonies. We didn’t fight fair. We fought to win, and did.

You would have thought that after 225+ years, the Brits would learn how to fight to win.


30 posted on 07/08/2011 8:22:18 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: Lancey Howard

Thanks, LH.


31 posted on 07/08/2011 8:34:24 PM PDT by Gene Eric (*** Jesus ***)
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To: Drill Thrawl
Why do we sent our brave men and women into harms way without the intention of winning?

Because a high bodycount without winning the war helps Democrat/RINO politics move forward.

You didn't think it was an accident, did you?

32 posted on 07/08/2011 10:05:06 PM PDT by Talisker (History will show the Illuminati won the ultimate Darwin Award.)
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To: 1066AD
"The existing policy of “courageous restraint” was led by the US General Stanley McChrystal 18 months ago and has been repeatedly criticized for leaving soldiers fighting “with one hand behind their backs”. "

A lot of people on here are quick to sing the praises of Gen. Stanley McC....I am not one of them.

33 posted on 07/08/2011 10:11:10 PM PDT by Tainan (Cogito Ergo Conservitus.)
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To: 1066AD
Wendy Rayner, 40, disclosed that in the days leading up to his death her husband been told that it was not his job to attack insurgents laying bombs

[Insert callous remark about keeping a stiff upper lip, and whether any was found, HERE]...

34 posted on 07/09/2011 3:39:27 AM PDT by FDNYRHEROES (It's 3 AM. Let me sleep on it. I'll get back to you in 16 hours.)
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To: 1066AD

Whoever is responsible for this b.s. should be used to detect land mines.


35 posted on 07/09/2011 3:49:58 AM PDT by Joe Boucher ((FUBO))
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To: 1066AD

I’m reading the posts at the Telegraph and blood pressure went up another notch.

“bromhead:

There is no doubt the rules of engagement are strict within the British Army. I remember being told we were allowed to shoot someone in the act of throwing a grenade at us, but not so once it has been thrown.”

Even the rules for sports aren’t this brainless.


36 posted on 07/09/2011 5:17:17 AM PDT by huldah1776
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To: RatRipper

This is a Specials Ops war...the IED planters may? have been under observation longer than the troops know...the commander in the air may need them alive to lead SF to the nest...one good possibility...weak I know, but possible!


37 posted on 07/09/2011 5:36:11 AM PDT by Turborules (`I am Proud to vote for Palin, anytime anywhere!)
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To: Sequoyah101

there is the lessons of the American west. We drive the natives out, or to disarmed and supervised reservations, and release the Conestoga wagons, settling the place via an offer of freedom, low taxes, and honest self government. With low taxes and honest self government come high birth rates.


38 posted on 07/09/2011 7:23:51 AM PDT by donmeaker (I)
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper

You would have thought that after 225+ years, the Brits would learn how to fight to win.............................................. Since the turn of the 20th Century they learned, its simple, bring in the Americans.


39 posted on 07/09/2011 8:01:22 AM PDT by Bringbackthedraft (ea. a month)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

You know things are bad when American rules of engagement are liberal.


40 posted on 07/09/2011 8:21:33 AM PDT by Excuse_My_Bellicosity (Liberalism is a social disease.)
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To: Bringbackthedraft

Yawn.

Usual ‘we saved your ass’ crap. Try learning real hsitory.


41 posted on 07/09/2011 1:54:10 PM PDT by the scotsman (I)
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To: Tainan

Thank you.

Too many posts on FR where Britain is concerned can turn into bashing the ‘dhimmi’ Limeys where facts are ignored.


42 posted on 07/09/2011 1:56:55 PM PDT by the scotsman (I)
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To: the scotsman
The facts are that this is a co-operative effort between several countries. For anyone to assert the belief that the Brits are not pulling their weight in this effort is absurd.
The links from the referenced article also go to a story about the two Brit snipers, "Osmond & Potter" (chuckle) and their scores in taking out bad guys. They are the team who scored the "Quigley", 2 kills with 1 shot.
The ridiculous ROEs were put in place by micro-managing politicians. Can't blame the troops on the line for that fiasco. No way to run a war...as history has shown.

As I said, these were implemented by Gen. McCrystal(sp?)...his orders came down from on high and he clicked his heels and signed-off on them. He has since been suitable rewarded for his obedience to the system....perfumed prince is the phrase that comes to mind.
43 posted on 07/09/2011 7:43:37 PM PDT by Tainan (Cogito Ergo Conservitus.)
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