Skip to comments.“Carbon Sunday” – The madness in Australia over the Carbon Tax
Posted on 07/10/2011 11:05:51 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
July 10, 2011
They are calling it Carbon Sunday.
This is a collection of links and excerpts regarding PM Julia Gillards speech announcing the tax. In a nutshell, from what I can see, the majority of Australians are pissed, and shes toast, partly because she lied about it before taking office, partly due to the fact it is being implemented as a deficit from the get-go. Oh and then theres the fact that it wont make a bit of difference to the temperature, and will be nullified by China.
Apparently, the way it is structured, it looks Almost bordering on a bribe (-Andrew Bolt, see his interview with Lindzen below) .
You can download the new climate policy here (PDF).
Carbon tax backlash in national plebiscite hosted by News Ltd websites | Courier Mail
ANGRY Australians have vowed to vote Prime Minister Julia Gillard from office at the next election after the controversial carbon tax announcement.
Scores of voters rejected the plan soon after details of the $24.5 billion package to tackle climate change were revealed, with more than 80 per cent who voted in a national online poll saying Australia shouldnt have a carbon tax.
Theyre calling it Carbon Sunday but I like to refer to today as Suicide Sunday for a PM and three independents, one reader wrote.
Just eight per cent of voters said they were confident it wouldnt affect their hip pocket.
An anti-carbon tax group said its website crashed after being overwhelmed with people trying to sign up to a campaign rejecting the tax.
The organisers of the site, no-carbon-tax.org, said the site crashed because of the sheer numbers of people signing up.
In the Queensland polls hosted by couriermail.com.au, about 7000 readers voted on four questions, with about 90 per cent believing we should not have a carbon tax, over 60 per cent saying climate change was a myth, and 75 per cent saying they were now more likely to vote for the Coalition.
From Andrew Bolt | Herald Sun
My editorial on the carbon tax fraud. I then interview Professor Richard Lindzen, who says Gillards tax wouldnt work, even if man really was warming the globe. Which he doubts.
Vent here while venting is still legal.
The Climate Change Committee deal here.
Some initial, quick thoughts:
- $4.3 billion over four years is going to be spent above what the tax raises to buy off the public with tax cuts and handouts. Thats one wild way to sell a tax, spending more than it raises.
- the compensation must soon run out if the Government doesnt want to broke. The deal says that after three years, companies can buy offsets overseas for up to half their emissions. This means that costs here will rise, but the revenue to compensate for these rises is sent overseas.
- The Government claims this package will reduce emissions by 160 millions tonnes by 2020. But the immediate tax and spending levels cannot do that. This target can be achieved only with a dramatic raising of the tax. No figure is given for how much of our emissions will be cut by the tax as it.
- The Government refuses to nominate employment effects on the specific industries involved.
- No figure is given for what effect this will have on the worlds temperature.
- Julia Gillard cites in her support Margaret Thatcher, who indeed did warn in 1988 that we should worry about global warming. What Gillard fails to add was that by 2002, Thatcher had developed second thoughts about the alarmists, writing that global warming provides a marvelous excuse for worldwide, supra-national socialism.
- The Government is spending $2.7 billion extra over the next financial year alone before the tax even gets imposed to buy support throught tax cuts and handouts.
- Its a magic tax:
Cost increases: <a title=Households to see average cost increases of $9.90 a week. However, they will also receive assistance of $10.10 a week on average.Households to see average cost increases of $9.90 a week. However, they will also receive assistance of $10.10 a week on average.
- Gillard announces also shell buy out a 2000 Megawatt power station over the next decade at a price not revealed. Thats billions to actually reduce our power supplies, not increase them.
Australian Climate Madness Blog:
Just to put all this nonsense in perspective, the policy is due to reduce Australias emissions by 160 million tonnes of CO2 by 2020. Sounds impressive right? Well, Chinas emissions rose in just one year by 750 million tonnes, nearly five times Australias planned reduction by 2020 in just one year. Climate Madness.
Gillards tax on carbon pollution: the facts « JoNova: Science, carbon, climate and tax
Forestalling all of the 0.24 C° global warming predicted by 2020 would demand almost $60,000 from every man, woman and child on the planet.
According to a recent Newspoll, just 30 per cent of people support the tax.
The presumption in the Newspoll that the majority of Australians dont want action on climate change will change, Senator Brown told reporters in Brisbane yesterday.
Ms Gillard warned the government would not be cowed by opposition to the tax and accused the Coalition of lies and distortion and attacks on our economists and scientists.
After all that, I simply say to our opponents: is that the best you can do, she said.
Because if you think thats enough to knock us off course, youve got another think coming.
[Piers Akerman] The carbon dioxide tax has nothing to do with the environment and everything to do with raising an extra $11 billion in revenue.
The tax is not a reform, it is economic suicide.
READ the full text of Prime Minister Julia Gillards address to the nation following the carbon tax plan:
I WANT to talk to you tonight about why the Government is putting a price on carbon and what this means for you.
The decisions I announced today mean:
AROUND five hundred big polluters will pay for every tonne of carbon pollution they put into our atmosphere.
BY 2020 this will cut carbon pollution by 160 million tonnes a year.
AND because some businesses will put prices up, there will be tax cuts, increased pensions and increased family payments.
We have had a long debate about climate change in this country.
Most Australians now agree our climate is changing, this is caused by carbon pollution, this has harmful effects on our environment and on the economy and the Government should act.
Economists and experts agree that the best way is to make polluters pay by putting a price on carbon.
The first Australian Government to announce a plan for a carbon price was John Howards back in 2007.
A lot has happened since then; the debate has been difficult and divisive.
And no government no political party or leader can claim to have got everything right during this time.
But we have now had the debate, 2011 is the year we decide that as a nation we want a clean energy future.
Now is the time to move from words to deeds.
Thats why I announced today how Australias carbon price will work.
From 1 July next year, big polluters will pay $23 for every tonne of carbon they put into our atmosphere.
They now know how much they will pay unless they cut their pollution.
And they can start planning to cut pollution now.
By 2020 our carbon price will take 160 million tonnes of pollution out of the atmosphere every year.
Thats the equivalent of taking forty five million cars off the road.
Some of the cost paid by big polluters will be passed through to the prices of the goods you buy.
The price impact will be modest but I know family budgets are always tight.
So I have decided most of the money raised from the carbon price will be used to fund tax cuts, pension increases and higher family payments.
These will be permanent, matching the carbon price over time.
Not everyone will be financially better off there is no money tree. The budget has to add up. But I want people who need help most to get the help they need.
Thats why 9 in 10 households will get a combination of tax cuts and payment increases.
For almost six million households this will fully meet your average extra costs.
And of these, four million Australian households including every older Australian who relies solely on the pension will get a buffer for your budget, with the extra payments being 20 per cent higher than your average extra costs.
When you have some time, you should have a look at the cleanenergyfuture.gov.au website.
Itll help you find out what youre entitled to.
And it will link you to ideas for how to cut power bills and cut pollution without cutting back on lifes essentials.
I also understand that there is nothing more important to families than having a job.
So I have decided we will take special measures to support jobs and keep Australia competitive internationally. And some of the money paid by polluters will also fund billions of dollars of investments in clean technologies like solar, wind and geothermal.
All up, the carbon price will support $100 billion worth of investment in renewables in the next forty years.
Putting a price on carbon is a big change for our country.
I know we can do it together.
Our economy is the envy of the world.
We have world-leading renewable technology, a coal industry determined to cut pollution among the worlds richest reserves of natural gas.
And we are a confident, creative people.
I see a great clean energy future for our great country.
I know we can get there together.
Now look at the polling from the Herald Sun:
You can weigh in here
Finally, keep your eye on the prize.
h/t to Tom Nelson for collecting many of these
UPDATE: Dr. Roger Pielke Jr. points out the absurdity of a basic claim.
Australia has released its much awaited carbon tax proposal (here in PDF). I am just now browsing through it. This analogy in the document strikes me as particularly unfortunate:
The Government has committed to reduce carbon pollution by 5 per cent from 2000 levels by 2020 irrespective of what other countries do, and by up to 15 or 25 per cent depending on the scale of global action.
Meeting the 5 per cent target will require abatement of at least 159 Mt CO2-e, or 23 per cent, in 2020 (Figure 2.4).1 This is equivalent to taking over 45 million cars off the road by 2020.
Why do I say an unfortunate analogy?
Well, Australia has only about 12 million cars (and 16 million total vehicles), so using a reduction of 45 million cars off the road to illustrate the unilateral emissions reduction goal simply illustrates the impossibility of the task.
This new policy was of such national importance that Gillard had to pre-empt regular TV programming on Sunday to announce it .and they couldnt even get the basic math right.
I heard this on BBC Australia this morning.
They are pissed!
Just what is with these carbon theft morons??????? Stop stealing from people, you freaks!
Oh, I guarantee they are all lined up to profit personally from the regulations.
Gravy sucking pigs!
Never underestimate the leftists. They don’t think they are committing political suicide. They believe they can win and not be voted out in the next election IMO. They may employ lies, deceit, bribes, fraud, or whatever; but they think they can impose their will and not suffer the consequences.
This is exactly what it is—theft. Carbon exchanges that will be set up will benefit the same bunch of crooks who populate the world’s elites but will screw the middle class big time.
More’s the pity.
They didn’t make a whimper when their guns were rounded up Down Under.
I don’t expect anything from this either.
what a freaking disaster
LOL .. Let the people speak and shout! Loud and clear!
On my wish list of places I’d like to visit. may have to do it in an urn at this rate.
Would they tax us even unto death,, all for the air we breathe? crazy.
Prime Minister Julia Gillard has announced the detail of the government's carbon tax. The commentariat has been quick to respond:
"Julia Gillard has gambled on a massive compensation package of tax cuts and benefits rises for most people to cover scepticism about a carbon tax and fears of job losses and rising costs.
In what could easily have been converted into a tax reform agenda the Prime Minister has gone as far as possible to spread the revenue from tax to households and away from business.
Business, particularly coal mining and electricity generation, carry the vast burden of the tax through direct costs and fuel imposts.
In a package that dwells far more on compensation than abating greenhouse gas emissions, Labor is trying to bury fears about price rises and reassuring voters that the "average" costs to the "average" voter will be over compensated.
But the question will be whether householders believe that the initial up front payments, which avoid a heavy cost in the crucial year of returning to Budget surplus, will actually offset the price rises in power and food that roll through from the tax and fuel imposts."
Denis Shanahan - The Australian
"This is a better package than the CPRS it is so closely modelled on, but not by a lot.
The key problem with the CPRS was that compensation for emissions intensive industries was so great and went for so long that it neutered the price signal, meaning the entire scheme was a giant money circulator that wouldnt have started decarbonising the economy until well into the 2020s.
The same levels of assistance will apply to big polluters again, but this time the Productivity Commission will be on the case to review whether the assistance is justified and theres an in-built bias toward reduction in assistance to the levels proposed by Ross Garnaut in his updated report if the PC agrees. But big polluters have a guarantee that their assistance wont be cut until at least 2018, although the PC can start its 2014-15 review early if it believes there are industries making windfall gains from compensation. Which, of course, they will be.
There will also be an independent body to examine the case for accelerating Australias laughably unambitious target of 5% by 2020. The Climate Change Authority could become a potent independent source of advice that will pressure future governments inclined to recalcitrance in the key issue of how quickly we proceed with decarbonising the economy."
Bernard Keane - Crikey
"Looks to me like a better package than version knocked back under Rudd. Goes long way to answering concerns. But will people believe Gillard?"
Laurie Oakes - Twitter
"It is what it was always supposed to be a gradual start to what will in the end be a major economic change.
In many ways it is initially more cautious than Kevin Rudd's carbon pollution reduction scheme, although the Greens have won concessions that keep the door open for faster change if global action steps up in the future.
But it is by necessity complex. And there are some losers. Explaining all the giving and taking that means most families will be ok is going to be very hard. Explaining the long tern benefits even more difficult.
But for Tony Abbott, finding someone, somewhere who feels worst off will be a cinch. Which means the overall modesty of this package could still get lost in the telling."
Lenore Taylor - The Sydney Morning Herald
"With all these exclusions and these giveaways, this carbon dioxide tax increasingly seems to be a mere revenue raiser for a government out to redistribute wealth."
Andrew Bolt - Herald Sun
"The carbon tax announcement is way more generous than I expected... Almost bordering on a bribe."
David Koch - Twitter
Its a Greens victory!
Tim Blair - Daily Telegraph
"They have obviously seen it as an opportunity to pursue a social justice agenda on taxation, as well as an opportunity for carbon pricing. Thats a way to negate some of the attacks on the cost of living impacts. I think thats a smart move, to tie it to an overhaul of the tax system.
I would have liked to have seen a faster escalation in the price over the first few years. I think $23 a tonne is very much a softly, softly approach and isnt going to drive a lot of new investment in clean energy. Only going up 2.5% a year is barely going to keep track with the cost of living changes and CPI."
Dr Chris Riedy, Director of Institute for Sustainable Futures at University of Technology, Sydney - The Conversation
"Julia Gillard refuses to give number of people who will be worse off under her carbon tax."
Kelly O'Dwyer Lib MP - Twitter
"The assistance will go a long way to calm concerns on the Labor backbench, especially from those in mining and manufacturing seats where Abbott has been campaigning the hardest.
While independent Tony Windsor is set to pass the laws, he disagreed with heavy transport moving to a new tax regime in 2014.
What is not known is just how the plan will shift public opinion.
Gillard has given herself a good shot at swaying voters, but Abbott is likely to seize on some of the guess work in the plan to show Labor remains a risk to jobs and hip-pockets."
Paul Osborne - Herald Sun
"Its broadly consistent philosophically with what I have been arguing for 20 years. I support the principles involved but there are some problems in detail.
The big question you have to hold up to assess this program is: is there any way of knowing now what firms might expect the carbon price to be in 2020 or 2030? The answer is no, theres nothing that drives a futures price yet.
That is a real problem because that is where the technological innovation will come from. [Companies] have to have some way of knowing what price will be expected at any point in time. Tying down the long term expectations hasnt been done. That could still happen once they put in place the carbon trading market but they have to do that in a particular way.
Warwick McKibbon, ANU - The Conversation
I will make sure i burn an extra tire just for her.
giving more money to the government does not make the environment better. lol
Carbon Zombies are relentless and damn near impossible to destroy.
And further subjugating private business to the whim of government.
Poltical Commentator Laurie Oakes:
‘People just don’t trust Julia Gillard’
I find it hard to understand why so many Americans believe that nonsense.
There are over a million legally held firearms in private hands in Australia. The exact number is not entirely clear.
Just about any law abiding citizen can own firearms if they choose to.
I own a semi-automatic military grade rifle. I own a couple of handguns. I also own a number of .22 rifles. I do this entirely legally under Australian law. I have never handed any of my firearms over to the government. I've never had to.
Australia does have some bloody stupid gun laws, and some restrictions - like universal registration and universal licencing, limits on magazine sizes, etc, etc - that I would rather we didn't have. But we didn't make a whimper when our guns were rounded up because our guns were never rounded up.
In terms of this carbon tax, I don't know what we can do about it really. The Labor/Green/Independent alliance have the numbers in both Houses of Parliament to get it through. If Labor hadn't promised they'd never introduce a carbon tax, they wouldn't have been elected, but they did make that promise and enough people believed them that they managed to get elected, and now they are, without compunction breaking that promise.
If an election were held today, they'd be out of office. Unfortunately, unless something changes, there won't be an election until 2013.
Labor lied. The Prime Minister lied. But they have the numbers.
I've got a lot more respect for the Greens than I do for Labor at the moment. They at least went to the polls saying this is what they wanted to do.
Labor are lying scum, backed up by Independents who have been bribed into supporting them, and the Greens who were at least honest about what they wanted.
88% of Australians voted for candidates who opposed a Carbon Tax at the last election - but we've got them because that remaining 12% were enough to get 1 Green elected in a hung Parliament. That's the bottom line.
Lets see the Liberals show some backbone. They should denounce the regime as illegitimate, call for new elections, and walk out of Parliament.
Thanks for setting the record (and yours truly) straight on guns in Australia.
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